IRC log of #zope3-dev for Sunday, 2008-11-30

*** MiUlEr has quit IRC00:14
*** MiUlEr has joined #zope3-dev00:17
*** aaronv has quit IRC00:43
*** MiUlEr has quit IRC00:46
*** dunny has quit IRC00:55
*** pelle_ has quit IRC01:03
*** timte has quit IRC01:11
*** regebro has quit IRC01:15
*** norro has quit IRC01:17
*** strichter has joined #zope3-dev01:23
*** srichter is now known as Guest6196701:30
*** strichter is now known as srichter01:31
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o srichter01:31
*** Guest61967 has quit IRC01:33
*** Jell-O-Fishi has joined #zope3-dev01:53
*** davisagli has left #zope3-dev01:55
*** harobed has quit IRC03:05
*** romanofski has quit IRC03:16
*** jsadjohnson_ has quit IRC03:33
*** pcardune_ has joined #zope3-dev04:35
*** alga has quit IRC04:36
*** jfkw has quit IRC04:47
*** pcardune has quit IRC04:52
*** zagy has quit IRC04:53
*** hazmat has quit IRC05:12
*** pcardune has joined #zope3-dev05:14
*** pcardune_ has quit IRC05:31
*** Jell-O-Fishi has quit IRC06:29
*** dunny has joined #zope3-dev06:58
*** fairwinds has quit IRC07:01
*** tdoggette has quit IRC07:39
*** __mac__ has joined #zope3-dev08:18
*** __mac__ has quit IRC08:25
*** kursor has joined #zope3-dev08:31
*** jukart has joined #zope3-dev09:39
*** romanofski has joined #zope3-dev09:44
*** jukart_ has joined #zope3-dev09:50
*** jukart has quit IRC09:50
*** pelle_ has joined #zope3-dev09:52
*** agroszer_ has joined #zope3-dev09:53
*** jukart_ has quit IRC10:03
*** george_ has joined #zope3-dev10:06
*** jukart has joined #zope3-dev10:15
*** jukart has quit IRC10:26
*** redir has quit IRC10:28
*** tarek has joined #zope3-dev10:29
*** tarek has quit IRC10:35
*** tarek has joined #zope3-dev10:38
*** alga has joined #zope3-dev10:57
*** tarek has quit IRC11:06
*** flox has joined #zope3-dev11:24
*** flox has left #zope3-dev11:27
*** philiKON has joined #zope3-dev11:37
*** tarek has joined #zope3-dev11:46
*** zagy has joined #zope3-dev11:50
*** alga has quit IRC11:51
*** philiKON has quit IRC11:52
*** pcardune_ has joined #zope3-dev11:53
*** pcardune has quit IRC11:55
*** pcardune has joined #zope3-dev11:55
*** george_ has quit IRC11:57
*** pcardune_ has quit IRC12:13
*** norro has joined #zope3-dev12:20
*** dunny has quit IRC12:28
*** MrTopf has joined #zope3-dev13:09
*** MrTopf has quit IRC13:10
*** Jell-O-Fishi has joined #zope3-dev13:22
*** pcardune_ has joined #zope3-dev13:23
*** jhauser has joined #zope3-dev13:25
*** kursor has quit IRC13:27
*** jukart has joined #zope3-dev13:27
*** jukart has quit IRC13:31
*** pcardune has quit IRC13:39
*** jukart has joined #zope3-dev13:46
*** agroszer_ has quit IRC13:51
*** Theuni has left #zope3-dev13:54
*** pcardune has joined #zope3-dev13:59
*** jukart has quit IRC14:04
*** regebro has joined #zope3-dev14:04
*** pcardune_ has quit IRC14:05
*** jhauser has quit IRC14:05
*** afd_ has joined #zope3-dev14:13
*** junkafarian has joined #zope3-dev14:22
*** kiorky has quit IRC14:28
*** baijum has joined #zope3-dev14:34
*** kiorky has joined #zope3-dev14:36
*** afd_ has quit IRC14:36
*** alga has joined #zope3-dev14:47
*** jukart has joined #zope3-dev15:05
*** pcardune has quit IRC15:30
*** tarek has quit IRC15:33
*** jukart has quit IRC15:41
*** afd_ has joined #zope3-dev15:44
*** fairwinds has joined #zope3-dev15:49
*** baijum has quit IRC15:51
*** davisagli has joined #zope3-dev15:51
*** kursor has joined #zope3-dev15:57
*** davisagli has left #zope3-dev16:14
*** agroszer_ has joined #zope3-dev16:23
*** Zpenguin has quit IRC16:30
*** timte has joined #zope3-dev16:34
*** tarek has joined #zope3-dev16:34
*** tarek has quit IRC16:36
*** afd__ has joined #zope3-dev16:38
*** flox has joined #zope3-dev16:50
*** afd_ has quit IRC16:54
*** projekt01 has joined #zope3-dev17:00
*** Theuni has joined #zope3-dev17:18
*** jfkw has joined #zope3-dev17:29
*** JaRoel|4D has quit IRC17:39
*** afd__ has quit IRC17:40
*** timte has quit IRC17:44
*** srichter has quit IRC17:44
*** rocky has quit IRC17:44
*** markusleist has quit IRC17:44
*** BjornT has quit IRC17:44
*** BjornT has joined #zope3-dev17:45
*** srichter has joined #zope3-dev17:46
*** afd_ has joined #zope3-dev17:49
*** junkafarian has quit IRC17:52
*** agroszer has joined #zope3-dev17:58
*** markusleist has joined #zope3-dev17:59
*** rocky has joined #zope3-dev17:59
*** timte has joined #zope3-dev18:01
*** agroszer_ has quit IRC18:04
*** redir has joined #zope3-dev18:05
*** baijum has joined #zope3-dev18:08
*** tarek has joined #zope3-dev18:09
*** redir has quit IRC18:11
*** redir has joined #zope3-dev18:12
afd_with a new project created by zopeproject, zope doesn't start because of missing README.txt and savepoint.txt from the "transaction" egg18:28
*** tarek has quit IRC18:40
*** davisagli has joined #zope3-dev18:42
*** jukart has joined #zope3-dev18:51
*** projekt01 has quit IRC18:57
*** quodt has joined #zope3-dev19:04
Theuniafd_: that sounds weird19:07
Theunican you post a traceback from that?19:07
Theuniyou posted a bug19:08
afd_I did19:08
Theuniso thats an issue of
Theuniif you don't need the apidoc, you can disable it19:08
afd_I need it19:08
afd_I don't think that's not the issue...19:08
TheuniWatch the double negative. ;) Then apidoc maybe should start logging a warning instead of preventing to start up, though.19:09
*** junkafarian has joined #zope3-dev19:09
afd_there is a "conflict" between the transaction package and, over the ownership of the text files from transaction19:09
afd_should they, or should they not be included in the egg? :)19:09
afd_I think it doesn't hurt to include them... that would require the least amount of changes in
*** tarek has joined #zope3-dev19:13
*** junkafarian has quit IRC19:14
*** J1m has joined #zope3-dev19:14
*** tarek has quit IRC19:17
*** tarek has joined #zope3-dev19:22
TheuniJ1m: ping19:24
TheuniI'm writing a proposal to let the transaction package recognize data managers that don't support TPC and to act in a "reasonably" safe manner.19:25
TheuniMay I explain a bit more? :)19:26
J1msure, go ahead :)19:26
TheuniFact is: people do integrate those kind of data managers all the time, but they do so badly.19:26
TheuniI think there's a way to make those integrations more reliable.19:26
TheuniUnder the condition that we only allow a single "single phase" data manager, I believe that either letting it execute its commit last during the vote phase or first in the finish phase, we'd be fine.19:27
TheuniOriginally I tended toward last in vote phase, but revising the proposal, I found that first in finish phase might be better.19:28
*** aaronv has joined #zope3-dev19:28
TheuniGiven your immediate -1 I also have the feeling there's a larger risk that I don't see.19:29
J1m"reasonable" is very brittle in this context.19:29
J1mAlso, the opportunity is very narrow.19:30
J1mPeople who want to imtegrate these dm's will want to integrate more than one and won't understnd why it's broken.19:30
J1mI don't want to encourage this sort of thing.19:30
TheuniI understand that.19:31
J1mcool. :)19:32
*** baijum has quit IRC19:32
TheuniCurrently we do encourage it because people write datamanagers that are single phase and don't do *anything* about it.19:32
TheuniGnarr. I might have missed something. My wireless betrayed me.19:32
J1mwireless will do that.19:33
TheuniSeems like I'm in the middle between to APs and they keep switching and Ubuntu kills the connection in between ...19:33
TheuniAnyway, what did you reply "cool" to?19:33
J1mIf people write broken implementations of an api, there's not much we can do about it. That doesn't mean the framework should try to accomidate them.19:34
J1mI replied cool to you inderstanding why I'm still -1.19:34
TheuniDid I say "Currently, ...." ?19:35
Theuni.oO(/me hates doing error recovery manually...)19:35
J1mI think it would be better to write better documentation of 2pc and  the downsides/tradeoffs of implementing 2pc incompletely.19:37
*** davisagli is now known as davi|lunch19:39
*** J1m has quit IRC19:41
*** Theuni1 has joined #zope3-dev19:41
Theuni1Wireless keeps falling apart ...19:41
*** Theuni has quit IRC19:41
Theuni1Well. My use case is the integration of databases that simply don't support tpc. So documenting tpc on our side wouldn't help that much.19:41
Theuni1Like older MySQL (<5) instances.19:41
*** agroszer has quit IRC19:42
Theuni1So for me the opportunity isn't that narrow. We already saw quite some data destruction with the classic Zope 2 MySQL integration.19:42
Theuni1I wonder how strong "very brittle" really is.19:42
*** jukart has quit IRC19:43
Theuni1I would rather see a system that knows about that flaw and actively counters the issues.19:45
*** agroszer has joined #zope3-dev19:45
Theuni1Gosh. It's 6:45 already? I've gotta run to get my dancing lessons.19:45
Theuni1i'm talking to the wall ...19:46
*** MrTopf has joined #zope3-dev20:01
*** MrTopf_ has joined #zope3-dev20:03
*** dunny has joined #zope3-dev20:07
*** MrTopf_ has quit IRC20:08
*** MrTopf has quit IRC20:08
*** redir has quit IRC20:09
*** tarek has quit IRC20:16
*** quodt has quit IRC20:16
*** redir has joined #zope3-dev20:17
*** __mac__ has joined #zope3-dev20:24
*** tarek has joined #zope3-dev20:35
*** __mac__ has quit IRC20:47
*** redir has quit IRC20:48
*** redir has joined #zope3-dev20:48
*** davi|lunch is now known as davisagli20:50
*** regebro has quit IRC20:50
*** regebro has joined #zope3-dev20:52
*** redir has quit IRC20:55
*** pelle_ has quit IRC20:55
*** davisagli has quit IRC20:56
*** ktwilight_ has quit IRC21:01
*** ktwilight_ has joined #zope3-dev21:02
*** thetet has joined #zope3-dev21:04
*** ktwilight_ has quit IRC21:06
*** ktwilight has joined #zope3-dev21:07
*** afd__ has joined #zope3-dev21:09
*** ktwilight has quit IRC21:10
*** dunny has quit IRC21:10
*** afd_ has quit IRC21:10
*** thetet has left #zope3-dev21:12
*** ktwilight has joined #zope3-dev21:12
*** J1m has joined #zope3-dev21:12
*** tarek has quit IRC21:13
*** ktwilight has quit IRC21:15
*** dunny has joined #zope3-dev21:15
*** ktwilight has joined #zope3-dev21:15
*** ktwilight has quit IRC21:18
*** ktwilight has joined #zope3-dev21:19
*** tarek has joined #zope3-dev21:51
*** zagy has quit IRC22:02
*** regebro has left #zope3-dev22:19
*** tarek has quit IRC22:31
*** nyo has joined #zope3-dev22:34
*** davisagli_ has joined #zope3-dev22:44
*** agroszer has quit IRC22:50
*** tarek has joined #zope3-dev22:51
*** Theuni1 has quit IRC22:55
*** kursor has quit IRC23:22
*** tarek has quit IRC23:24
*** romanofski has quit IRC23:26
*** strichter has joined #zope3-dev23:35
*** greenman has joined #zope3-dev23:36
*** srichter has quit IRC23:38
*** philiKON has joined #zope3-dev23:50

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!