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| trollfot | Hi folks | 00:54 |
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| trollfot | I have my signed commiter agreement, though the email address for posting it seems unexistant. Where should I send it to ? :) | 00:55 |
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| nyo | wtf, I can't send messages to zope-dev mailing lists | 01:23 |
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| nyo | who's the mailing list admin? :-) | 01:33 |
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| nyo | When I try to send any message to any zope mailing lists (tried zope-dev and zope-web), I get permanent delivery failure (CIDR not allowed: 173.194.0.0/16 (state 14)) :( | 01:41 |
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| nyo | Anybody wants check out the zope.app.publisher refactoring results? It's in Sandbox/nadako/zope.app.publisher folder in svn. | 16:33 |
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| DrogoNevets | hi all, i am wanting to limit how many times users can login at once, how do i do this? | 16:39 |
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| benji | DrogoNevets: I don't know of an out-of-the-box way | 16:42 |
| DrogoNevets | benji: what about a walkthrough? We have our own PAU we've written authenticationg against a RDB so we can add something to that? | 16:43 |
| benji | sounds like it might be tricky too -- will sessions expire after a while? will a user be able to expire other sessions that pushed them over the limit? etc. | 16:43 |
| DrogoNevets | we thought of doing it via session too, but it is going to be running on multiple instances so the sessionw ould have to be the the same across the board | 16:44 |
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| nyo | faassen: hey there. do you have time to check out refactored zope.app.publisher as a steering group dude? | 16:47 |
| benji | how secure does it have to be? I suspect you'll have to rely on cookies to identify the browser. Then if a request is made without an identifying token, and handing out a new one would push the user over their login limit you'd display an error instead | 16:48 |
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| DrogoNevets | needs to be a touch more than that unfortunatly | 16:50 |
| DrogoNevets | but that was a good idea | 16:50 |
| benji | "more"? more what? | 16:51 |
| DrogoNevets | more secure | 16:51 |
| DrogoNevets | sorry | 16:51 |
| benji | If the token is reasonably time-limited, the only attack I can see would be if the user copied the cookie value to a different machine; is that an attack you're concerned about? | 16:52 |
| DrogoNevets | thats not no (i assume) - but we need to ensure the user "bob" can login on comp a but not comp b if he is still logged in on comp a, but if her logs out on comp a he can log in on comp b | 16:54 |
| DrogoNevets | does that make sense? | 16:54 |
| faassen | nyo: yeah, I want to catch up on the mailing list. I've been slow in checking it and then last week lots of personal stuff happened, but I'll catch up later this week. | 16:55 |
| benji | I think so. It sounds to me like the token-based approach plus keeping up with whether or not there is an outstanding token (login) would work. | 16:56 |
| DrogoNevets | could you explain it a little more for me then please, not sure i understand? | 16:56 |
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| benji | When a request comes in you'd check to see if they have a non-expired token, if so, let them perform the request. If not, check to see if that user has already had a token granted, if not, give them one and let the request happen. If they have already been issued a token, but didn't present it in the current request, give them a message that says that they have to log out (or wait for the token to expire in X minutes). | 16:58 |
| benji | You'd also need a log-out function that would clear the token and set the log-in count to 0. | 16:58 |
| benji | for a small increase in security you could check not only that the user's token is valid, but that it was the most recently issued token (so they can't re-use tokens for the few minutes they remain valid) | 16:59 |
| benji | plus you'd also have to add a step so that when the user presents an expired token but correct credentials you issue them a new token | 17:00 |
| benji | and now that I think of it the "small increase in security" bit is actually required | 17:01 |
| benji | there are likely corner cases I haven't considered | 17:01 |
| benji | I'm just making this up off the top of my head :) | 17:02 |
| DrogoNevets | thats fine, we're disscussing it now | 17:02 |
| projekt01 | DrogoNevets, theres a simpler solution, just clear all existing tokens if a user will access the site, this will invalidate other open browser logins | 17:06 |
| benji | the tokens are stored in browser cookies, how would one clear a cookie stored in a browser not currently making a request? | 17:07 |
| projekt01 | clear the session token | 17:08 |
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| projekt01 | but, what about with browsers opening more then one tab? | 17:09 |
| benji | DrogoNevets said that they don't have a common session store between processes, so -- if I'm understanding him correctly -- they don't have a way to do that | 17:10 |
| projekt01 | I guess it's not possible at all with tabed browsers, beause they share the http cokies between tabs | 17:10 |
| benji | true | 17:10 |
| benji | I suspect they want to avoid users paying for one account and sharing it amongst many people, so tabs wouldn't be a worry. | 17:11 |
| projekt01 | probably a ticket sysstem could work, but this means you have to use a ticket in each request/post/url etc. | 17:11 |
| projekt01 | yup, whould be good to know what's the real requirements | 17:12 |
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| DrogoNevets | benji, your right, its an anti accoutn sharing thing the customer wants (as well as security) | 17:13 |
| projekt01 | DrogoNevets, another solution could be to implement a session string, after login set this session string as a traverse part e.g. server/sessinID/app | 17:15 |
| projekt01 | make sure you issue a new session string after each login end remove the old one per user | 17:15 |
| benji | I suppose your customer isn't worried about users setting up an HTTP proxy that would let them share a single account. | 17:16 |
| projekt01 | this whould invalidate access to users after the logged in with a new browser | 17:16 |
| projekt01 | even tabed browser could work with such a url pattern | 17:16 |
| DrogoNevets | tabs arent too much an issue, in fact i would say they have to be able to work, but issue with session string there are 5 servers so potentially 5 different sessions | 17:17 |
| benji | unless a user copies the URL from one tab to another, then they would have two tabs using the same account | 17:17 |
| projekt01 | share the sesisson with memcache could solve the problem | 17:18 |
| benji | yep (as long as they aren't worried about the users copying the client ID cookie between browsers) | 17:19 |
| projekt01 | benji, yes your right | 17:19 |
| projekt01 | yes | 17:19 |
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| DrogoNevets | projekt01: how can we share the session? | 17:20 |
| projekt01 | thre is a lovely.memcache package, thsi could be installed as a replacement for the zope session | 17:21 |
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| projekt01 | then the single memcache server will act as a session share | 17:22 |
| benji | if the session is stored in ZODB, you can use ZEO so many web servers can connect to the same DB | 17:22 |
| benji | or, since you already have a relational DB, you can put the session data there | 17:22 |
| DrogoNevets | benji, yes we would be using zeo | 17:22 |
| projekt01 | yes, true | 17:22 |
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| projekt01 | benji, are the session data shared asap or by the time given from a setting in the session container data? | 17:24 |
| benji | ZEO will send out an invalidation message to all clients immediately, so all clients should see consistent session data | 17:25 |
| projekt01 | benji, I mean with shared with all ZEO clients | 17:26 |
| projekt01 | if the session data are not shared asap, it depends probably on which session persistent pattern your load balancer is using | 17:26 |
| benji | I don't think I understand the question. Since the session data are persistent objects, if a change to them is commited to the ZODB, all ZEO clients will be immediately be told to discard the old version of the session data. | 17:27 |
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| projekt01 | I think the session data container write session data to the ZODB only periodicaly, or not? | 17:28 |
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| projekt01 | otherwise we whould not need a session, we could use the principal annotation for store objects or properties??? | 17:29 |
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| projekt01 | benji, is there a difference in write data to ZODB and update objects in ZEO instances? | 17:32 |
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| benji | right, sessions are only checked to see if they have expired every so often, but if a user writes data to a session or explicitly removes it that change is seen by all clients immediately | 17:38 |
| * benji needs to concentrate on some work stuff now. Good luck DrogoNevets. | 17:38 | |
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| elro | Is there a way to supply build arguments when using zc.recipe.egg:custom? I'd like to build lxml with `python setup.py bdist_egg --static-deps` | 21:22 |
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