IRC log of #zope3-dev for Thursday, 2008-09-11

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fairwindssrichter: could you agree with splitting widgets into a separate package and depending upon it with z3c.form?00:54
srichterfairwinds: what is your goal?00:56
fairwindsreuse so can depend upon it using a different package with fewer dependencies00:56
srichterreuse of the widgets or z3c.form?00:57
fairwindswidgets. I am thinking of parts that we are reasonable to reuse without. z3c.form as it is will not work for me so hoping we can find some common ground00:59
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fairwindssorry. I am thinking of parts that we are reasonable to reuse01:00
mgedminarr, zope.testing 3.6.0 has broken --coverage01:00
fairwindsi heard what you said this morning about many packages but perhaps a couple of core packages of functionality might be agreeable01:01
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fairwindsso widgets is one that would seem reasonable01:02
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fairwindsand fairly quick and easy to isolate01:02
srichterwhat dependency do widgets introduce in z3c.form that you would like to get rid of?01:03
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fairwindswidgets are fairly straight forward and without much issue. I want them to be isolated in a different package than z3c.form so that z3c.form and whatever form package i create can depend upon the widgets package01:04
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fairwindssrichter: I think this is a reasonable thing that more than one package could depend upon the same widgets01:10
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fairwindssrichter: Another possibility is to create a small core of reusable functionality depending upon only a few things. Likely 80% of the package depends on 4 packages. the other 20% brings in the rest. We could have a z3c.form.core that is this 80% where packages could depend on this01:21
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mgedminhey, does anyone know why zc.recipe.testrunner 1.1.0 requires zope.testing >= 3.6.0?01:22
srichterfairwinds: can you send me an E-mail hwo a particular feature pulls in an additional dependency?01:23
fairwindssrichter: this would be similar to grokcore.component. Perhaps we can use this name like z3c.form.component or z3c.formcore01:23
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srichterI did not get much sleep last night, so I cannot think clearly right now01:23
srichterI do not have a problem with this sort of approach, once I understand the goal01:24
srichterI still do not see what splitting this stuff up buys us01:24
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fairwindssrichter: What is buys is reusability in multiple frameworks since z3c.form otherwise relies on too much. We don't use zope.publisher in repoze and it is kept deliberately minimal. So this sort of thing will facilitate use outside of zope. I will send an email with my proposal.01:26
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fairwindssrichter: should be usable in pylons also with something like this if a small part is rewritten together with dependency on a core.01:28
srichterzope.publisher is a pretty strong assumption throughout the code01:33
srichterthere is very little code that does not depend on it01:33
* mgedmin suspects ctheune's refactoring01:34
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fairwindsCA architecture is universal and we can use zope.schema, zope.component, zope.interfaces, zope.i18, etc. outside of zope. Will look at how much of z3c.form we can get with these - its a large percentage.  If a form core is separated, we can use another publishing process and rewrite this part. Then z3c.form can rely on core and package I produce can rely on same core.01:35
srichterfairwinds: if the benefit is great enough I am all for it01:37
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srichterfairwinds: actually the most interesting question for me is: What parts would you reuse how from z3c.form?01:40
fairwindssricher: Thats great Stephan. It can allow the core to be used in virtually any other python framework which is real benefit.01:40
srichterbut what is the core?01:41
srichterat least how you define it?01:41
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fairwindssricher: the majority is reusable. I think it would be best for me to write this in an email. I can identify what would be in the core based on minimal dependencies01:42
srichteryep, I agree01:42
fairwindsI am looking at modules that can be included based on packages they import01:42
fairwindscool. I'll get busy and write this up then.01:44
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MiUlErpucha el pidgin se muere con todo, solo funciona para mensajeria, para entrar a una sala de chat con su protocolo irc, no funciona, y para salas propias de jabber tambien se cuelga02:20
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jayaraj_oh! is not there now?! its now.... but where is all the z3c packages now? i am trying to find them but i cant! :/09:44
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afd__jayaraj_: is old stuff. You might find packages here:
afd__ works for me... I don't know about svn:// though09:46
jayaraj_oops... then why its not working for me... hmm... afd__ let me check... bbs09:46
jayaraj_huh! now it works!.... afd__  doesnt make sence... anyways its working now .. may be i did something wrong then :)09:48
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jayaraj_afd__ have you ever used webDAV with zope3?09:52
afd__jayaraj_: nope09:52
jayaraj_IIRC philip's book says zope3 has built-in support for webDAV....  i trying it now...09:53
jayaraj_i am* trying it now09:53
afd__there are also some z3c packages for webdav09:54
jayaraj_z3c.dav and zope.webdav is there....09:54
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a7phi everyone, I've got a pretty boring question which you may be heard a lot to often, but I could not find anything usable in the zope-faq nor with google.13:06
a7pWhat's zope3s strategy concerning Python3?13:06
thrufloit's ostrich based :p13:09
* thruflo in no way knows the serious answer to that qu13:10
a7pupsi ...13:12
a7pnot so nice13:12
afd__a7p: there will probably be a long time before linux distribution start shipping only py3k instead of anything based on the 2.x branch13:12
afd__so I wouldn't be too woried13:13
* a7p thought about doing a bigger zope-centered-Project... and carrying that to py3 is of cause a question.13:13
a7pzope and python... not a nice topic ... tried to get 2.4 binarys for windows shortly ago - does not offer the most current 2.4 bugfixrelease as a binary ... well time will solve things (hopefully)13:14
a7pthx for the information.13:14
afd__a7p: there will probably efforts to port zope... there always are. Py3k is not even released yet, why worry :-)13:15
* a7p will learn to stop worrying and learn to love the ... snake, whichever revision it is.13:16
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agroszera7p, activestate offers binaries for win13:48
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a7pagroszer: I solved it by taking the 2.4.4 release, which was still packed binary. At activestate's I only found a python2.5, ... but I did not look very long. It was a bit unpleasing, because I had to search in front of a costumer.13:50
agroszerweird, they offer 2.4.5 too13:50
a7plooked kindo of unprofessional I guess ... and may be it was *g*.13:50
a7pagroszer: was really in a hurry, but good to know, I'll look for it tomorrow.13:50
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guido_wg'day... any zc.selenium devs around by any chance? i have a patch, not sure what to do with it...15:53
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* romanofski waves to guido_w 15:55
guido_whi romanofski :)15:55
romanofskibut I'm not a zc.selenium developer ...15:55
guido_wromanofski: are you coming to nl for the plone thing?15:55
romanofskino - probably not15:55
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guido_wromanofski: i noticed theuni is though... is he around?15:55
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romanofskiI'm currently in saarbruecken15:55
guido_wromanofski: could you ask him what i should do? can i send him a patch or sth?15:56
guido_wromanofski: what are you doing therE?15:56
romanofskithere is currently a panel discussion with theuni, martijn, benji, tres, etc15:56
guido_wah :)15:56
romanofskia german zope conference15:56
guido_wah, dzug or sth?15:56
guido_wromanofski: i'm going to pycon-uk tomorrow, then hpk and fijal are coming over for a couple of days... so don't think i'll be on the plone thing either15:57
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guido_wdzug any good so far?15:57
romanofskiso la la15:57
romanofskipycon-uk sounds interesting15:57
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guido_whm, indeed... seems like a good ep replacement for me for this year ;)15:58
romanofskihaven't been to ep this year as well15:58
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guido_wwhat's the plan for next year, do you know where it will be held?15:58
romanofskithough there is currently nothing serious I'm working on15:58
romanofskiI'll be in Australia next year15:59
guido_wah, nice!15:59
guido_wwork related or sabbatical? :)15:59
romanofskithere is a bigger linux conference in January - hope I can do a few presentations15:59
romanofskisabbatical related15:59
romanofskiJan is my mentor ;)15:59
guido_wcool! :)15:59
guido_wtell her hello15:59
romanofskiI'll do :)16:00
romanofskihope I can find a job for the year I'll be there16:00
romanofskiat least something interesting16:00
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peaquinoI've got a question about zc.sourcefactory16:18
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peaquinois there a reason, that classes inheriting from BasicSourceFactory can have __init__ methods with custom signatures and ones inheriting from ContextualSourceFactory do not?16:20
peaquinoright now I'm developing a set of contextual sources, used in different subprojects16:22
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peaquinoI planned to pass them project-specific methods to extract Oracle connections from context16:23
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peaquinowhich would be passed in a constructor16:23
projekt01guido_w, srichter is using selenium tests, probably he whould be interested16:23
guido_wprojekt01: ah, thanks... i'll ping him if i don't happen to run into other people :)16:24
guido_w(such as Theuni, hello? :)16:24
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Theuniguido_w: jo16:25
guido_whey... i bolted a command-line option onto zc.selenium to allow selecting what tests to run (you pass a regexp)16:26
guido_wnow, i've long ago lost the ssh key to do checkins into zope's svn, and also i'm not sure if i should just svn ci16:27
guido_wso i figured perhaps you know what to do... (svn annotate revealed your name, among others :)16:27
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guido_wdo you think it makes sense to commit this feature?16:28
guido_wand if so, can i send you a patch or something?16:28
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peaquinoTheuni: can I ask you a question about zc.resourcefactory?16:34
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guido_wTheuni: still there? :)16:35
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Theunikind of17:05
Theunii'm on the german zope conference right now17:05
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__mac___peaquino: ask it17:12
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peaquinois there a reason, that classes inheriting from BasicSourceFactory can have __init__ methods with custom signatures and ones inheriting from ContextualSourceFactory do not?17:14
peaquinoright now I'm developing a set of contextual sources, used in different subprojects17:14
peaquino I planned to pass them project-specific methods to extract Oracle connections from context17:15
peaquino which would be passed in a constructor17:15
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guido_wTheuni: yeah, understood that already... so... i'll ping you later or sth...17:24
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guido_wTheuni: (and, have fun :)17:33
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elrowhat's the zope 3 equivalent to ZPublisher's filestream_iterator?17:54
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yotaffhow get all implemented & provided interfaces by an instance classe  or a classe on pure python ?19:05
yotaffwithout apidoc19:06
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ignasyotaff: look at how apidoc does that ;)19:07
ignasyotaff: and anyway - why would you need that in your application code?19:08
yotaffpure theoretical question :)19:11
yotaffbut very attractive I think19:13
yotaffmore interesting to introspect in Python debugger instead to look permanently in apidoc19:15
ignasmost of the time it's faster to look at the code19:19
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CSWookieIs there a blessed buildout associated with the KGS?  I want something to hand to an intern so he can do the examples in philiKON's book.20:32
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mgedminhey, it seems that bin/buildout doesn't exit with an error code when it fails to satisfy egg dependencies22:36
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