IRC log of #zope for Thursday, 2010-04-15

« Wednesday, 2010-04-14 Index Friday, 2010-04-16 »
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planetzopebotSoftware releases 5: isolation and repeatability with buildout (Reinout van Rees' weblog)  http://reinout.vanrees.org/weblog/2010/04/14/buildout.html01:04
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poincare101Wait, why are there so few people here? Isn't zope supposed to be like THE python web framework?04:47
TresEquispoincare101: cool[ kids hanging out in newer frameworks rooms04:47
TresEquisZope hasn't been cool since about 200504:47
TresEquisbut it still gets lots of work done04:47
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Omega_I've got what I suspect is a very common question...  Is there a good alternative library for indexing a zodb?18:02
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smhttps://code.launchpad.net/zopetoolkit .. very nice18:04
smOmega_: I don't think it's so common, at least I've never seen it asked :)18:04
Omega_:D18:05
Omega_I've been searching the past day for something other than zcatalog.  A few things have come up but are prohibitively complex...I'd almost rather do it in Java! ;(18:06
Omega_* ;)18:06
betabugwhat's the problem with zcatalog?18:08
moo---Omega_: like, mysql? :)18:08
moo---Omega_: we use ore.contentmirror to duplicate content to MySQL database for reporting18:09
Omega_zcatalog depends a lot on zope.18:09
Omega_Even reading the documentation, it mentions management interfaces offered only through zope.18:09
Omega_It also implies directories, which is a zope-ism, no?18:09
Omega_moo---: I'm thinking more for things like date range searches, or searches by email address.18:11
benjiOmega_: if you're not using much Zope stuff, but are using ZODB, I suggest doing the indexing yourself; decide what indexes you want, make a BTrees for each index, put the objects in the appropriate BTree18:11
benjiyou get less magical help that way, but on the other hand you get less magical help18:11
Omega_benji: I've considered that, it's not very hard is it?  Are there any good blog posts about doing this?18:11
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benjiat first you should just think of BTrees as acting a lot like dictionaries in Python; later you can come to appreciate how they keep their keys in sorted order and let you slice them in very helpful ways, etc.18:12
Omega_So is that simply done by maintaining keys off of my root object?  If so, how would I conduct say...a  date range search using a unix timestamp as a key?18:13
Omega_I can totally appreciate and see to the "index yourself" approach, because I can manage indexes per object, and not index things that don't need indexing.18:14
Omega_I guess learning the best practice for zodb is the challenge.18:15
Omega_(sorry, not per object, per class)18:15
* sm triggers an import of https://code.launchpad.net/~ztk-steering-group/zope.catalog/trunk .. nifty18:15
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benjiOmega_: http://svn.zope.org/repos/main/ZODB/trunk/src/BTrees/Interfaces.py will help you learn about BTrees18:16
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benjispecifically to your question, you can do .values(min=start_timestamp, max=stop_timestamp) and get back all the objects whos keys are in the desired range18:17
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Omega_benji: That's awesome.  Thank you very much for the help - especially considering some of it was of a more general nature.18:19
benjimy pleasure18:19
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moo---Omega_: you are using pure ZODB?18:27
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Omega_moo---: Hoping to.18:28
Omega_moo---: Going to use cherrypy and zodb18:28
moo---Omega_: this might interest you http://www.zopyx.com/blog/looking-beyond-ones-own-nose-looking-at-rabbitmq-and-mongodb18:29
Omega_Yeah, that's one of those document-oriented databases, right?  Similar to couch...18:30
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moo---Omega_: yup18:31
Omega_moo---: The real beauty in zodb for me is that I don't have to translate object references.18:32
Omega_moo---: I can operate off of an ever morphing graph and with indexing can search my way to any perspective and work from there.18:32
Omega_moo---: Zero redundancy and circular reference friendliy.18:32
Omega_*friendly18:32
Omega_Seems almost too good to be true.....18:33
smI think it gets a bit memory hungry when you want to scale up and have poor zodb cache locality18:34
Omega_Even using ZEO?18:34
smyes, but ZEO lets you throw even more ram at it, since you can add more machines18:35
Omega_Right, but individual machines running zodb will maintain local caches18:35
Omega_and preen them accordingly18:35
smreally, unlike me you'll probably have plenty of G of ram and there'll be no problem18:36
smI can't think of any other ZODB drawback, really!18:36
Omega_No, I appreciate a smart solution too.  I try to do more with less.18:36
smhaving to build your own query logic, I guess18:36
Omega_But, I was under the impression zodb was self aware to a certain degree...18:36
Omega_yeah, but that's a minor trade off if all I have to do is make some btrees...18:37
smoh wait, they are coming to me.. :)18:37
Omega_?18:37
smit's not so good in concurrent write situations.. you'll get conflicts and transactions retrying18:38
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smalso in heavy write situations, eg updating a hit counter, you'll get constant disk usage growth18:38
smbut I think there are add-ons to handle things like that18:40
smit's just not a native strength18:40
Omega_Mm...good to keep in mind.18:41
smyou can also write custom conflict handlers, which for many apps may make that problem go away18:42
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Omega_I guess those are things I'll have to address should it come to that.18:46
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loop29hi all19:05
loop29can someone help me with the acl_users module in zope?19:05
loop29i want to "decode" the passwords19:06
bigkevmcdI don't think you can19:07
loop29they all seem to be "hashed" or encoded and i would like to move the system on an other sysze,19:07
bigkevmcdit's a hash19:07
loop29yeah19:07
bigkevmcdhashes are one-way19:07
bigkevmcdor at least, in theory19:07
loop29do you knwo how do decode them?19:07
bigkevmcdthe only way is to brute-force 'em19:07
bigkevmcdgood luck :-)19:07
loop29haha19:08
loop29we have 1700 users ...19:08
loop29but there must be some "hash-key" or not?19:08
bigkevmcdno19:09
bigkevmcdthat's the point of it19:09
loop29puh...19:09
loop29but how can i migrate the system on .net now?19:10
loop29there must be some way?19:10
loop29can i just copy the table? :)19:10
bigkevmcdwhat is ".net now" ?19:10
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loop29we are developing the site on ms .net technology19:11
loop29so i have to migrate the users19:11
loop29from zope to ms sql19:11
loop29:(19:11
bigkevmcdit would be the same going the other way19:11
bigkevmcdhashes are one-way19:11
loop29boah, ok, thank you19:12
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