IRC log of #zope3-dev for Monday, 2005-08-08

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yotamy god, current translation is *sigh*01:18
mexiKONhey yota01:18
yotahi philikon aka mexiKON :)01:19
mexiKONhi :)01:19
yotawhy are the files filled with carriage return and tab ?01:24
yotapo files01:24
mexiKONbecause that's how the message strings are extracted from the templates01:27
mexiKONprobably the templates should be cleaned up01:27
yotaOk, I translate w/o return01:28
mexiKONyeah, in translations you can ignore the whitespace01:28
yotaIt's a pain to use Lauchpad, viva Kbabel :)01:29
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yotaI finish first complete draft of translations and I will send on zope3-dev a list of words to add in dictionary01:34
mexiKONgood idea01:35
yotado you think that it is necessary to add &nbsp in the translation?01:41
yotaI have same problem with plone01:41
yotain french, we add space before punctuation like "?" or "!"01:41
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mexiKONno,   shouldn't be necessary01:44
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srichterbenji_york: I just found njsmodule, which can run JS inside Python. I wonder whether this would be desirable to integrate in testbrowser.16:58
srichtersooner or later we need to deal with Javascript16:58
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srichteractually is developed by the mechanize guys as well17:02
benji_yorkLOL!  I just turned around from a conversation with Gary about integrating JJL's spidermonkey/python integration17:03
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srichterbenji_york: ha ha17:03
benji_yorkwe somewhat came to the conclusion that it might be nice, but it wouldn't really buy us much17:04
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benji_yorkwhat advantages do you see?17:04
srichterbenji_york: well, it buys us much, if JS does a lot of the work, such as creating HTML DOM entries17:04
benji_yorkfor testing of pages that are self-modifying?17:05
srichterI would also like to test whether my buttons do the right thing, but then the test browser would need to keep track of the DOM17:05
srichterof the site17:05
srichteryeah, for example17:05
benji_yorkthat's really an example of a "browser test".  That's what Selenium is good at.17:06
srichterI guess you guys just use Selenium for this, but I cannot stand tests I have to run in the browser17:06
benji_yorkwe can't either :)17:06
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benji_yorkthat's why we set them up so they can be run from the command line and then automated them with buildbot17:06
srichterI see, but it is not a platform-independent solution17:07
benji_yorkit runs on IE, Firefox, and Safari on Linux, Windows, and Mac17:08
benji_york(not respectively) :)17:08
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srichterbut it cannot run as part of my test suite :-)17:08
wiggydoes zope3 allow a @ in ids?17:09
srichterso I have no immediate feedback whether my changes in template X broke something in the app17:09
srichterwiggy: I am not sure, but it should17:09
benji_yorksrichter, why not?   we type "bin/test" to run the unit and functional tests, then type "bin/selenium" to run the selenium tests, at the end it prints out how many tests ran/passed/failed17:09
srichterI see, but you have to have several browsers installed, right?17:10
srichterI dunno, I prefer writing tests in Python17:11
srichterfor example, I have this switch that shows and hides menu options (actually the Developer Tools menu from the proposal)17:11
srichterI would love to tell in my ftest to be able to say: To show the tools, click17:12
srichter   >>>"menuswitch")17:12
benji_yorksrichter, re: show/hide switch.  We have the same kind of thing in our last project, but I think that's not really a case for functional tests.  If you want to make sure it works, you want to make sure it works in the browser(s) you inend to support.  That means you really need browser tests, not functional tests.17:17
srichterthat's true too of course17:18
benji_yorksrichter, I agree that >>>"menuswitch") would be ideal, but I don't think I buys us enough to spend the effort resurecting JJL's spidermonkey code17:19
benji_yorks/I buys/it buys/17:19
srichteryeah, the cost is far too high right now, unfortunately17:20
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benji_yorkalso, python-spidermonkey doesn't include the Mozilla DOM, so we'd have to come up with a reasonable emulation thereof  :(17:21
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GaryPostersrichter: hey. might be a 3.1 issue.  Definitely 3.1.1, I'd say.21:43
srichterfeel free to fix it; I have not cut RC2 yet21:44
srichterI think I will wait a little bt longer with RC2, since bug reports from us still trickle in21:45
GaryPosterOK, cool.  Fred will probably do it as soon as he can.21:45
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philiKONGaryPoster, as long as you're sitting down together with fred, could you have him look at 436?22:16
GaryPosterphiliKON: mentioned :-)22:18
philiKONthanks :)22:18
GaryPosterhe says he can't right now, but maybe tomorrow22:19
philiKONit includes a patch22:19
philiKONi just need a "go" or "no go"22:19
philiKONjust like it to be in rc222:19
philiKONor the final, for that matter22:19
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GaryPosterOK, relayed and confirmed receipt. :-)22:21
srichterI will delay RC2 a till later this week22:23
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GaryPostersrichter: The zcml fix for the _protections stuff is too much of a feature, I suppose.  I know of a hack that would at least fix the functional test problem.  Would you like me to put the hack in that fixes the problem, along with a comment saying that it is destined to disappear, so that 3.1 at least isn't broken in this way?  It isn't the 'right' way to fix it--the zcml is right IMO--but RC2 isn't the time to include new zcml, I guess.22:36
srichterhack ok22:37
GaryPosterok, cool22:37
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philiKONsrichter, can i sneak in the translations in between rc2 and final, or should we wait for a 3.1.1 for translations?23:15
GaryPostersrichter: I'm not gonna put the security hack in after all.  Other code has already compensated, and it's too gross.  We'll just deal with it for 3.2.23:15
srichterphiliKON: translations; preferably not, but it would be ok23:16
philiKONi can understand23:16
philiKONideally a rc is released unchanged as final23:16
philiKONif we can agree on making a 3.1.1 soon23:16
philiKONin, say, a month or so23:16
srichterwe can make it any time23:16
srichterhow far along are the translations?23:16
philiKONthis is of course the current status in launchpad23:17
philiKONa lot of people are translating off line and jus tupload the pos later23:17
philiKONwe have 15 languages in progress already23:18
philiKONmeaning, devoted people for 15 languages23:18
philiKONsrichter, re: cutting  a release any time23:23
philiKONi realize that from a release management point of view, minor releases can be cut any time23:23
philiKONi'm just saying that we might want to fix a date in the roadmap23:23
philiKONlike andreas does for zope 2.8.x releases23:23
philiKONthat way i can also motivate translators to get done23:23
srichterI rather keep that open23:23
srichterI will release minor releases as bugs get fixed or translations come in23:24
philiKONhmm. ok23:24
philiKONi hope that people will actually maintain 3.1 branch23:24
philiKONotherwise 3.1.1 will land together with 3.2 or so23:24
philiKON(just like x3.0.1 happened)23:24
srichterwell, ST switches to the 3.1 branch23:24
srichterI found a lot of issues with the new apidoc API and will fix those bugs as I am working on docs23:25
philiKONi hope that 3.1 will enter debian testing at some point23:25
wiggyit will23:29
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dman13I think a planned and documented release date for 3.1.1 will help encourage people to maintain the 3.1 branch23:35
dman13I know that I never actually expected a 3.0.1 release and didn't think the 3.0 branch mattered after a while when it seemed that 3.1 would be "soon" (that was a while ago)23:36
srichterI am not producing releases that do not have any changes23:38
dman13that makes sense23:38
dman13I think the branch may be more likely to see changes and be maintained if a target is available to aim at23:39
dman13if 3.2 is released in 3 months then maybe the 3.1 branch won't be needed after all23:39
dman13so maybe making the release date contingent upon having some changes?23:40
srichterwell, as said before ST is set on 3.1 for now at least23:40
dman13I don't know, but these are some thoughts.23:40
srichterand I have already noticed a bunch of bugs that I will fix23:40
dman13say, I tried to figure out how to comment on the DeveloperMode proposal the other day but I didn't see how to do it23:41
srichterdman13: of course your psychological argument is valid and true for many people23:42
srichterdman13: I think you have to become a power user23:42
dman13the wiki had no "comment" like (like z3 does) and the "help" was a extremely vague on what email address to send to23:42
dman13oh, ok23:42
dman13well, +1 on the idea from me and I don't have any strong opinions on ZCML vs ZConfig23:42
srichterbut you should have still seen the comment box on the bottom I think23:42
srichterGaryPoster: benji_york: can any of you give dman13 edit rights?23:43
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dman13are anonymous users supposed to be able to see comments?23:44
dman13sometime last week I viewed the page from work, and I could read all the comments23:44
GaryPosterdman13: yes, AFAIK.23:44
dman13at home over the weekend I couldn't get the site to recognize that I was logged in23:44
srichteryeah, anyone can read everything23:44
dman13only the login page would show that I was logged in23:44
dman13now my work machine is doing the same thing23:44
srichterdman13: I removed all the comments and integrated their content into the proposal23:45
dman13ah, ok, that explains why I can't see them anymore23:45
dman13the header still lacks indication that I am logged in23:45
srichtermmh, then you are not logged in :-)23:45
dman13maybe I just didn't notice that last week and that's why I couldn't comment?23:45
GaryPostersrichter, dman13: I'll see if I can figure out what permissions derrick to give in a bit.23:45
GaryPosterand no, the logged/not logged stuff is terribly hosed.23:46
dman13how fun23:46
dman13well, at least it's not my fault ;-)23:46
dman13I guess23:46
GaryPosterwell I *was* going to blame you ;-)  No, last I heard it was a squid configuration problem.  "hard" reload the page to see what the story really is.23:47
dman13I hit the toolbar button a few times and also pressed "enter" in the address bar.  No change.  I removed the local proxy from my browser's configuration and still no change.  When I click the "log in" link, that page's header shows that I am logged in, just not the wiki page's view.23:49
dman13I'm using Firefox, BTW.  (1.0.4 I think, but maybe 1.0.6)23:50
dman13I could be a cache problem ... since the one page works and the other doesn't.  I don't know which cache or if I can do anything about it.23:51
philiKONsrichter, of course, you don't have to make a release when there's no change23:55
philiKONsrichter, but setting a fixed date for a release will encourage people to get fixes done before that23:55
philiKONe.g. the translations23:55
philiKONand it actually sends out a positive message that this branch is maintained23:56
philiKONit seems to work well for andreas23:57
srichterchoose a date23:57
dman13next friday ;-)23:57
philiKON(date of 3.1.0 release + 1 month)23:57
philiKONerr, i meant23:57
philiKON(date of 3.1.0 release_ + 1 month23:57
philiKON(date of 3.1.0 release) + 1 month23:57
philiKONnow it's right :)23:57
philiKONok, i'm outta here23:58
philiKONhave a good night23:58
dman13that sounds reasonable to me23:58
dman13especially for the translations to be finished23:59

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