IRC log of #zope3-dev for Tuesday, 2005-08-09

dman13maybe add a week or two if you (srichter) think you'll need more time to finish the fixes you mentioned earlier00:00
srichterI do it as I have time00:00
dman13sure, I just wouldn't like to see you have the fixes almost done, but have to leave them out on account of needing just a couple more days00:02
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bob2reaing the "principal annotations" chapter of srichter's book06:43
bob2but services are gone in 3.106:43
bob2so I'm a bit confuse about how to register the utility06:43
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philiKONbob2, why register it. it's already there10:37
philiKONbob2, and it's a local utility10:37
bob2hmm, ok10:49
bob2getting rid of services does make everything easier10:49
bob2as long as you know how it makes it easier ;)10:49
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bob2is it likely you or srichter will have a chance to update your books to 3.1 sometime soon?10:53
philiKONi will try to update my book for 3.211:02
philiKONwhich is due in december11:03
philiKONmaybe in the end it'll be 3.3, dunno yet11:03
philiKONreleasing stuff onto paper takes time11:03
philiKONbut yes, i deifnitely have the plans11:03
bob2if your book was online... :-)11:03
philiKONthen i'd get no money whatsoever11:04
philiKONi'm just a poor college student11:04
bob2hehe, fair enough11:05
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bob2so, I've asked a couple of times11:23
bob2but I still haven't really figured out how to write a form that modifies a bunch of objects11:23
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bob2hm, tho, I did buy srichter's book, as well as reading it online12:34
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benji_yorksrichter, AYT?17:25
srichterbenji_york: what's up?17:27
benji_yorkGary has been writing some testbrowser tests and we've come up with a fairly big change, and I wanted to make sure you didn't have a bunch of tests you'll have to fix17:29
srichterI have a copy of testbrowser in schooltool17:29
srichterso it will not affect me17:29
benji_yorkoh, ok17:29
benji_yorkFYI, here's what we're doing...17:30
* srichter listens/reads17:30
benji_yorkremoving the .controls mapping and .getControl method and replacing them with a single .get method that will take name, id, and value parameters17:30
benji_yorkname will be the default (first)17:30
srichterwhat will it return?17:31
mgedminwhat is name and what is id?17:31
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SteveAwhy not replace 'controls' with a mapping that has the semantics you need?17:32
srichtername or id of the control17:32
mgedminget(name, id, value)17:32
srichter<input name="foo" id "foobar" ...>17:32
mgedminor did I misunderstand?17:32
srichtercontrols are form input controls17:32
srichterbenji_york: why did you make this change?17:33
srichterbenji_york: I liked the explicit naming of controls17:33
srichterbenji_york: or can you get other DOM elements as well?17:33
mgedminor is it get(name='foo') vs get(id='bar') vs get(value='Submit Changes')?17:33
srichterbenji_york: like links, divs, etc17:33
mgedminah, it makes sense then17:33
srichtermgedmin: right, you can choose the search parameters17:34
benji_yorksrichter, Gary's been using it fairly intense use and we've come to realize the semi-magic browser.controls isn't as helpful as I had hoped17:34
benji_yorknope, just controls, if you want to do more sophisticated HTML parsing you should use an external package (xpath, beautifulsoup, DOM, etc.)17:35
srichterbenji_york: ok, I have barely used .controls too17:35
benji_yorkmgedmin, it's all of those :)   If you specify more than one, they all must match17:35
srichterI use mainly getControl17:36
benji_yorksrichter, right, so now you'll just use "get" and because most of the time you'll be using "name=" we've made that the first agument17:36
srichteryep, good idea17:36
SteveA get for17:36
SteveA 'get' for get a name, getByValue for get a value and getById for get by id seems clearer to me17:37
srichterbenji_york: I think we really should be supporting some sort of sub DOM tree selection17:37
srichterI would really like to say give me the text of the div that has id X17:37
* SteveA keeps on bikeshedding...17:37
benji_yorkSteveA :)17:38
srichterSteveA: mmh, matter of taste17:38
srichterI don't care either way17:38
mgedminlxml will be in zope 3.2, won't it?17:38
mgedminxpath is nice17:38
srichterI would not want this in an application API this way, but for the testbrowser it is fine and convenient17:39
SteveAsrichter: maybe.  i consider it more a matter of what aspect of the language you're using.  all other things being equal, i think it is clearer to use a different method name than to use differently-named arguments17:39
srichtermgedmin: if it gets approved; please comment on the proposal in favor of it :-)17:39
benji_yorksrichter, I don't want to make a pre-mature choice on that, some people will want to use a DOM-ish API, some xpath, some beautiful soup, some lxml.17:39
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srichterbenji_york: DOM takes too long to inspect17:40
srichterone of the greatest benefits of testbrowser is how fast I can verify correctly working code.17:42
benji_yorksrichter, by "DOM takes too long to inspect" do you mean "too long to write tests" or "too long to run"17:42
srichtertoo long to write tests17:43
srichterits too much code17:43
srichterif I can say: browser.getElementString('s:div/id=foo') and it returns that sub-element as text, it would be great17:44
srichter(note: I do not know much about XPath, so the XPath string might be wrong)17:44
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benji_yorksrichter, that's why I don't want to declare the "one true way" of verifying document structure and contents.17:51
philiKONsrichter, support anguenot's lxml proposal if you want to be able to do this in z3 tests17:52
srichterI have done so multiple times; I actually asked anguenot to write the proposal ;-)17:53
philiKONah :)17:53
philiKONgoodie then17:53
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faassenyeah, support lxml! :)17:55
faassenanyway, a question about the catalog and sorting.17:55
faassenam I correct that the catalog right now doesn't implement sorting at all, right?17:55
faassenI'm looking into a batched result implementation based on a catalog result set.17:56
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faassenit should also be sorted.17:56
faassenand it should be relatively efficient.17:56
faassenanyone has such a beast for zope 3 lying about?17:56
srichterI think the catalog does not support sorting17:56
faassenright, I think not either.17:56
srichterI have some batching code in bugtracker17:56
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faassenor if so, it's very carefully hidden. perhaps the underlying btrees have a knob for sorting.17:57
srichterST recently developed similar batching code17:57
faassenI'll take a look at the bugtracker.17:57
faassendoes it also do sorting?17:57
srichterthe batching in bugtracker is based on the Z2 equivalent, I think17:57
srichterI think you have to sort yourself first17:57
philiKONbatching really isn't that hard; the sorting is17:58
faassenyeah, efficient sorting would be.17:59
faassenI mean, I could simply sort the entire result set.17:59
faassenbut that means waking all the objects at once. perhaps that's tolerable.18:00
srichtershrug, addMenuItem does not support layers? :-(18:02
faassenI guess for performance I could also dump the result list in a session or something.18:03
faassenanyway, I'll try it without performance first. :)18:04
srichtermenu items in general don't support the layer attribute; its in the handler, just not in the directive schema18:04
faassenthanks for the hint to look at the bugtracker, srichter18:04
srichterno problem18:04
philiKONsrichter, ouch18:06
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srichterI guess that should be fixed for RC 218:07
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MJWe need Casey...18:22
* MJ read up about catalog sorting18:22
srichterfor what?18:22
srichterah, I see :-)18:22
MJHe did a great job on Z2 catalog sorting..18:23
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srichterhey all, is there something one should know about includeOverrides?18:48
srichterbenji_york: do you use includeOverrides?18:48
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benji_yorksrichter, sorry, away for lunch... yes I do, why?18:57
srichterbenji_york: because it does not work for me18:59
srichterI cannot override an addMenuItem18:59
srichterit is probably because during the menu item registration process many more things get registered18:59
srichterand one of those probably gets not correctly replaced18:59
benji_yorkahh, I've had similar problems and haven't spent the time to figure it out  :(19:07
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mkerrinsrichter: do you have a couple of minutes20:24
srichtermkerrin: yes20:25
srichtermkerrin: so you don't want to talk to me afterall? ;-)20:26
mkerrinyes - just seen you - I have started looking at this Twisted proposal.20:27
mkerrinIf I am not wrong then most of the proposal is componitizing the server code.20:27
mkerrinright - need to figure out how to do this20:30
srichterwhat specifically?20:31
mkerrinI was looking at a global utility to start all servers (which we will probable need) but I can't seem to figure out how to handle each of the server types20:31
mkerrini.e. Twisted has SSL server types, and ZServer doesn't20:31
srichterwe should first try to analyze the problem20:31
srichteroh, I see20:31
srichterthere will be a and package20:32
srichterboth come with separate zope.conf schema20:32
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mkerrinand (I think) because otherwise we will be loading the zserver code all the time20:33
srichterno, the components that are shared between the two must be factored out20:34
srichterso yes, maybe have
srichterno, actually not :-)20:34
srichterwe will leave totally alone20:34
srichterwe just say it is there for BBB and if people want to use the old server stuff20:34
mkerrinbut I was thinking of keeping has the common component20:34
srichterwe will not touch
srichterand probably not reuse much of it, or is there a lot of useful code in there?20:35 which is called by all current Zope3 instances, logging and database configuration20:36
srichterthis code needs some abstraction and we might be able to move it to startup or something like that20:37 that is20:38
mkerrinright - for, and the basic zope.conf configuration but still without the SSL server types20:40
srichterzope.conf will only support SSL when one uses twisted20:42
srichterand twisted will be the default (I think)20:42
mkerrinyes - but for sftp I ended up creating a third server type20:43
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srichterok, that's no problem20:44
srichtersftp is also only loaded/supported with twisted20:44
mkerrinI think it kind of is. I am trying to find a global utility for both the ZServer and the Twisted server which I can call which is start all servers20:45
srichterah, you see, if twisted is used, only twisted server types are registered20:46
srichterso, you can simply say: zapi.getAllUtilitiesFor(IServerType)20:46
mkerrinright - so in the zope.conf I specify which ZCML server to load - much like the which site.zcml file to load.20:47
srichterI think we will have 2 site.zcmls20:48
srichtersite-zserver.zcml and site-twisted.zcml20:48
mkerrinThis is actually my first idea which I have some how lost track off20:48
mkerrinCool - this is suddenly clearer20:49
philiKONsrichter, couldn't this be unified somehow? e.g. only one zope.conf schema20:51
philiKONand one zconfig directive20:51
philiKONtwisted and zservers would register server types with different names, maybe?20:51
srichterno, because twisted needs also SSL info20:52
srichterwe are planning to fade out, so we want to leave it as it is20:52
srichterJim suggested 2 schemas and I tend to agree20:53
srichterthe more we try to factor out common code the uglier it will be20:53
srichterand its not like we are hooking up new servers all the time20:53
* mgedmin is sometimes slightly annoyed that there's zapi.provideUtility and ztapi.provideUtility, and the order of arguments is reversed between the two20:55
srichterI think we should concetrate on the use cases that we really want to implement: allow custom requests and make it really easy to hook up HTTP-related protocols20:56
srichtermgedmin: we are fading out ztapi20:56
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mkerrinsrichter: are you talking talking about making a name utility out of like say IPublicationRequestFactory and then specify this in the zope.conf file inside a server type option21:07
srichteror leave it even unnamed21:13
srichterjust to have a way to override the setting21:13
mkerrinunnamed = default request factory.21:14
srichterfor example21:15
srichteror just have them always be unnamed21:15
srichterbut allow in ZCML to override the registration21:16
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roymFolks, I have a schema TextLine field called 'foo'; I am making a23:12
roymcustom edit.html page... how would I (in a ZPT page) make the23:12
roymauto-generated edit view for 'foo' display?23:12
roymI sort of got the impression (from srichter's) book that23:12
roymview/foo_widget would work, but it doesn't :(23:12
srichteryeah that should work23:13
srichterdo you use the editform directive?23:14
roymoh - no I didn't... let me look it up; thanks.23:14
roymactually, if I were to use the <page> directive, would I be able23:14
srichteryeah, macros are only available in combination with the editform, addform, or form directive23:14
srichternope, does not work23:14
srichteryou would have to do the setup of the widgets manually23:15
roymsigh - it would be a nice feature someday to allow general re-use.23:15
philiKONroym, you can do general reuse23:15
srichterbecause pages are not bound to schemas23:15
philiKONroym, just initialize the widget yourself in python23:16
srichteryou can use the new form directive23:16
roymIf I initialize the widget in python, wouldn't I end up having to create a23:16
roym<page> directive for each widget?23:17
philiKONroym, no, no... just write a python class that accompanies your ZPT23:17
philiKONacquire the widget there23:17
philiKONand initialize it23:17
srichterI think your safest bet is using the new browser:form directive documented above23:17
roymquick tangent - do you know of a directive to allow an empty string as a valid value in a vocabulary?23:19
roymI have a Choice field...23:20
srichterthat should work23:20
roymok - thanks.23:21
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MJI can't seem to get a localUtility registered in such a way that I can add it23:25
_drzoltronis it possible to connect to unixODBC from Z3 ?23:26
MJI see the <browser:tool> in the SiteManagement view23:26
srichterdid you use the <localutility> directive?23:26
srichtermmh, ok23:26
srichterdid you use an addMenuItem?23:26
srichter(I guess you just copied existing code anyways)23:26
MJI extrapolated from Philips book more23:27
MJPhillip (double l)23:27
_drzoltronI read in a zope3-dev IRC log that a DMHarden managed to connect and wonder if his code might be somewhere ....23:27
MJOr was it one l :)23:27
_drzoltronhe says: "DMHardenI have hacked together an ODBC DA based off some CVS source I found on Google - srichter's :)"23:28
MJsrichter: so I need a localUtility, a browser:tool and a browser:addMenuItem?23:28
_drzoltronsrichter: do you know what he is talking about ?23:28
srichterMJ: yeah, you need addMenuItem for the menu entry23:29
srichter_drzoltron: not wiothout more context...23:29
srichterI think several people have connected to Oracle23:29
srichterusing various dirvers23:29
_drzoltronsrichter: ->> close to the bottom of the page23:30
srichterif you get Python conencted to Oracle, then Zope is no problem23:30
_drzoltronsrichter: well I got mdbtools working with unixODBC23:30
_drzoltronmaybe I should look into pyODB ?23:31
MJsrichter: thanks23:31
srichterdon't ask me; I hjave no clue about ODBC23:31
srichterMJ: no problemo23:31
srichterI just know that if you get Python connected to ODBC, then the Zope 3 adapter is the simple part23:32
srichter(even if you have to write it yourself)23:32
_drzoltronsrichter: exactly !23:32
_drzoltronsounds good23:32
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