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| whit | (uuid are used to expose atom resources in this case) | 01:06 |
|---|---|---|
| whit | basically: import uuid; id_ = str(uuid.uuid1()) | 01:07 |
| whit | will give you a unique identifier | 01:07 |
| sparcd | cool | 01:07 |
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| sparcd | cool, and I can use that in my NameChooser | 01:11 |
| sparcd | cool: e848da0f-ecc7-11dd-a174-00233299c0f1 | 01:12 |
| sparcd | might have to make the NameChooser come up with 1,2,3... etc | 01:13 |
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| sparcd | if you were to give a nice unique number to say a person, or a client, or a group, how would you have it? eight random digits? 63339639? | 01:19 |
| sparcd | or start and 1 and count up? | 01:20 |
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| sparcd | whit: the next thing on my mammoth zope 3 quest is a local role adapter. Any pointers? | 01:27 |
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| pcardune | sparcd: depending on what your application does, it is typically not a good idea to use a counter because it is less scalable than uuids | 01:51 |
| sparcd | pcardune: true | 01:51 |
| sparcd | pcardune: doesn't look so good on the URL though | 01:51 |
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| whit | sparcd: zope.app.securitypolicy iirc | 02:28 |
| sparcd | whit: thanks - digging around now | 02:28 |
| whit | the securitypolicy.txt doctest is the key to understanding local roles | 02:28 |
| sparcd | thanks | 02:32 |
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| sparcd | nite all | 03:06 |
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| danfairs | Hi - which package defines the standard permissions used in the default zope security policy (zope.View, zope.ManageContent) etc? I want to find a complete list of what's available by default. | 12:32 |
| danfairs | Found it - zope.app.security's configure.zcml. Makes sense! | 12:36 |
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| sparcd | afd___: I've got my site working nicely so far, I've created a PrinciplePlugin which builds my principles based on content on the site | 18:19 |
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| sparcd | afd___: and my localroles :-) | 18:20 |
| sparcd | afd___: now I need to turn my people folders into groups | 18:20 |
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| sparcd | when I'm inside a content item that is Contained and a Container, when I add an item it gives me a input box on the contents instead of a full form to fill out | 19:45 |
| sparcd | I have a namechooser adapter set up for the content type, but that only kicks in *after* the resulting form | 19:46 |
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| sparcd | fixed it, needed to implement IContainerNamesContainer | 19:51 |
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| sparcd | is there a way of searching for all objects that implement an interface? | 20:04 |
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| mgedmin | sparcd: yes and no, but mostly no | 20:08 |
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| mgedmin | there's findObjectsProviding, that only descends through containers | 20:08 |
| mgedmin | there are ZODB object iterators that iterate over all objects | 20:08 |
| mgedmin | (predictably costing you gigabytes of ram and minutes of wall-clock time, if you've databases of nontrivial size) | 20:08 |
| mgedmin | so, short answer: no | 20:09 |
| mgedmin | you don't want to do that, unless you really need to do that | 20:09 |
| sparcd | mgedmin: would it be best for me to index IContentType, with a attribute "object_type" ? | 20:09 |
| sparcd | in the catalog | 20:09 |
| mgedmin | I think so | 20:09 |
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| mgedmin | although I have to admit I don't understand what problem you're solving | 20:09 |
| mgedmin | but your suggestion included the magical words "index" and "catalog", which usually point in the right direction | 20:10 |
| ignas | sparcd: may I ask you why do you want to do that? | 20:10 |
| sparcd | I would like to search for content on the site and order it by an idex | 20:10 |
| sparcd | index | 20:10 |
| ignas | search for content? | 20:10 |
| ignas | what is "content" ? | 20:10 |
| sparcd | ignas: a content type | 20:11 |
| sparcd | IContentType | 20:11 |
| ignas | and your users know what is IConentType? | 20:11 |
| ignas | and what to search for them? | 20:11 |
| sparcd | no, I want the system to show all the content that matches some values | 20:12 |
| sparcd | the users won't be 'searching' | 20:12 |
| ignas | so you don't want to search for content | 20:12 |
| ignas | you just want to index some fields | 20:12 |
| ignas | so - do all your content objects have some predefined field that you want a full text index for? | 20:12 |
| sparcd | ignas: no, but they soon can have | 20:13 |
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| ignas | and if you are not going to "query" for "give all the IPerson objects that have "Foo" in their name" | 20:13 |
| sparcd | that's why I'm asking what the best way is | 20:13 |
| ignas | then why record the "Person" bit? | 20:13 |
| ignas | your users don't care what type the object is of | 20:13 |
| sparcd | ignas: what happens if you want a list of Clients that are 'Active' | 20:13 |
| sparcd | and the users aren't 'searching' this is a listing page | 20:14 |
| ignas | listing - yes, but still, you are setting the filtering parameters | 20:14 |
| ignas | in some way | 20:14 |
| sparcd | yes, hence why I want Clients that are Active | 20:14 |
| ignas | how many clients do you have anyway? | 20:14 |
| sparcd | ignas: there could be a few or lots | 20:15 |
| ignas | lots is - 4000 ? | 20:15 |
| sparcd | ignas: I have no idea, I'm building a system and don't want to put a finite limit on it | 20:15 |
| ignas | ahh | 20:15 |
| sparcd | so it could be 32000 | 20:15 |
| ignas | so you want to build it to scale | 20:15 |
| sparcd | ignas: yes | 20:15 |
| ignas | as in - overcomplicate your system up front | 20:15 |
| ignas | well - if you want it ;) | 20:16 |
| ignas | a ValueIndex for IClient indexing "active" attribute is enough | 20:16 |
| ignas | to allow you to "easily" query all the active clients | 20:16 |
| sparcd | ignas: well not necessarily overcomplicate it, just a hint in the right direction | 20:16 |
| ignas | hint in the right direction is | 20:16 |
| ignas | Do not use catalog until it starts becoming slow | 20:16 |
| ignas | Premature optimization is the root of all evil! | 20:17 |
| ignas | and Catalog is an optimization | 20:17 |
| ignas | unless you want full text searches | 20:17 |
| sparcd | ignas: ok then, back to my original question, how do I find all IClients that have self.active = True? | 20:17 |
| ignas | but "active" is not a full text search | 20:17 |
| ignas | well your clients are in a container aren't they? | 20:17 |
| sparcd | ignas: they could be in several places, but yes | 20:18 |
| ignas | or are they in multiple different containers? | 20:18 |
| ignas | you either know where your data is, or you don't... | 20:18 |
| sparcd | well there are two containers people can add Clients to | 20:19 |
| ignas | so - look for active clients in one, then look in the other | 20:19 |
| ignas | tada | 20:19 |
| mgedmin | all_active_clients = [client for container in [container1, container2] for client in container.values() if client.active] | 20:20 |
| sparcd | I'm not going to hard code folder ids | 20:20 |
| mgedmin | good! :) | 20:20 |
| ignas | then add a layer of indirection | 20:20 |
| ignas | like an adapter or a utility that returns all the containers | 20:20 |
| ignas | and hardcode the ids in it at the moment | 20:21 |
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| * mgedmin wants to suggest findObjectsProviding again | 20:21 | |
| ignas | until you will find out what and where you want them and can come up with a better abstraction | 20:21 |
| * mgedmin waits for ignas's reaction | 20:21 | |
| ignas | or yeah - ensure that your clients are in a chain of containers in containers | 20:21 |
| ignas | and use findObjectsProviding | 20:21 |
| ignas | but still - I think that not knowing where your data is supposed to be | 20:21 |
| ignas | is not a good idea | 20:21 |
| sparcd | ignas: how are you supposed to create systems where people can add folders etc if you *have* to call them specific things in specific locations? | 20:22 |
| ignas | sparcd: well - it depends on whether you have fixed depth hierarchies | 20:23 |
| ignas | of do you have it more flexible | 20:23 |
| ignas | and only you know if you need it to be "anything anywhere" | 20:23 |
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| sparcd | they might decide to call the clients folder 'Customers' etc | 20:24 |
| ignas | and you rarely need that really | 20:24 |
| ignas | yeah, they might, but as long as it is a "ClientsFolder" you can find it | 20:24 |
| ignas | as long as you know where you can add IClientsFolder objects into | 20:24 |
| sparcd | ignas: this is what I'm trying to get at | 20:24 |
| ignas | you know where to find all of them | 20:24 |
| sparcd | I need to know how to find that | 20:24 |
| ignas | it depends | 20:25 |
| ignas | for instance in schooltool to find all ISectionContainers i just have to iterate through every term in every schoolyear and get all the section containers in the term | 20:25 |
| ignas | but names are not important, interfaces are | 20:25 |
| sparcd | ignas: but how do you find ISectionContainers (this is what I really want to find out) | 20:26 |
| sparcd | "sparcd: is there a way of searching for all objects that implement an interface?" | 20:26 |
| sparcd | replace searching for locating, finding etc | 20:26 |
| ignas | if you know where they are - you know it | 20:26 |
| ignas | if it is so flexible you have no idea | 20:26 |
| ignas | you must iterate through all objects in ZODB to be sure | 20:26 |
| ignas | the more constraints you add the easier it is | 20:26 |
| ignas | contraint 1 - it will be containers in containers | 20:27 |
| ignas | allows you to use findObjectsProviding | 20:27 |
| sparcd | well the clients folder will always be in the root of the site | 20:27 |
| sparcd | even if there are 5 of them | 20:27 |
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| ignas | then just do: [ccontainer for obj in root.values() if IClientContainer.providedBy(obj)] | 20:28 |
| ignas | and that's it | 20:28 |
| mgedmin | just make sure to do it at most once | 20:28 |
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| mgedmin | i.e. in a single function (or adapter), so you can replace it in the future if you find out you need something else | 20:28 |
| sparcd | ignas: do I then have to do a security check on each to see if the user can view it? | 20:28 |
| ignas | yeah, like "find all the sites" first | 20:28 |
| ignas | well yeah, or you will get an error accessing attributes/clients | 20:29 |
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| sparcd | ok, so I find all of the ClientFolders (check to see if the user can access it) then loop over each of the contents (and check the user can access it) | 20:30 |
| ignas | well if you have per client and per folder permissions | 20:30 |
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| ignas | then yeah, that's the only way to be sure | 20:30 |
| sparcd | if a member of one team logs in, they shouldn't be able to see clients of another team etc | 20:31 |
| ignas | well - if you know who logged in | 20:31 |
| ignas | and one team can never see other team resources | 20:32 |
| ignas | then WHY search for ALL clients | 20:32 |
| ignas | why not list the clients for that team only? | 20:32 |
| sparcd | ignas: I was using that as an example | 20:34 |
| ignas | if you want to have per client object access control - you will have to pay the performance costs associated with it | 20:35 |
| sparcd | ignas: I'm *very* new to Zope 3, after coming from Zope 2 and Plone | 20:35 |
| ignas | it's not Zope3 specific, it's common sense ;) | 20:35 |
| sparcd | ignas: how do I know that the client is owned by that team? | 20:36 |
| ignas | implementation detail | 20:36 |
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| ignas | it's your application - it's you who can answer these questions | 20:37 |
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| sparcd | ignas: yes I know | 20:37 |
| mcdonc | er. allowed index? | 20:37 |
| ignas | permissions in an index | 20:37 |
| sparcd | but I don't know where to start when it comes to "why not list the clients for that team" | 20:37 |
| mcdonc | http://static.repoze.org/bfgdocs/tutorials/cmf/catalog.html#creating-an-allowed-index | 20:38 |
| ignas | still fall under "premature optimization" imho | 20:38 |
| sparcd | I have a need, for example, so that when a client logs in they only see the projects they are working on and *cannot* view or edit any others | 20:38 |
| sparcd | so I will have to think how to do this | 20:38 |
| ignas | it all depends on your data architecture really | 20:39 |
| ignas | you either add everything to top level containers | 20:39 |
| mcdonc | the first requirement is probably fine to use a catalog query for; the second is just permissions i think | 20:39 |
| ignas | and relate them through attributes | 20:39 |
| ignas | but you can also do nested containers | 20:39 |
| ignas | based on ownership | 20:39 |
| ignas | or you can use zc.relationships for relationship between objects | 20:39 |
| ignas | or you can use catalog | 20:40 |
| ignas | or whatever you want | 20:40 |
| sparcd | ignas: how do I then control permissions on this? | 20:40 |
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| ignas | well - you can either "use a custom security policy" "use subscribers to set local grants" | 20:41 |
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| ignas | or set local grants on root objects | 20:42 |
| ignas | as local grants are inherited from containment parents | 20:42 |
| ignas | IIRC | 20:42 |
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| mcdonc | yo philiKON hows the application | 20:45 |
| philiKON | hey mcdonc | 20:45 |
| philiKON | sent it off last week | 20:45 |
| philiKON | the other one this week | 20:45 |
| philiKON | now i'll have to wait until they get back to me | 20:45 |
| mcdonc | you're gonna be separating those protons soon, then | 20:45 |
| philiKON | haha. no, not me | 20:46 |
| philiKON | the LHC guys do that | 20:46 |
| philiKON | i'm a theorist | 20:46 |
| philiKON | i'll be separating pencils | 20:46 |
| mcdonc | heh... find that higgs | 20:46 |
| philiKON | right | 20:47 |
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| philiKON | stoopid higgs | 20:47 |
| mcdonc | fucking thing | 20:47 |
| davisagli | philiKON: I've always thought theoretical physics and debugging didn't feel too different | 20:48 |
| philiKON | yeah. my calculations are pretty much like my code. i always end up chasing some stupid sign error | 20:48 |
| ignas | davisagli: they are different, when debugging you always find the bug | 20:48 |
| ignas | not so much in physics ;) | 20:48 |
| davisagli | ignas: always? ;) | 20:49 |
| ignas | yep | 20:49 |
| davisagli | philiKON: all about making something work within constraints that are beyond your control :) | 20:50 |
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