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| regebro | How do I debug a buildout that can't find an egg best? | 11:56 |
|---|---|---|
| romanofski | bin/buildout -vv | 11:56 |
| romanofski | ? | 11:56 |
| regebro | The egg (z3extui.rotterdam) exists in http://download.zope.org/zope3.4/ and I have http://download.zope.org/zope3.4/ in the find-links. | 11:56 |
| regebro | romanofski: But it just sais that it can't find it. Not very useful... | 11:57 |
| srichter | you should use it as index | 11:57 |
| regebro | srichter: Aha! | 11:57 |
| srichter | otherwise you have to directly point to the dir | 11:57 |
| srichter | see http://download.zope.org/zope3.4/intro.html | 11:57 |
| regebro | srichter: Weird that the z3ext buildout works. They have pypi as index, and the KGS in find-links. Oh well. | 11:59 |
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| regebro | srichter: Aha! That still didn't work, but now I got a good error message. The package doesn't exist on pypi. | 12:01 |
| regebro | Evidently, because they renamed it to z3ext.ui.rotterdam, and then removed the old packages. Grrrrrr. | 12:02 |
| regebro | OK, I can get around that. | 12:03 |
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| regebro | Is anyone else then Nikolay Kim + the other guys using z3ext? Because I'm trying to evaluate it. Again (Tried in April too), and its' broken. | 12:53 |
| regebro | Just as it was in April. | 12:53 |
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| regebro | If it's constantly broken and not possible to evaluate, then it's kinda hard for other to use. :-/ | 12:54 |
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| regebro | malthe: ping! | 13:37 |
| malthe | regebro: pong! | 13:44 |
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| regebro | malthe: I was just gonna ask if Vudo was compatible with Grok, but timte told me it isn't. | 13:48 |
| malthe | regebro: well, compatible yes, but we don't currently use it | 13:48 |
| malthe | also, Vudo is in the process of being reinvented a little bit (see http://docs.vudo.me). | 13:49 |
| malthe | we're about to go down a library path and we're repoze.bfg-based. | 13:49 |
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| regebro | malthe: OK, do you have an elevator pitch you can do, to what it actually does and why I should use it? :) | 13:50 |
| malthe | regebro: yes! | 13:51 |
| regebro | cool. | 13:51 |
| malthe | that wasn't the pitch; here it comes... | 13:51 |
| malthe | so currently we just have one offering: ``vudo.bfg``. | 13:51 |
| malthe | why should you use it: because it greatly simplifies skinning a website in terms of complexity | 13:52 |
| malthe | the template is central and you simply pull in API as needed | 13:52 |
| malthe | no more ZCML or browser views | 13:52 |
| malthe | the filename *is* the name of the view and templates double as METAL macros | 13:53 |
| malthe | however, unlike Zope 2 skins, ``vudo.bfg`` templates are registered as components, so they can be targeted | 13:53 |
| malthe | the only catch is that we didn't invent a way to get to the API's yet! | 13:54 |
| malthe | so it's useless at the moment. | 13:54 |
| malthe | we're considering context/@@my_api, but then we don't want to use path-expressions | 13:54 |
| malthe | it'll probably some like tal:define="my_api api.navigation" | 13:54 |
| regebro | malthe: OK, interesting. | 13:55 |
| malthe | or if you need a different context, tal:define="my_api api(my_other_context).navigation" | 13:55 |
| regebro | Skinning is a later topic, so I don't need to look at it yet, thankfully. :) | 13:55 |
| regebro | I'll look at it when (if) the project gets there. Cool stuff! | 13:56 |
| malthe | regebro: my take on it is that it needs to be easier to take some code and provide your own templates | 13:56 |
| malthe | k | 13:56 |
| timte | malthe: so the web designer needs to learn this new expression language? | 13:56 |
| malthe | timte: Python? | 13:56 |
| malthe | it's just Python, but with a few conventions (variables) | 13:56 |
| timte | ok | 13:56 |
| malthe | so far: ``macros`` and probably, ``api`` | 13:57 |
| malthe | e.g. you can say metal:use-macro="macros.global_navigation" | 13:57 |
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| timte | "take zope into the future" - sounds good | 14:06 |
| malthe | timte: :-) | 14:07 |
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| thekryz | Can someone tell me any differences between a Python dictionary and JSON? | 14:22 |
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| thruflo | json is an object notation sytax for strings | 14:24 |
| thruflo | if you get a json string like '{'a': 'b'}' then you can convert it to a python dict (and vice versa) using simplejson, etc. | 14:24 |
| thruflo | a python dict is a native datatype | 14:25 |
| thekryz | but the notation is almost the same | 14:25 |
| * thruflo nods - although json can also have strings, integers and lists | 14:26 | |
| thekryz | so I was wondering about the differences. Maybe one is that you can put any kind of Python object into a Dict, while JSON is quite restrictive in that respect | 14:26 |
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| fairwinds | project01: ping | 17:09 |
| fairwinds | oops projekt01: ping | 17:09 |
| projekt01 | pong | 17:10 |
| fairwinds | hey ya roger. I want to split up z3c.form into subpackages so we can use it in other frameworks | 17:10 |
| fairwinds | i don't see stephan here today but would like to call the package z3c.input and have subpackages under this ie. z3c.input.form, z3c.input.widgets, z3c.input.validators etc | 17:12 |
| projekt01 | fairwinds, I think three is an refactoring right now of z3c.form, I guess malthe implements z3c.pt support | 17:12 |
| malthe | I do, I do | 17:12 |
| projekt01 | I guess srichter and malthe know more about that | 17:12 |
| projekt01 | ;-) | 17:12 |
| malthe | projekt01: we need to think of a way to use z3c.form without complete zope buyin | 17:12 |
| projekt01 | faisrwinds, what do you mena by split z3c.form? in what parts? | 17:13 |
| malthe | perhaps the core z3c.form package should limit itself more | 17:13 |
| fairwinds | yes this is only for template portion though. I am concerned about this refactoring without as many zope dependencies | 17:13 |
| projekt01 | malthe, do we have new dependencies because of z3c.pt or is this an optional part? | 17:14 |
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| malthe | projekt01: we have dependencies because of z3c.form's add forms and friends | 17:14 |
| malthe | e.g. the higher-level components | 17:14 |
| malthe | z3c.pt is optional, too | 17:14 |
| projekt01 | malthe, throw the zope.app. IAdding part away ;-) | 17:14 |
| malthe | projekt01: and zope.app.pagetemplate.interfaces.IPageTemplate | 17:15 |
| fairwinds | we currently have dependencies on many zope packages. but splitting this we can rely on some core packages and also use some new without zope dependencies. | 17:15 |
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| fairwinds | so other frameworks such as repoze can use some packages without using all of it where it draws in more zope | 17:17 |
| projekt01 | fairwinds, what do you think whould be good for split out? | 17:17 |
| projekt01 | I think we should remove any useless dependency from z3c.form but that depends not on z3c.pt addons | 17:18 |
| projekt01 | e.g. zope.app.form | 17:18 |
| projekt01 | are you scarry about the lxml dependency like me because three is not always a windows binary for lxml? | 17:19 |
| fairwinds | there seems to be some nice concept of division in interfaces for package. perhaps we look at subpackages along the lines of the interface groupings that currently exist here | 17:20 |
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| projekt01 | lxml will make it required that we release z3c.form with lxml 1.2.1 or so and I know others use lxml 1.2.2 allready in their projects | 17:20 |
| projekt01 | srichter, ^^^^ | 17:20 |
| fairwinds | srichter: hi ya | 17:21 |
| projekt01 | since there is no lxml support for any newest pacakge for windows we can't use them in release | 17:21 |
| projekt01 | If we make lxml a dependency for z3c.form we have to support better windows releases for lxml, we probably need to talk with Martijn about that | 17:22 |
| projekt01 | malthe, ^^^ ? | 17:23 |
| fairwinds | srichter: I would like to refactor z3c.form into some subpackages to we can rely on some core packages and permit use in other packages without so many zope dependencies | 17:23 |
| projekt01 | fairwinds, what do you think is usefull outside z3c.form? | 17:25 |
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| fairwinds | much of it I believe. repoze still uses CA so we want to continue using zope.schema in conjunction with form generation | 17:26 |
| srichter | there is no dpenendency on z3c.pt in z3c.form | 17:26 |
| srichter | it is a soft dependnecy only | 17:26 |
| projekt01 | fairwinds, do you think about schema - dataconverter e.g. some components which can be used for any schema field | 17:26 |
| projekt01 | srichter, but lxml? | 17:26 |
| * malthe looks | 17:26 | |
| srichter | and if you are not using lxml for your XML needs you are a fool ;-) | 17:26 |
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| projekt01 | the problem is the version of lxml | 17:27 |
| srichter | no, lxml is only pinned in buildout.cfg | 17:27 |
| malthe | projekt01: z3c.pt runs, although it limbs, without lxml | 17:27 |
| malthe | that's a goal for 1.0.0 | 17:27 |
| srichter | it makes no assertion on th edpes | 17:27 |
| projekt01 | cool ;-) | 17:27 |
| malthe | we still need an XPath evaluator and PDIS.Xpath has disappointed | 17:28 |
| srichter | in Keas we use 1.2.2 for example | 17:28 |
| projekt01 | even more cool | 17:28 |
| malthe | projekt01: we need to get rid of zope.app. dependencies | 17:28 |
| projekt01 | I see, but z3c.form requires a lesser version and that's fine, right? | 17:28 |
| projekt01 | yes, yes, yes | 17:28 |
| malthe | :-) | 17:28 |
| malthe | z3c.pt requires lxml 2.1.1 :-( | 17:29 |
| srichter | fairwinds: what dpes do you want to remove? | 17:29 |
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| srichter | correction: at Keas we use 2.1.2 | 17:29 |
| projekt01 | malthe, yes we always need to verify if there is a windows binary for lxml. otherwise it's impossible to release public | 17:30 |
| fairwinds | srichter: not remove anything really, just split up so packages can be consumed selectively | 17:30 |
| projekt01 | It's alomost impossible to compile lxml for windows users | 17:30 |
| srichter | fairwinds: can you give me examples? A concrete proposal would be nice | 17:30 |
| malthe | projekt01: ditto Mac :-) | 17:30 |
| projekt01 | ;-) | 17:31 |
| malthe | srichter: what about the IPageTemplate part | 17:31 |
| malthe | that's a nasty dependency | 17:31 |
| fairwinds | srichter: or zope.security | 17:31 |
| projekt01 | malthe, it was usefull till you added pt support ;-) | 17:32 |
| malthe | projekt01: yes, but it's defined in ``zope.app.pagetemplate`` | 17:32 |
| malthe | perhaps it should just be ``IFormTemplate`` | 17:32 |
| projekt01 | malthe, probably we should add a z3c.formzpt and z3c.formpt package? | 17:32 |
| malthe | projekt01: hmm; we have z3c.pt.compat which bridges these things | 17:33 |
| projekt01 | that's fine for me, probably we should split zpt also into a own package | 17:33 |
| fairwinds | srichter: I see this sort of refactoring as something similar to what was done for all the zope alchemies. Now everyone relying on z3c.saconfig and z3c.alchemy as core. | 17:34 |
| projekt01 | malthe, but I guess that ends in removeing zpt from pagelet and any other UI using package too, right? | 17:35 |
| srichter | malthe: the good news is that as soon as you have ported the other packages to z3c.pt as well, the definition of IPageTemplate can move into z3c.pt.compat | 17:35 |
| fairwinds | i will need to write something up for sure but would like to see core packages so at least dependencies are isolated and consideration to removing zope.app right away | 17:35 |
| fairwinds | this way we are not forking anything. folks rely on core an can diverge for framework if necessary | 17:36 |
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| projekt01 | malthe, I thkink if z3c.pt is working and stable, we probably will switch any package to z3c.pt in a long term | 17:37 |
| srichter | fairwinds: I want to be somewhat conservative with z3c.form, because stability is very important and if we have 10 packages without being able to create a coherent story than that;s no good | 17:38 |
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| srichter | fairwinds: that said, all the current development is towards z3c.form 2.0, so more parts can move | 17:38 |
| malthe | projekt01: I think in some two months we'll be in a position to say it's completely stable | 17:38 |
| malthe | I want to have a beta out in about two weeks and then see how it fares | 17:39 |
| projekt01 | malthe, sounds great to me, reserve a day for dringking a beer or two with me after that ;-) | 17:39 |
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| malthe | projekt01: k, I will :-) | 17:41 |
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| srichter | fairwinds: I think the zope.security dependency could be resolved using an extra_require like the containe3r support | 17:43 |
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| fairwinds | srichter: also zope.publisher which is an issue since repoze has its own | 17:45 |
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| fairwinds | srichter: getting something to eat, be back in a bit | 17:47 |
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| hazmat | is there a known solution for setuptools issues with svn 1.5 in conjunction with buildout? | 18:15 |
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| mgedmin | downgrade to svn 1.4 | 18:18 |
| mgedmin | nuke all checkouts | 18:18 |
| mgedmin | check them out afresh | 18:18 |
| mgedmin | curse pje and all subversion developers | 18:18 |
| mgedmin | repeat last step until pain subsides | 18:18 |
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| agroszer | mgedmin, yah that s..s | 18:20 |
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| mgedmin | anyway, that's what I did | 18:25 |
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| agroszer | J1m, hi, any infos about setuptools development opening up? | 18:33 |
| timte | hazmat: you can run dev06 version of setuptools | 18:34 |
| J1m | agroszer, I have the impression that it is, but I'mnot paying close attention. | 18:35 |
| agroszer | thanks, anyway | 18:36 |
| hazmat | timte, you mean spec that version in the buildout? | 18:36 |
| hazmat | mgedmin, yeah.. i'm pretty close to blogosphere bashing on the setuptools | 18:37 |
| hazmat | mgedmin, this issue should be open till the release is out, cause its not fixed imo otherwise.. http://bugs.python.org/setuptools/issue4 | 18:39 |
| mgedmin | launchpad has "fix committed" and "fix released" | 18:40 |
| mgedmin | I like that distinction | 18:40 |
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| timte | hazmat: it's probably possible to do it in a number of places, in your system python for instance, or patch the egg in your eggs directory like http://mrtopf.de/blog/plone/using-subversion-15-with-setuptools-in-python-technical/ | 18:52 |
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| hazmat | timte, thats sort of against the whole point of buildout.. | 18:55 |
| mgedmin | timte: patching the egg is not trivial | 18:56 |
| mgedmin | it's a shell script concatenated with a zip file | 18:56 |
| mgedmin | that's downloaded from the web and placed into your eggs directory | 18:57 |
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| mgedmin | by ez_setup | 18:57 |
| timte | hazmat: sure, but it's just temporary until it's fixed | 18:57 |
| mgedmin | maybe you could unzip it in place, I dunno | 18:57 |
| mgedmin | according to pje, it's already "fixed" | 18:57 |
| mgedmin | so what if nobody can get the fix without doing an arcane dance under a full moon? | 18:58 |
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| hazmat | timte, how many months still qualify as temporary? | 19:03 |
| hazmat | svn 1.5 released june 19th | 19:04 |
| hazmat | afaics alll this needs to fix is pje to spend 3 secs and kick out a release of the 0.6 maintenance branch | 19:05 |
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