IRC log of #zope3-dev for Tuesday, 2008-08-05

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ktwilightnot so interesting to know that z3+python2.5 doesn't work in 64bit systems12:04
philiKONit now does12:10
philiKONshane fixed the bugs12:10
ktwilightoh really...12:10
ktwilightdo you know the bug report #? so i can start digging12:10
philiKONjust make sure you use the latest bugfix releases of zope.proxy, zope.security and zope.app.container12:10
philiKONunfortunately i don't12:10
ktwilightgoogle came up with https://bugs.launchpad.net/zopeproject/+bug/181529 so...12:11
ktwilighthm, k, thanks for the tip12:11
philiKONhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/zope3/+bug/24838012:12
philiKONthese are the bugs that shane fixed, i think12:13
ktwilightyup digging :)12:13
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philiKONktwilight: i just followed up on that bug report12:19
ktwilightah cool, thanks!12:20
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ChrisWmorning all12:56
ChrisWhow do you provide global utilities where the utility requires configuration?12:56
ChrisWthe utility directive only seems to allow construction of utilities that take no parameters...12:57
bigkevmcdChrisW: I asked a similar question sometime ago12:59
ChrisWdid you get an answer? ;-)13:00
bigkevmcdyip...lemme pastebin an edited version13:00
bigkevmcdhttp://zope.pastey.net/9312613:01
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ChrisWewww :-(13:06
ChrisWI don't want the config to be in python...13:07
ChrisWhow is this done for things like rdb adapters and the like?13:07
mintsaucegetting this error on buildout: File "/private/var/folders/zx/zxf3SpOSG78CaO7SVKSTeU+++TI/-Tmp-/tmpy5kUBg/zc.buildout-1.1.1-py2.4.egg/zc/buildout/easy_install.py", line 866, in develop13:07
mintsauceAssertionError13:07
mintsaucehaven't touched easy_install recently ...13:08
mintsauce:(13:08
ChrisWpastebin the whole lot13:08
bigkevmcdChrisW: Aye...my next question was "Why isn't that use case simpler?"13:10
ChrisWindeed, what was the response?13:10
bigkevmcd":-)"13:11
bigkevmcdin fairness to Phillip, there's not really an obvious way13:11
ChrisWriiight... very fucking helpful ;-)13:11
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ChrisWwell, the utility directive should allow some way of passing arguments to the constructor of the utility13:12
bigkevmcdI'd argue for that too13:12
ChrisWsadly, I guess the "answer" would be to have a custome zcml directive for each utility13:12
mintsauceahhh -- further up the traceback - OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'src' - makes more sense, but still no idea why not ... hmmm13:12
bigkevmcdChrisW: exactly13:13
ChrisWmintsauce: pastebin the whole traceback if you want help please...13:13
lisppaste6mintsauce pasted "Buildout error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/6472013:13
ChrisWbigkevmcd: there be pain and suffering ;-)13:13
ChrisWmintsauce: right, so at a guess, you#re flatscone package has no src directory in it13:13
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ChrisWug, you#re -> your13:14
mintsauceChrisW: yup, thats the guess i just made ;)13:14
ChrisWmoral of the story: read the whole traceback before complaining ;-)13:14
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ChrisWbigkevmcd: that said, even if we were using Zconfig instead of zcml (which is what I'd prefer) you'd still need different configuration sections13:15
mintsauceChrisW: Yaarr - couldn't see it for looking ;)13:15
ChrisWtard ;-)13:16
lisppaste6mintsauce annotated #64720 with "more buildout errors" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/64720#113:18
mintsauceLooks like svn interfering? I've just upgraded locally to Subversion 1.5 - i know that changed the .svn format - but seems strange that it would cause this error.13:20
ChrisWyeah, now check the distutils list13:20
ChrisWsvn 1.5 does cause problems if you dont specify a version in your setup.py13:20
ChrisWthe nameerror on lof is just a stupid bug in setuptools13:20
ChrisWanyone know how to unit test a meta directive?13:20
mintsauceHow do i specify the svn version in setup.py?13:22
ChrisWer?13:22
ChrisWno, the version of your egg13:22
ChrisWsetup(..., version='0.0.1',...)13:23
mintsaucei have that declared already13:24
ChrisWoh well, over to the disutils mailing list for some pain and suffering for you then ;-)13:26
mintsaucelol - why thanks ;)13:27
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mintsauceGot the sausage: http://bit.ly/svnbreakseasy13:34
ChrisWare you using buildout in non-newest mode or some such?13:43
mintsauceprobably should13:46
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philiKONChrisW: the answer isn't a custom zcml directive for each utilit y14:28
philiKONChrisW: it's quite easy to create a zcml directive that takes arbitrary parameters. you could then decide what to do with those parameters in the handler14:28
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ChrisWphiliKON: where do you think the config for say, a database adapter, should live then?15:12
philiKONdid you read my replies on the list?15:12
ChrisWmintsauce: nope, if you aren't using non-newest mode then I don't understand why buildout didn't upgrade setuptools for you15:13
ChrisWphiliKON: yep, but I don't agree ;-)15:13
ChrisWfor that matter, how is a utility supposed to pull a config from zope.conf or paste.ini?15:13
philiKONi told you15:14
philiKONzope.app.appsetup.product.getConfiguration()15:14
philiKONit's in one of my replies15:14
philiKONthis reads stuff from zope.conf15:15
ChrisWwhat egg is zope.app.appsetup in? does it work in both zope 2 and zope 3?15:19
philiKONthe zope.app.appsetup egg15:20
philiKONno it's zope 3 only15:20
ChrisW:-(15:20
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ChrisWso I want the package I'm writing to work in both Zope 2 and Zope 315:20
philiKONzope 2 must have other ways for getting at the ZConfig result15:20
philiKONhmm15:20
ChrisWmeh, zcml directive works fine in both...15:21
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ChrisWbenji: auth FAIL ;-)15:21
philiKONGuest45653: ?15:21
ChrisWfwiw, I like all config in one file15:21
Guest45653ChrisW: indeed15:21
ChrisWI don't like xml ;-)15:21
philiKONto me zcml isn't config15:21
philiKONit's code15:21
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philiKONso i wouldn't want it to mix with admin-related config15:22
philiKONat least not in the same file15:22
ChrisWfor mortar I intend to use a ZConfig-based config to allow registration of views and utilities ;-)15:22
* benji grovels in irssi configs.15:22
ChrisWthat just runs top to bottom, none of this whining about conflicts stuff...15:22
ChrisWirssi?15:22
benjiIRC client15:22
ChrisWheh15:23
ChrisWjust use pidgin :-P15:23
ChrisWeven idiots like me can use it :-)15:23
* benji averts his eyes.15:23
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ChrisW?15:23
benjiI tried pigin for IRC; it didn't sit well with me15:23
ChrisWreally? how come?15:24
benjiit's been a couple years so I don't remember the details; some tools don't fit certain hands as well as they do others15:25
ChrisWyes, take anything starting with "z" and the rest of the python community ;-)15:25
afd___benji: konversation is pretty good, especially after you configure properly the notification settings15:26
benjithat's more akin to not wanting to hold a hand of a different color; to strech the metaphor to the breaking point15:26
benjiafd___: thanks, I'll keep that in mind15:27
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mintsauce*sigh* - Get the following when trying to view APIDoc book - TraversalError: (<zope.app.apidoc.bookmodule.book.BookModule object at 0x2578bd0>, 'cookie_tree')17:14
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philiKONmintsauce: <include package="zope.app.tree" />17:19
mintsaucephiliKON: cheers :)17:20
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mintsaucehmmm .. apidoc need zope.app.onlinehelp too?17:26
philiKONprobably17:26
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mintsauceForbiddenAttribute: ('__len__', <zope.app.onlinehelp.onlinehelptopic.RESTOnlineHelpTopic object at 0x282d7b0>)17:34
mintsauceincluded zope.app.onlinehelp in zcml ...17:34
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mintsauceline 86, in hasChildren lenght = bool(len(self.context))17:43
philiKONyou're missing security declarations17:43
mintsaucehope that length typo isn't it ....17:43
philiKONare you sure you included zope.app.onlinehelp ?17:43
philiKONin zcml17:43
philiKONdid you restart?17:43
mintsauceyup - it wouldn't start at all before i added it - lemme do it again for good measure17:44
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philiKONmintsauce: z.a.onlinehelp certainly has the right directives17:45
mintsauce<include package="zope.app.onlinehelp" file="meta.zcml" />17:46
mintsaucecorrect include?17:46
philiKONuh17:47
philiKONand17:47
philiKON<include package="zope.app.onlinehelp" />17:47
philiKONotherwise configure.zcml won't be loaded17:48
mintsaucennng - pesky includes - frameworks are all very well, until you forget one of them ;)17:49
philiKONi wish it was easier too17:49
philiKONfwiw, zopeproject has an example apidoc.zcml file17:49
philiKONthat has all the necessary includes17:49
ignashmm, shouldn't apidoc configure.zcml just include all the neccessary stuff, so it would at least render?17:50
philiKONyou'd think17:50
philiKONat least it should include all the meta17:50
ignaswhich is what i'd expect17:50
ignasi mean - zcml has all this mechanism for handling duplicate includes properly17:50
ignasthere is no reason not to use it17:51
philiKONright17:51
philiKONthere's one caveat17:51
philiKONfive re-implements a couple of directive handlers17:51
ignasi'd consider that a special use case, not a normal one17:51
ignasbut i guess my point of view is different...17:51
philiKONto many people that's an every day usecase :)17:51
ignasi mean - five developers can just split apidoc configure.zcml into 2 parts and use the second one only17:52
ignaswhile others should be using the "convenient" api17:52
ignasor are you overriding meta declarations for other packages all the time?17:52
mintsaucephiliKON: thats got it - thanks for help17:52
philiKONignas: no, just for browser:* directives17:53
philiKON(which are many, though)17:53
mintsaucephiliKON: you thinking of doing a 4th edition of your book? I was installing APIDoc on the advice of chapter 23, which still assumes it comes with Zope3 ;)17:53
philiKONyes, 4th ed. is palnned17:53
ignasby the way - can you use overrides to override default browser meta.zcml ?17:54
philiKONi was wondering that17:54
philiKONbut meta configuration doesn't happen thru actions17:54
philiKONit happens right away17:54
philiKONit'd be intersting to try out17:54
mintsaucephiliKON: great - including stuff on buildout? I've had to adapt as i go.17:54
philiKONif it can be done with overrides, then it won't a be problem for five17:54
philiKONmintsauce: sure17:54
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philiKONmintsauce: grok, buildout, eggs, etc.17:55
mintsaucephiliKON: good news :) Any eta?17:55
philiKONnope :)17:55
mintsaucephiliKON: whats your view on Grok? I'm learning Zope 3 from scratch and looked into it before settling on Zope 3 'proper'.17:56
philiKONgiven that i'm one of its authors, i like it :)17:56
philiKONthat said, i've done trainings with pure zope 317:56
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philiKONand i've done trainings with grok17:56
philiKONand you just wouldn't believe the difference17:57
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mintsaucephiliKON:18:02
mintsaucein what way?18:02
philiKONwell, you could teach somebody to be a car mechanic by giving him all the parts necessary to build a car18:05
philiKONso you start teaching him how to build the car18:05
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philiKONand at the end of it all, the car is drivable18:05
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philiKONand then you can finally teach him how to drive18:06
philiKONor you could just get a functional car, teach him how to drive first18:06
philiKONand then show him how to modify it18:06
philiKONboth get the job done18:06
philiKONbut what do you think is easier on the apprentice?18:06
* mgedmin is trying to imagine a purely functional car18:08
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philiKONs/functional/functioning/18:08
philiKONpurely functional car: ariel atom18:09
mgedminhey, is it true that nobody in the zope world uses subscription adapters?18:09
mgedminonly handlers?18:09
philiKONno true18:09
philiKONnot true even18:09
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mgedminI was looking for usage examples and did a grep in the zope 3 trunk tree18:09
philiKONz3c.traverser uses subscription adapters for traversal18:09
mgedminah18:09
philiKONwell, zope 3 trunk18:09
philiKONthat's just a minor fraction of zope code out ther e :_18:09
philiKON:)18:09
mgedminyes, but it can be conveniently checked out ;)18:10
philiKONgoogle?18:10
mgedminI always thought using subscription adapters for traversal was a bloody bad idea18:10
mgedminyou can't override them, you can't control the ordering18:10
mgedminnamed adapters are better18:10
philiKONyes18:10
mgedminokay, re: ordering, I suppose you could add an attribute and sort() the list returned by zope.component.subscribers18:11
* ignas has actually reimplemented z3c.traverser using named adapters18:11
philiKONah18:11
philiKONi take that back then18:11
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ignasthat makes it a lot more controlable when extending an application18:12
philiKONyes, b/c you can override18:12
ignasor use layers18:12
ignasand overlay18:13
ignaswhich is even better18:13
ignasbut i had the control of the whole application18:13
philiKONindeed18:13
ignasso i could replace most of the subscriber definitions with custom zcml directives18:13
mintsaucephiliKON: nice summary :)18:14
ignasbefore switching the backend code18:15
ignas  <zope:singleAttributeTraverserPlugin18:15
ignas      for="schooltool.demographics.interfaces.IDemographicsPerson"18:15
ignas      name="emergency1"18:15
ignas      permission="zope.Public" />18:15
ignasis a lot nicer than writing python bit and then registering the subscriber in zcml18:16
mgedminhm, could you do that without extra directives?18:16
mgedmin<zope:adapter factory="...SingleAttributeTraverser" for="...IDemoPerson" name="emergency1" /> ?18:16
ignasmgedmin: there are 2 more custom directives18:17
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ignasthe adapterTraverser being the more important one18:17
ignas  <adapterTraverserPlugin18:17
ignas      for="schooltool.course.interfaces.ISection"18:17
ignas      layer="zope.publisher.interfaces.http.IHTTPRequest"18:17
ignas      name="activities"18:17
ignas      adapter="schooltool.gradebook.interfaces.IActivities"18:17
ignas      />18:17
mintsauceHow do I 'reconfigure our session / cookie credentials plug-in, or any other IBrowserFormChallenger Plug-in to redirect to wclogin.html, instead of18:24
mintsaucezope's standard form'?18:24
mintsaucephiliKON: from your book, pg 421 - not that you have to answer ;)18:25
philiKONthere's some attribute that you can set on the session or cookie plugin18:25
mintsauceI'm using your CookieCredentials code18:26
mintsaucefrom the book - rather than the version in pypi (is there any difference?)18:26
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ChrisWhey all again :-)18:29
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ChrisWso, if I've got a piece of code that gets called from somewhere, and somewhere has nothing to do with the zodb, for do I get hold of the zodb inside my code?18:30
philiKONgetUtility(ISomeObjectThatWasREgisteredAsALocalUtility)18:31
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philiKONor:18:31
philiKONdb = getUtility(ZODB.interfaces.IDatabase)18:31
philiKONconn = db.connect()18:31
philiKONroot = conn.root()18:31
philiKON...18:31
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ChrisWthe latter looks about right18:36
ChrisWalthough I guess it might be easier to just register an adapter against a context and then the context will have a zodb referecne, right?18:37
ChrisWthat said, how does a local utility get access to its "place" in the zodb?18:37
philiKONlocalutility.__parent__18:38
ChrisWaha18:38
ChrisWinteresting... now, how would I get an absolutely minimal setup of zope 3 such that I can publish some views?18:38
philiKONinclude zope.comonent's meta, zope.app.publisher's meta and include zope.app.publication's configure18:40
philiKONmight be more18:40
ChrisW*nods*18:40
ChrisWwhat's the correct way to get "a zope 3 setup" nowadays?18:41
* ChrisW guesses something buildout based?18:41
philiKONzopeproject seems to be a popular one18:41
philiKONzopeproject essnetially creates a buildout and runs it18:41
fcorreasrichter, hi. Is there a special reason on why everything in z3c.form is registered for IFormLayer and not for , say, IDefautBrowserLayer?18:41
srichterfcorrea: yeah18:42
srichterfcorrea: default browser layer is full of stuff that I have no or little control over18:42
srichterin my apps, I never ever base a skin on default browser layer18:42
fcorreasrichter, same here. But we are trying to create an extension to grok in the form on megrok.z3cform and the question was raised in ml18:43
srichterthat said, I am okay, if someone adds a parallel configuration tree for default browser layer18:43
srichterI even add it to the package18:44
srichterbut it should be optional to load18:44
philiKONi don't think that's necessary. i think it's reasonable telling people to include that layer in their skin18:44
fcorreaand in grok, things are supposed to be simple and registered for default browser layer so having this extra step make people ask why. But I get it18:45
fcorreaphliKON, I agree with that. Just trying to get the answer for faassen18:45
ChrisWphiliKON: interesting, do is that the "offical zope 3" release now or is there something else?18:45
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philiKONfcorrea: i agree with srichter in that not registering things with IDefaultBrowserLayer gives you *a lot* of flexibility18:46
philiKONfcorrea: i also agree that in grok we might want to make things easier18:46
philiKONfcorrea: but there are ways. for instance to include this layer in a default skin registered by grok18:46
mgedminzope.app.authentication and zope.app.container eggs contain broken doctests18:48
mgedminwindows-style CRLF line endings enter into the picture somehow18:48
* mgedmin sends email to list18:48
fcorreaphiliKON, well, I got z3c.form going with grok very easily. But some people seems not to like the layer registration process to get the form going18:48
ChrisWmgedmin: yeah, I wish doctest wasn't so fragile like that :-(18:48
philiKONChrisW: no. it's nothing official18:48
philiKONChrisW: it's just something i hacked together so that people could easily get started wiht a z3 buidout18:49
ChrisW*nods*18:49
philiKONmgedmin: we need svn:eol-style=native for all files18:49
philiKONmgedmin: everybody should have that as their svn clien tsetting18:49
ChrisWokay, so what's the "official" installation process?18:49
mgedminsvn badly needs repository-wide configuration18:49
philiKONyes18:50
mgedminChrisW: there isn't one, afaik18:50
philiKONmgedmin: the reason that these contain windows CRLFs is that the releases were made from windows by jim18:50
ChrisWmgedmin: yep, does bzr have that?18:50
philiKONChrisW: there isn't ne18:50
philiKONone18:50
mgedminChrisW: bzr doesn't have eol conversions at all :-)18:50
philiKONChrisW: it's just a bunch of eggs18:50
srichtermgedmin: I saw that too, but my checkout has native lines; maybe another problem with Windows releasing18:50
mgedminwell, maybe the latest unreleased version almost has something like it18:50
ChrisWweird, so what constitutes "zope 3" as a release now?18:50
philiKONthere isn't a zope 3 release18:50
mgedmina file named versions.cfg18:50
philiKONzope 3 isn't an application18:50
philiKONit's a set of libraries18:50
philiKONyou write the app that uses the libraries18:51
mgedminhttp://download.zope.org/zope3.4/versions.cfg18:51
ChrisWmgedmin: eesh, and I to think I was contemplating moving to bzr :-(18:51
mgedminChrisW: try it out!  you'll get burned a few times, and the wish will pass18:51
ignasyeah, use hgit-ng ;)18:53
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fcorreaoh...everyone is back19:03
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ChrisWhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netsplit19:03
ChrisW:-)19:03
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fcorreaI've seem this before but not this big19:04
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ChrisWhey Christian, fixed that bug in zeoraid yet? ;-)20:24
* Theuni runs20:26
Theuniit's not a bug! it's a missing feature. ;)20:27
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ChrisWbah20:28
ChrisWnon-recovering raid is not a feature :-P20:28
ChrisWdid Jim reply at all about those branches?20:28
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Theuninot that i could see20:33
Theunii'll meet him at a sprint in august though20:33
Theunihe'll be at the black forest sprint afaik20:33
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ChrisWheh, make sure you pin him down on your branches and shane's20:37
ChrisWreally need to get them all merged :-/20:37
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benjiJim's on vacation this week; I can't decide if that increases or decreases the likelyhood that he'll look at the patches ;)20:38
ChrisWheh20:39
Theunihehe20:40
TheuniWell. It might increase the chance that he's energetic for looking at them afterwards. :)20:40
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TheVisionHello.  I'm trying to find a way to provide a list of users and their assigned roles [whether global or locally shared within plone] and have not found a nice way to do this?  I've tried this product: http://agendaless.com/Members/tseaver/software/zopesecurityaudit/ but it doesn't do what I'd need.  Anybody have any solutions?21:01
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afd___TheVision: you got the windows wrong, ask on #plone21:04
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TheVisionafd___: well that particular product is a called Zope Security Audit but is somewhat dated so I wasn't sure if something newer is available21:06
afd___TheVision: as I said, ask on #plone21:06
TheVisionafd___: ok well thanks for taking a look..21:07
afd___np21:07
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