IRC log of #zope3-dev for Saturday, 2008-06-14

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ARiKA-2Making a content type for Zope 3...12:41
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ARiKA-208:53 -!- mcdonc [] has quit [Remote closed the connection]12:41
ARiKA-2that's not what I want to paste...12:41
ARiKA-2this one12:41
ARiKA-2    AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute '__module__'12:41
ARiKA-2(the class has been created with the pyskel script)12:41
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afd_ARiKA-2: I see several choices: 1. paste the code to a pastebin so that we can review it 2. Write those classes and package structure yourself 3. Use grok12:58
ARiKA-2package the structure?12:59
ARiKA-2I'm reading about it now... wait12:59
afd_there's probably something wrong with the generated package... I'm willing to look at the problem, but you have to help me at that13:00
ARiKA-2what do I pastebin?13:00
afd_I don't use ZopeSkel, so there may be something obvious that others can help you...13:00
afd_read channel topic13:00
ARiKA-2yes yes13:00
ARiKA-2but what do I need to paste? what part of the code, I mean13:00
afd_I'd say, for starters, the full traceback13:00
* ARiKA-2 really starter lol13:01
lisppaste6Arika pasted "problem..." at
ARiKA-2yes yes13:05
ARiKA-2X server died... have to wait lol13:05
ARiKA-2that one13:06
ARiKA-2creating a content type "somewhat like a folder" in order to "get all my site together"...13:06
afd_DeprecationWarning: The 'content' alias for the 'class' directive has been deprecated and will be removed in Zope 3.5.13:06
afd_What are you using to generate that skeleton?13:07
ARiKA-2I've got zope 3 book13:07
afd_which one?13:07
ARiKA-2the official13:07
ARiKA-2it was on the website13:07
ARiKA-2Zope 3 Developer's handbook13:07
afd_yeah... :) I think it was written with zope 3.0 in mind13:08
ARiKA-2by Stephan Richter13:08
afd_<content> is replaced by <class>13:08
afd_look in the apidoc > zcml reference13:08
ARiKA-2If you don't RTFM you won't ever learn13:08
ARiKA-2that'ss what I think...13:08
ARiKA-2so it changed in the lastest versions, isn't it?13:08
ARiKA-2didn't seee that line in the backtrace13:09
afd_that's not your real problem though13:09
ARiKA-2that's the class13:10
afd_you have a folder called araSquared, with a file called, with a class called Ara2Site ?13:10
ARiKA-2(not the interface)13:10
afd_ok... you have a problem pointing to the right class13:11
ARiKA-2Tell me :)13:11
afd_first, make sure you have files in your two folders13:11
ARiKA-2it is on all the inheritance of directories13:12
ARiKA-2a __init__.py13:12
afd_as a side not, you're really verbose with the naming13:12
ARiKA-2if not the tree won't be a package13:12
afd_side note13:12
ARiKA-2that's what my python book says, at least13:12
afd_yes, right13:12
ARiKA-2really verbose?13:12
ARiKA-2don't know if a name conflict could happen really...13:12
afd_araquared/site/ might be a good path13:13
afd_if you want to keep the site in a separate package13:13
afd_in you put your Ara2Site class13:13
afd_and you point to it with13:13
ARiKA-2would be in the hierarchy of araSquared13:13
afd_<class class="">13:13
afd_if you place the configure.zcml in the folder where the module would sit, you can do13:14
ARiKA-2that's only a recommendation, isn't it?13:14
afd_<class class=".app.Ara2Site">13:14
ARiKA-2ahhh yeah13:14
ARiKA-2file class Ara2Site13:14
afd_yes, just a recomendation/conventions13:14
ARiKA-2conventions conforming what? :)13:14
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ARiKA-2I know there are some rules for Zope 3 packages13:15
afd_python convention: you name all packages/modules with lowercases, classes with upper case13:15
ARiKA-2hmm ok13:15
ARiKA-2I'm not a Python programming really13:15
ARiKA-2I read 2 books before beginning this hahaha13:15
ARiKA-2A friend of me recommendated me to learn python...13:15
afd_don't worry, python's easy13:15
ARiKA-2yeah yeah13:15
ARiKA-2coming from C/c++ it gets easy13:15
ARiKA-2I was looking for a way to create a website13:16
ARiKA-2but LAMP systems are exhausted really13:16
afd_really, grok might be easier for you13:16
ARiKA-2and I knew Zope from Plone and so13:16
ARiKA-2and I saw that Zope 3 was a bit difficult..13:16
ARiKA-2I'm liking it, don't worry13:16
ARiKA-2have time to code :)13:17
afd_Grok is a layer on top of zope 3 which uses several conventions to make it easier to put your app together13:17
ARiKA-2afd_: yeah, people recommended me Grok13:17
ARiKA-2But don't like the name :_13:17
ARiKA-2Hahaahahahahahahahah :)13:17
afd_grok helps you grok zope 3 :)13:17
ARiKA-2yeah yeah13:17
ARiKA-2smashing zope 3 is the misssion of grok I read13:18
afd_in grok, for example, you can get away with a lot less zcml code, which I think it's the dificult thing to understand in the begining13:18
afd_there are some tutorials which are more up to date then the handbook13:18
afd_the Todo app tutorial, I think13:19
afd_there's a link from the wiki page to it13:19
ARiKA-2I don't have a problem about doing my app, really...13:19
ARiKA-2Zope is powerful.13:19
afd_ok, that's cool13:19
ARiKA-2Would get ok with what I want to do.13:19
afd_but I'm worried you'll get frustrated by the old docs13:19
ARiKA-2Oh no...13:19
ARiKA-2They are simply outdated.13:20
ARiKA-2But I got the concept about Zope.13:20
ARiKA-2The worse part for my website won't ever be coding it...13:20
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ARiKA-2It would be making a layout themee for it hahahaha :)13:20
afd_what type of site you're doing?13:21
ARiKA-2I'm doing my personal site.13:21
ARiKA-2But I have to create something13:21
afd_I see13:21
ARiKA-2in order to have a mathematical and multilingual reference13:21
afd_reading some code will help you13:21
ARiKA-2I have to integrate latex into the code in order to generate all the images13:21
ARiKA-2that appear around the web..13:22
ARiKA-2but I planned it a bit...13:22
afd_that shouldn't be much of a problem...13:22
ARiKA-2I've got a folder13:22
ARiKA-2where I put what I call filters13:22
ARiKA-2so if the latex filter is active on a document13:22
ARiKA-2then it will parse latex inline code13:22
ARiKA-2That's the reason because I don't use a LAMP system...13:23
ARiKA-2From all the CMS that exist only Drupal or Joomla! was ok for me.13:23
ARiKA-2But Joomla! mosLaTeX was abandoned and doesn't work on 1.5 (I fixed it, but generates really bad images lol)13:23
ARiKA-2and Drupal one, DruTeX, doesn't work on 6.2 and I have no idea about Drupal modules...13:24
ARiKA-2Zope, when you do the CMS by yourself13:24
afd_There's an example of an app you can look at13:24
ARiKA-2offers more possibilities13:24
ARiKA-2ok :)13:24
ARiKA-2afd_: I can tell you... no one talks about Zope lol13:25
ARiKA-2I discovered it when I saw Plone13:25
ARiKA-2and one day I installed Zope 2.x without plone and see what it is about...13:25
afd_yeah... it's not heavily promoted13:25
ARiKA-2Not really...13:25
ARiKA-2all my friends recommended me PHP...13:26
ARiKA-2but I'm bored of PHP... :\13:26
ARiKA-2PHP here, PHP there, PHP everywhere...13:26
afd_well, between php and python I'd chose python13:27
ARiKA-2Hahahaha :)13:27
ARiKA-2My friend told me that python gets you addicted lol13:27
afd_but the learning curve is a bit longer13:27
ARiKA-2About Zope?13:27
ARiKA-2I realised about that13:27
afd_many many years ago when I made the transition from php I thought python's docs suck cause they don't have inline comments. Now I appreciate them more13:28
ARiKA-2Well, I could use Apache+mod_python (that will be also a LAMP)13:28
ARiKA-2but I loose Zope's web framework13:28
ARiKA-2afd_: afaik they are # lalla or """ lalala """13:28
afd_I'm not trying to steer you away from zope, but many of the python developers right now are enamoured with Django13:29
afd_There's also Pylons and Turbogears13:29
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ARiKA-2What happens with Django?13:29
afd_it's a complete framework to build websites, with an SQL database13:30
afd_something to bring the ease of PHP to the unwashed python masses, I guess :)13:30
ARiKA-2yeah yeah... :)13:30
ARiKA-2now I'm thinking about doing a Theming thing for this...13:30
afd_it's probably a thousand times better then php, but still not zope13:30
ARiKA-2no Idea about what to do... I'll continue reading lol13:30
ARiKA-2I want to learn Zope really :)13:31
afd_ARiKA-2: there is a book that is published and up to date on z313:31
ARiKA-2what book13:31
afd_Web component development with Zope, v313:31
ARiKA-2next month I'll print it13:31
ARiKA-2it is not a free book, isn't it?13:31
afd_it's not13:31
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afd_at the very least get the code, it's free13:32
afd_if you can, but the book, you'll do its author a favour :)13:32
ARiKA-2yeah sure13:33
afd_but = buy13:33
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ARiKA-2yeah yeah13:34
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ARiKA-2afd_: as far as I see...13:36
ARiKA-2I have to implement a Document object that contains languages...13:36
ARiKA-2That i18n implementation is really what to say...13:37
ARiKA-2if I have to translate my website on that way would be harder13:37
afd_I've done multilanguage content recently13:37
afd_using the z3c.language.* packages13:37
ARiKA-2how is it about?13:37
ARiKA-2I've seen that Translating domain thing...13:37
ARiKA-2and well... ugly interface for translating...13:38
afd_for me, easy. I plan to write a tutorial about it13:38
ARiKA-2would be beetter using Document.html/en_US and so13:38
afd_using those packages you translate through your content item's edit interface13:38
afd_yes, like plone + LinguaPlone, if you know about that13:39
ARiKA-2no, not really13:39
ARiKA-2I've set up plone sites13:40
ARiKA-2but were no multilingual :)13:40
afd_well, LinguaPlone adds a translate menu to content items, which lets you edit/translate from Plone's interface13:40
ARiKA-2the module continues to fail after changing it to class13:41
afd_make sure you point to the class, not to the module13:41
ARiKA-2what you mean...13:42
ARiKA-2    <class class="araSquared.Ara2Site.Ara2Site">13:42
ARiKA-2got that13:42
ARiKA-2file Ara2Site class Ara2Site into that file13:42
ARiKA-2so what would be the problem? :\13:44
afd_I'm not sure13:44
afd_post a traceback again13:44
ARiKA-2I point to that into <factory>13:44
afd_you don't really need factories13:44
ARiKA-2ah no?13:45
afd_unless you're doing a really extensible CMS, it's just one more level of indirection...13:45
ARiKA-2what do they serve for?13:45
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afd_they allow you to have "policies" on object creations13:46
ARiKA-2My project would extend as I waant lol13:46
ARiKA-2what I need what I code13:46
afd_like, initialize them with certain values, for example13:46
afd_It's still easy, if you really decide later on that you want to do something like that, to add a subscriber for the IObjectAddedEvent, that would allow you to do something with that object13:47
ARiKA-2hey, I'm in that book on the chapter about creating content... lol13:48
afd_zope has an event framework, so you can program stuff to react to events13:49
ARiKA-2Is this very powerful, this stuff...13:50
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ARiKA-2afd_: I have to do also an users management thing?14:19
afd_depends on what your intentions are...14:20
ARiKA-2having users :)14:20
ARiKA-2and they can register from the webpage and so...14:20
ARiKA-2I've got some contributors for my mathematical reference, also lol14:21
afd_there's a package that covers users registration14:21
ARiKA-2will integrate with whatever application?14:21
afd_probably yes14:21
ARiKA-2I'm gonna read the code and see it :)14:22
ARiKA-2do it stores users informations?14:24
afd_that's covered by the PAU, builtin zope component (
ARiKA-2ohh :\14:25
afd_it's covered in a basic way, you're supposed to extend the classes with your own info (create your own kind of internal principal object)14:26
ARiKA-2inheriting from PAU, isn't it?14:26
afd_no... creating new types of InternalPrincipal objects14:27
ARiKA-2an user object14:27
afd_actually, in retrospect, it may be an unnecessary idea14:27
ARiKA-2objects can be simply Python objects, issn't it?14:27
ARiKA-2not actually a content object14:27
afd_yes, they're python objects14:27
ARiKA-2ahhh I get it...14:27
ARiKA-2as I read those logic goes into non-content place of Zope...14:28
afd_usually you inherit from Persistent, PersistentList, PersistentMapping or BTreeContainer, depending on the type of content object you want to do14:28
ARiKA-2if Every user makes an object14:28
ARiKA-2would be BTreContainer14:28
afd_regarding users: you'll probably have homefolders, you can store their info on the home folder14:28
ARiKA-2you can make an object not seen by the web, isn't it?14:29
afd_zope also has the concept of annotations14:29
ARiKA-2if you don't add browser/ thing then the object will be completely transparent to the system...14:29
ARiKA-2that's about DublinCore or whatever :)14:29
afd_you can attach any information to an object without "poluting" its initial meaning and purpose14:29
ARiKA-2yeah yeah...14:30
ARiKA-2hmm.. I'm beginning to really like this lol14:30
ARiKA-2saves more time than PHP ^^14:30
ARiKA-2into an object I can annotate things like "Owner of the file" and a lot of etceteras14:31
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afd_this is covered by the security mechanisms14:31
ARiKA-2I'm gonna read that in some few chapters14:31
afd_tells you who has what roles on an object14:31
ARiKA-2and you can also create roles, isn't it?14:31
afd_and you14:32
ARiKA-2(Writer, publisher, administrator, and so)14:32
afd_yes, you create roles, permissions, and you grant the permissions to roles14:32
ARiKA-2Right now I got the kind of idea that makes people not use or promote Zope lol14:33
ARiKA-2(it's difficult to understand hahaha)14:33
afd_then you grant a role to a user (principal id) in the context of an object (with IPrincipalRoleManager)14:33
afd_roles are inherited along the tree of objects14:33
ARiKA-2so, for every home folder I add the folder with IPrincipalRoleManager pointing to the desired user14:34
ARiKA-2and then I grant to him all the roles in order to use the folder14:34
afd_tipically you'll create a role "portal.Owner", and grant this role to the user14:36
afd_then you can reuse this role, in case you have shared folders, where more then one user creates content14:36
ARiKA-2and what would be the idea about making all the site look with a templated layout?14:37
afd_1. you can do a layout template, where you define a macro and slots using the templating METAL mechanism14:38
afd_in your pages you say that you use the page macro, and you fill the body or whatever slot14:39
ARiKA-2depending on the view I select a template14:39
afd_kind of14:39
afd_there's also the z3c.pagelet stuff, where, for each view, you have a layout template and a "content" template14:40
afd_then there's the viewlets, which can be used as "building blocks". Not exactly layouting stuff, but you'll probably want to know about them14:41
ARiKA-2the book I have14:41
ARiKA-2talks about that?14:41
afd_no, viewlets are a newer thing14:41
afd_but it talks about the templates and macros, you need to learn that14:41
ARiKA-2the ZTP thing, no?14:42
ARiKA-2or DTML14:42
afd_you don't need to touch dtml14:42
ARiKA-2templates are done in ZTP14:42
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afd_here's an article on the subject, written by your's truely:
ARiKA-2bookmarking it14:42
ARiKA-2of course this extends to be able to select the template of the document if whatever...14:44
ARiKA-2(doing python code)14:44
ARiKA-2thank you very much14:48
ARiKA-2I'll continue reading the book14:48
ARiKA-2I want to finish it and code more14:48
ARiKA-2Zope is fantastic14:48
afd_read this also, while going through the book14:49
afd_it tells you some of the changes14:49
afd_also, at least get the code from, it also has up to date examples of code14:49
ARiKA-23.4c1 here lol14:49
ARiKA-2I don't find on the  Internet the code...14:50
ARiKA-2I mean14:50
ARiKA-2the book14:50
afd_wcsite.tgz might also be of interest to you14:51
ARiKA-2that's only examples14:51
ARiKA-2I'll see them, btw...14:52
ARiKA-2Thank you very much.14:52
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ARiKA-2it is needed to write all that tests the book talks about?15:11
afd_they're not required to run the app, if that's what you mean15:12
ARiKA-2but what do they serve for?15:13
afd_unit testing, automated tests, help with refactoring and so on15:14
ARiKA-2ahh ok15:14
afd_most of a things a test should do15:14
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ARiKA-2do Zope has a revision system or whatever?20:54
ARiKA-2(because of the UNDO button lol)20:54
afd_ARiKA-2: thanks to its transactional nature, zope can undo changes made to the database20:56
afd_there are separate extension packages if you need more than that20:57
afd_(ex: versioning)20:57
ARiKA-2I was thinking about making an RCS add-on lol20:58
ARiKA-2when you view the file you check out the desired version and so20:58
ARiKA-2and save documents in RCS file format20:58
afd_there's also z3c.vcsync21:01
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