IRC log of #zope3-dev for Wednesday, 2005-08-03

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philiKONsrichter, there's indeed a problem with mkzeoinst.py01:07
philiKON(but that's the only one i could find regarding zeo and zope 3.1)01:07
philiKONphilipp@bender:~/instances$ /usr/local/Zope-3.1.0c1/bin/ zeo301:07
philiKONCan't find the Zope home (not in sys.path)01:07
philiKONbasically, doesn't find its own zope3 installation01:07
srichtercheck whether the script is similar to the one01:08
srichterif not we need to sync that01:08
philiKONit's not01:08
philiKONit's very much not01:08
philiKONbecause it works much differently too01:08
srichterI see01:08
philiKONbut i'll have a closer look01:08
philiKONi checked with a zope 2.8 installation, it works there01:09
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philiKONthough it's strangely called; maybe it's a different version01:09
srichterfeel free to correc tall this01:09
srichterI have an Rc2 anyways01:09
philiKONi'll have a look01:09
philiKONoh, rc2? how come?01:09
srichterstuart (stub) has a fix for Py 2.4 and sets security01:11
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philiKONsrichter, ic01:12
philiKONok, we should probably do it like Zope 2.8:
philiKONdon't actually include the script from ZEO directly but use a command-line capable wrapper like that01:12
srichterlooks good01:13
philiKONi'll file a bug report proposing this01:13
philiKONassign it to me01:13
philiKONi meant, i'll assign to myself01:14
srichtercan you fix it till Friday?01:14
srichterok, cool01:15
philiKONi could fix it now but i want tim's ok01:15
philiKONbefore i mess with zeo01:15
philiKONIMO zeo's SETUP.cfg is bogus01:15
srichterwhatever you say :-)01:17
philiKONsrichter, a package's SETUP.cfg can be there or not, right?01:24
philiKONmeaning, if we delete ZEO's SETUP.cfg, nothing will break... right?01:24
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J1mphiliKON, did you need to talk to me?01:33
philiKONJ1m, yup01:33
philiKONso, i had the idea of encouraging all those translators the zope community has to translate zope 3.101:34
philiKONesp. plone has lots of languages01:34
philiKONbut for short term work, the bar of the contributor agreement is pretty high01:34
philiKONespecially if it's just about translation01:34
philiKONso, i thought why not use the rosetta system of ubuntu01:34
philiKONpeople can sign up there and translate zope TTW01:35
J1mwhy is the contrib bar so high?01:35
J1mbut anyway -- rosetta01:35
philiKONjust a lot of bureaucracy for someone who just spends 2 hours translating a couple of message ids to his language and then doesn't do any more Zope 3 development for the rest of his life :)01:35
J1mgo on about rosetta01:36
philiKONok, so no problem about getting the translations back into zope 3 then?01:36
J1mI guess not.  Whoever checks them in is responsible for not violating anybodies IP right, but It's hard to see how a translation of z3 could violate anybodies rights. :)01:37
philiKONyeah, it's not that clear to me either...01:38
SteveAthe rosetta terms of service says that contributors own their own translations, and agree to make them available under the same licensing terms as the software they're translating.01:38
philiKONin any case, i'll get everything set up and tell people to join the translation team01:38
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J1mphiliKON, I think it will be fine.01:55
J1mThanks for pyrsuing this.01:55
J1mThanks for pursuing this.01:55
philiKONthanks for clarifying01:55
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yotaphiliKON: for french translation of 3.x, I'm your man :)02:27
yotaI finished plone 2.102:27
philiKONyota, are you a zope contributor already?02:27
yotano, I 'm not02:29
philiKONyota, ok, no worries02:29
philiKONyota, what you can do already is:02:29
philiKON- sign up with the launchpad system (rosetta is a part of that02:29
yotaI'm learning zope 3 with your book ;)02:30
philiKONyota, good for you :)02:30
yota(and richter's book too)02:30
philiKONyota, sign up here:
philiKONyota, then tell me the email address or nick name you registered with and i'll add you to the zope translation team02:31
yotaoh, i'm already registered :)02:36
yotaphiliKON: my id is sdouche@gmail.com02:36
philiKONyota, ok, you're part of the team now02:37
yotawow, yeah !02:38
philiKONi'm still uploading the POT/PO data to rosetta02:38
philiKONso hang on for a few minutes :)02:39
yotai'm a n00b with rosetta02:39
philiKONsame here ;)02:40
alienoidsrichter: hi, do you have administrative rights for zope3-checkins mailing list?02:44
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srichterI am not sure who does have access02:45
srichterhowever, I am one of the zope3-users admins02:46
yotaphiliKON: does exist a procedure for translation ?02:46
philiKONyota, what exactly do you mean by "procedure"?02:46
alienoidsrichter: i made my first small commit, but i was lurking commits via nntp and i got bounce message from mailing list that i made post not being member, i've subscribed but mail will require moderation now02:47
srichteralienoid: oh, I see; did you subscribe now?02:47
srichteralienoid: usually mails get flatout rejected02:48
philiKONalienoid, just subscribe to zope3-checkins but disable delivery02:48
philiKONalienoid, you need to do so with all lists in order to be able to post02:48
alienoidyes, just forgot that i use nntp for reading02:49
alienoidi'm wondering if someone will be able to approve it, probably i'll need to bother Jim with that?02:50
yotaphiliKON: howto on  zope translation : who manage ? what ml to use ? ///02:51
alienoidok, thanks02:51
philiKONyota, mailinglist: zope3-dev@zope.org02:51
philiKONyota, who manages: you are now the official manager for the French translation :)02:51
philiKONyota, you might want to start a "French dictionary" page on
srichterhow can I create a box that is always at the top left corner?02:52
philiKONyota, so all French translators agree on the same names when translating stuff02:53
srichterset the position in CSS or sth?02:53
philiKONyeh, think so02:53
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yotaphiliKON: a thing like this : ?02:55
philiKONyota, exactly!02:56
philiKONyota, for a list of terms, look at german dictionary or russian dictioanry02:56
alienoidsrichter: i was playing with AdapterLookup and implemented C version, it's not ideal but currently passes all tests, do you think it's worth for creating branch for that stuff or just burry it?02:56
philiKONyota, the list might not be totally up to date but it's a good start02:56
srichteralienoid: Jim plans to rewrite the AdapterLookup to fix a bug and make it faster; however, I think making a branch for it would be great!02:57
srichterdo you have any profile results?02:58
yotaphiliKON: ok, I will start french dictionnary soon as possible02:58
alienoidi made couple of timeit tests with call to lookup, lokoup102:58
yotas/soon/as soon/02:58
alienoidand around 10-15% speed improvement02:59
alienoidhope to make tests soon to have more results03:00
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srichterwow, that's quiet a bit03:04
philiKONadapter lookup speedup?03:04
alienoidthough results are not exact yet03:07
yotaphiliKON: how add french dictionnary on web site ?03:09
philiKONedit ForeignLanguageDictionary03:09
philiKONadd a line:03:09
philiKON- [French dictionary]03:09
philiKONthen save it03:10
philiKONwhen the page reloads, click on the ? after [French dictionary]03:10
yotaI have :  View   History   Backlinks   Subscribe   DublinCore03:10
philiKONyou need to log in03:10
yotaof course03:11
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yotasorry, i'm currently with my profile but without an edit action, so I will start translation with text file and I send to you03:19
yotaphiliKON:  sorry, i'm currently with my profile but without an edit action, so I will start translation with text file and I send to you03:19
philiKONyota, you're talking about the wiki, rihgt?03:19
philiKONhmm, i think access was restricted due to spamming problems03:20
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philiKONok, we can do it this way. the dictionary is really only important once you have multiple translators working on one language03:20
yotaphiliKON:  what is your email ? 90% of french dictionnary is done (with german model). I will check my work this week (with plone's dictionnary and french translation of zopex3.0) and I send a mail. Ok for you ?03:39
philiKONok, you can send me the dictionary03:40
yotagreat! mv /dev/me /dev/bed03:40
philiKONas for translations, you should already be able to do your work at the url mentioned above03:40
philiKONgood night03:40
philiKONthanks for doing this!03:40
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alienoidgood night03:52
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*** mexiKON changes topic to "zope3-dev | Zope 3.1.0c1 released! | Help translating Zope 3.1 into your language! | logs available at"11:52
MrTopfhi faassen12:03
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faassenMrTopf: hi there13:10
MrTopfhi faassen  :-)13:12
MrTopfjust exploring O'Reilly connection13:12
philiKONo'reilly connection?13:13
MrTopfsort of a social connection thingy13:14
MrTopfjust invited you ;-)13:14
MrTopfread about it on Ian Bicking's blog13:15
MrTopfbtw, can anyone say something to my event-post on the Five list? ;-)13:15
philiKONah great, yet another connection thingy13:15
MrTopfjust need to know if I need to do my own event layer or if there's something buggy or need to be thought over13:15
MrTopfI will launch my connection thingy next week then ;-)13:15
philiKONah great13:16
philiKONMrTopf, in short, i think getting "3" events is what happens in z3 as well13:17
MrTopfI knew you like it ;-)13:17
faassenMrTopf: if it's not behaving the way Zope 3 does, then it's a bug. :)13:17
philiKON(it's only 1 event, but it applies to 3 event interfaces)13:17
faassenMrTopf: if it does, then it's a feature. :)13:17
MrTopffaassen: which does not make that much sense to me then ;-)13:17
faassenMrTopf: well, I wrote it and never used it. :)13:17
faassenMrTopf: I don't think anybody has really seriously tried using it yet so far.13:17
faassenMrTopf: you're the first.13:17
MrTopffaassen: you mean the five events or the z3 events?13:18
faassenMrTopf: so if you find some behavior that is inconsistent with Zope 3's behavior, that means it's a bug in Five.13:18
MrTopfwell, as philikon said it seems to be the same13:18
faassenMrTopf: if it behaves like Zope 3, and you don't like Zope 3's behavior, then um, we should talk to someone else.13:18
MrTopfjust getting a move when I add an object seems not that intuitive to me13:18
MrTopfin fact I started searching the bug immediatly ;)13:18
faassenMrTopf: yes, that sounds weird. anyway, you could verify what it does in Zope 3.13:18
MrTopfI will and eventually send something to the z3-dev list then13:19
faassenMrTopf: okay. :)13:19
MrTopfmaybe we simply need some semantic layers13:19
MrTopfif these move events are needed somewhere that is13:19
faassenMrTopf: anyway, it's cool you're playing with Five's event implementation.13:19
faassenMrTopf: I wrote it thinking I coul duse it, but then never did.13:19
MrTopfwell, I thought it might be better than doing my own manage_afterAdd handling etc.13:19
faassenMrTopf: yes, it ought to be better. :)13:20
MrTopfI did this before but if it's generalized in Five then it's probably vetter13:20
MrTopfand I get real events and I don't need a mixing for my class13:20
MrTopfI am trying to build some reference engine with Five so events are handy for getting information about changes13:20
faassenwish we could port the unique id service, but it's still hard to port to Five, I think.13:21
faasseneven though the KeyReference abstraction might make it a bit easier now.13:21
MrTopfjust noticed that I also use _notifyOfCopyTo() which you seem not to use. Wonder if it also works without that13:21
faassenbecause if we've ported that, we can port the catalog.13:21
MrTopfwell, actually I won't use the catalog in my engine13:21
MrTopfand I am planning to make the uid stuff adaptable so for now I can either use my own or CMFUid13:22
faassenMrTopf: if you see some ways to improve the way the events are fired, be my guest. I remember having to refer to odd hackery to detect some stuff happening.13:22
MrTopffaassen: it always is odd hackery in Z2 ;-)13:22
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MrTopfbut one might think about Zope2.9 or later to fire these directly13:22
faassenright, that'd be cool.13:23
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MrTopfactually ObjectManager knows what is happening13:23
MrTopfit just converts it to some stuff which can only be handled by hackery13:23
MrTopffor reasons which are forgotten ;-)13:23
faassenprobably, yeah. :)13:23
MrTopfso when I have some time I will test Z3s behaviour and not only add but also move, rename and delete13:25
MrTopfthough I wonder if this will happen this week (and next week I am on vacation)13:25
MrTopfso we will see13:26
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MrTopftime for some coffee :-)13:28
MrTopfphiliKON: btw, worldcookery seems to be down13:29
philiKONoh. thanks for letting me know13:29
MrTopfand I ordered another of your books for the office :-)13:29
philiKONgood boy :)13:29
MrTopfunfortunately I forgot to do it via your site.. will do next time13:29
philiKONnp :)13:29
philiKON"next time"... *grin*13:29
philiKONhow many books will you need?13:30
MrTopfif we unexpectedly grow ;-)13:30
philiKONor the winter is hard and you need fire wood, eh?13:30
MrTopfnow I should put some z3/five recipes/code snippets somewhere on my site13:30
philiKONit's up again13:30
MrTopffine :-)13:30
MrTopfjust upgraded to plone2.1 and I am wondering if I should rewrite the RSS stuff with Five13:31
MrTopfbtw, can I define default adapters? e.g. one adapter adapts for "IArticle" and the default one for "*" or so?13:32
MrTopfor instead of "*" the base interface of IArticle if there is one.13:32
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philiKONhey srichter15:11
philiKONsrichter, the launchpad thing is slowly kicking in. we've got volunteers for chinese and persian already :)15:11
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philiKONit's true *grin*15:12
srichterI believe you15:12
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philiKONah, and french too :)15:12
philiKONbut that's almost boring. hehe15:12
srichtermmh, the most important language to translate Zope 3 to is ......................15:12
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philiKONhehe... we trade iran zope 3 for nucelar bombs15:13
srichteroh, in Iran they don't speak arabic?15:13
philiKONno. iran is located where persia used to be :)15:13
srichterI know, I still thought they speak arabic, mmhh, interesting15:14
purpledropbearstub_wab = Stuart ?15:24
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purpledropbear= ?15:25
srichteroh, some Aussies are getting into Zope 3 dev! :-)15:25
purpledropbearheheh move over iran15:26
stubYup. I'll e having fun trying to sort that mess out over lunch - from Brazil ;-/15:26
purpledropbeari'll bet you've been mailbombed - by me as well as others15:26
stuben_AU is a valid dialect to translate Z3 into btw. Although last time I translated something to strine the product maintainer objected to my use of 'wanker'15:27
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philiKONsrichter, will you publish the release date of 3.1 final on the wiki? that way i know when to integrate the translations15:32
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srichterphiliKON: I let you know plenty ahead of time15:32
srichteralso note that ST has some nice rosetta upload and download scripts already15:33
srichter(I think we should steal them or ask POV nicely to contribute them. ;-)15:33
philiKONgood idea15:34
philiKONMJ, did you see that15:34
MJI did now15:34
MJST is?15:34
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MJHi Aiste15:35
MJI just spoke with thisfred about the Dutch trans15:35
MJand he already did ST into Dutch via launchpad15:35
MJWe'll be getting together tomorrow at the PUN meet and talk about it then.15:37
srichteris PUN the dutch synonym for PSU?15:38
MJPUN is the Python Usergroup Netherlands15:38
philiKONthere is no PSU15:38
MJNo pun intended. Or maybe there is..15:39
MJMartijn has been denying that for years15:39
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MJSo it must be true!15:39
philiKONso, the PSU originates from holland15:40
philiKONbut it doesn't exist15:40
MJGuido denies that15:40
MJBut, to be clear, PSU in Dutch would be PGO15:41
MJBut you never heard that from me...15:41
srichterha ha15:42
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philiKONsrichter, thanks for pointing me to that script. as far as i see it, we can still *use* it. it's not like it needs to be part of Zope 3 or anything (having it in the utilities seciton would be nice, of course)15:58
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projekt01philiKON, is *-overrides.zcml working? Was there a discussion about that?16:23
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philiKONprojekt01, i added it to zope 3.1 and the trunk16:32
philiKONit's working for sure16:32
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* genconc is back16:50
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projekt01philiKON, thanks16:55
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srichterbenji_york: BTW, I have successfully backported testbrowser to Py 2.3 for schooltool.16:58
benji_yorkcool, just replacing decorators with foo = whatever(foo)?16:58
srichteractually, I may have spoken too soon; the Py 2.3 test is still running16:59
srichteryeah, basically getting rid of decorators16:59
benji_yorkI like decorators. :)16:59
SteveAlooking backwards :-(16:59
srichterand there was a line taking note of AbstractHTTPHAndler.do_request_17:00
srichtercrap still failing17:00
srichterI guess I have to try more17:00
benji_yorkok, if there is anything I can do, just let me know17:00
srichterok, I guess it is pretty difficult to backport this beast17:00
benji_yorkJim will be upset17:01
srichterI keep trying17:01
srichterI have to get it runnign for schooltool anyuways17:01
benji_yorkmm, ok17:02
srichterbut I really want the trunk to switch to Py 2.417:02
benji_yorkme too17:02
philiKONme too17:02
srichternoone is testing with 2.3 anyways17:02
alienoidme too :)17:02
srichterso bugs will creep in all the time17:02
philiKONsrichter, well, i am17:02
hdimame too :))17:02
benji_yorkI'm bad about only testing with 2.417:02
srichterbrave souls17:02
philiKONi think hdima meant me too to py 2.417:02
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philiKONit just doesn't make sense to rely on no longer supported python versions while the rest of the world has moved on17:03
philiKONanyway, you pointed all that out in the proposal17:03
* srichter wonders what putrequest() in Python 2.3's version does17:04
benji_yorkputrequest( request, selector)17:04
benji_yorkThis should be the first call after the connection to the server has been made. It sends a line to the server consisting of the request string, the selector string, and the HTTP version (HTTP/1.1).17:04
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benji_york(from 2.3 manual)17:05
srichterso I guess we would have to store this temporarly17:06
benji_yorkI can't say, I don't have any context.  I can look at it if you wish.17:07
srichterwhen I get stuck, I will beg you to look at it :-)17:08
srichterthe API between the two Py versions is pretty different17:12
srichterbenji_york: do you know whether mechanize also works in Py 2.3?17:13
benji_yorkyep, it's still compatable with 2.2 even17:16
srichterok, then I guess I just need to write a compatibility layer in the Conenction object17:16
benji_yorkok, hmm 2.3 compatability is more annoying than I thought it would be17:17
srichterI basically have to support all those put* methods and then the getreply one, which is equivalent to getresponse, if I see this correctly17:18
SteveAargh.  python 2.3.  nooooooo!17:18
benji_yorkSteveA == Gumby  :)17:19
benji_yorkoh, no Mr. Bill, sorry17:19
benji_yorkI mixed up my claymation characters17:19
* benji_york realizes that he is insane :)17:20
srichterhere is the synopsis of what has to be implemented:17:22
srichter    def putrequest(self, request, selector):17:23
srichter    def putheader(self, name, value):17:23
srichter    def endheaders(self):17:23
srichter        pass17:23
srichter    def send(self, data):17:23
srichter    def getreply(self):17:23
srichter    def getfile(self):17:23
benji_york<grr> This is why I wanted to wait on a decision on z2 and 2.4 before doing this.  I say we hold off and see what happens before putting more work into this.  Thoughts?17:24
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srichterI have to do it; ST has not yet committed to Py 2.4 and I have checked in tests that fail now on buildbot because it runs 2.317:25
benji_york<double grr>  OK.17:26
gintascan you adapt the urllib2 version from Python2.4 to work on Python2.3?17:26
srichtermmh, I could try17:26
benji_yorkhmm, or perhaps just copy the code directly into testbrowser17:27
srichterdoes not work17:27
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srichterbecause it uses some other Py 2.4 features17:27
srichterlike import (very, long, list, of, packages)17:27
gintasbut that's easy to fix, isn't it17:28
srichterok, I give it a shot17:28
gintasI mean it could be the easier of the several solutions that are available17:28
benji_yorksrichter, BTW, I like ST's buildbot CSS.  We just started using buildbot a few weeks ago.  I might have to coopt some of the styling.17:30
srichternot my work, sp you gotta ask POV :-)17:30
benji_yorkquote from buildbot.css: /* Stolen from */17:31
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srichterbtw, there were a lot of people here voting for the switch to Python 2.4; please add a comment to the proposal in this regard18:05
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SteveAwhich proposal?18:09
srichterthe proposal to switch to Python 2.4 for Zope 3.218:09
srichter(as a requirement)18:09
benji_yorkNP, just call me srichter's campaign manager18:11
bob2is the zope2 security stuff (something about recompiling python code) as fragile as it sounds?18:12
bob2(no offence to anyone who may have written it, it sounds like an interestng solution nonetheless:)18:14
SteveAbob2: zope3's security system is different for a good reason18:16
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srichterbenji_york: I think the ClientCookie package cannot work with Python 2.318:53
srichterit clearly expects some incorrect object in the reponse of a request18:54
benji_yorkuh oh18:54
benji_yorkhmm, I was convinced it would work18:55
benji_yorklet me look something up18:55
srichterI got PublisherConnection to behave exactely like httplib.HTTP now, but CookieClient chokes on it18:55
benji_yorkfrom "Python 2.0 or above is required"18:58
benji_yorkso either we're doing something wrong, or they haven't updated their page, or the 2.4 requirement is accidental18:58
srichterI think it tries to detect urllib218:59
srichtermaybe this detection is broken18:59
benji_yorkit does, see the first few paragraphs of
srichterwith "it deos" you mean it should work?19:00
benji_york"it does" == "it does some detection of urllib2"19:00
benji_yorkto what end, I know not19:01
srichterI am trying their example now19:01
srichterthat will show me whether it works19:01
benji_yorkI hate to run out on you, but the pizza is here. :)19:01
srichterit's ok19:02
srichterthe exmaple works19:02
benji_yorkI bet you'll have it fixed before I get back. :)19:02
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benji_yorksrichter, any luck?19:35
srichterwell, I have to find an example in ClientCookie that uses urllib219:38
srichterI retrun the right object in the compat code, but it misses some attributes19:39
srichterthe simple ClientCookie examples all use urllib19:39
srichternot urllib219:39
srichterit is strange it uses urllib2 it seems but a different code path19:43
srichterif everything goes wrong I can manually install a response processor that does the necessary work on the object to make it work with the rest of the code19:44
benji_yorkmonkey patch the response object?  yeah, that would work, or create a subclass with a "copy constructor"19:45
srichteryeah, we could do that too19:45
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GaryPostersrichter: AYT?20:03
GaryPosterCool.  someone, maybe you, made a change to the source widget that AFAIK is broken.  I'd like you to have a chance to disagree with me before I change it. :-)20:06
GaryPosterHere's the doctest version:20:06
GaryPoster 28090   srichter Because the field is required, a non-selection is not valid. Thus, the widget20:06
GaryPoster 28090   srichter does not have an input value.20:06
GaryPoster 28090   srichter20:06
GaryPoster 28090   srichter   >>> widget.hasInput()20:06
GaryPoster 28090   srichter   False20:06
GaryPostera widget should reply True to hasInput if it was drawn before.  Puking if it is required is the responsbility of another bit.  This breaks formlib20:07
GaryPosterMay I change, or do you disagree?20:07
srichterfeel free to change it :-)20:08
GaryPosterOK cool thanks :-)20:08
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srichterthis package is totally messed up20:10
GaryPosteragreed :-)20:10
srichterI think we should try to develop a new version in
GaryPosterI generally agree.20:11
srichterbenji_york: I got it working :-)20:12
srichterA little hack in PublisherHTTPHandler.http_open was all that's needed20:12
srichterbenji_york: so the Py 2.3 BBB code is in schooltool; we can get it there any time20:19
srichterbtw, I can't believe the fix was so simple20:20
srichterit just suddenly hit me :-)20:20
benji_yorkok, I'm still of the opinion that we wait until the 2.3/2.4 stuff is straitened out before making the change in Zope20:21
benji_yorksometimes the road to a simple fix is long and hard :)20:21
srichterwe could check in the 2.3 version to Zope-3.1 branch, so we can cut distribution packages for 3.120:22
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benji_yorksrichter, that'd be cool...20:29
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benji_york... GaryPoster also suggested that I might want to make a non-Zope version available for people to do general web site functional testing.  Selenium-like.20:30
srichterI think the best would be to contribute the code to mecahnize and hope they accept it :-)20:31
srichterthis way we would not need to maintain it at all20:31
benji_yorkI just sent a message to the mechanize list asking if they'd be interested20:39
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smcongrats on 3c1, you all21:25
srichtersm: are you going to try Z3 too? ;-)21:25
smfor sure :)21:26
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srichtermaybe work on zwiki; it really needs a maintainer ;-)21:26
smI am enjoying my first exposure to a real z3 app (
srichterare you working for canonical?21:26
smno, I just went there to check out the z3 translation setup21:26
srichteroh, I see21:27
smnow I've registered zwiki (z2) there..21:27
smre z3 zwiki : yes I think about it every N weeks.. what to do :)21:27
srichterpeople seem to use the z3 version21:29
smI saw it mentioned in your schooltool docs proposal too21:29
srichterjust recently someone was here and set it up on a polish site21:29
srichteryeah, Tom wants me to demonstrate how to take a 3rd party package and integrate it in ST21:30
srichterso zwiki was the best choice21:30
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* sm wonders if z3 zwiki falls under the zope package on rosetta21:37
SteveAsm: /join #launchpad for rosetta help21:37
smI'm there, thanks steva21:38
smit's looking terrific btw21:38
SteveAso you are :-)21:38
SteveAglad you like it21:38
MrTopfhey SteveA21:39
SteveAhi topf21:39
MrTopfit's annoying to hunt down annoying bugs in the evening, I tell ya!21:40
srichterhe he21:41
MrTopfI'd rather do some cool Five stuff ;-)21:41
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mpI've set polish site about zope3...21:53
mpAnd I think I could help with translations21:54
srichterthat would be great!21:54
mpaccount created, email sent...21:58
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srichtermp: I should be able to get you signed up too21:58
mpmy account name is '' (and my real name is Maciej Pietrzak)21:59
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srichterC8N: hi22:08
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C8Nhi srichter, wie gehts?22:10
srichtergood thanks22:11
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nederhoedcan someone point me to a how-to get z3 to get running when I restart my Linux server (redhat fc3)22:50
nederhoedat this moment i browse to the bin dir of my install and execute ./zopectl start (and stop before I shut down)22:51
nederhoedI already have z3 behind apache22:51
srichterwrite some startup and shutdown scripts22:51
srichteryou should ask on the general zope mailing lsit or search google, since this is nto a Zope 3 specific question22:52
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SteveAsrichter: seems that zope3 encodes the http headers using the charset of the response22:56
srichtercould be no clue, but sounds right22:57
SteveAhttp headers should be in a subset of ascii22:58
SteveAit is incorrect to encode them22:58
srichterbut we cannot send unicode22:58
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SteveAhow can headers be decoded if we don't know what encoding they are in?22:58
SteveAlifeless: what encoding should http headers use?22:59
srichterI see22:59
srichterno clue22:59
srichterI guess they should be ascii22:59
lifelessheader data that is specified by rfc2616 is a subset of sascii22:59
lifelessditto 261723:00
lifelessdata that i23:00
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SteveAsrichter: lifeless is our resident HTTP lawyer ;-)23:00
srichterI see :-)23:00
srichterso I guess we need some code checking for the ASCIIness of header values and names23:01
SteveAsomething needs to be done23:01
lifelessdata that isn't specified by 2616 or 2617 or the updated uri rfc (which I don't recall offhand) has to be safe for the rfc2616 bnf which means its transmitted as a subset of ascii, but it will usually be  transformed )i.e. base64 coded) from a richer character set and that will be application specific to define and negotiate23:01
SteveAi'm not sure what the right thing is, exactly23:01
lifelessa good example of this is the sample uri issue in rfc2616 - :23:01
lifeless   For example, the following three URIs are equivalent:23:02
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lifelesswith the unicode safe uri spec the data on the wire is *still* conformanmt to the rfc2616 EBNF, but is decoded into unicode.23:04
srichterso how do we encode unicode chars?23:04
lifelessenough said: http headers - rfc 2616 EBNF, nothing more. application specific headers - write a http rfc 2616 ebnf encoder and user that within the data portion of the header23:06
lifelessi.e. you want to be able to do:23:06
lifelessheaders["X-MyApp"] = myunicodestring.encode("rfc2616headder")23:06
lifelessthe most common such encoder is base64 :)23:07
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SteveAthanks lifeless23:12
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*** sets mode: +o srichter23:12
srichterwow, 48 people in zope3-dev23:13
srichterimpressive :-)23:13
C8Nbut, how many waked up? :D23:14
* C8N ping all23:14
lifelessok, digging up the rfc chain.23:14
lifelessfor implementors is goes like this for .23:14
lifelessa) grab rfc2616 and read teh defn for the header you care about.23:15
lifeless2) case the ebnf back until you have a fdefinition.23:15
lifelessin this case for Location:, its ..23:15
lifelessLocation       = "Location" ":" absoluteURI23:16
lifelessabsolulteURI here is the ebnf from rfc 2396 and  I'm chasing backwards ..23:16
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lifeless appears to be the current standard which turns that into absolute-URI23:21
philiKONsrichter, mp, i'm back23:21
philiKONmp, already took care of you23:21
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lifelessthe short answer may be that one canno for location. more research will be needed steve has suggested we do a launchpad style spec for this23:24
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lifelessI'm just checking the httpo scheme definition, if it meets the std66 requirements then it becomes location: myuri.encode("utf8").encode("hexescape")23:28
lifelessthe fundamental thing is that each header has its own rules, and must also finish up meeting the http/1.1 ebnf to be valid to send on the wire.23:29
srichterso the above would be ok?23:30
lifelessfor location, yes, I think. though I still have one more reference to hunt down23:31
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SteveAsrichter: we'll write a spec on this here.  we may not get around to implementing it right away, and i also want jim to see it.23:32
SteveAit means a redesign of how the headers-related API works.23:32
lifelessif you have a url class, then it could just be url._-str__()23:33
lifelesserm, exsquse my latency induced typing23:33
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srichterstr(url) is even shorter23:34
stublifeless has just had to step out for a bit23:34
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SteveAwe have no URL class23:37
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srichterGaryPoster: please do not forget CHANGES.txt entries23:39
GaryPostersrichter: OK, thanks23:40
GaryPostersrichter: is it intentional that CHANGES.txt in Zope 3.1 branch has changes to 'Some future release (3.2.0)'?23:46
srichterno, I was just sloppy do far :-)23:46
GaryPoster:-) I hear ya.  OK, you want me to rip it out, or not bother till later23:46
GaryPosterok, will do23:47
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srichterI just developed a pretty nice introspector for SchoolTool; I guess I should port this to Zope 3, so that people who were upset about the missing introspector are happy23:55

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