IRC log of #zope3-dev for Monday, 2005-04-25

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jbb666trying to access an attribute on my class from a view I got ForbiddenAttribute... how do I enable access to this particular method? Sometihng in ZCML??06:10
jbb666ahhh... <allow attributes=""> does the trick06:16
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* VladDrac bought a zope3 book!12:50
VladDrac(unfortunately, srichters book was sold out (which is good news as well of course)12:51
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srichtermkerrin: now I am ready to chat with you :-)15:25
mkerrinstrichter: just got file upload working which is pretty much every thing I need at the moment15:29
srichterdoes it work in active and passive mode?15:29
mkerrinseems to, you mean active = data channel set up with PORT command15:30
mkerrinthen yes15:30
srichteractive means that it does not open a separate connection15:31
srichterpassive: a new connection on a different port is creeted15:31
mkerrinah - active state then probable won't work.15:33
srichtercan you test it?15:33
mkerrinI will try now.15:34
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srichterMacYET: hi15:42
MacYETno panic, no questions today :)15:42
srichterMacYET: I am panicing, because this means you are not working with Z3 today. ;-)15:43
MacYETi am currently fine15:45
srichteryipee :-)15:45
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mkerrinsrichter: active does seem to work but I have found out that multiple uploads is a bit shaky - it just hangs - another problem to fix15:47
srichterI remember having this problem too, when I rewrote ZServer's FTP server15:48
srichterit has something to do with getting the server back into the correct state15:48
* MacYET looks at stealing the i18n machinery15:49
mkerrinok - I will double check that15:51
mkerrinI have a patch against twisted.protocols.ftp I am about to send to the twisted guys - this is why I didn't upload the code yesterday15:52
mkerrinhas a lot of FTP commands that modify the filesystem aren't implemented in twisted.15:53
srichterMacYET: what part for which project? :-)15:54
srichtermkerrin: make a twisted bug report15:55
SteveAi'm using the zope3 ftp server in production15:55
srichterSteveA: yeah, ZServer's FTP server was pretty solid15:55
SteveAhowever, i had to make some modifications in the channel/server subclasses i use15:55
MacYETsrichter: replacement for placelesstranslationservice15:55
SteveAthere are bugs open on these15:55
srichterSteveA: we are talking about twisted integration15:56
SteveAas it gives up on long uploads / downloads15:56
SteveAthe reason i persisted with the zserver one is that the twisted ftp server was rather ropey15:56
srichterin fact the twisted guys will have a look at our filesystem code to rewrite their FTP server15:56
srichterSteveA: yes, it sucks!15:56
srichterSteveA: but there has been recent work done on it and they will work on it to make it work well for Zope 315:57
srichterMacYET: oh, I see15:57
SteveAi think andrew bennetts is contributing a uss of the sftp server with certain support to twisted15:57
SteveAand he was talking about generalizing it to an ftp server15:57
SteveAso, do talk to andrew15:57
srichterlook, I just now that "spiv" is working on it, which is andrew afaik15:58
srichterwe are in pretty good contact with the twsited developers these days15:59
SteveAi work with andrew16:00
SteveAand he's here in australia at the UDU conference right now16:00
SteveAso, if there's stuff you want to arrange, i can pass on a message, or work it into our schedule perhaps16:00
srichteroh, that sounds good :-)16:01
srichteritamar and I already posted a bug report on what should/needs to be done16:01
srichterI think andrew acknowledged the report already and agrees16:01
srichterso it's a matter of doing it now!16:01
srichterif you could give him some time for this, that would be awesome!!!16:02
srichtermkerrin: is working on getting FTP going with what twisted has now, so that we have a starting point16:02
SteveAi'll talk with andrew about it16:04
srichterthanks a lot!16:04
mkerrinI should have the twisted bug / patch / tests later tonight16:04
SteveAhe has a very busy schedule, though16:04
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srichterI am willing to help but I need some guidance16:06
srichteritamar told me that the SMTP server is supposed to look very similar, but does thinks right16:06
srichter(i.e. uses deferred's and a command pool for correct pipelining16:07
mkerrinI just figured out all this deferred stuff yesterday - a moment of clarity16:07
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mkerrinI wil take a look at the SMTP server - maybe I next project16:09
srichterbtw, don't worry about checking in your code, even though your changes to twisted are still pending16:10
srichterI have done the same :-)16:10
srichterYou need to apply patches from issue 999 and 1000 to twisted trunk right now to get the HTTP server working correctly16:11
mkerrinright - I will check it in then16:13
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MacYET_can the i18n machinery of z3 handle multiple catalog files per domain?16:45
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srichterMacYET_: I am not sure, but I think it does16:49
* MacYET_ detex that the PTS implementation sucks16:51
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srichterMacYET_: it is based on old code :-)16:52
MacYET_i know16:53
hdimaMacYET_: AFAIK catalog file name == domain name, so multiple catalog files per domain is not supported16:56
hdimaMacYET_: see zope/app/i18n/metaconfigure.py17:01
srichterI guess we need to check the zope.i18n code to see whether multiple files can be specified17:06
hdimaso many TODO's... :-)17:06
srichtereek, message catalogs are not utilities :-(17:07
srichterhdima: MacYET_: looking at the code, I am pretty sure you can have multiple POs per language/domain17:09
srichterbecause the identifier of the catalog is its path name not the language-domain pair17:09
hdimayou can have multiple languages in one domain, but you can't have multiple POs for one language17:14
srichteryes you can, just not iun the same locales structure17:15
srichteri.e., you can have17:15
hdimabut: domain = domain_file[:-3], so domain always will be 'zope'17:17
VladDracsrichter: just sorta finished your book - nice work :)17:20
MacYET_got already what i wanted to know :)17:21
VladDracerm wait17:21
VladDracnot your book17:21
VladDracI ordered your book, and finished philipp's book17:21
VladDracsorry :)17:21
VladDrac(already know your book - nice work as well :)17:21
hdimaI think it's not so hard to change catalogs working for multiple files like:,,
srichterhdima: but the translatation domain stores by getIdentifier()17:21
srichterVladDrac: thanks :-)17:22
srichterhdima: I think for a single locales dir structure this is not necessary17:22
srichterI think the two use cases would be, if app X wants to add to an existing locale17:23
srichterlike and myappX.locales17:23
hdimasrichter: but in registerTranslations() 'domains' dict can store domains only for one file per language17:25
srichterbut you can call registerTranslations() multiple times on different directory structures17:25
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hdimaAaa... you right. :-)17:27
srichterI vaguely remember this actually being one of the inital use cases17:27
hdimaI didn't seen on the whole thing, only registerTranslations() code... :)17:28
srichteryeah, that's why I also checked zope.i18n17:30
hdimaBTW, I'll want to think someday about i18n documentation, so you'll can have for example online help in many languages17:32
srichterhdima: wow, that will be a very challenging task17:34
srichterand we really need to get this right ;-)17:34
hdimaFor example I've already translated zope/interface/README.txt to russian, but don't know how to handle it... :)17:34
hdimaso many ideas... :-)17:35
srichterI think you could add it as for now17:35
srichterin fact, for TXT files this might be a nice pattern17:36
srichterI use the same pattern for translations of my book in the SVN repository17:36
hdimamaybe better solution will be directory structure like: ru/README.txt?17:37
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srichterbut then this dir would only contain a few files at most; usually only one, which would be overkill17:37
hdimabut that about human.txt and adapter.txt? :-)17:39
hdimamaybe then: docs/README.txt, docs/
srichterso, right, zope.interface is almost an exception by having 3 TXT files17:40
C8Nmenschlich.txt? :D17:40
srichterno, make it and
srichteran extra docs dir is an idea17:41
srichterbut I think the idea is to keep the dir structure flat17:41
srichterand the README.txt file should be immediately recognizable17:41
C8Ni think that most distros will include 2 doc languages or less17:42
srichterhere is what I would suggest for now: leave right beside README.txt; when(ever) we will have more translations, then we can change that decision17:42
srichterC8N: I agree17:42
C8Nso i don't think the cluttering justify adding a dir17:42
* srichter notes that hdima is the most reponsible/responsive translator of all (not even the Germans are that organized ;-)17:43
VladDracwhat's the current state of PAS in zope3? How does it relate to the "traditional" zope3 security mechanisms?17:43
hdimaAnother one idea: we can add extra dir (i18n/ for example) with translated docs for other languages17:44
hdimathanks :)17:44
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* C8N admires the quantity of spare time hdima seems to have ;)17:44
hdimaC8N: :)17:45
srichterVladDrac: it is finished and will be released in Zope 3.117:45
C8Nhdima: you mean, one dir with *all* doc files?17:46
srichterVladDrac: it is in spirit similar to the previous pluggable auth utility, except that it allows you also to plug in authentication mechanisms, not just data backends17:46
jbb666oh this is not my shell ;)17:47
C8Nhdima: or one i18n dir for every module?17:47
srichterhdima: I do not understnad what you mean above...17:47
C8Njbb666: ;)17:47
hdimaC8N: original docs will be in top level dir, only docs for other languages (like russian :) will be in i18n dir for each module17:47
C8Noh, this is not my prompt ;)17:47
srichterhdima: right, but I still think this is overkill for now17:48
srichtersince russian is the only other attempted translation17:49
C8Nhdima: dunno. i'll wait to see if the clutter becomes annoying. i'll use the srichter solution(tm) by now17:49
hdimaok :))17:49
srichterhdima: BTW, are you using Zope 3 in a real world project?17:49
jbb666j1m: had a question about keyword indexes... they seem to follow a different interface (Ikeywordquerying) from the other indexes... is there plans to have it implement IIndexSearch17:49
srichterhdima: something we have to think much harder about is how to translate interfaces, so that api doc becomes useful17:50
VladDracsrichter is it available in zope3 trunk?17:50
hdimasrichter: not yet, now I'm not the web developer17:50
srichterVladDrac: of course:
srichterhdima: I see17:50
hdimasrichter: but I want to use Z3 for my site :)17:51
srichterah, cool, can I see it?17:51
VladDracsrichter ah, that's PAS?17:51
* VladDrac expected some package named pas ;)17:51
jbb666does Z3 have support for product installation simiilar to what portal_quickinstaller does? for example my application uses a catalog and several app-specific indexes.  i'd like them to be automatically installed17:51
hdimasrichter: (now on Zope2)17:52
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srichterVladDrac: services do not exist anymore; we used to call it PAU, but that's gone now too, since it was not clear enough17:52
srichterjbb666: no, but you can write a subscriber to a certain event and set up all you stuff17:53
srichterjbb666: in zwiki I demonstrate how to set up something when creating an isntance of the application17:53
* jbb666 looks17:53
J1mjbb666, srichter I don't like that approach anymore17:55
J1mI prefer using instalation scripts17:55
J1msee zope/app/generations/README.txt17:56
srichterinstallation scripts in the sense of new generations?17:56
J1mand the initial generation17:57
J1msrichter, this changed a few months back17:57
J1mYou can now provide an installation script that is run if there wasn't a prior generation for the app17:57
srichterso you basically create a generation for you own app17:57
J1mThis is much cleaner than writing startup subscribers17:57
srichterI see17:58
jbb666ok so this section entitiled Initial Setup is what would apply here....17:58
J1mjbb666, MacYET_ wrote the original keyword index17:58
J1mjbb666, the section "Installation"17:59
jbb666hah, didnt make it that far yet ;)17:59
J1mjbb666, I think the keyword index needs to be updated to work with the catalog18:00
MacYET_i didnot :)18:00
jbb666j1m: ok i was playing with keyword index this weekend and managed to get it working TTW addable and stuff for fun ;)18:00
J1mMacYET_, hm18:00
MacYET_or did i? :=)18:00
jbb666the only real problem i can see is this apply method doesn't really map to KeywordIndex's search method which expects a 2nd argument which is the either 'and' or 'or'18:00
* MacYET_ starts svn blame18:00
J1mI thought you checked it in a year or two ago18:00
J1mblame won't help18:00
J1mIt's been moved around too much.18:01
MacYET_right...hiding traces18:01
MacYET_michel and chrism worked on it18:02
MacYET_in 1999...long before my time18:02
J1mjbb666, you'll need to implement apply and call search from apply18:03
jbb666yup thats what i did... and had it just use 'and' as default...  not sure if that makes the most sense but it got my app working ;)18:03
J1mNote that the query can be whatever you want, including a data structure that has and/or info.18:04
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J1mIt's up to applications to construct queries, so you'll need to document what you expect.18:04
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srichtermkerrin: are you still there?18:36
regebroUhm. Ehm. Hum. I've grepped around a bit, but I completely fail to understand how you translate the labels of fields in schemas.18:44
regebroI get an error message telling me I haven't specified a domain, for example, but can't figure out how to specify the domain.... :?:18:44
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srichterregebro: in you ZCML file, inside the configure element add the attribute: i18n_domain="<name>"18:46
regebroaha, so like <configure xmlns="yaddayadda" i18n_domain="calendar">? I'll try that.18:48
srichterthat will definitely stop the complaining18:49
regebroYup, it did. One of my two complaints disaapeared!18:50
srichterso, you probably have another ZCML file that needs it18:50
srichternote that one declaration per subtree is sufficient18:50
regebroYeah, I have two separate products.18:51
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regebroBut nothing actually *happened* though, which is probably a Five-bug...18:51
regebroThanks, I'll continue to grok around and see.18:51
srichterwhat do you mean with "nothing happened"?18:53
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mkerrinstrichter: hey I am a bit stuck at the moment with some stuff at work - can I get back to up in a hour18:55
mkerrinyou in a hour18:55
srichtermkerrin: I won't be here, but we can chat tomorrow18:56
regebrosrichter: I mean nothing got translated. I kinda expected that.  ;) I'm looking into it.18:59
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srichterregebro: you should really read my book's chapter on I18n :-)19:00
srichteryou have to use the <i18n:registerTranslations="path/to/locales" /> to register your translations19:00
regebroWell, I browsed through it and it didn't help. :) But I was looking at info on forms.19:01
srichterit will pick up all compiled translations from there19:01
regebrosrichter, nono you missed a keyword above: Five.19:01
srichterFive does not support this directive?19:01
regebroIt doesn't seem so. But it might soon. :)19:01
regebroOr, I do something wrong. I don't know yet.19:02
srichteralso, you need to check what ZPT version is used19:02
regebroOh? How do I check that?19:02
srichteryou have to use the one that looks up the translation domain as a utiloty (of course)19:02
regebroYes, and there is no such utility.19:03
srichtermake sure that the engine is used19:03
regebroWhich again, is kinda expected. :)19:03
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regebroI don't think that's possible, this is Five, and hence Zope2 ZPTs. :)19:04
srichterI can;t believe Martijn has not worked on I18n yet19:04
srichterso what does Zope 2's translate() do?19:04
srichtercan you paste that method here?19:04
srichterit should be only a couple of lines19:05
regebroI don't know what it does, or even where it is, or if it's used...19:05
regebrobut if you wonder if i18n:translate() works, then yes it does.19:05
regebroBut it works in the normal Zope2 way, which in CPS means Localizer.19:06
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srichterI see19:06
regebroBut the forms machinery does not use i18n:translate.19:06
srichterhold on, I am trying to find the right module in the Zope 2 path19:06
regebrosrichter: My initial reaction is to provide and set up ITranslationDomain utilities for all domains in Localizer.19:09
regebroThat should pretty much solve it.19:09
regebroHmm. Or no, not localize, all domains defined in translation_service actually. This may be CPS-specific, I'll ask efge.19:10
srichteryeah, he wrote the GTS, right>19:12
srichterthe GTS hooks into all this correctly19:12
regebrosrichter, ok, we had a quick chat, I'll try making ITranslationDomain utilities for the TranslationService product. Should work.19:15
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mexiKONregebro, i have some i18n support sitting in my Five sandbox19:27
mexiKONregebro, but before it can be checked in, we  need to branch 1.0 and merge my restructuring branch19:27
regebroah, ok mexiKON, how did you do your i18n support?19:28
mexiKONi have registered a small "translation service" class that looks up i18n domains the z3 way and defers translation to that19:30
GaryPosterHey srichter.  Hopefully quick question.  I was surprised that there was not an adapter from IPrincipal to IAnnotations so I wrote one quickly and was about to hook up the tests when I saw that there was an abortive one in zope/app/principalannotations/ AnnotationsForPrincipal.  I don't like that it tries to stash the utility rather than look it up, and I also don't like that it is not hooked up :-).  Do you know anything about this?  I'm te19:30
regebromexiKON, ok, will you then use the Zope3 ITranslationDomains as well?19:31
mexiKONthat's the idea19:32
regebroOK. That could work too, but I would need to register my translations twice (which isn't really a problem).19:32
regebroHowever, I need this *now*, and not next week...19:32
mexiKONwell, i think in five we want a switch to explictly enable i18n through five19:33
mexiKONi think there can always only be one i18n service registered with the ZPT engine19:33
regebroAh, ok: clarification.19:34
regebroi18n:yaddayadda works fine.19:35
mexiKONof course. there just isn't any translation happening19:35
regebroBecause it's CPS, and Zope2 ZPTs and everything like that.19:35
regebroNon, it translates.19:35
mexiKONwell, because of CPS provides a translation service19:35
regebroYes. But the form machinery of Zope3 doesn't use i18n:translate=""19:36
regebroit uses zope.i18n.translate()19:36
mexiKONyou need to provide explicit message ids in your schemas19:36
regebroThat's all that needs fixing.19:36
mexiKONi don't think so19:36
mexiKONi think we want to do it the z3 way19:36
GaryPostersrichter: J1m said that my last line came out as "I'm t" for some reason.  :-)  It was supposed to be " I'm tempted to rip it out and put mine in, actually hooked up."19:36
mexiKONregebro, let's take this to #z3-base19:37
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regebroWe can't do it the Z3-way, becuase we need compatibility with CPS.19:37
J1msrichter, ayt?19:51
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srichterJ1m: now I am23:16
jbb666short sleep ;)23:16
srichterjbb666: no, just other things to do in life :-)23:17
srichterGaryPoster: feel free to fix it23:17
GaryPostersrichter: cool, already did23:18
srichterthe reason the original one was not hooked up is because it did not work right, afaik23:18
GaryPosterright, it didn't look like it would.23:18
srichterGaryPoster: do you know what Jim wanted from me?23:20
J1mI wanted you to talk to Gary :)23:20
srichterLOL, ok :-)23:21
srichterJ1m: how is you adapter registry rewrite going?23:23
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J1msrichter, slow23:29
J1mI spent most of the weekend getting savepoints implemented23:30
J1min time for 2.8b123:30
srichteri see23:32
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* C8N cheers J1m23:46
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