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| J1m | srichter, I wish you hadn't posted the windows tar ball. | 01:11 |
|---|---|---|
| J1m | People are trying to use it. :( | 01:12 |
| projekt01 | J1m, of corse they do, windows is the most used OS ;-) | 01:13 |
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| J1m | Right, but that isn't the release. | 01:13 |
| J1m | It's raw input that Tim needs to generate the release. | 01:13 |
| projekt01 | Ah, uhh I see, isn't this working with Tim's *.pyd files | 01:14 |
| J1m | no | 01:14 |
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| andrew_m | does anyone know the trick for adding an entry to the "quick add" box of the boston skin? somehow it seems different from the rotterdam skin and only shows "hello world" | 13:38 |
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| debugger | hi | 13:58 |
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| debugger | I just saw that zope 3.1 is out :) | 14:01 |
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| debugger | oh, zope3.1 doesn't seem to work on windows out of the box :( | 14:26 |
| debugger | strange... some files are named: .py0000644 :| | 14:27 |
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| d2m | debugger: wait for the windows binary | 14:31 |
| debugger | d2m, I've build it myself, but it doesn't seem to work. | 14:32 |
| d2m | ah ok | 14:32 |
| debugger | its just a: python install.py bdist_wininst | 14:33 |
| srichter | andrew_m: best ask projekt01 | 14:33 |
| srichter | debugger: I think you have to also run a fix script | 14:34 |
| debugger | it even borked the imports of "zope". the install named the directory "Zope", I've renamed it to "zope", and that problem was gone... but other appear and I'm stuck. | 14:34 |
| srichter | python install.py bdist_wininst --install-script Zope-win-fixup | 14:34 |
| debugger | ah :D | 14:34 |
| debugger | lemme try. :) | 14:34 |
| srichter | at least that's what Jim told me; I will put those instructions in the final release notes | 14:34 |
| projekt01 | andrew_m, I just accessed the IRC, what do you like to ask? | 14:35 |
| srichter | <andrew_m> does anyone know the trick for adding an entry to the "quick add" box of the boston skin? somehow it seems different from the rotterdam skin and only shows "hello world" | 14:36 |
| andrew_m | projekt01: i think it was only an authentication problem | 14:36 |
| projekt01 | Really? It shouldn't, it should use the same IAdding | 14:36 |
| projekt01 | Ah, Ok | 14:37 |
| andrew_m | sometimes when i click a folder firefox kinda logs me out | 14:37 |
| debugger | srichter, humm, that srcipt is inside the directory Zope-win, should I do a: python install.py bdist_wininst --install-script Zope-win\Zope-win-fixup.py ? | 14:38 |
| debugger | srichter, oh, it doesn't seem to work :| | 14:39 |
| projekt01 | andrew_m, really? What view do you get on this logout? @@contents.html? | 14:39 |
| debugger | """error: install_script 'Zope-win\Zope-win-fixup.py' not found in scripts""" | 14:39 |
| srichter | I dunno | 14:39 |
| srichter | I have only tried the tar ball on Linux | 14:40 |
| srichter | I personally cannot support Windows, because I don't run it | 14:40 |
| andrew_m | projekt01: that is ok (add menu full) but when i click a folder in the navigation tree i often end up as 'Unauthenticated User' | 14:40 |
| debugger | srichter, the "Zope-win" directory has some other files, *.cfg, eg: SETUP.cfg; what are those? | 14:41 |
| andrew_m | projekt01: it looks like i have to click "login" for every folder or so.. | 14:41 |
| andrew_m | projekt01: maybe a firefox thing or a caching issue | 14:42 |
| projekt01 | Hm, do you use the "zope.Manager" user? This user should have access on all objects | 14:42 |
| projekt01 | Otherwise you can run into a unauthorized error if you expand the tree (and you don't have the permission for a child) | 14:42 |
| debugger | srichter, oh, I've peeked inside the Zope-win-fixup.py, and the only thing it does is creating a batch file. so, this will not fix my problems hehe | 14:43 |
| andrew_m | projekt01: yes, i do. it also works, but if i log in for a folder, then click another folder it looks like i'm loged out again | 14:43 |
| debugger | oh, well, I'll w8 for the windows bins. | 14:43 |
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| projekt01 | Andrew_m, Oh, well caching could be a problem, but shouldn't. Did you set keep-alive to True? | 14:44 |
| andrew_m | projekt01: simply clicking login again, logs me in again without asking for user/pw | 14:44 |
| srichter | debugger: the cfg files are used by zpkgtools to create the tar ball | 14:44 |
| projekt01 | andrew_m, Yes, this happens because the sessions knows about your credentials. I guess. | 14:44 |
| srichter | this is a fairly sophisticated process actually, since we are not distributing the entire Zope3 source tree, but only a stable subset that we are willing to support | 14:45 |
| srichter | if someone sponsors a cheap Windows box, I'll certainly do Windows releases and test them too :-) | 14:46 |
| andrew_m | projekt01: where can i check that keep-alive? | 14:47 |
| debugger | srichter, hehe | 14:49 |
| debugger | srichter, doesn't zop.eorg have a donation page or something like that? | 14:50 |
| projekt01 | Andrew_m, type about:config in the address of your mozilla, you can see the config page then | 14:51 |
| projekt01 | Type keep-alive into the Filter field | 14:52 |
| andrew_m | projekt01: ah.. for the browser, yes that's set | 14:52 |
| projekt01 | Hm, does this happen only on your content types or on default Zope3 objects like the file? | 14:53 |
| andrew_m | projekt01: for the standard folders | 14:53 |
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| projekt01 | Hm, and you use the default user with the role zope.Manager, hm, I think also this is a caching problem. | 14:54 |
| andrew_m | projekt01: yes, think so too. it actually only happens if the folders were visited before as unauthenticated user | 14:55 |
| projekt01 | Perhaps there is a issue already on the bugtracker? | 14:56 |
| projekt01 | If you can, it would be nice to re-install the firefox and if it is still a problem post it on the bugtracker. | 14:57 |
| andrew_m | projekt01: ok, i'll try that | 14:57 |
| projekt01 | Perhaps it's a bug and has to do with header infos from the server or some session issue with the PAU? | 14:58 |
| projekt01 | Do you use a local PAU? | 14:58 |
| andrew_m | projekt01: uh.. no idea. i didn't change anything with authentication | 14:59 |
| projekt01 | Ok, do you use the z3 server on a local computer or is the z3 server on a different machine? | 15:00 |
| andrew_m | local | 15:00 |
| srichter | andrew_m: that's the problem; zope.org is not a non-profit org yet, so donating is not regulated | 15:17 |
| srichter | projekt01: andrew_m: I think it is a browser caching problem, not a Zope one, since I have never observed that, but my caches are all disabled | 15:18 |
| andrew_m | srichter: i'm planning to disable the cache on server side if possible (using meta tags in the page template if necessary) | 15:20 |
| andrew_m | srichter: so the user doesn't have to reconfig his browser | 15:21 |
| andrew_m | srichter: disabling the cache in firefox did not help in my case, btw | 15:22 |
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| srichter | for all passive readers: Andrew and I have resolved the problem privately; when using basic HTTP auth, you are only authenticated for the folder and its subtree you are doing the authentication from | 15:39 |
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| regebro | <In cartman voice> 3.1beta! Sweeeeeet. | 16:27 |
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| VladDrac | http://opensource.amazesolutions.com/projects/zope3/cubic/ <- if anyone feels adventurous | 17:59 |
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| J1m | interesting | 18:00 |
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| VladDrac | (I know it needs more tests, it needs alot more of everything :) | 18:07 |
| VladDrac | (just trying to release something before ep2005) | 18:07 |
| J1m | :) | 18:07 |
| bob2 | hm, so, where can I find documentation on what's hiding inside "context"? | 18:18 |
| bob2 | e.g. I only found out context.user existed by googling for "context user zope3" | 18:18 |
| J1m | nothing is hiding inside context. | 18:19 |
| J1m | You can't count on anything. | 18:19 |
| J1m | What you can count on depends on the type of context. | 18:19 |
| bob2 | hmm, ok | 18:19 |
| bob2 | this is confusing enough that I'm not even sure how to frame my question | 18:21 |
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| J1m | have you read the tutorial or one of the books? | 18:21 |
| bob2 | yeah, I'm reading srichter's book | 18:22 |
| bob2 | it doesn't seem to mention dealing with user-specific data at runtime, though | 18:22 |
| bob2 | (for example) | 18:23 |
| J1m | I suggest going through the tutorial before reading a book. | 18:24 |
| J1m | I also suggest skipping over the testing material on a first read. | 18:24 |
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| bob2 | whee can I find the tutorial? | 18:25 |
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| J1m | http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/ProgrammerTutorial | 18:26 |
| bob2 | ahh, thank you | 18:26 |
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| SteveA | J1m: do you recall why we don't use action="" in forms? | 20:36 |
| SteveA | a colleague just pointed out section 4.2 of http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2396.txt | 20:36 |
| SteveA | 4.2. Same-document References | 20:36 |
| SteveA | A URI reference that does not contain a URI is a reference to the | 20:36 |
| SteveA | current document. In other words, an empty URI reference within a | 20:36 |
| SteveA | document is interpreted as a reference to the start of that document, | 20:36 |
| SteveA | and a reference containing only a fragment identifier is a reference | 20:36 |
| SteveA | to the identified fragment of that document. Traversal of such a | 20:36 |
| SteveA | reference should not result in an additional retrieval action. | 20:36 |
| SteveA | However, if the URI reference occurs in a context that is always | 20:37 |
| SteveA | intended to result in a new request, as in the case of HTML's FORM | 20:37 |
| SteveA | element, then an empty URI reference represents the base URI of the | 20:37 |
| SteveA | current document and should be replaced by that URI when transformed | 20:37 |
| SteveA | into a request. | 20:37 |
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| J1m | we never decided not to use action="" in forms. | 20:40 |
| J1m | I don't think we ever considered it. | 20:40 |
| SteveA | i don't know if it works in real browsers | 20:41 |
| efge | Hi | 20:42 |
| efge | I'd like to hook into the interface adaptation mechanism to have some kind of "catchall" adapter that would know to what desired interface it's trying to be adapted. Is there a way to do that ? | 20:43 |
| efge | So this factory would not only receive a context but also an interface. | 20:44 |
| SteveA | walk up the stack... | 20:44 |
| SteveA | efge: i've wanted this too a couple of times. | 20:44 |
| efge | SteveA: yep that was what I was hoping to avoid :) | 20:44 |
| SteveA | not for a catch-all adapter, though | 20:44 |
| SteveA | i think because it was for some particular niche, i just did some niche thing for it | 20:45 |
| SteveA | you could do so by using the adapter registry directly i expect | 20:45 |
| efge | I expect to use this for proxy-base repositories, so the proxies in content space would have a special adapter that decides how to redirect | 20:45 |
| SteveA | but you'd need your own getAdapter replacement | 20:46 |
| SteveA | i've also wanted an adapter that knows its own name | 20:46 |
| efge | yes I can see the need for that too | 20:46 |
| SteveA | which is useful when you think about using things other than strings as names | 20:46 |
| efge | is any part of the adapters coded in C ? | 20:47 |
| SteveA | some optimisations | 20:47 |
| SteveA | which can be removed, but i don't know if the python versions are tested | 20:47 |
| efge | if not I can look at extending the registry with flags for such special adapters | 20:47 |
| efge | I'll walk the stack to prototype, first | 20:48 |
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| efge | thanks | 20:49 |
| J1m | I suggest exploring other alternatives. | 20:49 |
| SteveA | you mean alternative designs? | 20:50 |
| J1m | Proxies are evil | 20:50 |
| J1m | They are more evil the more powerful they are. | 20:50 |
| J1m | yes | 20:50 |
| efge | J1m: alternatives to proxy-based repositories you mean ? | 20:50 |
| J1m | If you use a proxy design you need to make deep changes to the component architecture, then I'd think hard about the proxy design. | 20:51 |
| J1m | efge, possibly | 20:51 |
| efge | I see your point, but OTOH having slightly more intelligent adapters is not really a fundamental change | 20:51 |
| J1m | I don't find "proxy-based repository" to be a bit vague. | 20:51 |
| SteveA | J1m: do you think there's a case for having adapters that can know what question they are given as an answer to? | 20:51 |
| J1m | I do find "proxy-based repository" to be a bit vague. | 20:52 |
| J1m | SteveA, we don't need anything like this for methods. | 20:52 |
| efge | J1m: I'll detail that in my presentation for EuroPython, I was being terse here | 20:52 |
| J1m | Makes me wonder if we really need it for adapters. | 20:52 |
| J1m | efge, I think I'm somewhat familiar with CPS's respository approach, which is what I think you are trying to port. | 20:53 |
| J1m | I need to think harder about it. | 20:53 |
| efge | J1m: yes, port or find the best way to do in a Z3 setting | 20:53 |
| J1m | The fact that you want adapters like this makes alarms go off in my head. :) | 20:54 |
| efge | It may very well be a dead-end or too complex, but I want to try them and see by myself the complexity of it | 20:54 |
| J1m | I'd really like to have some time to discuss your repository based approach with you some time. | 20:56 |
| J1m | I'd like to brainstorm some twists on your approach that might ne a bit simpler. | 20:56 |
| J1m | I'd like to brainstorm some twists on your approach that might be a bit simpler. | 20:57 |
| J1m | as far as adapters knowing more about how they are called, we have some precedent for this. | 20:57 |
| J1m | We sometimes set veiw __name__ attributes, I believe. | 20:57 |
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| J1m | I suppose that it could be argued that if an adapter factory is an object that implements a certain interface, then the adapter machinery might set some attributes on it. | 20:58 |
| J1m | But that would be after the factory is called. | 20:58 |
| J1m | Similarly, I suppose you could look for special meta data on the factory. | 20:59 |
| efge | in my case I'd need it before the call, yes | 20:59 |
| J1m | Of course, all of this will tend to slow things down. | 20:59 |
| J1m | and I want to make adapters go faster, not slower. | 21:00 |
| efge | yes there's the speed problem | 21:00 |
| efge | As for the brainstorm, too bad you can't be at EP, but I hope we'll see each other around soon | 21:00 |
| J1m | me too | 21:00 |
| srichter | you can always brainstorm now :-) | 21:01 |
| J1m | Too hard over irc | 21:01 |
| efge | well face to face is so much faster ... :) | 21:01 |
| srichter | we shoudl have a sprint in the US before the summer is over | 21:02 |
| J1m | If we had a zen of zope, like the zen of python, it would have a stanza like: "Proxies are evil. Sometimes necessary, but to be avoided when possible." | 21:03 |
| efge | I agree in general that the more magic there is, the more evil it is, and that proxies are often quite magic | 21:04 |
| bob2 | hm, what bits of zope should I be looking at if I want a form that affects multiple objects? | 21:05 |
| SteveA | the experimental zc.page | 21:05 |
| bob2 | e.g. a table with a checkbox for each row, each row showing some info for an object | 21:05 |
| SteveA | or the ObjectField (is that what it's called?) | 21:06 |
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| bob2 | thanks again, SteveA | 21:06 |
| efge | hmm ztapi.provideAdapter and zope.component.provideAdapter have a different order of arguments | 21:11 |
| bob2 | hrm, a little discouraging that ObjectField is only mentioned in the zopex3 3.0.0 pot files | 21:15 |
| bob2 | InterfaceField, perhaps? | 21:16 |
| bob2 | ah, "object fields" | 21:17 |
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| bob2 | hm, does anyone know of any example code using this technique? | 21:37 |
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| srichter | I would suggest using only the widget API and write the view from scratch | 21:47 |
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| J1m | I'd like to phase out ztapi | 21:53 |
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| J1m | the provide functions in zope.component should be used rather than the ztapi calls. | 21:54 |
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| VladDrac | hoedje | 22:28 |
| VladDrac | nederhoed: check out opensource.amazesolutions.com/projects/zope3/cubic | 22:28 |
| srichter | J1m: wanna phase out ztapi for 3.1? :-) | 22:28 |
| srichter | VladDrac: do you have a demo online? | 22:29 |
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| J1m | srichter, no | 22:32 |
| srichter | VladDrac: suggestion: your dcmap should be an adapter or even better have a special DCProperty, like you have FieldProperty properties | 22:32 |
| srichter | J1m: ok | 22:32 |
| *** RaFromBRC|afk is now known as RaFromBRC | 22:33 | |
| J1m | we need to get 3.1 out. Feature freeze for 3.2 in a little over 4 months. :) | 22:33 |
| srichter | how much do we plan for 3.2 | 22:34 |
| srichter | the big changes so far seem to be twisted integration and lxml | 22:35 |
| srichter | anything else? | 22:35 |
| philiKON | lxml is going to make it into z3? | 22:35 |
| srichter | yes | 22:35 |
| J1m | I certanly hope so | 22:35 |
| J1m | I certainly hope so | 22:35 |
| philiKON | yay | 22:35 |
| philiKON | this is great | 22:35 |
| J1m | We'll have whatever we have Nov 1. | 22:35 |
| J1m | It depends on what people actually do between now and then. | 22:36 |
| philiKON | i've started using it, expecting to make bug reports any minute now ;) | 22:36 |
| J1m | Of course, new features actually need to be mature long before Nov 1. | 22:36 |
| srichter | do you expect wfmc to mature enough? | 22:37 |
| J1m | New features really should be complete by Oct 1. | 22:37 |
| srichter | what about zc.page? | 22:37 |
| J1m | I'm not sure if wfmc is of wide enough interest to be included. | 22:37 |
| J1m | I would hope that zc page (probably renamed) in 3.2. | 22:38 |
| srichter | ok | 22:38 |
| srichter | sounds good | 22:38 |
| nederhoed | ah I will | 22:38 |
| J1m | Something I'd really love to do with 3.2 is to start defining a small core. | 22:42 |
| J1m | A truly minimal app server and make almost everything else optional. | 22:42 |
| VladDrac | srichter: z3alot (.org) is supposed to become the demo | 22:43 |
| VladDrac | srichter I'm prematurely releasing stuff so people can have a look before Ep2005 | 22:44 |
| VladDrac | srichter I'll write down your remark and look at it later - tx | 22:44 |
| srichter | J1m: that would be basically the CA + ZODB + transactions | 22:54 |
| srichter | J1m: not even the publisher would be part of this | 22:54 |
| SteveA | srichter: i'd hope the zodb wouldn't be part of the core | 23:00 |
| SteveA | CA + transactions + security | 23:00 |
| J1m | I suppose it depends on your perspective. | 23:05 |
| J1m | I'm not sure that *anything* is core universally. | 23:06 |
| J1m | I would say that both the publisher and ZODB are core to the Zope Web Application server. | 23:06 |
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