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| afd_ | with a new project created by zopeproject, zope doesn't start because of missing README.txt and savepoint.txt from the "transaction" egg | 18:28 |
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| Theuni | afd_: that sounds weird | 19:07 |
| Theuni | can you post a traceback from that? | 19:07 |
| Theuni | ah | 19:07 |
| Theuni | you posted a bug | 19:08 |
| afd_ | I did | 19:08 |
| Theuni | so thats an issue of zope.app.apidoc | 19:08 |
| Theuni | if you don't need the apidoc, you can disable it | 19:08 |
| afd_ | I need it | 19:08 |
| afd_ | I don't think that's not the issue... | 19:08 |
| Theuni | Watch the double negative. ;) Then apidoc maybe should start logging a warning instead of preventing to start up, though. | 19:09 |
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| afd_ | there is a "conflict" between the transaction package and zope.app.apidoc, over the ownership of the text files from transaction | 19:09 |
| afd_ | should they, or should they not be included in the egg? :) | 19:09 |
| afd_ | I think it doesn't hurt to include them... that would require the least amount of changes in zope.app.apidoc.bookmodule | 19:09 |
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| Theuni | J1m: ping | 19:24 |
| J1m | Hi | 19:24 |
| Theuni | I'm writing a proposal to let the transaction package recognize data managers that don't support TPC and to act in a "reasonably" safe manner. | 19:25 |
| J1m | -1 | 19:25 |
| Theuni | May I explain a bit more? :) | 19:26 |
| J1m | sure, go ahead :) | 19:26 |
| Theuni | Fact is: people do integrate those kind of data managers all the time, but they do so badly. | 19:26 |
| Theuni | I think there's a way to make those integrations more reliable. | 19:26 |
| Theuni | Under the condition that we only allow a single "single phase" data manager, I believe that either letting it execute its commit last during the vote phase or first in the finish phase, we'd be fine. | 19:27 |
| Theuni | Originally I tended toward last in vote phase, but revising the proposal, I found that first in finish phase might be better. | 19:28 |
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| Theuni | Given your immediate -1 I also have the feeling there's a larger risk that I don't see. | 19:29 |
| J1m | "reasonable" is very brittle in this context. | 19:29 |
| J1m | Also, the opportunity is very narrow. | 19:30 |
| J1m | People who want to imtegrate these dm's will want to integrate more than one and won't understnd why it's broken. | 19:30 |
| J1m | I don't want to encourage this sort of thing. | 19:30 |
| Theuni | I understand that. | 19:31 |
| J1m | cool. :) | 19:32 |
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| Theuni | Currently we do encourage it because people write datamanagers that are single phase and don't do *anything* about it. | 19:32 |
| Theuni | Gnarr. I might have missed something. My wireless betrayed me. | 19:32 |
| J1m | wireless will do that. | 19:33 |
| Theuni | Seems like I'm in the middle between to APs and they keep switching and Ubuntu kills the connection in between ... | 19:33 |
| Theuni | Anyway, what did you reply "cool" to? | 19:33 |
| J1m | If people write broken implementations of an api, there's not much we can do about it. That doesn't mean the framework should try to accomidate them. | 19:34 |
| J1m | I replied cool to you inderstanding why I'm still -1. | 19:34 |
| Theuni | Did I say "Currently, ...." ? | 19:35 |
| Theuni | .oO(/me hates doing error recovery manually...) | 19:35 |
| J1m | I think it would be better to write better documentation of 2pc and the downsides/tradeoffs of implementing 2pc incompletely. | 19:37 |
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| Theuni1 | gnarr | 19:41 |
| Theuni1 | Wireless keeps falling apart ... | 19:41 |
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| Theuni1 | Well. My use case is the integration of databases that simply don't support tpc. So documenting tpc on our side wouldn't help that much. | 19:41 |
| Theuni1 | Like older MySQL (<5) instances. | 19:41 |
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| Theuni1 | So for me the opportunity isn't that narrow. We already saw quite some data destruction with the classic Zope 2 MySQL integration. | 19:42 |
| Theuni1 | I wonder how strong "very brittle" really is. | 19:42 |
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| Theuni1 | I would rather see a system that knows about that flaw and actively counters the issues. | 19:45 |
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| Theuni1 | Gosh. It's 6:45 already? I've gotta run to get my dancing lessons. | 19:45 |
| Theuni1 | humm | 19:46 |
| Theuni1 | i'm talking to the wall ... | 19:46 |
| Theuni1 | :/ | 19:46 |
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