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| philiKON | srichter, wow, dude, what happened to the add menu? | 00:25 |
|---|---|---|
| philiKON | constraints out of wack? | 00:25 |
| srichter | I know; I saw it too | 00:27 |
| srichter | I have to look at it | 00:27 |
| srichter | but I have right now other changes on my checkout, so it has to wait a few hours | 00:28 |
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| philiKON | that's ok | 00:30 |
| philiKON | i actually just realized it when reading your lines from above | 00:30 |
| philiKON | s/when/after/ | 00:30 |
| srichter | I dunno what happened, but it has probably to do with adding the layer attribute to menus | 00:31 |
| philiKON | either that, or submenus | 00:31 |
| philiKON | weird that no test is catching on | 00:32 |
| srichter | I doubt it is sub-menus; they just did not miss with that | 00:32 |
| srichter | no kidding! | 00:32 |
| philiKON | also, ever since somebody messed with the CSS, the blue action bar is totally messed up | 00:33 |
| philiKON | it's only half-way blue | 00:33 |
| srichter | mmh, not for me | 00:33 |
| philiKON | hmm, we only have had 1 database schema evolvement? i would have thought that we had more than once zodb-relevant changes | 00:34 |
| philiKON | srichter, browser? | 00:34 |
| srichter | Konqui | 00:34 |
| philiKON | ah, hmm | 00:34 |
| philiKON | i'm using firefox 1.0 | 00:34 |
| srichter | I think we need to have a second generation; oh well | 00:35 |
| philiKON | that's ok | 00:36 |
| philiKON | it's better to have 10 small generations than one big one | 00:36 |
| srichter | that's easy said for easy refactorings | 00:37 |
| srichter | as it turned out I could not leave earlier generations alone when I did my CA cleanups | 00:37 |
| philiKON | hmm | 00:37 |
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| philiKON | well, small atomic generations should make life easier | 00:38 |
| philiKON | because you only have to worry about getting from n to n+1 | 00:38 |
| srichter | not if many changed are interrelated | 00:39 |
| philiKON | that's true | 00:40 |
| philiKON | but i thought there had been more atomic changes | 00:40 |
| philiKON | didn't realize the CA cleanup was interwoven with other stuff | 00:40 |
| srichter | well, it was interwoven with itself | 00:41 |
| srichter | due to the substantial changes, the previous generation code did not work anymore | 00:41 |
| philiKON | ah, that makes sensee | 00:44 |
| philiKON | anyway, gotta get back to studies | 00:44 |
| srichter | see ya | 00:44 |
| srichter | have fun | 00:44 |
| philiKON | uu2 | 00:45 |
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| philiKON | srichter, btw, that new introspector view is pretty cool, but it is different from the old one in two things: | 01:08 |
| philiKON | a) it doesn't look at the object instance itself anymore | 01:08 |
| philiKON | b) it isn't an objectview anymore, so it doesnt' get the skin beautification | 01:08 |
| philiKON | i think a) might even be an advantage, though we might decide to need it again later | 01:08 |
| philiKON | however, i think b) will sooner or later be necessary | 01:09 |
| philiKON | just for user-friendliness | 01:09 |
| srichter | well, rotterdam does not have the CSS facilities setup to give a decent view | 01:09 |
| srichter | once it does, it can be done | 01:09 |
| srichter | all the pieces that are used are macros, so they are easily reusable | 01:09 |
| philiKON | what do you mean? can't that apidoc view be inside a @@standard_templates/page? | 01:10 |
| srichter | if you do not want to use the macros, you can at least use the new public apidoc API for introspection | 01:10 |
| srichter | well, only if you write a separate view or use an iframe | 01:10 |
| srichter | apidoc does not use the rotterdam skin | 01:10 |
| philiKON | well, @@standard_templates/page doesn't mean "use rotterdam skin" | 01:11 |
| philiKON | it means: be a page | 01:11 |
| philiKON | what that means is up to the traverser | 01:11 |
| srichter | well, that would require it to be a separate view | 01:11 |
| srichter | right now the new introspector tab is just a redirector | 01:11 |
| philiKON | so, it couldn't be both a page in apidoc and elsewhere? | 01:11 |
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| philiKON | ah, redirector to the class's apidoc page i presume | 01:12 |
| philiKON | i understand what you mean then | 01:12 |
| srichter | the redirector gets the class and generates the appropriate apidoc URL | 01:12 |
| philiKON | yah, got that just now | 01:12 |
| philiKON | ok, we migh tneed a new page then | 01:12 |
| philiKON | that takes the bits and pieces that are already there | 01:12 |
| srichter | sure, it won't be me though | 01:12 |
| philiKON | i know | 01:13 |
| srichter | I hate the introspector tab :-) | 01:13 |
| philiKON | i wish it could be me | 01:13 |
| philiKON | :) | 01:13 |
| philiKON | i think for the purpose of information and a quick entry to the apidoc tool it's great | 01:13 |
| philiKON | it's a great way of seeing what interfaces a particular object provides | 01:13 |
| philiKON | TTW | 01:13 |
| srichter | honestly, I have never wanted to know that :-) | 01:13 |
| srichter | it seems to be a uyseful tab, but I wonder how often it is used | 01:14 |
| philiKON | well, you and i read code. other people don't | 01:14 |
| philiKON | but i guess the redirector for now is fine | 01:14 |
| srichter | that was my thought | 01:14 |
| philiKON | given the extra mile we'd have to go | 01:14 |
| srichter | :-) | 01:14 |
| srichter | right | 01:15 |
| philiKON | never mind then | 01:15 |
| * philiKON gets back to Landau/Lifschitz | 01:15 | |
| srichter | uuh, which one? | 01:15 |
| philiKON | first and second one | 01:15 |
| srichter | I am working with the fluid dynamics one right now | 01:15 |
| philiKON | ah | 01:15 |
| philiKON | Hydrodynamics it's called in german | 01:15 |
| srichter | I see | 01:16 |
| srichter | these are really awesome books | 01:16 |
| srichter | these guys were great | 01:16 |
| philiKON | hell yes | 01:16 |
| philiKON | i've never seen a cleaner, shorter and yet scrutinizable description of theoretical problems | 01:16 |
| srichter | philiKON: do you know how to retract a checkin? | 01:26 |
| jdz | I don't believe you can with subversion. You can only check in with the changes reversed to effectly "undo" it... | 01:31 |
| srichter | ok | 01:34 |
| philiKON | right | 01:47 |
| philiKON | do an svn merge -r n:n-1 where n is the revision you want to undo | 01:48 |
| philiKON | srichter, wow, the english landau/lifshitzes are insanely expensive. i bought my german ones (the nice red hardcover with golden letters) for 18 euros each (used but they look like they've never been touched)... i guess it's because they were cheap to buy back in the GDR :) | 01:51 |
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| srichter | philiKON: I paid 60 bucks for mine | 02:37 |
| philiKON | right | 02:38 |
| philiKON | srichter, btw, i'm thinking about bying the jackson (E&M) just for reference... how do you like that book? | 02:44 |
| srichter | it is very good | 02:44 |
| srichter | same style as Landau & Lifshitz | 02:45 |
| srichter | precise and to the point | 02:45 |
| srichter | sometimes doing the math yourself from one step to another is very involved | 02:45 |
| philiKON | with Landau i've actually managed to keep up with that pretty well (people warned me that it was very hard with L&L) | 02:46 |
| philiKON | i've only need paper once or twice while working through mechanics | 02:46 |
| srichter | Jackson is the standard E&M text in graduate school in the states | 02:47 |
| philiKON | yes, i know | 02:48 |
| philiKON | our prof here said "it's the bible" :) | 02:48 |
| srichter | yes it is | 02:48 |
| philiKON | *gasp* it costs 82 euros at amazon.de | 02:50 |
| srichter | yep, costs the same here | 02:51 |
| srichter | you should also get Goldstein | 02:51 |
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| srichter | which is the bible for mechanics | 02:51 |
| philiKON | i think i'm fine with L&L | 02:53 |
| philiKON | to be honest, i wonder how much i'll need mechanics and E&M literature after these exams | 02:53 |
| philiKON | i already have L&L and Nolting (german author) on both | 02:53 |
| philiKON | but i guess it couldn't hurt having the two U.S. "bibles" in my library | 02:58 |
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| srichter | philiKON: aehm, I need mechanics all the time | 03:41 |
| srichter | a lot of fluid dynamcis problems are based on that material | 03:41 |
| philiKON | srichter, true | 03:42 |
| philiKON | i can also imagine that you need stuff like oscillations all the time late ron | 03:42 |
| philiKON | and of course, hamilton mechanics are a very corner stone of quantum mechanics | 03:43 |
| philiKON | i've decided to have my parents give them to me for my birthday which is coming up next week :) | 03:43 |
| philiKON | 60 euros each is kinda expensive | 03:43 |
| philiKON | :) | 03:43 |
| philiKON | but i wanna have 'em | 03:43 |
| philiKON | *grin* | 03:43 |
| srichter | :-) | 03:43 |
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| projekt01 | PlacefulSetup, if I call zapi.getSiteManager(context) I get the local site manager. If the context is a child of the local site manager, I get the global site manager. | 13:58 |
| projekt01 | That's not nice. | 13:59 |
| projekt01 | Hm, I think we have o provide a adapter for SiteManagementFolders providing | 13:59 |
| projekt01 | zope.component.interfaces.ISiteManager | 13:59 |
| projekt01 | Right? | 13:59 |
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| philiKON | projekt01, i think we shouldn't use placefulsetup anymore | 14:12 |
| projekt01 | Why? | 14:12 |
| philiKON | dunno, jim said so | 14:12 |
| philiKON | i'd like to know myself | 14:12 |
| philiKON | :) | 14:12 |
| projekt01 | Yes, I heard that, but I don't know why? But in some usecase I see no other way for to write tests.....? | 14:13 |
| philiKON | i guess it's ok to use it | 14:14 |
| philiKON | but you might have to beautify later :) | 14:14 |
| projekt01 | I hope, I have many of them in the Tiks ;-( | 14:14 |
| projekt01 | I think it's not a problem of the setup, I think it' a problem of a missing adapter. | 14:15 |
| projekt01 | I'm not able to get the site manager if I call the zali.getSiteManager(child of site manager) | 14:16 |
| projekt01 | Zali = zapi | 14:16 |
| projekt01 | This call returns the global site manager | 14:16 |
| projekt01 | Could be a problem in the SiteManagerAdapter where should return the site manager | 14:18 |
| philiKON | yeah, looks like a missing adapter | 14:18 |
| projekt01 | Could be, I'll take a look | 14:20 |
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| projekt01 | Ups, it was my fault, I had a wrong test setup | 14:34 |
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| mgedmin | fyi, changes in issue 339 broke schoolbell's functional tests and css styling | 15:45 |
| mgedmin | we'll cope, but I just wanted to give you a heads-up | 15:45 |
| mgedmin | (<div class="error"> was changed to <span class="error"> and moved above the widget itself rather than below) | 15:45 |
| srichter | yes, it caused me a lot of troubles fixing the tests too | 15:59 |
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| srichter | I hope the changes are good :-) | 15:59 |
| srichter | mgedmin: if you don't like them, we can back them out, but Philip spent some time tweaking it, so I am hopeful he improved things :-) | 16:00 |
| mgedmin | don't bother, I'll just define my own widget_macros.pt | 16:04 |
| mgedmin | I already use some customized macros for checkbox widgets | 16:05 |
| mgedmin | and adding extra text (e..g units) to the right of the widget | 16:05 |
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| mgedmin | it will be better to define these custom macros in @@form_macros rather than @@standard_macros | 16:05 |
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| srichter | yeah, my philosphy is just to not get involved in fixing rotterdam | 16:24 |
| srichter | every time I touch it I break something | 16:24 |
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| * SteveA continues his eeevil campaign to get the ZMI removed from zope3 | 16:26 | |
| * d2m supports SteveA | 16:26 | |
| Damascene | the gui interface? | 16:26 |
| SteveA | yes | 16:27 |
| SteveA | it should totally be an utterly separate add-on | 16:27 |
| SteveA | so should the zodb | 16:27 |
| Damascene | but isn't zope3 heavily integrated into both of those things you jsut mentioend? | 16:27 |
| SteveA | there is too much code in zope3 that makes assumptions that both things are there. | 16:27 |
| SteveA | zope3 shouldn't be so heavily integrated into both those things. that wasn't the intent of zope3. | 16:28 |
| Damascene | yeah i'd have liked it if the storage system transparently wrote out into sql or zodb... etc. | 16:28 |
| SteveA | i'm not saying that they aren't important | 16:28 |
| d2m | SteveA: would you think at least default layer is necessary ? | 16:28 |
| SteveA | but, they shouldn't be "core" because they encourage dependency | 16:28 |
| Damascene | yeah but isn't it too late now? | 16:29 |
| Damascene | books are written out, etc... | 16:29 |
| SteveA | d2m: I'd like it if when you start up zope3 without having installed the ZMI product, you get nothing. 404 on every page. | 16:29 |
| d2m | SteveA: same here | 16:29 |
| SteveA | Damascene: there's always ZopeX 3.x where x is sufficiently high | 16:29 |
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| Damascene | 3.99 ? :) | 16:29 |
| SteveA | I'd use Zope 4.04 | 16:30 |
| Damascene | haha | 16:30 |
| * SteveA stops his eeevil rant | 16:30 | |
| Damascene | i guess i see your point though | 16:30 |
| Damascene | and how come it's so evil it requires three es? :) | 16:30 |
| * mgedmin sniffs the <eventlog> zconfig directive | 16:31 | |
| philiKON | SteveA, the idea of promoting z3 as a pure framework is attractive | 16:38 |
| philiKON | even when talking about zope.app as the application server | 16:38 |
| philiKON | however, people will want some GUI to play with | 16:38 |
| philiKON | not everyone likes reading interfaces before doing something else | 16:38 |
| SteveA | philiKON: i'm not all that bothered how it is promoted. i am bothered that various zope3 infrastructure is coupled to the zodb and the gui. | 16:38 |
| philiKON | hmm | 16:39 |
| SteveA | it should be easy to add the zmi -- just a line of zcml or a single package include. | 16:39 |
| philiKON | right | 16:39 |
| SteveA | it can even be shipped with that enabled by default | 16:39 |
| SteveA | but, when developing, it should be an add-on | 16:39 |
| philiKON | so, what, for you, *is* the zmi? | 16:39 |
| SteveA | i want to encourage many guis, not emphasise the zmi | 16:39 |
| SteveA | to me, the zmi is a kind of experimental pseudo zope2 thing | 16:40 |
| philiKON | is @@contents.html the zmi? is ++etc++site/@@SomeView the zmi? | 16:40 |
| philiKON | yeah, that's probably a good characterization. but i meant physically | 16:40 |
| philiKON | i'd like to know what you want to "rip" out or at least decouple | 16:40 |
| SteveA | like i said, in the bare configuration, i want to see 404 on every page. | 16:41 |
| philiKON | i'm trying to understand what that means | 16:41 |
| philiKON | do you also want objectviews to disappear? | 16:41 |
| philiKON | meaning, container's @@contents.html view? | 16:42 |
| SteveA | if you have a container and it is traversable to, then i guess it can have an @@contents.html view | 16:43 |
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| SteveA | but, i'm not sure how useful that is for most applications | 16:43 |
| SteveA | sounds like a zmi "i want to manage objects through the web" kind of thing | 16:43 |
| philiKON | yes | 16:43 |
| philiKON | problem with the zmi righ tnow is that the objectviews are defined everywhere | 16:44 |
| philiKON | one way of disabling the zmi would be the new zcml:condition | 16:44 |
| philiKON | we introduce a feature "zmi" that can turned on or off | 16:44 |
| SteveA | or, make the views all on a "zmi" layer | 16:44 |
| SteveA | and only mark that layer on the request for url paths where you want to use it | 16:45 |
| SteveA | or, compose your layer using the zmi layer when you want that | 16:45 |
| philiKON | well, only include the zmi layer in skins you want to be based on the zmi | 16:45 |
| philiKON | right | 16:45 |
| philiKON | exactly | 16:45 |
| philiKON | the rule of thumb would be "if your view is registered in zmi_views or zmi_actions menus, it should be in the 'zmi' layer" | 16:46 |
| mgedmin | aha! | 16:48 |
| mgedmin | error: (32, 'Broken pipe') | 16:48 |
| mgedmin | the scary traceback on 303 redirects appears in plain zope 3 too! | 16:48 |
| mgedmin | so it is not a problem with my logger configuration | 16:48 |
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| srichter | can anyone here point me to som efree code on how to realize DHTML menus? | 17:09 |
| mgedmin | srichter, quirksmode.org pehaps? or try looking in http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=FrontPage | 17:09 |
| srichter | thanks | 17:10 |
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| jhauser_ | srichter: coolmenus.dhtmlcentral.com | 19:24 |
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| jhauser_ | oh it's down ... nevermind | 19:25 |
| srichter | its ok | 19:30 |
| srichter | I figured it out | 19:30 |
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| srichter | jhauser_: see http://130.64.83.191:8080/%40%40menudemo.html | 19:31 |
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| jhauser_ | nice :-) | 19:33 |
| srichter | thanks; unfortunately I do not know enough CSS to make it really nice | 19:39 |
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| mgedmin | where in ZMI could I find a form with validation? | 21:10 |
| mgedmin | I'd like to see how error messages look after the last restructuring | 21:11 |
| srichter | mgedmin: I could not find one either ;-) | 21:32 |
| mgedmin | I found it: dmo widgets -> add int widget -> leave all fields empty | 21:32 |
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| srichter | trying | 21:56 |
| srichter | I am not sure this is an improvement; oh well | 21:58 |
| * mgedmin doesn't like the way errors look now | 22:06 | |
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| srichter | I don't like the labels either | 22:23 |
| srichter | it is much harder to read | 22:23 |
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