| __odie | Zope sells *very* well guys, I just totally was able to sell my business partners on Zope. It was a breeze | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| J1m | __odie, cool | 00:07 |
| J1m | projekt01, The branch is dead | 00:07 |
| J1m | I committed it months ago | 00:07 |
| J1m | I guess I should remove it | 00:07 |
| __odie | Jim7J1AJH: yea eventually, as Im sure we'll need your datacenter product in a year or two if our product is sucessful :) | 00:07 |
| J1m | projekt01, are you refering to jim-wf? | 00:08 |
| J1m | Our datacenter product? | 00:08 |
| projekt01 | Yes | 00:08 |
| J1m | You maen managed hosting? | 00:08 |
| __odie | you're the ZODB engineer arent you? I meant the replication license | 00:09 |
| J1m | projekt01, OK, I'll remove that branch. | 00:09 |
| projekt01 | What's that a datacenter? | 00:09 |
| J1m | __odie, Oh, ZRS. | 00:09 |
| J1m | I don't actually work on that. Tim Peters does. | 00:09 |
| __odie | ah, I saw your name on a lot of the early ZODB docs I assumed it was your baby | 00:09 |
| projekt01 | J1m, What's a good concept for starting a workflow implementation? | 00:10 |
| J1m | I would start with the README.txt. | 00:12 |
| J1m | The thing to understand is that zope.wfmc is *just* a process interpreter. | 00:12 |
| J1m | You still have to write the applications driven by the workflow, including UI such as work lists and the individual work applications. | 00:13 |
| projekt01 | And what's the zope.app.wfmc package? A process definition importer? | 00:16 |
| projekt01 | Hm, I think I just have to find out how a application interacts with the process? | 00:17 |
| J1m | zope.app.wfmc is just the zcml directive | 00:18 |
| projekt01 | Could the wfmc base package be used for implement a business process as a content type? | 00:22 |
| projekt01 | I think the business process is in this case my application. | 00:22 |
| J1m | Yes | 00:23 |
| J1m | We've done something like this. | 00:23 |
| projekt01 | And you can customize the business process? | 00:24 |
| J1m | I don't know what you mean by that. | 00:24 |
| projekt01 | Did you implement a business process definition? | 00:24 |
| J1m | The process definition is developed with a tool like jawe and saved as xpdl. | 00:25 |
| J1m | We've developed a process for our customer. | 00:26 |
| J1m | We also implemented the applications that the process controls, | 00:26 |
| J1m | That's where most of the work is. | 00:26 |
| J1m | We also implemented a UI for presenting the user's work items to them. | 00:27 |
| projekt01 | I like to implement a application where administrators can define processes. Let's say define a process with components (tasks) | 00:27 |
| projekt01 | One task could be upload a word, a second task could be read and confirm the uploaded word | 00:28 |
| projekt01 | Or send the document to user B | 00:28 |
| philiKON | J1m, will some of this flow back to a generic workflow implementation in Zope 3? | 00:28 |
| philiKON | or was it too customer specific? | 00:28 |
| J1m | philiKON, don't know | 00:28 |
| J1m | Some of it may become part of a commercial product. | 00:29 |
| philiKON | ic | 00:29 |
| philiKON | too bad | 00:29 |
| J1m | We gotta eat too | 00:29 |
| philiKON | of course | 00:29 |
| philiKON | no need to tell me | 00:29 |
| projekt01 | Ok, thanks, see you | 00:30 |
| J1m | later | 00:30 |
| philiKON | it woudl just be really cool to have a standards-based workflow implementation with a UI etc. shipping with z3. it would make it a lot more appealing than it already is | 00:30 |
| J1m | Well, I expect one will ship with Z3ECM | 00:31 |
| philiKON | yup, i was gonna say, this is one of the corner stones of the ECM | 00:31 |
| projekt01 | philiKON, I was thinking about that too | 00:31 |
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| philiKON | in any case, the possiblity of avoiding to reinvent the wheel is always very lucrative | 00:34 |
| projekt01 | philiKON, but I like to have all in z3 too, at least a simply version (perhaps only a sample usecase) | 00:34 |
| philiKON | sure | 00:34 |
| J1m | When I emerge from the project I'm on, I'd like to work on making Z3 *smaller* | 00:35 |
| projekt01 | J1m, I hope we don't inherit too much from z3 ;-) | 00:35 |
| J1m | I'd like to strip Z3 down and then use some sort of packaging system to make it easy to build larger distributions or to install packages after the base Zope is installed. | 00:36 |
| J1m | projekt01, Huh? | 00:36 |
| projekt01 | Ah, Ok you mean just the default distribution. | 00:36 |
| philiKON | i'm all for a light-weight zope distribution, but we shouldn't underestimate the ability of sensible defaults to attract newbies | 00:36 |
| projekt01 | Yes | 00:37 |
| J1m | sure | 00:37 |
| projekt01 | And support a easy way to checkout what you need | 00:37 |
| philiKON | in anycase, i don't really care much about where the workflow implementations are; ECM is just a concept right now and everyone probably means something different by it :) | 00:37 |
| projekt01 | ;-) | 00:38 |
| projekt01 | We can show what we did at the end of next month in TIKS. I think it's a good base for future ideas. | 00:38 |
| philiKON | projekt01, will you be at EP? | 00:38 |
| J1m | cool | 00:38 |
| projekt01 | No, I have to document TIKS ;-) | 00:39 |
| philiKON | too bad | 00:39 |
| philiKON | i'm excited to hear tres is coming | 00:39 |
| projekt01 | I hope somebody is organizing a sprint for this year. | 00:39 |
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| omegadan_ | Has anybody tried to implement a Dictonary widget? | 02:25 |
| omegadan_ | for the Dict() schema? I need one, going to give it a try in a bit :) | 02:25 |
| projekt01 | What do you like to store there? | 02:26 |
| projekt01 | Why do you don't use a IContainer? | 02:27 |
| omegadan_ | I suppose I could, but a dictionary *SEEMS* to suit the purpose as I need to assosciate 1 string value with another | 02:30 |
| projekt01 | And you don't need a order? | 02:31 |
| omegadan_ | no, unordered | 02:31 |
| omegadan_ | a conatiner just seems a little "heavy" of a solution to store string values to me | 02:32 |
| omegadan_ | but I will consider it :) | 02:32 |
| projekt01 | Does a list of 2-tuple (string1, string2) doesn't fit? | 02:32 |
| omegadan_ | it needs to be mutable | 02:32 |
| omegadan_ | a list of tuples would work | 02:32 |
| omegadan_ | but for a list of tuples, wouldn't I have to implement a new widget anyways? | 02:33 |
| projekt01 | A list of list with a max len of 2 could also be used | 02:33 |
| projekt01 | I just tell this because there is no DictWidget | 02:33 |
| omegadan_ | no there isnt, I was disappointed to see there wasnt. It seems to be the only schema field that doesn't have a widget | 02:34 |
| projekt01 | I can't remember why we didn't implement a dict widget, but I was thinking about and didn't implement it for some reason | 02:35 |
| projekt01 | There is a reason why I didn't implement it. Hm, I don't know perhaps it has something to do with too many combinations of key/values pair combinations | 02:36 |
| omegadan_ | ah, well if you think of the reason please tell me | 02:36 |
| omegadan_ | :) | 02:36 |
| omegadan_ | as I was going to look at it | 02:36 |
| omegadan_ | tomorrow perhaps | 02:36 |
| projekt01 | Perhaps a strin/string combination whould work, but there is a problem if you like to define a key(vocabulary) and value(vocabulary) | 02:37 |
| projekt01 | In this situation you don't know which term in a key(vocabulary) will fit for the value | 02:38 |
| omegadan_ | i am uncertain what you mean by "combination" ? | 02:38 |
| projekt01 | Let's say you define for key a list of possible strings like ['a','b','c'] | 02:39 |
| projekt01 | And you like to define for the key "a" a list of possible values like ['x','y','z'] | 02:40 |
| projekt01 | And for the key "b" some other values | 02:40 |
| omegadan_ | ah, you mean more like a vocabulary or choice no? | 02:40 |
| projekt01 | This isn't possible with a dict widget | 02:41 |
| projekt01 | Yes | 02:41 |
| omegadan_ | i actually need to associate arbitrary strings with other arbitrary stings, and this is the reason | 02:41 |
| omegadan_ | I am modeling physical objects which have MANY properties | 02:42 |
| omegadan_ | and each property has a name and a value | 02:42 |
| omegadan_ | the names of these properties cannot be known ahead of time and thus cannot be schema fields :) | 02:43 |
| projekt01 | Yes, but if you define the key Field in the interface you have to use a list of text List(Text()) or somthing similar | 02:43 |
| projekt01 | And in the List schame field you can use a vocabulary, and this isn't possible to implement | 02:44 |
| omegadan_ | right, but I need a list of TWO values, the NAME of the value, and the actual value | 02:44 |
| projekt01 | Yes, this is possible. Sorry I just was telling why there is no default DictWidget in z3 | 02:45 |
| omegadan_ | in python I would say it like this: [(value1, value2), (value1, value2)] | 02:45 |
| omegadan_ | ah | 02:45 |
| omegadan_ | oh i see | 02:45 |
| omegadan_ | you are saying there is no dict widget because in most cases use of a vocabulary is preferable? | 02:45 |
| projekt01 | Not preferable but if somebody define a vocabulary the widget can't handle this use case in combination with values vocabularies | 02:47 |
| omegadan_ | I see | 02:47 |
| omegadan_ | but in this case where a dict is probably best, there is no technical reason not to implement a dict widget? | 02:47 |
| projekt01 | I whould use a List of Tuples with a min="2" and max="2" | 02:48 |
| omegadan_ | how would you declare that? | 02:48 |
| omegadan_ | and would I have to write a custom widget? | 02:48 |
| projekt01 | Wait a moment... | 02:50 |
| omegadan_ | sure | 02:51 |
| projekt01 | Something like this should fit: | 02:56 |
| projekt01 | names = List( | 02:56 |
| projekt01 | value_type = Tuple( | 02:56 |
| projekt01 | min_length="2", | 02:56 |
| projekt01 | max_lenght="2", | 02:56 |
| projekt01 | value_type = TextLine() | 02:56 |
| projekt01 | ), | 02:56 |
| projekt01 | required=False | 02:56 |
| projekt01 | ) | 02:57 |
| projekt01 | The widget should be handled be default. But if you like to have a nice widget with 2 input fields you have to write a own widget | 02:58 |
| projekt01 | The default widget where is used renders a TextLine for each entry witha constraint of 2 string for each input field | 02:58 |
| omegadan_ | very interesting | 02:59 |
| omegadan_ | I didnt know you could do that | 02:59 |
| omegadan_ | would probably work better | 02:59 |
| omegadan_ | certainly easier than making a dictionary widget | 03:00 |
| projekt01 | Just the UI isnt' that nice but perhaps it's OK | 03:00 |
| projekt01 | Yes, defently | 03:00 |
| projekt01 | You can add a own widget for this kind of 2-tuples later which renders 2 input fields if you need it | 03:01 |
| omegadan_ | I think thats what I would end up doing | 03:01 |
| omegadan_ | thanks for your help projekt01 you have given me a lot to think abuot | 03:02 |
| projekt01 | That's Ok. | 03:03 |
| projekt01 | Good night... | 03:04 |
| omegadan_ | good night! thanks again | 03:04 |
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| zagy | moin | 07:46 |
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| bob2 | hm, how does one change which skin is the default? | 10:10 |
| VladDrac | portal_skins | 10:15 |
| bob2 | in the config? | 10:19 |
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| VladDrac | does zope3 have anything like a 'default view' | 12:51 |
| VladDrac | i.e. index_html? | 12:51 |
| VladDrac | or should I just adjust my specific view to implement that functionality? | 12:51 |
| philiKON | yes, it has a default view | 12:51 |
| philiKON | but you can decide what it's name should be | 12:52 |
| philiKON | the default defaultviewname is 'index.html' | 12:52 |
| philiKON | but you can change that with <browser:defaultView for="..." name="..." /> | 12:52 |
| VladDrac | ah ok | 12:53 |
| bob2 | VladDrac: The Book explains that :p | 12:53 |
| VladDrac | I bet it does :) | 12:54 |
| VladDrac | but why should I bother if my online Zope3 dictionary is online? >:) | 12:54 |
| regebro | Hehe, philiKON needs to start charging. :) | 13:00 |
| regebro | I received my copy of the book to day, btw. Amazon has it in stock, even. :) | 13:01 |
| * VladDrac bought philips book in the store around the corner, actually! | 13:03 | |
| philiKON | cool | 13:04 |
| philiKON | VladDrac, you're in holland, right? | 13:04 |
| philiKON | did they have it in stock? | 13:04 |
| VladDrac | phil: they had two copies | 13:04 |
| philiKON | wow | 13:04 |
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| VladDrac | it's a rather large bookstore though, one of the larges in amsterdam :) | 13:06 |
| VladDrac | ("scheltema") | 13:06 |
| VladDrac | so it's not the avg. small bookshop around the corner :) | 13:07 |
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| VladDrac | browser:ContainerViews basically enables the default container views on a container, right? | 14:25 |
| * VladDrac does get a folder listing view | 14:25 | |
| VladDrac | but it won't display my index.html | 14:25 |
| VladDrac | hmm wait | 14:26 |
| bob2 | the book does explain that, but tells you not to use it | 14:26 |
| VladDrac | bob2 I know, but initialy, for prototyping, having stuff generated is nice | 14:27 |
| bob2 | yeah | 14:27 |
| VladDrac | is it possible to generate default views for non-container content? | 14:27 |
| VladDrac | (like archetypes does) | 14:27 |
| regebro | Add and edit forms yes. | 14:28 |
| VladDrac | but no view forms? | 14:28 |
| VladDrac | (in practive you'll always define your own views but still, for prototyping) | 14:29 |
| regebro | Don't knoe. | 14:29 |
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| bob2 | so, how do I control what objects get created by FTP put'ing files? | 16:06 |
| mgedmin | by registering a named utility, I think | 16:08 |
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| mgedmin | IFileFactory or something like that | 16:08 |
| mgedmin | the name of the utility is the file extension | 16:08 |
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| bob2 | hmmm | 16:15 |
| bob2 | mgedmin: thank you very much | 16:16 |
| bob2 | mgedmin: I guess that's a global utility? | 16:16 |
| mgedmin | bob2, up to you | 16:17 |
| mgedmin | I suggest you look up the code that handles FTP uploads and see what it does | 16:17 |
| bob2 | hm, ok, I guess I don't understand the difference as well as I thought I did :) | 16:17 |
| mgedmin | I expect it will do zapi.queryUtility(...) | 16:17 |
| mgedmin | which looks for both local and global utilities | 16:17 |
| bob2 | hmm, thanks a lot, I'll look at the source | 16:18 |
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| VladDrac | I've defined a index.html view for my content, and bound it to zmi_actions | 16:32 |
| VladDrac | zmi_views actually | 16:32 |
| VladDrac | works great, but now I also get a single View tab when viewing the content type anonymously | 16:33 |
| VladDrac | which looks odd :) | 16:33 |
| VladDrac | any way to disable that? | 16:33 |
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| VladDrac | hmm all skins seem to do that | 16:35 |
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| VladDrac | where's view_get_menu defined? | 16:43 |
| mgedmin | VladDrac, find -name '*.zcml'|grep -v .svn|xargs grep view_get_menu | 16:48 |
| mgedmin | that's assuming you are on linux/mac os x, or have cygwin/mingw | 16:49 |
| VladDrac | yeah already did that one level deep | 16:49 |
| VladDrac | guess I'll have to go deeper | 16:49 |
| VladDrac | already found it another way | 16:50 |
| VladDrac | (zope.app.publisher.browser) | 16:50 |
| VladDrac | but it doesn't have "zmi_views", darn | 16:55 |
| VladDrac | ah wayt | 16:59 |
| VladDrac | long live __getitem__ | 17:00 |
| VladDrac | it's pretty hard resolving symbols this way :) | 17:00 |
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| philiKON | VladDrac, i really really forgot to document view_get_menu in my book | 17:13 |
| philiKON | VladDrac, i've been planning adding a small paragraph to the Errata | 17:13 |
| philiKON | it'll be in the next edition :) | 17:13 |
| VladDrac | will there be one? :) | 17:14 |
| philiKON | i hope so | 17:14 |
| VladDrac | hmm, I can't "redefine" view_get_menu in my own skin - correct? | 17:14 |
| VladDrac | zope.configuration.config.ConfigurationConflictError: Conflicting configuration actions | 17:15 |
| VladDrac | For: ('view', None, u'view_get_menu', <InterfaceClass zope.publisher.interfaces.browser.IBrowserRequest>, <InterfaceClass zope.publisher.interfaces.browser.IDefaultBrowserLayer>) | 17:15 |
| philiKON | i'm planning to keep it up to date, possibly making a release together with z3.2 | 17:15 |
| philiKON | VladDrac, you'd have to redefine it with layer="my_custom_layer" | 17:15 |
| philiKON | VladDrac, but why do you want to do that? | 17:15 |
| VladDrac | ah! | 17:15 |
| VladDrac | phil: I want zmi_views to return [] if there's only one action | 17:15 |
| VladDrac | (or actually: if the only available action is the default view) | 17:15 |
| VladDrac | for more plonish behaviour: no tabs if they don't have any use anyway | 17:16 |
| philiKON | ah, hmm | 17:16 |
| philiKON | i'd maybe make another view | 17:16 |
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| philiKON | and not call it the same name | 17:16 |
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| VladDrac | phil I already did that as a workaround, but it's good to know what I did wrong (forgetting layer) | 17:18 |
| VladDrac | (though I did rename it to view_get_menu) | 17:18 |
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| VladDrac | nice.. my hacks work - no more tabs in "simplified view" | 17:36 |
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| VladDrac | mogge j1m | 17:56 |
| J1m | Mogge | 17:56 |
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| bob2 | philiKON: is your book online anywhere to try-before-buy? | 18:41 |
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