IRC log of #zope for Tuesday, 2010-06-15

TresEquistiwula: first try ensuring that the top-level object in your tempdb is a btree, rather than a PersistentMapping00:08
TresEquischeck out the 'container-class' config paramter to the mount00:11
TresEquisthe default value, 'Products.TemporaryFolder.TemporaryContainer' is a folder, which is conflict prone00:12
tiwulaYes - that is what I have.  I didn't change the default.00:13
TresEquisOr check out the 'faster' product, which is an alternate implementation00:13
tiwulawhat should I use as container-class in place of Products.TemporaryFolder.TemporaryContainer?00:13
TresEquisfor the alternate container-class00:15
TresEquisit won't have the pretty icon, but it won't kill you with conflicts00:15
tiwulaOK - I'll start with that.  Don't want too many dials moving at once....00:15
tiwulathen if that doesn't make a difference, I'll look at faster.00:16
tiwulathose are preferable to the partitioning strategy as a starting point....00:16
TresEquisactually, it probably doesn't help00:16
TresEquisthe 'container-class', I mean00:16
TresEquisbecause the 'session_data' object is in between00:17
tiwulaso - that will scuttle the benefit of the changed container-class?00:17
tiwulaso - have you used faster?00:19
TresEquisthe TransientObjectContainer is the culprit00:19
TresEquisheh, I wrote it (with mcdonc)00:19
TresEquiswe have used it successfully for customer sites in production00:19
TresEquisbut it has been a while (still running, never have to look at it kind of sites)00:19
TresEquisso long that I forgot why we wrote it in the first place00:20
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TresEquisyou do have to get the 'faster' object re-created on restarts, if you use the tempstorage00:24
tiwulathat's the same issue I'm dealing with on my current partitioning strategy00:31
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TresEquistiwula: except your app has to somehow know about the partitions in which to create the sessions00:36
TresEquisare you running load-balanced across appservers?00:37
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TresEquisIf not, try just mounting a normal filestorage at /temp_folder00:37
TresEquisyou can then make "sticky" changes inside it, like replacing the 'session_data' object with the one from faster00:37
TresEquisyou should be able to pack it on a different (more frequent, likely) schedule than your main filestorage00:38
mcdoncit bears noting that tiwula wants to reduce conflict errors because he has nontransactional code laying around which presumably does the wrong thing during a retry00:38
mcdonc(afaik, it's not a performance problem)00:39
TresEquisin that case, tiwula could try just changing the session_data_manager to point at a non-temp_data locatoin00:40
TresEquisand put the session_data_container there00:40
TresEquisI would probably rewrite the non-TXN code, though ;)00:41
mcdoncyeah, although i think he wants to stovepipe things so that he has multiple session_data_manager objects00:41
mcdonc(each pointing at a separate data container)00:41
mcdoncbut yeah, rewriting the non-txn code is sanest00:42
mcdonc is the only thing i know that documents how one might do this, although it requires too enough context to pull out of repozedom00:44
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planetzopebotZopeSkel 2.17 (PyPI recent updates)
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bitmonki'm trying to set up basic annotation to store latitude / longitude for geocoded addresses.  my base content adapts, and i am able to set and retrieve latitude / longitude attributes on the annotation, but they aren't persisted.  any idea why this would happen?04:12
bitmonkusing an IObjectModified handler to set lat/long based on textual address04:13
bitmonker IObjectModifiedEvent, that is04:13
bitmonkmy event handler runs and logs the result of geocoding both directly from the json, as well as from my annotation object.04:16
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deftunixhi all, some one have try to build a web vnc viewer with zope? exist documents about it?13:01
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MatthewWilkesdeftunix: You'd probably do that with java or flash on the client side13:12
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deftunixMatthewWilkes: ok, thanks13:22
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chaoflowMatthewWilkes: !13:59
chaoflowMatthewWilkes: can you help with committer access to - the committer agreement is filled out and I would send now to legal@zope.org14:00
MatthewWilkeschaoflow: I don't know the process very well, to be honest.  I've only gone through it once14:00
MatthewWilkeswell, twice.14:01
MatthewWilkesJust follow the instructions14:01
chaoflowMatthewWilkes: ah - sorry - just did - I was convinced I need a "supporter"14:05
MatthewWilkesI think you do14:11
MatthewWilkesWere you asking me?14:11
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chaoflowMatthewWilkes: yep - but it seems no supporter needed anymore - I just sent the form14:15
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chaoflowotherwise it would be great if you could support me14:15
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MatthewWilkeschaoflow: What form did you fill in? I just looked, section 2 is reference committer14:21
chaoflowMatthewWilkes: Committer Agreement14:22
MatthewWilkeschaoflow: at
chaoflowI followed:
MatthewWilkesSure, so that form has: 2. Reference committer. Please provide name and email address of an existing Committer who can vouch for you.14:24
MatthewWilkesSo, yeah, feel free.  I haven't committed much to Zope core recently, last thing was for 2.12.0.  "Matthew Wilkes" <>14:24
chaoflowjoj! - i took the first google hit, which is:
chaoflowdid not think that doubled archive is before the actual one14:25
chaoflowok - thanks14:26
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Charlie_XIt's the Charlie and Christian Show!18:00
Theuni1oh, you made it :)18:01
Charlie_X... and their sidekick AG! How are the teeth?18:01
agroszerno big issues18:01
agroszerdrill, fill done18:02
Theuni1ok, so lets go18:02
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Theuni1agroszer: did you receive the licenses yet?18:02
Theuni1who else was on that list?18:02
agroszerI could download a bunch of SW18:02
Theuni1did they get theirs as well?18:02
agroszerTres i smissing18:03
agroszerI think Sidnei was in the group18:03
agroszerbut no idea who else18:03
Theuni1i thought there were like 4 or 5 people who raised their hand18:03
agroszeryes, something like that18:04
agroszeri just don't know who they are18:04
Theuni1i'll make a call on the mailinglist18:04
agroszerit's valid for a year18:05
Theuni1good to know18:05
Theuni1we have to go through renewal after that_18:05
agroszerI guess18:05
agroszerunless the VS express works out18:05
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agroszerpersonally I don't really see why we asked for it, but if it's free...18:06
Theuni1which i hope, MSDN is really intended to allow us supporting 2.4 (and 2.5?)18:06
Theuni1the newer pythons should work fine with the express editions18:06
Theuni1so the winegg builder and the setup are in the works, right?18:07
agroszerumm, it should work with mingw3218:07
agroszerin fact mingw32 is 10 times easier to setup ;-)18:07
agroszerlet's talk about this next week18:08
agroszerI hope I can finish the egg building till that18:08
Theuni1it's supporting zope 2.7 then18:08
agroszerI'm not really insighted with zope 2.x18:09
Theuni1argh sorry18:09
Theuni1python 2.718:09
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agroszerI didn't include py 2.7 yet into the egg builder18:11
agroszerthere's no pywin32 yet for it, etc18:11
agroszerwe'll see...18:11
agroszernext topic?18:11
Theuni1sorry, got distracted :)18:12
Theuni1egg builder isn't the primary issue18:12
Theuni1the larger one is getting all the buildbots set up to do it18:12
Theuni1and then probably a concerted effort to fix issues18:12
agroszerbuildslaves are the next on my list18:13
Theuni1do you know how the ZTK holds up WRT to Python 2.7?18:13
Charlie_Xagroszer: there is pywin32 for Python 2.718:13
agroszerno idea, but even better question: how does the ZTK with py2.7 on win :-)18:14
Theuni1i think if the tests "mostly pass" then we can go ahead and proclaim that we want to support it and ask the buildbot maintainers to run python 2.7 as well18:14
Theuni1hanno raised it for zope 2.1318:14
agroszerCharlie_X, the setuptools is missing, my bad18:15
agroszerTheuni1, sure we ought to aim for py 2.7 compatibility18:15
Theuni1agroszer: setuptools doesn't work for 2.7?18:16
Charlie_XTheuni1: +1 I've run buildouts of my sites with Py 2.7 with no problems.18:16
agroszerI guess just the -py2.7.exe installer is missing18:16
agroszersomeone has to PJE18:16
Theuni1Charlie_X: ok, so that basically means we have to decide its time, right?18:16
Theuni1the small group of us can't do that, so i guess we need to bring this up on the mailinglist18:17
Theuni1does that include dropping support for 2.4?18:17
Theuni1(and we're talking about ZTK packages, right?)18:17
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Charlie_XWell, RestrictedPython needs to be done for 2.7 but, yes I think we just need to decide to do it.18:17
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Theuni1that's a zope 2 issue18:17
Theuni1i so much desire a global page for all of the projects to have a common baseline of agreements18:17
agroszerdropping support in ZTK riples then through the others too18:17
agroszerbut I also don't mind skipping py2.418:18
agroszerit's ancient18:18
Charlie_XWe have set an end of life for 2.4 and by implication 2.518:18
Theuni1i think the actual fuzziness currently comes from "what set of software do we talk about"18:18
Theuni1Charlie_X: do you know where we documented that?18:19
Charlie_XIn one of our meetings. I think you weren't there. I'll check18:19
Theuni1next topic18:20
* agroszer just kicked the distutils-sig to do a py2.7 setuptools18:20
Theuni1tomorrow's a bug day18:20
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Theuni1we had quite a set of subscribers for tomorrow18:20
Charlie_XI can't make it, unfortunately.18:21
dataflakecan yoou repeat the URL?18:21
Theuni1dataflake: which one?18:21
agroszerohh, hey Jens18:21
dataflakeTheuni1: bug day signup or list18:21
dataflakehi adam :-)18:21
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agroszerdataflake, I got distracted about the index page of download.zope.org18:21
agroszermaybe we can clear that here and now18:22
dataflakeagroszer: it's there now, is that what you wanted?18:22
agroszerthe point is that I wasn't the one who brought this up18:22
agroszerI was just the postman ;-)18:23
dataflakethe other point is that it's not my site ;-)18:23
Theuni1glory :)18:23
Theuni1dataflake: you're kidnapping our talk about the bug day :)18:23
* agroszer shuts up18:23
dataflakeTheuni1: sorry, go ahead :)18:23
Theuni1ok, so i'd like us to be able to look back on bug days and see where we're making progress18:23
Theuni1any ideas?18:23
Theuni1Charlie_X: i still need to deploy your script for the languishing bugs18:24
Theuni1do you think the API could help with getting information about what happened on a specific date?18:24
dataflakeTheuni1: tag solved issues with a specific date?18:24
Theuni1dataflake: i'm hoping for something that can extract data without having to manually tag stuff. i know myself that i forget about it. and it also is inconvenient for people who just come by once or twice.18:25
Theuni1if we could list all changes from a specific date without tagging that would be awesome18:25
Theuni1closed isn't necessarily the only thing that's interesting18:25
agroszersomethign like ohloh's timeline18:25
Theuni1triaging etc. could be as well18:25
Theuni1agroszer: yeah, or like redmines18:25
Theuni1i was thinking about just using the overview on the project gruop18:26
Theuni1and take a snapshot before/after18:26
Theuni1but that's a bit ambiguous18:26
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Theuni1maybe it's sufficient18:27
Theuni1like the numbers on the right of this page:18:27
Charlie_XTheuni1: Python < 2.5 will be dropped by ZTK 1.1 or 2010-12-31 at the latest
agroszerif the result is a list ordered by date18:27
Theuni1Charlie_X: thanks. cool.18:27
agroszerthen it should work18:27
dataflakeTheuni1: you would have to visit several projects and snapshot that page18:27
dataflakepeople work on stuff other than ZTK18:28
Theuni1meh :)18:28
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Theuni1another option would be to ask all the committers that participate in a bug day to send a short mail18:28
Charlie_XTheuni I don't think I understand your request for the script to change.18:28
Theuni1summarizing what they did18:28
Theuni1Charlie_X: no script change requested, just information about the API inquired18:28
dataflakeTheuni1: i wouldn't mind doing that18:28
Theuni1getting human feedback might even be more valuable18:29
Theuni1I think I'll just write a mail right now inviting for the bug day tomorrow and inviting to send a summary mail from everyone who participated18:29
dataflakegood enough i'd say18:29
Theuni1we'll see how that works out18:29
Theuni1time's mostly up again18:29
Theuni1dataflake, agroszer: if you want to talk about the index page again ... :)18:29
Charlie_XI don't think you can query by date.18:30
Theuni1Charlie_X: k. alright.18:30
agroszerI'm good with the index page18:30
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dataflakeagroszer: cool. i can always put in something fancier (static!) if someone provides it18:31
* agroszer is still not sure that I raised this issue18:31
* Charlie_X is sure agroszer did18:31
dataflakeagroszer emailed me abut it ;-)18:31
agroszerif someones not happy with it, he may talk18:31
agroszerguilty unless prooved innocent18:31
dataflakeagroszer is guilty of not sending his foundation application, too ;-)18:32
agroszergotta scan it18:32
dataflakei'm kidding, i was just wondering because you never replied to my email18:32
dataflakeno hurry18:32
Theuni1guilty unless proved very guilty18:32
Charlie_Xguilty by public demand18:33
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* Charlie_X notes that his DZUG application has never been acknowledged.18:33
Theuni1did you pay?18:33
dataflakeTheuni1 does nothing without payment :-P18:34
Charlie_XPretty sure I did.18:34
* Theuni1 writes an invoice to the ZF for the weekly meetings18:34
* Charlie_X is also known as Dogbert18:34
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* agroszer looks for a scanner18:36
agroszerdataflake, you need all pages scanned?18:36
dataflakeagroszer: yes please. make sure you write clearly so I can read it :-)18:36
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agroszerI forgot to fill the PDF18:37
agroszerI'll dump the details as text into the mail18:37
agroszerhey ccomb18:37
dataflakeagroszer: you can fax to the ZF number if that's more convenient, but that's a US number18:37
agroszerI'll scan18:39
Charlie_XTheuni1: Maybe people could prefix commits with a bugday tag to help monitor stuff?18:39
dataflakeCharlie_X: the commits are not so interesting. bug status changes or action on bugs is interesting.18:40
agroszerccomb, could you check the KGS 3.4.1 buildslave18:40
agroszersomething is wrong there as I noted per email18:40
ccombagroszer: I'll try check that, I'm not available at all these days18:41
ccombI've not even had time to check mail18:41
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agroszerccomb, I'm also rather busy these days18:42
* Charlie_X is refreshingly consistently lazy18:42
dataflakejoin the club18:43
Charlie_XSounds like too much work18:44
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Charlie_XSounds like we're done18:45
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_mup_Bug #122260 was filed: Test system says "Too mant positional arguments" <test-system> <BlueBream:New> <Launchpad Foundations:Triaged> <zope.testing:Fix Released> <Zope 3:Won't Fix> <>19:28
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j-whi ccomb21:01
ccombj-w hi21:01
j-wno hannosch yet21:01
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ccombI'm reading the list, I'm only back on 3 june....21:02
ccombI've not even had time to work on my branch21:02
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hannoschhi there21:02
j-waha hannosch21:02
ccombhannosch: hi21:02
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hannoschare the last meeting notes ok? -
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j-wand these:
* hannosch has unstable wifi - might drop out for short moments21:04
j-wI forgot to add the latest notes to the index.rst21:05
j-wI'm doing so now21:05
j-wso they show up in the TOC21:05
hannoschah, ok21:05
j-wyou fixed typos I saw :)21:05
j-wand actually worked on ZTK docs21:05
j-wI only made a little progress on "under-review" packages21:06
hannoschI didn't do much for the last time, so I thought I had to do something this time :)21:06
j-wI just mailed you guys a short report on that21:06
j-wI could take notes now again if you want to21:06
j-whopefully with less typos...21:06
hannoschj-w: please do, you are awesome :)21:06
j-wwait, let me take note ot *that* ;)21:07
hannoschok, so meeting notes for "ZTK meeting - 2010-06-01" are ok with me21:07
hannoschccomb: you agree on the last notes?21:08
ccombyes I do21:08
j-wwhere do we start21:08
j-wccomb has not had the chance yet to work on the ztk "remove extra.cfg"21:09
j-wI made only little progress in reviewing "under-review"21:09
hannoschright. anything new on build slaves?21:09
j-whannosch worked on the ztk documentation21:09
j-wnot on the 64-bit front, no21:09
j-wthe test-report of the other platforms are coming in21:10
j-wand I even see people responding to them21:10
j-wwhich is great21:10
hannoschright. I think the testing front is good and under control21:10
hannoschyou guys had a chance to read ?21:10
j-wI did21:11
j-wI didn't see anything suprising21:11
j-wto me it is fairly clear21:11
hannoschok, but the two of us agreed before, so I'm more interested in ccomb's opinion ;)21:11
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ccomblook like what we agreed21:12
hannoschcool :)21:12
hannoschwe can always refine it21:13
hannoschcan we conclude this point and mark it as done?21:13
ccombfinished rread21:14
* hannosch loves closing tasks :)21:14
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j-wI can see two things we need to finish before we can think of a fist alpha:21:14
j-w1) finish the review of the "under review" sections in ztk21:15
j-w2) remove the "extras"21:15
j-wand then of course the tests should still pass on the platforms we want them to21:15
hannoschindeed. shall we talk about the under-review first?21:15
j-wdo I miss anything here?21:15
j-was I mailed you guys, zope.file and zope.html seem both fixable but not very fundamental21:16
hannoschI'd agree with j-w on both zope.file and zope.html - they just happen to be named zope.* but aren't essential to the ZTK21:16
j-wok, i'll try to remove them then21:16
j-wand see what breaks21:16
j-wI don't think grok depends on them either21:17
j-wdoes BB?21:17
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ccombsince there is no code in bb, there is no real hard dependencies21:17
j-wI'll continue this review for  the other packages21:18
hannoschok, cool21:19
hannoschso what about ccomb's branch and the refactoring? anything we can do to help?21:19
ccombI've not had time :(21:19
j-wcan we help somehow?21:20
ccombI needed just to change the lists in the cfg file21:20
ccombyou can just rename my branch and work on it if you want21:20
ccombor copy it, as you like21:20
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hannoschwell. when do you think you have time for it?21:20
j-wcan't we work in the ztk trunk?21:20
ccombwe can but it might break some buildbots21:21
j-whmm ,yeah21:21
ccombI can find some time this WE21:21
hannoschok, that would be good21:22
hannoschif you mail us when it's done, we can both have a look and maybe one of us can merge it to trunk21:22
* ccomb setting an alarm21:22
hannoschI have time this weekend as well21:22
j-wmy time is somewhat limited this week21:23
j-wbut I think I can continue the review and have more results for next week's meeting21:24
hannoschno problem, so the plan is for ccomb to do the initial work and I take it and merge it to trunk21:24
hannoschj-w continues to do package reviews21:24
hannoschsounds like we all have something to do :)21:24
ccomband I also have a buildbot plugged on this branch21:24
ccombsupposed to try to do the automatic release21:25
j-whave we ever talked about a target date for an alpha?21:25
hannoschI thought asap - and when we are ready21:25
j-wa little bit OT but are you guys coming to EP?21:26
hannoschI'm still not decided - might go there, but haven't booked anything yet21:26
hannoschso far the talks alone didn't sound all too exciting21:26
ccombep ?21:27
hannoschin birmingham again21:27
ccombah ok21:27
ccombnot planned21:27
j-wI would love to have some concrete ztk results before EP21:28
hannoschj-w: so are you going to be there?21:28
j-wI realise that's really up to us of course21:28
j-whannosch: yes I will21:28
j-wI didn't make it last year21:28
hannoschah ok. that gives me a reason to go too :)21:28
j-wbut wanted to go to an EP again21:28
j-wnice :-)21:28
j-wjanjaap will be there too21:28
j-wand we're dragging another collegue there as well :)21:28
j-wuhm, do we have points left?21:29
j-wbeside planning the next meeting?21:29
hannoschdon't think so21:29
hannoschif you guys haven't seen, I have posted some plans for the next Zope 2 release - based on a ZTK release I hope21:30
ccombI'm trying to convince myself to go to EP21:30
j-wI did read them indeed21:30
ccombI probably can21:30
hannoschalpha is next week, beta in september and final sometime october or so21:30
j-wit looked like the plans landed quite well, right?21:30
j-whow's that release "depending" on a ztk release?21:30
ccombhannosch: do you also have any approximative date for plone4?21:30
hannoschj-w: I hope I can have some direct "extends =" in there21:31
j-wusing a specific revision in the repo?21:31
j-wlike grok?21:31
hannoschand say Zope 2.13 depends on ZTK 1.0 conceptually21:31
j-wok, cool21:32
ccombok it would be great21:32
j-wI definitely want a ztk before september ;)21:32
hannoschright now it's still its own copy of the versions.cfg21:32
hannoschonce the ccomb-branch lands, I'll change that21:32
hannoschccomb: Plone 4 is late late beta. I'd expect a final sometime in the summer21:33
hannoschthat will use Zope 2.12.x and not the ZTK directly21:33
j-wI'll make note of the zope2 release plans and its relation to the ztk in the minutes21:33
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hannoschcool. any plans from your sides for releases in the next few months?21:33
hannoschI'm not following the grok-dev and bb-dev lists, so I have no clue :)21:34
j-wthe grok-1.1.1 release went quite well21:34
j-wnext up is 1.2 work21:34
j-wwhich will not be small21:35
j-wand we need some more manpower there21:35
hannoschok. that is more work on the "less" stuff, right?21:35
j-wwe got a long way21:35
ccombhopefully bb can be released *after* ztk, but it depends on baijum's roadmap21:36
j-wmost of the work is migrating tests based on and files21:36
hannoschok, so do you want to release once there's no left or time-based? as in: in 6 months?21:36
ccombhannosch: for the major version?21:36
hannoschthat was meant for j-w21:36
hannoschsorry :)21:36
ccombah grok21:36
j-wit is a bit of a hybrid - we do not want to delay for too long just waiting for to disappear21:36
j-wso there could very well be a 1.2 that still has some remnants left21:37
j-wintroducing's features in tests for example21:37
hannoschj-w: ok. sounds logical. at some point it's going to be "good enough" and a release will make sense21:37
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j-wbut there's also grok-feature that live on branches that need to be merged21:37
j-wa good-enough release indeed :)21:38
j-wthere's _a lot of work_ to be done still21:38
j-wthe grok community should try another dedicated grok sprint...21:38
hannoschccomb: could you try to find out what BB's roadmap is like? just a rough idea about when the 1.0 final is planned?21:38
j-wshall we plan the next meeting? next week?21:39
hannoschyep. planning next week sounds good21:39
ccombmmmh, looks like bb should already be released :P21:40
hannoschccomb: yeah, you are still at beta 1 according to the homepage21:40
ccombb1 yes21:41
j-wwould 06/22 20:00 sound ok to you?21:41
hannoschj-w: works for me21:41
ccomba1 ?21:41
j-wor rather just before the weekly zope-dev meeting?21:41
ccomboh meeting21:41
ccombnot available on 21 to 2421:42
hannoschwhat about Friday 25?21:42
j-w20:00 would work on friday21:42
ccombI'm ok on 25 but before 18:0021:43
ccombin the morning?21:43
hannoschI'm flexible. only 12:30 - 13:30 is bad21:43
j-wI usually have some time in the morning on fridays, but I cannot be very excact about a time...21:44
j-wand monday 21?21:44
ccombnot me21:44
j-wah, sorry yes21:44
ccombactually it depends if I'm in a hotel with wifi21:45
ccombI don't know yet21:45
hannoschI can arrange time at almost all days and all times, so the two of you need to find a spot :)21:45
j-wok, proposal21:45
j-wwe keep each other updated about progress21:46
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j-wand see if we can arrange for a meeting next week depending on wifi in the hotel of ccomd21:46
hannoschfine with me21:46
ccombok, I tell you about the branch update on saturday21:46
j-welse we keep each other posted by mail and meet up on tue 2921:46
ccombthen I'll see on monday evening if I can connect21:47
j-wthanks guys!21:47
hannoschgreat, thanks much!21:47
ccombthanks too, bye!21:48
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