IRC log of #zope3-dev for Tuesday, 2005-05-24

__odieZope sells *very* well guys, I just totally was able to sell my business partners on Zope.  It was a breeze00:03
J1m__odie, cool00:07
J1mprojekt01, The branch is dead00:07
J1mI committed it months ago00:07
J1mI guess I should remove it00:07
__odieJim7J1AJH: yea eventually, as Im sure we'll need your datacenter product in a year or two if our product is sucessful :)00:07
J1mprojekt01, are you refering to jim-wf?00:08
J1mOur datacenter product?00:08
J1mYou maen managed hosting?00:08
__odieyou're the ZODB engineer arent you?  I meant the replication license00:09
J1mprojekt01, OK, I'll remove that branch.00:09
projekt01What's that a datacenter?00:09
J1m__odie, Oh, ZRS.00:09
J1mI don't actually work on that. Tim Peters does.00:09
__odieah, I saw your name on a lot of the early ZODB docs I assumed it was your baby00:09
projekt01J1m, What's a good concept for starting a workflow implementation?00:10
J1mI would start with the README.txt.00:12
J1mThe thing to understand is that zope.wfmc is *just* a process interpreter.00:12
J1mYou still have to write the applications driven by the workflow, including UI such as work lists and the individual work applications.00:13
projekt01And what's the package? A process definition importer?00:16
projekt01Hm, I think I just have to find out how a application interacts with the process?00:17 is just the zcml directive00:18
projekt01Could the wfmc base package be used for implement a business process as a content type?00:22
projekt01I think the business process is in this case my application.00:22
J1mWe've done something like this.00:23
projekt01And you can customize the business process?00:24
J1mI don't know what you mean by that.00:24
projekt01Did you implement a business process definition?00:24
J1mThe process definition is developed with a tool like jawe and saved as xpdl.00:25
J1mWe've developed a process for our customer.00:26
J1mWe also implemented the applications that the process controls,00:26
J1mThat's where most of the work is.00:26
J1mWe also implemented a UI for presenting the user's work items to them.00:27
projekt01I like to implement a application where administrators can define processes. Let's say define a process with components (tasks)00:27
projekt01One task could be upload a word, a second task could be read and confirm the uploaded word00:28
projekt01Or send the document to user B00:28
philiKONJ1m, will some of this flow back to a generic workflow implementation in Zope 3?00:28
philiKONor was it too customer specific?00:28
J1mphiliKON, don't know00:28
J1mSome of it may become part of a commercial product.00:29
philiKONtoo bad00:29
J1mWe gotta eat too00:29
philiKONof course00:29
philiKONno need to tell me00:29
projekt01Ok, thanks, see you00:30
philiKONit woudl just be really cool to have a standards-based workflow implementation with a UI etc. shipping with z3. it would make it a lot more appealing than it already is00:30
J1mWell, I expect one will ship with Z3ECM00:31
philiKONyup, i was gonna say, this is one of the corner stones of the ECM00:31
projekt01philiKON, I was thinking about that too00:31
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philiKONin any case, the possiblity of avoiding to reinvent the wheel is always very lucrative00:34
projekt01philiKON, but I like to have all in z3 too, at least a simply version (perhaps only a sample usecase)00:34
J1mWhen I emerge from the project I'm on, I'd like to work on making Z3 *smaller*00:35
projekt01J1m, I hope we don't inherit too much from z3 ;-)00:35
J1mI'd like to strip Z3 down and then use some sort of packaging system to make it easy to build larger distributions or to install packages after the base Zope is installed.00:36
J1mprojekt01, Huh?00:36
projekt01Ah, Ok you mean just the default distribution.00:36
philiKONi'm all for a light-weight zope distribution, but we shouldn't underestimate the ability of sensible defaults to attract newbies00:36
projekt01And support a easy way to checkout what you need00:37
philiKONin anycase, i don't really care much about where the workflow implementations are; ECM is just a concept right now and everyone probably means something different by it :)00:37
projekt01We can show what we did at the end of next month in TIKS. I think it's a good base for future ideas.00:38
philiKONprojekt01, will you be at EP?00:38
projekt01No, I have to document TIKS ;-)00:39
philiKONtoo bad00:39
philiKONi'm excited to hear tres is coming00:39
projekt01I hope somebody is organizing a sprint for this year.00:39
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omegadan_Has anybody tried to implement a Dictonary widget?02:25
omegadan_for the Dict() schema?  I need one, going to give it a try in a bit :)02:25
projekt01What do you like to store there?02:26
projekt01Why do you don't use a IContainer?02:27
omegadan_I suppose I could, but a dictionary *SEEMS* to suit the purpose as I need to assosciate 1 string value with another02:30
projekt01And you don't need a order?02:31
omegadan_no, unordered02:31
omegadan_a conatiner just seems a little "heavy" of a solution to store string values to me02:32
omegadan_but I will consider it :)02:32
projekt01Does a list of 2-tuple  (string1, string2) doesn't fit?02:32
omegadan_it needs to be mutable02:32
omegadan_a list of tuples would work02:32
omegadan_but for a list of tuples, wouldn't I have to implement a new widget anyways?02:33
projekt01A list of list with a max len of 2 could also be used02:33
projekt01I just tell this because there is no DictWidget02:33
omegadan_no there isnt, I was disappointed to see there wasnt.  It seems to be the only schema field that doesn't have a widget02:34
projekt01I can't remember why we didn't implement a dict widget, but I was thinking about and didn't implement it for some reason02:35
projekt01There is a reason why I didn't implement it. Hm, I don't know perhaps it has something to do with too many combinations of key/values pair combinations02:36
omegadan_ah, well if you think of the reason please tell me02:36
omegadan_as I was going to look at it02:36
omegadan_tomorrow perhaps02:36
projekt01Perhaps a strin/string combination whould work, but there is a problem if you like to define a key(vocabulary) and value(vocabulary)02:37
projekt01In this situation you don't know which term in a key(vocabulary) will fit for the value02:38
omegadan_i am uncertain what you mean by "combination" ?02:38
projekt01Let's say you define for key a list of possible strings like ['a','b','c']02:39
projekt01And you like to define for the key "a" a list of possible values like ['x','y','z']02:40
projekt01And for the key "b" some other values02:40
omegadan_ah, you mean more like a vocabulary or choice no?02:40
projekt01This isn't possible with a dict widget02:41
omegadan_i actually need to associate arbitrary strings with other arbitrary stings, and this is the reason02:41
omegadan_I am modeling physical objects which have MANY properties02:42
omegadan_and each property has a name and a value02:42
omegadan_the names of these properties cannot be known ahead of time and thus cannot be schema fields :)02:43
projekt01Yes, but if you define the key Field in the interface you have to use a list of text List(Text()) or somthing similar02:43
projekt01And in the List schame field you can use a vocabulary, and this isn't possible to implement02:44
omegadan_right, but I need a list of TWO values, the NAME of the value, and the actual value02:44
projekt01Yes, this is possible. Sorry I just was telling why there is no default DictWidget in z302:45
omegadan_in python I would say it like this: [(value1, value2), (value1, value2)]02:45
omegadan_oh i see02:45
omegadan_you are saying there is no dict widget because in most cases use of a vocabulary is preferable?02:45
projekt01Not preferable but if somebody define a vocabulary the widget can't handle this use case in combination with values vocabularies02:47
omegadan_I see02:47
omegadan_but in this case where a dict is probably best, there is no technical reason not to implement a dict widget?02:47
projekt01I whould use a List of Tuples with a min="2" and max="2"02:48
omegadan_how would you declare that?02:48
omegadan_and would I have to write a custom widget?02:48
projekt01Wait a moment...02:50
projekt01Something like this should fit:02:56
projekt01names = List(02:56
projekt01    value_type = Tuple(02:56
projekt01        min_length="2",02:56
projekt01        max_lenght="2",02:56
projekt01        value_type = TextLine()02:56
projekt01        ),02:56
projekt01    required=False02:56
projekt01    )02:57
projekt01The widget should be handled be default. But if you like to have a nice widget with 2 input fields you have to write a own widget02:58
projekt01The default widget where is used renders a TextLine for each entry witha constraint of 2 string for each input field02:58
omegadan_very interesting02:59
omegadan_I didnt know you could do that02:59
omegadan_would probably work better02:59
omegadan_certainly easier than making a dictionary widget03:00
projekt01Just the UI isnt' that nice but perhaps it's OK03:00
projekt01Yes, defently03:00
projekt01You can add a own widget for this kind of 2-tuples later which renders 2 input fields if you need it03:01
omegadan_I think thats what I would end up doing03:01
omegadan_thanks for your help projekt01 you have given me a lot to think abuot03:02
projekt01That's Ok.03:03
projekt01Good night...03:04
omegadan_good night! thanks again03:04
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bob2hm, how does one change which skin is the default?10:10
bob2in the config?10:19
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VladDracdoes zope3 have anything like a 'default view'12:51
VladDraci.e. index_html?12:51
VladDracor should I just adjust my specific view to implement that functionality?12:51
philiKONyes, it has a default view12:51
philiKONbut you can decide what it's name should be12:52
philiKONthe default defaultviewname is 'index.html'12:52
philiKONbut you can change that with <browser:defaultView for="..." name="..." />12:52
VladDracah ok12:53
bob2VladDrac: The Book explains that :p12:53
VladDracI bet it does :)12:54
VladDracbut why should I bother if my online Zope3 dictionary is online? >:)12:54
regebroHehe, philiKON needs to start charging. :)13:00
regebroI received my copy of the book to day, btw. Amazon has it in stock, even. :)13:01
* VladDrac bought philips book in the store around the corner, actually!13:03
philiKONVladDrac, you're in holland, right?13:04
philiKONdid they have it in stock?13:04
VladDracphil: they had two copies13:04
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VladDracit's a rather large bookstore though, one of the larges in amsterdam :)13:06
VladDracso it's not the avg. small bookshop around the corner :)13:07
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VladDracbrowser:ContainerViews basically enables the default container views on a container, right?14:25
* VladDrac does get a folder listing view14:25
VladDracbut it won't display my index.html14:25
VladDrachmm wait14:26
bob2the book does explain that, but tells you not to use it14:26
VladDracbob2 I know, but initialy, for prototyping, having stuff generated is nice14:27
VladDracis it possible to generate default views for non-container content?14:27
VladDrac(like archetypes does)14:27
regebroAdd and edit forms yes.14:28
VladDracbut no view forms?14:28
VladDrac(in practive you'll always define your own views but still, for prototyping)14:29
regebroDon't knoe.14:29
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bob2so, how do I control what objects get created by FTP put'ing files?16:06
mgedminby registering a named utility, I think16:08
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mgedminIFileFactory or something like that16:08
mgedminthe name of the utility is the file extension16:08
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bob2mgedmin: thank you very much16:16
bob2mgedmin: I guess that's a global utility?16:16
mgedminbob2, up to you16:17
mgedminI suggest you look up the code that handles FTP uploads and see what it does16:17
bob2hm, ok, I guess I don't understand the difference as well as I thought I did :)16:17
mgedminI expect it will do zapi.queryUtility(...)16:17
mgedminwhich looks for both local and global utilities16:17
bob2hmm, thanks a lot, I'll look at the source16:18
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VladDracI've defined a index.html view for my content, and bound it to zmi_actions16:32
VladDraczmi_views actually16:32
VladDracworks great, but now I also get a single View tab when viewing the content type anonymously16:33
VladDracwhich looks odd :)16:33
VladDracany way to disable that?16:33
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VladDrachmm all skins seem to do that16:35
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VladDracwhere's view_get_menu defined?16:43
mgedminVladDrac, find -name '*.zcml'|grep -v .svn|xargs grep view_get_menu16:48
mgedminthat's assuming you are on linux/mac os x, or have cygwin/mingw16:49
VladDracyeah already did that one level deep16:49
VladDracguess I'll have to go deeper16:49
VladDracalready found it another way16:50
VladDracbut it doesn't have "zmi_views", darn16:55
VladDracah wayt16:59
VladDraclong live __getitem__17:00
VladDracit's pretty hard resolving symbols this way :)17:00
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philiKONVladDrac, i really really forgot to document view_get_menu in my book17:13
philiKONVladDrac, i've been planning adding a small paragraph to the Errata17:13
philiKONit'll be in the next edition :)17:13
VladDracwill there be one? :)17:14
philiKONi hope so17:14
VladDrachmm, I can't "redefine" view_get_menu in my own skin - correct?17:14
VladDraczope.configuration.config.ConfigurationConflictError: Conflicting configuration actions17:15
VladDrac  For: ('view', None, u'view_get_menu', <InterfaceClass zope.publisher.interfaces.browser.IBrowserRequest>, <InterfaceClass zope.publisher.interfaces.browser.IDefaultBrowserLayer>)17:15
philiKONi'm planning to keep it up to date, possibly making a release together with z3.217:15
philiKONVladDrac, you'd have to redefine it with layer="my_custom_layer"17:15
philiKONVladDrac, but why do you want to do that?17:15
VladDracphil: I want zmi_views to return [] if there's only one action17:15
VladDrac(or actually: if the only available action is the default view)17:15
VladDracfor more plonish behaviour: no tabs if they don't have any use anyway17:16
philiKONah, hmm17:16
philiKONi'd maybe make another view17:16
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philiKONand not call it the same name17:16
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VladDracphil I already did that as a workaround, but it's good to know what I did wrong (forgetting layer)17:18
VladDrac(though I did rename it to view_get_menu)17:18
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VladDracnice.. my hacks work - no more tabs in "simplified view"17:36
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VladDracmogge j1m17:56
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bob2philiKON: is your book online anywhere to try-before-buy?18:41
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