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| philiKON | srichter, projekt01: any of you guys attending EP20005? | 00:57 |
|---|---|---|
| philiKON | EP2005 that is :) | 00:57 |
| srichter | no, I am teaching | 00:57 |
| philiKON | ic | 00:57 |
| C8N | philiKON: you are tooooo far away for us... ;) | 01:00 |
| projekt01 | philiKON, I'm not sure its a little far a way for three days. | 01:01 |
| philiKON | too far as in time or too far as in place | 01:01 |
| philiKON | C8N, too far as in time or too far as in place | 01:02 |
| philiKON | projekt01, true | 01:02 |
| * C8N in a galaxy far, far away... | 01:02 | |
| C8N | in time | 01:02 |
| C8N | EP20005... | 01:02 |
| philiKON | ah, that :) | 01:03 |
| philiKON | yeah | 01:03 |
| philiKON | hehe | 01:03 |
| C8N | i'm not sure i'll attend it... | 01:03 |
| philiKON | projekt01, it's still closer than PyCON :) | 01:03 |
| projekt01 | What's about a sprint in germany this year? | 01:03 |
| projekt01 | philiKON, Yup, that's true | 01:03 |
| C8N | roger, remember the eventual sprint in turin :D | 01:04 |
| projekt01 | philiKON, are living in the States or in Germany right now? | 01:04 |
| philiKON | germany | 01:04 |
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| philiKON | sprint in germany would be cool... in the summer | 01:04 |
| philiKON | i'll be abroad in october | 01:05 |
| philiKON | for 6 months | 01:05 |
| projekt01 | C8N, I didn't forgot it, are you really planing such a sprint? Of corse I will be there if you can organize it. | 01:05 |
| projekt01 | philiKON, cool | 01:05 |
| C8N | it seems that turin universiti is interested... let see | 01:06 |
| C8N | university | 01:06 |
| philiKON | projekt01, of course, i would also be willing to come to switzerland, if you guys manage to organize one :) | 01:06 |
| C8N | and also the local "camera di commercio" (dunno how to translate -_- | 01:06 |
| projekt01 | C8N, that would be great | 01:06 |
| philiKON | C8N, chamber of commerce | 01:06 |
| C8N | philiKON: yep! thx | 01:07 |
| C8N | and you philiKON? turin? too far? | 01:07 |
| philiKON | not too far, it all depends on the timing | 01:08 |
| C8N | the time seems to be a little far away... if it'll be.. | 01:08 |
| projekt01 | philiKON, we organized 9 Sprints (One Day-Mini-Sprints) each Month this year. I hope we can organize a weekly sprint at the end of this year or the beginning of next year. | 01:08 |
| C8N | projekt01: when you talk about "giving an hand to organize" i didn't realize you have got *so much* expertise in this field o_O | 01:09 |
| projekt01 | philiKON, here some german infos about this Mini-Sprints: http://www.zope.ch/ZUGS/minisprints | 01:10 |
| C8N | rite, gonna go. nite all | 01:11 |
| projekt01 | See you | 01:11 |
| C8N | Cya | 01:12 |
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| VladDrac | that's odd.. I think the readme for zope.app.catalog was quite different (more zmi focussed) a while ago | 01:52 |
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| VladDrac | a found it, it's in browser/ :) | 01:56 |
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| projekt01 | Argh, why do we not return a simply dict with key, values in the addforms. This implicit add, creat, creatAndAdd is a real pain. | 02:37 |
| projekt01 | Hm, I think create and add a object is not the job of a form. | 02:38 |
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| MrTopf | hi | 11:14 |
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| * VladDrac sighs | 12:06 | |
| VladDrac | I bet it's me | 12:07 |
| VladDrac | but I just can't get zope3 to do what I want | 12:07 |
| VladDrac | once stuff seems to start working, I run into errors that mean *absolutely nothing* to me | 12:07 |
| VladDrac | File "/home/ivo/Work/Zope3/Zope3-svn/src/zope/app/preference/preference.py", line 141, in __getattr__ | 12:07 |
| VladDrac | value = self.data.get(key, marker) | 12:07 |
| VladDrac | File "/home/ivo/Work/Zope3/Zope3-svn/src/zope/app/preference/preference.py", line 153, in __getattr__ | 12:07 |
| VladDrac | raise AttributeError, "'%s' is not a preference or sub-group." %key | 12:07 |
| philiKON | well, you're trying to access some preference group or something | 12:21 |
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| VladDrac | really? :) | 12:24 |
| VladDrac | I'm trying to build a sitemanaged folder | 12:25 |
| VladDrac | i.e. derived from Folder, with a LocalSiteManager immediately set | 12:25 |
| VladDrac | either through __init__ or through a factory | 12:25 |
| VladDrac | if, after adding, I resolve ++etc++site internally, I get an object. If I attempt to access the zmi, it fails to do so | 12:26 |
| VladDrac | (and when adding content to the folder I get the trace above) | 12:26 |
| philiKON | VladDrac, can you paste the full traceback (e.g. to paste.plone.org...)? | 12:33 |
| VladDrac | http://paste.plone.org/1638 <- this is what I get when trying to access my folders 'Manage Site' | 12:35 |
| VladDrac | while default = zapi.traverse(p, '++etc++site/default') | 12:36 |
| VladDrac | 12:36 | |
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| VladDrac | succeeds in the factory craeting the folder | 12:36 |
| VladDrac | (most of this is still black magic to me) | 12:36 |
| VladDrac | perhaps I should sacrifice more sheep :) | 12:36 |
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| philiKON | uh, that posting is not about preferences | 12:36 |
| philiKON | it's a NotFound | 12:37 |
| VladDrac | http://paste.plone.org/1639 <- that's the one about preferences | 12:37 |
| VladDrac | I assume it's caused by the fact that it's a sitefolder without a ++etc++site | 12:37 |
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| philiKON | VladDrac, the site concept supports two states: | 12:41 |
| VladDrac | IPossibleSite and ISite? | 12:41 |
| philiKON | an object provides IPossibleSite... then it doesn't have a site manage ryet | 12:41 |
| philiKON | right | 12:41 |
| VladDrac | I want my folder to be ISite right away | 12:41 |
| philiKON | ++etc++site is a naming convention | 12:42 |
| philiKON | nothing in z3 expects it to be ++etc++site | 12:42 |
| philiKON | folders just happen to do it that way | 12:42 |
| philiKON | important are get/setSiteManager | 12:42 |
| VladDrac | what I'm currently doing is deriving a class from Folder, setSiteManager(LocalSiteManager(instance)) on it in its factory | 12:44 |
| VladDrac | it gives me a Sitemanaged folder in the zmi, but with the two exceptions above | 12:44 |
| philiKON | sorry, i've got no idea and no time to look into this now | 12:46 |
| VladDrac | ok | 12:47 |
| VladDrac | np, thanks anyway :) | 12:47 |
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| * VladDrac is onto something | 13:12 | |
| VladDrac | hmm or not. the created object is different from the one I use setSiteManager on | 13:16 |
| VladDrac | but that might be a proxy | 13:16 |
| VladDrac | hmpf | 13:22 |
| VladDrac | <allow attributes="getSiteManager" /> | 13:22 |
| VladDrac | fixes the problem | 13:22 |
| * VladDrac feels like a total n00b again | 13:22 | |
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| VladDrac | I guess my main problem is lack of overview - components, interfaces, adapters, zcml, stuff is coming from everywhere and sometimes I just miss some of it :) | 13:37 |
| philiKON | VladDrac, in case you are looking for a structured introduction: http://worldcookery.com | 13:37 |
| VladDrac | phil: bought and largely finished your book earlier this week :) | 13:38 |
| philiKON | ah :) | 13:38 |
| philiKON | well, if you feel that certain things vital to your application are missing from the explanations, feel free to write me an email. i seek to improve the book constantly! | 13:39 |
| VladDrac | it made me confident enough to actually try and do some serious zope3 work, but the practice is always harder than the theory | 13:40 |
| VladDrac | I specifically like the flashback stuff (I know quite some Zope2/CMF/Plone essentials) - more of that would be nice | 13:41 |
| VladDrac | specifically relating how stuff is equal or different (i.e. Zope3 Sites versus CMF Site) | 13:41 |
| philiKON | ok... noted | 13:43 |
| philiKON | i'm off for class. cya | 13:43 |
| VladDrac | cu | 13:44 |
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| srichter | VladDrac: as a general note you should create security delarations for any interface that your object provides | 14:09 |
| VladDrac | I understand | 14:11 |
| VladDrac | it's also a change of mindset - you don't do everything in pythoncode anymore | 14:11 |
| VladDrac | and problems/bugs/issues very well may be caused by zcml errors | 14:11 |
| VladDrac | (though I would have found a security exception more informative than a notFound in this case) | 14:12 |
| srichter | that's true, it should have probably thrown a ForbiddenAttribute error | 14:12 |
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| VladDrac | didn't someone have a patch to see which template is causing an error? | 14:35 |
| srichter | yeah, I forgot who so | 14:39 |
| srichter | also, I think Marius had put such functionality in before | 14:39 |
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| VladDrac | you can limit the displayd widgets in a schema-based view through something like attributes="...,..." right? | 14:54 |
| VladDrac | hmm fields? | 14:55 |
| VladDrac | yeah that's the one | 14:56 |
| VladDrac | hmm | 14:56 |
| VladDrac | I might have fixed a bug, hurray | 14:56 |
| VladDrac | *sigh* | 15:00 |
| VladDrac | zope.org logins are hosed, can't file bugs :( | 15:00 |
| d2m | VladDrac: whats happening at zope.org ? | 15:00 |
| d2m | VladDrac: must be your client/connection - login works fine | 15:02 |
| VladDrac | tried both firefox and opera | 15:02 |
| VladDrac | for some reason, I am logged in at /login_form (it displays My Folder etc), elsewhere I get the 'log in' action | 15:04 |
| VladDrac | hmm, something's caching too much | 15:04 |
| d2m | must be your client cache settings | 15:05 |
| d2m | VladDrac: Firefox settings are at "about:config" | 15:09 |
| VladDrac | I usually don't have this problem | 15:12 |
| VladDrac | oh well | 15:13 |
| VladDrac | see if it happens again | 15:13 |
| * VladDrac suspects zope.org not sending appropriate headers | 15:13 | |
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| projekt01 | srichter, the additional configure include for the menu registration works. Thanks. | 15:29 |
| VladDrac | damn, amazing, I'm getting somewhere :) | 15:32 |
| VladDrac | my applicationfolder now has a created+registered catalog upon creation | 15:32 |
| VladDrac | (yeah to me this is a huge achievement :) | 15:32 |
| srichter | projekt01: I knew it ;-) | 15:32 |
| srichter | VladDrac: it is! | 15:33 |
| VladDrac | (and I semi-fixed a catalog bug in the process) | 15:33 |
| srichter | cool | 15:34 |
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| projekt01 | srichter, why do we register a own factory in the addMenuItem directive and not just use the registred "factory name" in the content directive? | 16:11 |
| srichter | where is the addMenuItem directive? | 16:12 |
| projekt01 | Zope.appp.publisher.menumeta | 16:13 |
| projekt01 | Sorry zope.app.publisher.browser.menumeta | 16:13 |
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| projekt01 | I think we need only a attribute "action" (TextLine) describing a traversable path or a factory name | 16:14 |
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| VladDrac | if I have a catalog in default named catalog, shouldn't zapi.getUtility(ICatalog, 'catalog', self) return it? Or would that be too trivial? :) | 16:16 |
| VladDrac | (self = sitefolder containing the sitemanager with default) | 16:16 |
| srichter | no, I think this is all correct | 16:17 |
| VladDrac | ah wait, it works | 16:17 |
| projekt01 | srichter, Yes, this is correct, I speak about a simplification. | 16:17 |
| VladDrac | had to pass the name to UtilityRegistration() as well :) | 16:17 |
| srichter | VladDrac: under what name is the catalog registered | 16:18 |
| srichter | projekt01: I do not see how an action would simplify this | 16:18 |
| srichter | it would be much more implicit | 16:18 |
| VladDrac | srichter: it's registered under 'catalog' now, and it works | 16:18 |
| srichter | since action would accept a factory name or a class path | 16:18 |
| srichter | projekt01: our solution now is very explicit, which is nice | 16:18 |
| projekt01 | The registration uses just a action name for pointing to a traversable path or a callable view. We have only to use the right action name. | 16:19 |
| srichter | VladDrac: :-) | 16:19 |
| projekt01 | Ther is no need fora additional factory registration. | 16:19 |
| projekt01 | The content directive registres already the factory | 16:19 |
| srichter | the content directive only creates a factory, if you specify the factory sub-directive | 16:20 |
| srichter | which might not always be the case | 16:20 |
| projekt01 | srichter, Yes and this is what I except. I don't like that other directive register additional factories for my content type. | 16:22 |
| projekt01 | You allways can register additional factories with additional content "factory" subdirectives as well | 16:23 |
| VladDrac | what's a clean way too lookup your default sitemanager? | 16:28 |
| VladDrac | I currently use default = zapi.traverse(self, '++etc++site/default') | 16:28 |
| projekt01 | VladDrac, I think ISiteManager(self or whatever your context is) can be used | 16:29 |
| projekt01 | VladDrac, take a look if a dapter is registred provides="ISiteManager" and if this adapter works for your context (for="") | 16:30 |
| VladDrac | ok | 16:31 |
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| VladDrac | getUtility(IIntIds) would be a lookup for a global utility right? Because there is no context? | 16:37 |
| VladDrac | I'm trying to (programmatically) add indexes to my catalog. TTW everything is fine, but my code raises a ComponentLookupError | 16:38 |
| GaryPoster | VladDrac: getUtility uses the thread global site variable, if it is available (and it should be, within a request), so it actually looks through local utilities too. | 16:51 |
| GaryPoster | (and the int id utility is a persistent--local--utility) | 16:52 |
| VladDrac | ok, somehow it doesn't find my intid utility | 16:53 |
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| GaryPoster | right. What do you mean by "prgrammatically"? Out of the context of a request, you'll need to do things a bit differently (which I may or may not remember ATM ;-) ) | 16:54 |
| VladDrac | gary: I'm creating a folder, making it a Site, adding a catalog and then trying to add an index to the catalog | 16:55 |
| VladDrac | everything up until the catalog goes fine (oh and I create a IntId utility in between of course) | 16:55 |
| VladDrac | I can add indexes through the ZMI but not from within my factory | 16:56 |
| VladDrac | I'm now trying to lookup the utility right after creation - it fails | 16:57 |
| VladDrac | default['intid'] = intids | 16:57 |
| VladDrac | intids_reg = UtilityRegistration('intid', IIntIds, intids) | 16:57 |
| VladDrac | reg_manager.addRegistration(intids_reg) | 16:57 |
| VladDrac | intids_reg.status = ActiveStatus | 16:57 |
| VladDrac | assert(zapi.getUtility(IIntIds)) | 16:57 |
| VladDrac | basically | 16:57 |
| GaryPoster | ah. and you are doing this all within the context of a single request, I bet. Therefore the thread global isn't set up. Try passing your site as a context to getUtility (I think that's still part of the API) | 16:57 |
| VladDrac | gary: I have no control over this invocation - it's the catalog that performs the lookup | 16:58 |
| VladDrac | gary: all within one request, yes | 16:58 |
| GaryPoster | ah. ew. Then one hacky approach is to actually figure out where the thread global site is stashed (I'd look in zope.app.component to find out where this policy is) and slam your site in there. :-/ | 17:00 |
| GaryPoster | you see what I mean? | 17:00 |
| VladDrac | partially - way beyond my Zope3 knowledge | 17:00 |
| VladDrac | isn't it odd that you cannot create a site, a catalog and add indexes within a single request? | 17:01 |
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| GaryPoster | Yeah, I betcha there is a better way of doing it, but I don't know it and am not next to someone I can bug about it :-/ | 17:02 |
| GaryPoster | We use generations, I know | 17:02 |
| GaryPoster | So it's not in the context of a request | 17:03 |
| GaryPoster | Sorry :-( I'll ask around next chance I get :-) | 17:04 |
| GaryPoster | (today hopefully) | 17:04 |
| VladDrac | ok tx | 17:05 |
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| srichter | VladDrac: you are registering the intid utility under the name 'intid', but you lookup the utility without a name | 17:16 |
| srichter | also, if you cannot reach your new site, you can always reset the site global | 17:18 |
| GaryPoster | heh, I didn't notice the name | 17:19 |
| * VladDrac is figuring that out slowly with pdb himself | 17:19 | |
| VladDrac | I just removed the name | 17:19 |
| VladDrac | so a named utility can't be found using a lookup by interface? | 17:20 |
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| GaryPoster | not supplying a name means you are looking up the name '' | 17:20 |
| srichter | well, getUtility(iface) == getUtility(iface, name='') | 17:20 |
| VladDrac | ah ok | 17:21 |
| VladDrac | ok | 17:21 |
| VladDrac | but! | 17:21 |
| GaryPoster | heh | 17:21 |
| VladDrac | I did have to derive from SiteManagerContainer as well | 17:22 |
| VladDrac | and do a setSite() | 17:22 |
| VladDrac | which is somewhat what gary described I think | 17:22 |
| VladDrac | without the setsite (and name='') I get the lookuperror again | 17:22 |
| VladDrac | so my pdb quest wasn't completely useless :) | 17:22 |
| * VladDrac is learning sooo much and coding sooo slow right now :) | 17:22 | |
| srichter | well, that means that you will be coding soo fast soon | 17:23 |
| VladDrac | I hope so :) | 17:24 |
| VladDrac | anyway, I now have a catalog *with* an index, hurray :) | 17:24 |
| GaryPoster | :-) cool | 17:24 |
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| regebro | Yesterday somebody mentioned a trick with translating drop down lists through vocabularies. | 17:41 |
| regebro | I'm not able to figure that out. How it is done? | 17:41 |
| regebro | Sorry, damien kicked my hob downm so I lost connection. I'll try that again. :) | 17:41 |
| regebro | Yesterday somebody mentioned a trick with translating drop down lists through vocabularies. | 17:41 |
| regebro | I'm not able to figure that out. How it is done? | 17:41 |
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| regebro | Anybody knows how to do i18n with vocabularies? | 17:46 |
| regebro | Or for that matter *any* type of drop down box? | 17:46 |
| srichter | create a vocabularies with itesm that have a message id as title | 17:46 |
| srichter | I think zwiki might do it this way | 17:47 |
| regebro | Hmmm. I did that, it didn't translate it. | 17:47 |
| srichter | strange | 17:47 |
| regebro | Lets try again. | 17:47 |
| srichter | I am pretty sure it should work | 17:47 |
| regebro | nope. damn.... | 17:49 |
| srichter | maybe there are some translation hooks that are not setup correctly in Fivce | 17:51 |
| regebro | Could be. | 17:51 |
| srichter | look at zope.app.form.browser.itemswidgets | 17:52 |
| srichter | clearly term.title is translated there | 17:52 |
| srichter | Line 114 | 17:53 |
| regebro | Hmm. ItemWidgetsBase.... | 17:54 |
| regebro | textForValue()? | 17:54 |
| srichter | yes | 17:54 |
| regebro | Ah. This is not translated in 3.0.0... :-/ | 17:54 |
| srichter | I see | 17:55 |
| * regebro bangs head again keyboard. | 17:55 | |
| srichter | regebro: I think the best would be to backport the bug fix | 17:55 |
| srichter | so that we can release 3.0.1 in time for 2.8? | 17:55 |
| regebro | Yeah, that might help. | 17:56 |
| regebro | It doesn't help me short-term, but I just hav eto live with that.., | 17:56 |
| srichter | such effeorts need to come from the Five people | 17:56 |
| srichter | I am willing to help out with the actual release creation, but you guys need to backport bugs and get the branch ready | 17:57 |
| regebro | Of course. | 17:58 |
| regebro | I'm going away for a week starting tomorrow evening, so this really sucks. | 17:58 |
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| projekt01 | GaryPoster, srichter, can we change the directive "addform" to "addForm" with the form framework refactoring? | 18:23 |
| projekt01 | ...use camel bucket like we do in other directives like "addMenuItem" | 18:23 |
| projekt01 | ... with BBB support for "addform" | 18:23 |
| srichter | yes | 18:23 |
| projekt01 | Cool | 18:24 |
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| regebro | srichter: For the time being, I'm monkey patching Zope3 from my Zope2 product. Hehe. | 18:44 |
| srichter | oy, but ok | 18:45 |
| projekt01 | srichter, what you think about a optional nextURL attribute in the addform directive? | 18:47 |
| projekt01 | Right now we use the context.nextURL in add forms (context=AddingView) | 18:47 |
| projekt01 | This could be the standard if nextURL not set in the directive | 18:48 |
| srichter | please discuss this with Gary | 18:48 |
| srichter | he might have thought about it already | 18:48 |
| srichter | I am not getting involved in the Form refactoring | 18:48 |
| faassen | Five 1.0 released! | 18:49 |
| projekt01 | Ok, I think a will hold a bigger session with him. | 18:49 |
| jhauser | yeah faassen | 18:49 |
| projekt01 | faassen, cool | 18:50 |
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| efge | there's not much visibility on this form refactoring :( | 18:57 |
| srichter | you can always demand it | 18:58 |
| srichter | there is not much visibility on any development right now | 18:58 |
| srichter | the community has shrunk so much that we got lazy about writing proposals | 18:59 |
| srichter | usually 2-3 people get together and discuss and agree on something | 18:59 |
| srichter | which has worked out recently | 18:59 |
| srichter | writing a full-fledged proposal is a lot of work and a waste of time if noone participates in the discussion | 18:59 |
| projekt01 | srichter, YUP, I also added the two proposal, but no feedback! If this will be the standard we can rename "proposals" to "outlook" | 19:03 |
| efge | srichter: yes, I expect the community will grow back quickly in the upcoming months due to Five | 19:04 |
| efge | I know I'll be participating more | 19:04 |
| srichter | no, I think that through Five, we might have more people being interested in the development of Zope 3 itself again, which will render the proposal mechanism usefull again | 19:04 |
| srichter | s/usefull/useful | 19:05 |
| projekt01 | I belive it, if I see it... (or how this is called) | 19:06 |
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| projekt01 | But I see it also positive for the future, it's just a question about the timeframe. | 19:07 |
| srichter | mkerrin: btw, did you see Andrew's response? | 19:08 |
| srichter | mkerrin: also, if you have some more time, it might be nice helping Andrew cleaning up the FTP code, so that it becomes more solid | 19:08 |
| mkerrin | srichter: I saw it. I will get back to him before I go home today. | 19:12 |
| srichter | great | 19:12 |
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| anguenot | hi | 19:23 |
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| anguenot | Just to be sure : the current supported version of Python with the trunk is 2.3.5 right ? | 19:24 |
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| GaryPoster | projekt01, efge, srichter: I'm paying attention to IRC as I can. Just wanted to send a quick response. Jim has developed a pretty radically different approach to the forms package. One of its core design decisions is to abandon zcml as a form programming language, and use Python as the way to build forms, and simple adapter zcml to register them. We are still iterating over this quickly, making changes as we need them, but we already like it a lot b | 21:25 |
| philiKON | GaryPoster, long lines on irc get cut off... | 21:26 |
| GaryPoster | We (ZC) are probably effectively abandoning zope.app.form for our own work | 21:26 |
| GaryPoster | oh :-( | 21:26 |
| GaryPoster | what was the last line? | 21:26 |
| philiKON | ... but we already like it a lot b | 21:26 |
| GaryPoster | ...but we already like it a lot better than zope.app.form. We will open source it after zope 3.1 release...or after we stop needing to make quick changes to it, if that comes first. My guess is that zope.app.form will live its own life, undisturbed by the new code, which will probably be in zope.app.page or something. | 21:27 |
| GaryPoster | If that ended with "or something." then we have a winner. | 21:27 |
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| philiKON | :) | 21:27 |
| philiKON | it did | 21:27 |
| GaryPoster | :-) cool | 21:27 |
| philiKON | btw, i have been thinking about forms too | 21:27 |
| philiKON | i want to pageletify everything, basically | 21:27 |
| GaryPoster | yes, a very, very similar thought here | 21:28 |
| GaryPoster | We have been trying to determine what best encapsulates a 'pagelet' :-) | 21:28 |
| philiKON | would be cool if the zc approach would play well with zope.app.pagelet | 21:28 |
| philiKON | neither has z3 in itself, i think | 21:28 |
| philiKON | i have a few ideas floating around my head, i plan to write a largish proposal on this some time in the future | 21:29 |
| GaryPoster | I haven't looked at zope.app.pagelet; I'll try to soon. | 21:29 |
| philiKON | J1m, did you get my email regarding the talks? | 21:39 |
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| J1m | Yes. I'm pondering my reply -- and discussing it with others here over email | 21:42 |
| philiKON | k | 21:43 |
| philiKON | no rush, i'm just submitting my other talk now so it came to my mind... | 21:43 |
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| J1m | philiKON, you understand pagelets? | 21:48 |
| philiKON | i pretend to :) | 21:48 |
| J1m | hm | 21:49 |
| J1m | There seems to be a lot of machinery, but I don't understand what it's doing. | 21:49 |
| J1m | On key feature of the form system we're working on is that forms are defined in Python, rather than zcml. | 21:50 |
| philiKON | how's that an advantage? | 21:51 |
| J1m | Python is much more expressive than ZCML. | 21:51 |
| J1m | ZCML was designed to be for configuration. | 21:51 |
| J1m | Not to be a programming language. | 21:51 |
| J1m | ZCML does to much definition. | 21:52 |
| philiKON | yeah, that's true | 21:52 |
| philiKON | especially the whole widgets thing | 21:52 |
| philiKON | loads of magic happenign with forms | 21:52 |
| J1m | You shouldn't be implementing things in zcml. You should be registering them. | 21:52 |
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| philiKON | very true | 21:52 |
| jpfarias|work | hey people | 21:52 |
| jpfarias|work | can I ask beginner questions here? | 21:53 |
| philiKON | J1m, so, pagelets in itself are nothing more but adapters (as you've probably seen) | 21:53 |
| philiKON | jpfarias|work, sure | 21:53 |
| J1m | In our second-generation forms system, which Gary developed a year or two ago, we has facilities for complex forms with buttons and inheritence of form features. | 21:53 |
| philiKON | J1m, the actual concept is the 'slot', or as i like to call it, a 'region' | 21:53 |
| jpfarias|work | well, how do I install the psycopgda Data Adapter on zope 3? | 21:53 |
| philiKON | jpfarias|work, isn't there a README or INSTALL? | 21:53 |
| jpfarias|work | well, I did what they told | 21:54 |
| jpfarias|work | and installed it on my zope instance dir | 21:54 |
| jpfarias|work | but can't see it on zope manager | 21:54 |
| jpfarias|work | my procedure was: | 21:54 |
| J1m | philiKON, I understand slots, I just don't understand what pagelets do beyond that. | 21:54 |
| philiKON | J1m, you define a region in your page template to be filled and pagelets registered for the current object, the current request and that region are inserted | 21:54 |
| philiKON | J1m, zpt slots != pagelet slots | 21:54 |
| jpfarias|work | python install.py build | 21:55 |
| jpfarias|work | python install.py install --home=/path/to/my/zopeinstance | 21:55 |
| J1m | philiKON, yes, I know and the pagelets seem to be macros | 21:55 |
| philiKON | jpfarias|work, did you install the zcml slug? | 21:55 |
| J1m | But I can't see anything beyond that. | 21:55 |
| jpfarias|work | [philiKON] I don't think I did.... | 21:55 |
| philiKON | jpfarias|work, i can't read that last line | 21:55 |
| philiKON | J1m, yes, currently it's assumed that pagelets are macros | 21:56 |
| jpfarias|work | I ever don't know what zcml means | 21:56 |
| jpfarias|work | :( | 21:56 |
| philiKON | jpfarias|work, then you should read some zope 3 docs | 21:56 |
| philiKON | J1m, and i think most of the time it makes sense to use macros for that | 21:57 |
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| jpfarias|work | man, the docs are a bit confusing | 21:57 |
| philiKON | J1m, a zpt slot is sort of an implementation detail, a pagelet region is a conceptual thing | 21:57 |
| philiKON | J1m, so, the point is that pagelets are really something like browser views providing a certain interface (iw ould like to change them to providing the region interface) | 21:58 |
| J1m | It's all too vague to me. | 21:58 |
| philiKON | well, there *should* be a good definition and use cases, but alas there weren't any proposals... i have one on my plate, but other things are calling too | 21:59 |
| J1m | Have you ever written a pagelet? | 21:59 |
| philiKON | yeah, to demo | 21:59 |
| J1m | ah cool | 21:59 |
| J1m | Is it checked in? | 21:59 |
| philiKON | uh, no, not to demo in that sense, but to play with it | 21:59 |
| philiKON | there are pagelets checked in | 22:00 |
| philiKON | e.g. in the zope.app.boston skin | 22:00 |
| philiKON | jpfarias|work, unfortunately they are a bit confusing. but you can read the zope3book online at http://dev.zope.org/Zope3/Zope3Book | 22:00 |
| jpfarias|work | philiKON ok, thanks | 22:01 |
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| J1m | so anyway, in this generation of our form machinery, we define forms totally in Python and it's much simpler and more powerful. | 22:02 |
| philiKON | i can imagine | 22:02 |
| philiKON | zope.app.form is a mess | 22:02 |
| J1m | It's pretty good for a first try. :) | 22:02 |
| J1m | And it handles simple cases pretty well | 22:03 |
| philiKON | oh, sure | 22:03 |
| philiKON | but you reach its limits quite soon | 22:03 |
| philiKON | i sure did even writing the simplest things for the book | 22:03 |
| J1m | I expect we'll release our work in a couple of months. | 22:04 |
| philiKON | that'd be cool. it'd be even cooler if it could make it into 3.2 | 22:04 |
| efge | J1m: does the python form declaration result in an abstract datastructure ? | 22:05 |
| J1m | If people like it, I don't see any problem with that. | 22:05 |
| J1m | efge, not intentionally. :) | 22:05 |
| J1m | Ultimately, it results in a Python class. | 22:06 |
| philiKON | which you hopefully have to declare yourself...? | 22:06 |
| efge | argh, Archetypes all over :( | 22:06 |
| J1m | It happens to have some data structures (for form fields and actions) | 22:06 |
| J1m | Note at all | 22:06 |
| J1m | Not at all | 22:06 |
| J1m | brb | 22:07 |
| philiKON | efge, i don't think it'll be as monolithic as AT | 22:07 |
| philiKON | efge, in zope 3, you have a separation of the schema and the form, to begin with | 22:07 |
| efge | yes, thankfully. Hm let me try to put in words what I don't like... | 22:08 |
| GaryPoster | And in this case we have a better separation of abstract form (controllerish) and display (display templates and widgets for the form fields and actions) in addition to the separation of schema and form. | 22:09 |
| efge | In many of my applications I have, it's essential that the user be able to customize forms on the fly, document by document | 22:09 |
| efge | so if the form is described by code, it really gets more complex to manipulate | 22:09 |
| GaryPoster | what sort of customization? | 22:10 |
| philiKON | or easier... | 22:10 |
| philiKON | i mean, code can be dynamic | 22:10 |
| philiKON | zcml can't | 22:10 |
| efge | GaryPoster: yes that's also the approach I use in CPSSchemas with the layouts and widgets in addition to schemas | 22:10 |
| philiKON | ARGH. the europython talk registration app breaks | 22:10 |
| efge | customizations like adding new fields to a document on the fly, and therefore creating widgets for them | 22:10 |
| J1m | b | 22:12 |
| efge | gotta go, I'll reconnect from home and reads the logs | 22:12 |
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| GaryPoster | efge: I think you'll find that the design makes that significantly easier. I would much prefer to do this with the new design. You have a form_fields attribute which can be manipulated...by efge :-) | 22:12 |
| GaryPoster | bye, I meant | 22:12 |
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| jpfarias|work | [philiKON] hey, I got psycopgda installed | 22:16 |
| jpfarias|work | now I can see it on tools/Data Adapter | 22:16 |
| jpfarias|work | but I don't know how the DSN should look like... :( | 22:17 |
| jpfarias|work | should I use the same I used on psycopg.connect()? | 22:17 |
| Damascene | jpfarias|work: yeah | 22:18 |
| jpfarias|work | [Damascene] why it doesn't work then? | 22:18 |
| jpfarias|work | it gives me an error :( | 22:18 |
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| Damascene | jpfarias|work: i havent' worked with it in a while. sorry. | 22:19 |
| jpfarias|work | :( | 22:19 |
| jpfarias|work | on the zope log, it say the dsn should start with dbi:// | 22:20 |
| philiKON | yup | 22:20 |
| jpfarias|work | so, it's different from psycopg param | 22:20 |
| philiKON | no idea what the pscyopg param is | 22:20 |
| jpfarias|work | I use psycopg.connect('host=myhost user=myuser password=mypass dbname=mydb') | 22:20 |
| philiKON | dbi://host:port/database i think | 22:21 |
| philiKON | it's like a URL | 22:21 |
| jpfarias|work | I see | 22:22 |
| jpfarias|work | well, I tried: dbi://user:password@host/dbname | 22:23 |
| jpfarias|work | when I test it gives an error: need more than 1 value to unpack | 22:23 |
| jpfarias|work | :( | 22:23 |
| jpfarias|work | hey, got it | 22:24 |
| jpfarias|work | I forgot the port value | 22:25 |
| jpfarias|work | I thought it would use the default | 22:25 |
| jpfarias|work | now I'm connected to my postgres db | 22:25 |
| jpfarias|work | :D | 22:25 |
| jpfarias|work | \o/ | 22:25 |
| projekt01 | GaryPoster, if you are interested to take a look at Pagelets, see zope.app.boston and zope.app.skintools it's all based at the Pagelet pattern. | 22:30 |
| GaryPoster | projekt01: ok, cool. thanks, I will. | 22:30 |
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| jpfarias|work | hmmm, how do I use an SQL Script inside a ZPT page? | 22:36 |
| jpfarias|work | I mean, I want to show the data returned by the SQL Script inside a ZPT Page | 22:36 |
| jpfarias|work | is that possible? | 22:36 |
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| philiKON | of course it's possible, but we don't use database adapters like that. Through the web development isn't really zope3's focus | 22:43 |
| philiKON | we usually write our code on the file system (most of it in python); for sql storage there's sqlobject and the sqlos support package | 22:44 |
| jpfarias|work | I'm confused again.... isn't zope good for web development? | 22:47 |
| Damascene | he means through teh web development. | 22:51 |
| philiKON | jpfarias|work, of course, zope is all about web development | 22:51 |
| philiKON | jpfarias|work, but we don't enter the code through browser forms anymore | 22:51 |
| philiKON | jpfarias|work, we write filesystem code like everybody else does :) | 22:51 |
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| MrTopf | hi hazmat | 23:16 |
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