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| J1m | Waaaaaaa. Zope 3 tests are broken. Waaaaa | 00:37 |
|---|---|---|
| mp | which one zope3? release? | 00:37 |
| J1m | trunk | 00:37 |
| J1m | The new testbrowser code has a failing import | 00:38 |
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| febb | Hi all | 01:31 |
| febb | anyone experienced with Zope 3.1.0 database adatpter for Postgresql ? | 01:32 |
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| xenru | febb: is there any problem? | 01:47 |
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| runyaga | zcml is so opaque ;-( | 01:48 |
| runyaga | i feel like i'm stabbing in the dark | 01:48 |
| xenru | runyaga: feel the same | 01:49 |
| runyaga | yay!! it worked | 01:49 |
| runyaga | good lord | 01:49 |
| runyaga | w/o python skills your d00med | 01:49 |
| xenru | may be good IDE will change situation | 01:49 |
| runyaga | doubt that | 01:51 |
| xenru | If IDE will auto generate all code ;) | 01:52 |
| runyaga | if IDE will plug into my brain and do my work | 01:52 |
| xenru | yeah ;) | 01:52 |
| xenru | then let it also go to the market and bay food | 01:54 |
| gnosis | food? whats that? | 01:55 |
| gnosis | hi all | 01:55 |
| xenru | we talking about IDE for zope3 | 01:56 |
| gnosis | that would be cool | 01:56 |
| xenru | I think it must auto generate zcml and bay food | 01:56 |
| runyaga | SPE is cool | 01:56 |
| gnosis | doubt i'll see one in my lifetime ;) | 01:56 |
| gnosis | SPE is good, that is what i use | 01:56 |
| xenru | runyaga think it must be pluged-in mind | 01:56 |
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| xenru | my favorite is WingIDE | 01:57 |
| gnosis | i'm a programming retard, not sure pluggining it into my mind will work | 01:57 |
| gnosis | cost money doesn't it xenru? | 01:57 |
| xenru | gnosis: yes it cost some money | 01:58 |
| gnosis | i just spent my yearly budget on phillipes book..... should be here on the 13th or so | 01:58 |
| xenru | Code Intelligence spee-up my development | 02:00 |
| xenru | s/spee/speed/ | 02:00 |
| gnosis | Code Intelligence? | 02:00 |
| xenru | http://wingware.com/wingper | 02:01 |
| gnosis | cool, i'll check it out | 02:01 |
| gnosis | 35 bucks isn't that bad | 02:02 |
| gnosis | perhaps i can find it in my budget | 02:02 |
| runyaga | try spe | 02:05 |
| runyaga | stani python editor | 02:05 |
| runyaga | really nice | 02:05 |
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| gnosis | whats the diff between pro and personal? you know? | 02:10 |
| gnosis | never mind, found the info | 02:11 |
| gnosis | looks really good xenru | 02:16 |
| xenru | auto-complete save my time | 02:17 |
| gnosis | yea, i love that.... just nice not to have to read manuals to figure out what methods are available | 02:18 |
| gnosis | i don't see anywhere to just run the current file | 02:21 |
| xenru | f5 | 02:26 |
| gnosis | ah | 02:26 |
| gnosis | oh... same as debug | 02:27 |
| gnosis | that is different from others | 02:27 |
| xenru | in IDE you need to run only if you need to debug | 02:27 |
| xenru | IMHO | 02:27 |
| gnosis | right :) | 02:27 |
| gnosis | just different from what i'm used to | 02:28 |
| xenru | sorry I need to sleep, in Moscow 3:27 now | 02:28 |
| gnosis | much more polished than spe or pywin | 02:28 |
| gnosis | nice chatting, take care | 02:28 |
| xenru | i like it | 02:28 |
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| gdsgdsgvdd | I am working on zope 3.0.1, trying to create a form -- kind of registration form for some set of seminars | 07:27 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | the form has to have a constraint that-- one user cannot select more than 3 seminars | 07:27 |
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| gdsgdsgvdd | how do i create some choice functionality in the form for the user to select more than one option from a list | 07:28 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | can someone help me with this please | 07:28 |
| philiKON | so, you're using schema-based editforms? | 07:29 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | yes | 07:29 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | i was thinking of using list | 07:29 |
| philiKON | then say List(..., max_length=3) | 07:30 |
| philiKON | in your schema | 07:30 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | but i need the user to see a list of options and a check box infront of each option.. for the user to select | 07:30 |
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| gdsgdsgvdd | and the user should not be able to select more than 3 options at a time | 07:31 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | makes sense?? | 07:31 |
| philiKON | yes, sort of | 07:32 |
| philiKON | i suggest a different approach then | 07:32 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | ok | 07:32 |
| philiKON | the list of seminars comes from a vocabulary | 07:33 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | the list will be static.. | 07:33 |
| philiKON | static as in set-in-stone into the python code? | 07:33 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | yes | 07:33 |
| philiKON | then put it into the interface | 07:34 |
| philiKON | use a lot of Bools | 07:34 |
| philiKON | well, not just a lot. use a Bool for every seminar | 07:34 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | can you elaborate a little......:) | 07:34 |
| philiKON | class ISelectSeminars(Interface): | 07:35 |
| philiKON | seminar1 = Bool(title=u"Seminar1") | 07:35 |
| philiKON | seminar2 = Bool(title=u"Seminar 2") | 07:35 |
| philiKON | ... | 07:35 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | then where does this get called | 07:36 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | i am sorry.. i am a stater... | 07:36 |
| philiKON | man, i dont' have the time right now to explain all of zope 3 | 07:36 |
| philiKON | there's some good documentation out there | 07:36 |
| philiKON | when i doubt, read http://worldcookery.com | 07:36 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | thanks... that will help | 07:37 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | hey.. , just one quick question | 07:44 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | how to limit the user from not selecting more than 3 options | 07:44 |
| philiKON | javascript | 07:44 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | will, using TAL condition attribute in pageview.pt work | 07:45 |
| philiKON | i don't think so | 07:46 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | ok.. thanks | 07:46 |
| febb | Hola nuevamente. | 08:05 |
| zagy | moin | 08:11 |
| philiKON | moin | 08:12 |
| zagy | so philiKON, how are you? | 08:16 |
| philiKON | pretty good, thank you | 08:17 |
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| bob2 | hrm | 08:41 |
| bob2 | should 3.1 work with python 2,4? | 08:42 |
| MacYET_ | what is the recommended version? | 08:47 |
| bob2 | 2.3 | 08:52 |
| philiKON | recommended is 2.3.5 | 08:53 |
| philiKON | but it works equally well with 2.4.1 | 08:53 |
| MacYET_ | but trunk does no longer work with 2.3 | 08:53 |
| bob2 | hm, I thought mechtest was in the trunk | 08:53 |
| MacYET_ | z3 hacken ist wie gülle entsorgen | 08:54 |
| philiKON | MacYET_, no, the trunk requires python2.4 | 08:59 |
| philiKON | bob2, yes, zope.testbrowser | 08:59 |
| philiKON | MacYET_, lol | 08:59 |
| MacYET_ | philiKON: tarek and i really had our fun yesterday | 09:00 |
| MacYET_ | torturing our brains with weird interface constructions | 09:00 |
| MacYET_ | just for doing a stupid task :) | 09:00 |
| philiKON | yup. of course, you were crawling through the cooling vents and cable ducts :) | 09:00 |
| MacYET_ | the whole z3 publisher looks like a piece of **** packed together and secured with duct tape | 09:04 |
| MacYET_ | just kidding | 09:04 |
| philiKON | but it's good that it's getting detangled by srichter, J1m and you guys | 09:05 |
| philiKON | the whole WSGI compliance thing made the publisher itself simpler | 09:05 |
| philiKON | or, let's at least say, it made the API clearer | 09:05 |
| MacYET_ | we#re just doing a tiny part | 09:05 |
| MacYET_ | and introducing more and more interface | 09:06 |
| MacYET_ | sick world :) | 09:06 |
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| sm | "Break Zope3 free from the bowels of the development section on zope.org. We are at the second release, yet it is still not presented as a viable environment by zope.org." | 09:27 |
| d2m | hear, hear | 09:27 |
| philiKON | sm, i couldn't have said it better | 09:27 |
| MacYET_ | zope.org is doomed | 09:27 |
| MacYET_ | dig a hole, burry it | 09:28 |
| d2m | tried zope3.org already ? | 09:28 |
| philiKON | sm, others like martijn and myself have advocated a decent zope 3 home on zope.org for years | 09:28 |
| philiKON | i don't think i like a separate zope3.org website | 09:28 |
| philiKON | zope 2 and zope 3 are supposed to converge | 09:28 |
| philiKON | why diverge for the project websitees? | 09:28 |
| sm | what does it take to kill zope.org, is what I wonder | 09:28 |
| MacYET_ | some quys are working on a collaboration site at the sprint | 09:28 |
| philiKON | MacYET_, yes, so i heard. i really wish this had been discussed openly before | 09:29 |
| philiKON | MacYET_, you know, we require a freakin' proposal for every little code detail... | 09:29 |
| philiKON | but administrative things like that are just "decided"... | 09:29 |
| MacYET_ | philiKON: not my job:) | 09:29 |
| MacYET_ | the more you propose, the more you discuss -> nothing will happen :) | 09:30 |
| bob2 | hm, trunk feels snappier when loading pages than 3.0 did | 09:31 |
| sm | no offense intended btw d2m - you and others have done fine work on it | 09:31 |
| sm | but it needs to be replaced with something simpler | 09:31 |
| philiKON | agreed. | 09:31 |
| d2m | nevermind, i heard srichter talking on a distinct http://zope3.org (and its already live, well somehow) | 09:32 |
| philiKON | there used to be one | 09:32 |
| philiKON | he built it with an alpha of x3 3.0 | 09:32 |
| philiKON | ages ago | 09:32 |
| philiKON | selfhosting zope 3 is fine to me | 09:32 |
| sm | however this is noone's fault but Jim's and other ZC heads | 09:32 |
| philiKON | i just don't think we just split zope.org into zope2.org and zope3.org | 09:32 |
| sm | the zope 3 wiki's url is a joke | 09:32 |
| philiKON | yes | 09:32 |
| * sm rants | 09:32 | |
| philiKON | absolutely | 09:33 |
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| d2m | lessions learned from cmf.zope.org | 09:33 |
| philiKON | martijn and i have been suggesting to physically move it at least to zope.org/Zope3 | 09:33 |
| philiKON | over the past 14 months or so | 09:33 |
| MacYET_ | take plone for zope3.org :)= | 09:33 |
| philiKON | kill zope3.org | 09:33 |
| philiKON | make a good zope.org home for both zope 2 and zope 3 | 09:33 |
| philiKON | we want convergence, damnit | 09:33 |
| d2m | i'm with you | 09:34 |
| sm | do you think total convergence of the sites/docs is a good idea ? won't that be too confusing for good while yet ? | 09:34 |
| philiKON | Zope 2 will evolve and include more and more zope 3 technology | 09:34 |
| philiKON | it already does | 09:34 |
| philiKON | so, why try to rpesent the image of two separate zope systems? | 09:35 |
| philiKON | why still treat zope 3 like the alien and have a separate websitge for it? | 09:35 |
| MacYET_ | at the end zope 2 is fat enough to eat zope 3 completely | 09:35 |
| sm | well that's what I was saying earlier | 09:35 |
| philiKON | my point is, if we want people to actually evaluate whether they should use Zope 2+Five, CMF2, Zope 3 or whatever, we need a central place where they can find out about this technology | 09:36 |
| sm | it seems to be going that way, since most zope users want to keep their z2 investment | 09:36 |
| philiKON | the Most-FAQ nowadays is " which zope should i use? 2 or 3?" | 09:36 |
| sm | but re sites - philiKON I agree with you, except I'm not sure how to document both (all) versions in one place and not be confusing | 09:36 |
| philiKON | this needs to be the top headline on a new zope.org | 09:36 |
| sm | that nuxeo z2 vs z3 faq was good, did you see | 09:37 |
| philiKON | it was okay | 09:37 |
| philiKON | if i hav esome time, i'll write some comments on it | 09:37 |
| MacYET_ | reminds me of a dilbert "which database should be buy? a green or a blue one?" | 09:37 |
| philiKON | heh | 09:37 |
| d2m | :) | 09:37 |
| MacYET_ | bbl...sprinting | 09:38 |
| philiKON | sm, i don't think the docs won't be too confusing. if the layout and structure of the site is clear and not too complex (like it is now), people will understand what they're reading docs about | 09:38 |
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| sm | philiKON, but you're right, we just have to figure out a way | 09:38 |
| d2m | we need to check whats in the bag from ZF for zope.org first | 09:38 |
| bob2 | so, does ZODB store objects, or just all the attributes of an object? | 09:38 |
| sm | we can't afford to focus on more than one site | 09:38 |
| philiKON | bob2, well. it stores pickles | 09:39 |
| philiKON | bob2, and pickles usually recreate the whole object | 09:39 |
| philiKON | bob2, unless you chose not to have it do that | 09:39 |
| d2m | btw, #zope-web is a nice place to talk zope.org related things | 09:39 |
| philiKON | sm, exactly!! also my point | 09:39 |
| philiKON | sm, at least we have some volunteers for zope.org. who will volunteer to work for zope3.org? | 09:39 |
| bob2 | philiKON: so, of I update the definition of a class (say add an attribute), will it be defined on reconsitututed objects? | 09:40 |
| philiKON | bob2, depends on where you add the attribute | 09:40 |
| sm | the sites will attract volunteers to the degree they make it easy for volunteers to get things done | 09:40 |
| bob2 | philiKON: is the class-attribute vs set-in-__init__ difference important? | 09:40 |
| philiKON | bob2, of course | 09:40 |
| bob2 | right | 09:40 |
| philiKON | bob2, set in __init__ means they're set on self. that's the object | 09:41 |
| philiKON | bob2, old objects won't have those attributes, of course | 09:41 |
| philiKON | bob2, if it's in the class level, they will all have it | 09:41 |
| philiKON | sm, d2m, i just wish that this sort of discussion we're having now had been the matter of a public IRC chat in the zope community. the fact that we have to hear through gossip that people are working on a new site sucks | 09:42 |
| philiKON | but it's stereotypical of the zope community, in a way | 09:42 |
| sm | philiKON: I think people are burned out from past attempts to work together, on zope-web list etc. | 09:43 |
| philiKON | hrm | 09:43 |
| sm | there's a feeling that skunkworks projects can make more progress | 09:43 |
| sm | at least to break the logjam | 09:44 |
| philiKON | reminds me of how zope3 started out | 09:44 |
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| febb | Hi all again. | 09:56 |
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| bob2 | it'd be so much less annoying if z3labs had real live demos | 10:03 |
| bob2 | instead of craptacular flash | 10:03 |
| philiKON | tell them | 10:04 |
| * MacSprint is throwing away yesterdays work | 10:04 | |
| philiKON | :) | 10:05 |
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| MacSprint | do you say "mimetype" or "content-type" in z3? | 10:08 |
| philiKON | depends on what you mean | 10:09 |
| philiKON | a content type is typically an interface marked with IContentType | 10:09 |
| MacSprint | request mimetypes | 10:09 |
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| MacSprint | text/plain | 10:10 |
| MacSprint | zope/sucks | 10:10 |
| philiKON | that's a mime type to me | 10:10 |
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| MacSprint | is there some kind of generic registry to register multiple objects under the same key (sorted)? | 10:16 |
| philiKON | utility registry? | 10:17 |
| philiKON | key -> interface | 10:18 |
| philiKON | sort -> by name | 10:18 |
| MacSprint | I have multiple objects i need to register under the same key but I must keep the ordering | 10:22 |
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| MacSprint | basicially a registry of key -> ordered_list_of_things | 10:22 |
| philiKON | yeah, what's wrong with using the utility registry for that and sorting by name? | 10:23 |
| MacSprint | the utility registry keeps track of the sort order at registration time? | 10:24 |
| philiKON | the utility registry doesn't order at all | 10:25 |
| MacSprint | writing my own one .) | 10:25 |
| philiKON | the utility registry just registers (Interface, name) -> some object | 10:25 |
| philiKON | you can use the 'name' to order things | 10:26 |
| philiKON | don't reinvent the wheel if you don't have to... | 10:26 |
| MacSprint | haha, this advice coming from your mouth? :-) | 10:26 |
| MacSprint | that's not z3ish | 10:26 |
| philiKON | it's very z3ish | 10:26 |
| MacSprint | use you register utils as handler1, handler2, handler3 and determine the order by sorting by name? | 10:27 |
| philiKON | why not | 10:28 |
| philiKON | what are handler1, handler2, etc.? | 10:28 |
| MacSprint | because handler10 < handler1 | 10:28 |
| MacSprint | alphasorting sux with numbers :) | 10:28 |
| philiKON | ah, 'handler1' are their names? | 10:28 |
| philiKON | well choose better names :) | 10:29 |
| philiKON | or just use str'ed integers and int them back for sorting | 10:29 |
| MacSprint | hm....this is z3ish? | 10:29 |
| philiKON | anyways, what kind of objects are you registering there anyways? | 10:29 |
| philiKON | probably not | 10:29 |
| MacSprint | anyway...utilites sux for our purpose | 10:30 |
| philiKON | ok, what's your purpose anyways? | 10:30 |
| philiKON | what sorts of objects are we talking about here? | 10:30 |
| MacSprint | let me code and don't ask :) | 10:30 |
| philiKON | hey, you asked for some advice, dude | 10:30 |
| MacSprint | yeah but utility registration is not the right way to do... | 10:31 |
| * MacSprint is away: Blicket auf zum Retterblick, Alle reuig Zarten, Euch zu sel'gem Glueck, Dankend umzuarten! | 10:31 | |
| philiKON | if you say so... | 10:31 |
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| Jonex | Translate? In what way, is Swedish needed? | 11:08 |
| philiKON | Jonex, sure! | 11:09 |
| philiKON | Jonex, zope 3 has a UI | 11:09 |
| philiKON | which can appear in different languages | 11:09 |
| philiKON | e.g. in Swedish | 11:09 |
| philiKON | sashav has been working on it, AFAIK | 11:10 |
| philiKON | but not too much apparently | 11:10 |
| philiKON | see here: https://launchpad.net/products/zope/+series/zope3.1/+pots/zope | 11:10 |
| * sashav hides in his work | 11:10 | |
| philiKON | :) | 11:11 |
| Jonex | Hmm, http://www.zope.org/Members/tim_one/ won't load for me atm. | 11:13 |
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| Jonex | When it says, @currently published elsewhere@ should I copy it from there if the translation is corect?@ | 11:16 |
| Jonex | Also, how do I get context? | 11:17 |
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| philiKON | Jonex, what are you talking about regarding "currently published elsewhere" ? | 11:24 |
| Jonex | philiKON: it says so on the translation page for some items. | 11:25 |
| d2m | will the zope.app.renderer SourceTypes be restricted to plain,stx and rest ? do you think about adding html and xml ? | 11:25 |
| philiKON | d2m, what would those source renderers do? | 11:25 |
| philiKON | Jonex, ah, that. i'm not 100% sure what that means, maybe you can ask on #launchpad. the guys will tell you | 11:26 |
| philiKON | Jonex, now, your second question: which context are you talking about? | 11:26 |
| d2m | html could run the text through htmltidy, xml could check for wellformedness | 11:26 |
| philiKON | a) htmltidy isn't isntalled on every system. zope 3 should not behave differnetly either if htmltidy was installed or not | 11:27 |
| philiKON | b) renderers are supposed to produce html | 11:27 |
| Jonex | phhiliKON: An english word usually can be translated to different swedish ones depending on the context they are used in. | 11:27 |
| philiKON | d2m, checking wellformedness is not the task of a renderer | 11:27 |
| philiKON | d2m, this is really something like a schema constraint when storing the data | 11:28 |
| philiKON | Jonex, ah, yes. the "Located in" is the context we have right now. i'm afraid it won't get much better than that | 11:29 |
| d2m | philiKON: i see, so html could just pass through and xml could produce a html rep of the xml source then | 11:29 |
| philiKON | d2m, yes, html would just pass through (maybe converted to xhtml at least with python's included batteries, if possible). as for xml, i don't really know what the right thing there is to do | 11:30 |
| philiKON | so, let's not worry about xml | 11:30 |
| philiKON | unless you have a usecase?!? | 11:30 |
| Jonex | Hmm, there doesn't seem to be any order of priority of what should be changedm that's bad since I guess some things are more important than others? | 11:30 |
| d2m | just add the formats to your wcsite.page component | 11:30 |
| philiKON | yeah, but what's your usecase for XML input? | 11:30 |
| d2m | philiKON: not to have to use a file for that | 11:31 |
| philiKON | if you just want the XML sourcecode printed in the browser, you could choose the plaintext input method, right? | 11:31 |
| d2m | philiKON: ok, did not try that | 11:31 |
| philiKON | Jonex, yeah, sort of... zope3 should have different domains, especially for the demos. | 11:31 |
| Jonex | Is there any mirror of the win libraries for zope3 somewhere? (http://www.zope.org/Members/tim_one/) | 11:32 |
| philiKON | i don't think so :( | 11:33 |
| philiKON | Jonex, btw, you can also export the translations to a .po file and edit them using poedit or kbabel | 11:33 |
| philiKON | i found this much more comfortable | 11:33 |
| Jonex | Ok, I'll look at it when I get home. :) | 11:38 |
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| Jonex | What was the command that had to be used when you follow the quick start in Windows? | 11:44 |
| Jonex | Hmm, oh, I guesss only benjji knows, he's not here atm. :/ | 11:45 |
| Jonex | Why is the zope site so slow? | 11:48 |
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| VladDrak | 'llo | 11:55 |
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| philiKON | VladDrak, hi. might wanna come to #z3-base for a sec to get together with andres? he's also an sqlos user... | 12:04 |
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| Jonex | "error: Python was built with version 7.1 of Visual Studio, and extensions need t" | 12:21 |
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| Jonex | "o be built with the same version of the compiler, but it isn't installed." | 12:22 |
| Jonex | What is that? Do I have to get vosial Studio to use zope? | 12:22 |
| Jonex | *Visual | 12:22 |
| VladDrak | does anyone know anything about ajung's publication work? | 12:22 |
| faassen | Jonex: I suspect you're asking setup.py to compile Zope. | 12:22 |
| VladDrak | looks usefull for my amfserver code (currently using the same hacks as jsonserver) | 12:22 |
| faassen | Jonex: but I don't know mucha bout windows. | 12:23 |
| Jonex | faasen: Well, I had to do that when I tried it at home yesterday or it wouldn't work for me. It was benji_york that helped me then. | 12:24 |
| Jonex | It worked then, but that was on a another computer with Visual Studio installed. | 12:24 |
| Jonex | The command: python setup.py -q build_ext -i install_data --install-dir . | 12:25 |
| faassen | that is a command to build the C extnensions. | 12:25 |
| Jonex | :/ Can't they have them built? | 12:25 |
| faassen | Jonex: you appear to be typing the linux command. | 12:26 |
| faassen | Jonex: didn't you download the compiled C extensions yesterday? | 12:26 |
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| faassen | http://www.zope.org/Members/tim_one/Zope3-Py2.4-pyd.zip, unzip them into root of zope checkout. | 12:29 |
| faassen | it sucks there's no zope 3 windows installer though. | 12:29 |
| srichter | for the releases there is | 12:31 |
| faassen | okay, then the quickstart guide shouldn't talk aobut svn. | 12:31 |
| faassen | I think the main reason it does is formlib. | 12:31 |
| faassen | but that's a fundamental issue with the quickstart guide; wish it talked about the release. | 12:31 |
| faassen | good to know the releases have a windows installer; should've realized it does as the announcement said so. | 12:32 |
| srichter | jinty has developed a nightly TAR ball builder for SchoolTool that we could probably do that for Zope 3 as well | 12:32 |
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| srichter | in fact we use that TAR ball for testing | 12:33 |
| jinty | srichter: I got tom to donate some schooltool cpu cycles. So soon I will be building nightly zope 3 tarballs. | 12:39 |
| MacSprint | test.py --skip-functional is not working? | 12:39 |
| faassen | jinty: that'd be cool. | 12:40 |
| jinty | not going to distribute them, only test | 12:40 |
| jinty | I have most of the setup already, but somehow the test runner can't find any tests:( | 12:40 |
| Jonex | Faasen I hav downloaded those files, but it didn't help. | 12:43 |
| Jonex | Should I use the release insted, will I still be able to follow the quick start guide? | 12:44 |
| mgedmin | Jonex, the start guide needs zope.formlib, which is not in the release | 12:44 |
| Jonex | So I guess I'll have to get a compiler? | 12:45 |
| mgedmin | I think it would be really simple to just copy that package from the checkout to the release (I'm sure it doesn't use extension modules) | 12:45 |
| Jonex | The releaqse use Python 2.4 right? | 12:45 |
| mgedmin | Jonex, how about getting a real operating system? | 12:45 |
| mgedmin | the 3.1 release runs both with 2.3 and 2.4 | 12:46 |
| mgedmin | there are precompiled extension modules for Win32 for both 2.3 and 2.4 | 12:46 |
| mgedmin | but Zope Corp. officially supports only 2.3 | 12:46 |
| VladDrak | formlib isn't complex to install but its not trivial either | 12:47 |
| Jonex | mgedmin, I'm not sure the persons using this computer to RIP printing films would appreciate if I installed Linux. | 12:47 |
| mgedmin | ain't it fun... | 12:47 |
| VladDrak | it requires 2.4 and needs to be installed in your zope/ folder, not your instance's lib/python | 12:47 |
| Jonex | I think this should be mentioned in the quick start. I'm probably not the only one running Windows without Visual Studio... | 12:48 |
| * mgedmin still thinks using the precompiled .pyd files would be the easiest way | 12:48 | |
| d2m | regarding formlib: did you manage to install it in the instance ? i had to copy it to lib/python/zope in the base install | 12:48 |
| Jonex | Wich ones? WhenI used those I got a traceback. benji_yourk told me to run that command, then it worked. | 12:49 |
| Jonex | I really want to start coding. Should I use something else instead, and hope that Zope3 gets more mature in time for my next project? | 12:51 |
| philiKON | zope 3.1 is pretty mature | 12:52 |
| Jonex | Not documentation-wise. | 12:53 |
| Jonex | The only start documentation I find is a weird pdf slideshow thingy, that's not really usable. | 12:54 |
| Jonex | I've spent all morning trying to get this up, if I'd used TurboGears I would have a simple system doing what I want running by now. :/ | 12:54 |
| philiKON | Jonex, http://worldcookery.com | 12:54 |
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| * mgedmin waits for srichter to pitch his book... | 12:55 | |
| Jonex | philiKON it'll take a week to get that... | 12:55 |
| mgedmin | http://dev.zope.org/Zope3 is taking ages to appear in my browser... | 12:56 |
| philiKON | Jonex, i doubt that... tried your local book store? | 12:56 |
| Jonex | philiKON, I haven't looked, but I really doubt that they even have a book about Python, they may have a "Java for Dummies"... | 12:57 |
| * mgedmin decides that dev.zope.org is down | 12:58 | |
| philiKON | Jonex, i'm not saying they have it in stock, but in germany, most local book stores (even in the country side) can order books within 24 hours, foreign books might take a day longer | 12:58 |
| Jonex | mgedmin, it isn't it's randomly down. | 12:58 |
| philiKON | let's decide that it's down and be done with it :) | 12:58 |
| philiKON | Jonex, there's a good tutorial by Jeff Shell that is offline right now. he's granted me permission to put it up on my site but i haven't recieved the text from him yet | 12:59 |
| Jonex | philiKON: They usually can't get books faster than I can by order on the web. Also, I'm not very thick on money atm. :/ I'd really want to be sure I'm gonna use Zope before I start buying expensive books. | 13:00 |
| mgedmin | Jonex, there's also the Zope 3 developers book that is available online (as HTML and as PDF), as well as in paper book form | 13:01 |
| mgedmin | http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/FrontPage/Zope3Book | 13:01 |
| philiKON | Jonex, that's a good point of course | 13:01 |
| philiKON | right, but again, it depends on zope.org being up :( | 13:01 |
| mgedmin | www.zope.org is up | 13:02 |
| mgedmin | dev.zope.org isn't | 13:02 |
| philiKON | ah | 13:02 |
| mgedmin | actually, both are | 13:02 |
| mgedmin | up | 13:02 |
| mgedmin | now | 13:02 |
| philiKON | well, don't worry, that'll change in a minute or two] | 13:02 |
| philiKON | :) | 13:02 |
| Jonex | That requires me to use make. I'm short on compilations tools at them moment. | 13:02 |
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| Jonex | Maybe I could compile it at home and take the installation with me to here? | 13:03 |
| philiKON | Jonex, if you're bound to windows, why not install cygwin? | 13:03 |
| philiKON | gives you a whole unix environmet | 13:03 |
| philiKON | and sets you free from windows limitations | 13:03 |
| mgedmin | actually, I believe you can successfully build extension modules with mingw | 13:04 |
| mgedmin | and those are compatible with the official python for win32 | 13:04 |
| mgedmin | at least that used to be the case with python 2.3 that used MSVC++ 6 | 13:04 |
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| mgedmin | (err, I'm not sure about the numbers) | 13:04 |
| Jonex | Where's the guide to do that then? | 13:04 |
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| mgedmin | somewhere in the distutils documentation | 13:05 |
| mgedmin | http://docs.python.org/inst/tweak-flags.html#SECTION000622000000000000000 | 13:05 |
| Jonex | Why isn't ther e a nightly installer? | 13:06 |
| mgedmin | good question | 13:06 |
| mgedmin | perhaps it isn't simple to build automatically? | 13:06 |
| philiKON | and someone would have to donate some nightly windows CPU cycles | 13:07 |
| mgedmin | usually, a nightly tarball/checkout, combined with Tim's precompiled PYDs, suffices | 13:07 |
| philiKON | maybe ChrisW? | 13:07 |
| mgedmin | I'm baffled as to why you are unable to use those | 13:07 |
| * Jonex gives up and installs visual studio | 13:09 | |
| Jonex | *tries to install | 13:10 |
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| Jonex | Eh, I think I'll use something else instead. What do you think works best, Ruby on Rails, TurboGears or Django for making an order handlng application? | 13:12 |
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| mgedmin | whatever you're most familiar with, I guess | 13:13 |
| * mgedmin never used any of the three frameworks Jonex mentioned | 13:14 | |
| * mgedmin saw the TurboGears screencast once, and that's it | 13:14 | |
| d2m | is it me or is it there problem with html entities in textarea ? '&lt;' modifies to '<' and finaly to '<' on third save -- how could this be verified ? | 13:15 |
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| mgedmin | d2m, more context, please | 13:16 |
| mgedmin | do you use a TextWidget? | 13:16 |
| d2m | i tried it with zpt page and the edit widget | 13:17 |
| mgedmin | interesting | 13:17 |
| mgedmin | let me try... | 13:17 |
| d2m | default zope3.1 release | 13:17 |
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| mgedmin | d2m, confirmed | 13:21 |
| d2m | same with 'file', content-type seems to make no difference | 13:22 |
| mgedmin | d2m, can you file a bug on http://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope3 ? | 13:22 |
| * mgedmin wants to check whether the URL is correct, but zope.org seems to be DOWN again! | 13:22 | |
| * mgedmin returns to work | 13:22 | |
| Jonex | Would it work better on OSX? | 13:23 |
| Jonex | Nothing seems to work on this computer. :/ | 13:24 |
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| philiKON | Jonex, sure. i'm developing zope3 on OSX | 13:25 |
| philiKON | works like a charm. osx is an excellent development platform | 13:25 |
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| * mgedmin has seen zope 3 starup taking 5x-10x slower on his coworker's powerbook than on his own thinkpad | 13:28 | |
| * mgedmin has seen his coworker struggle with fink and darwinports, and unable to get both pygtk and reportlab installed for any version of the python interpreter | 13:28 | |
| * mgedmin is therefore not convinced | 13:28 | |
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| philiKON | mgedmin, yes, with certain C libraries it sucks | 13:36 |
| philiKON | excellent python development platform | 13:36 |
| philiKON | i should say | 13:36 |
| philiKON | but even with some of those hurdles, i've so far managed to get everything running, even weird Python<->Fortran stuff | 13:37 |
| philiKON | speed is definitely an issue | 13:37 |
| philiKON | but i didn't buy the powerbook only for speed | 13:37 |
| philiKON | as for fink and darwinports: i usually just use the latter one and it works fine, at least wrt python versions... | 13:38 |
| * VladDrak 's had serious issues with fink | 13:38 | |
| VladDrak | but a very good recent experience with DP | 13:38 |
| * VladDrak 's wondering wheter to buy some sort of mac again | 13:38 | |
| * philiKON is really looking forward to intel mac laptops next year | 13:38 | |
| Jonex | Hmm, couldnt the zope parts that need compiling be recoded in Python instead? | 13:39 |
| philiKON | some are actually coded in python and the C part just exists for optimization purposes | 13:39 |
| philiKON | some aren't | 13:39 |
| Jonex | While I'm developing I don't care about performance, I just want it to work. :/ | 13:40 |
| philiKON | Jonex, exactly | 13:41 |
| mgedmin | OTOH low performance kills any chance of agility | 13:41 |
| philiKON | mgedmin, true. when the performance is very very poor | 13:41 |
| mgedmin | when you have to restart zope 3 and wait 15 seconds before you can see whether your change to the view code works or not | 13:42 |
| mgedmin | you're tempted to switch to a different workspace and read mail/web | 13:42 |
| Jonex | mgedmin: Well, many framworks are written solely in Python without being too slow. | 13:42 |
| mgedmin | yes | 13:42 |
| Jonex | Doing away with the restartsd wouldn't hurt though. :) | 13:43 |
| philiKON | mgedmin, btw, most of the struggles one has compiling stuff for OSX used to be because of apple's stupid framework vs. shared library stuff. i've seen those problems go away more and more. darwinports seems to maneuvre around it nicely | 13:43 |
| philiKON | mgedmin, most of the problems i always have is that compile docs are for linux systems and i'm usually just missing another compile opiton or compat library for BSD systems | 13:43 |
| * Jonex won't be able to write any code today either. :( | 13:45 | |
| Jonex | Oh, now zope.org works again. | 13:45 |
| mgedmin | heisenzope | 13:46 |
| mgedmin | eek, I hate subversion | 13:46 |
| mgedmin | sometimes | 13:46 |
| philiKON | heisenzope? | 13:46 |
| mgedmin | sometimes it is there, sometimes it is not | 13:47 |
| mgedmin | and you don't know which until you try to observe | 13:47 |
| philiKON | aaah | 13:47 |
| mgedmin | um, perhaps that would be shroedinzope? | 13:47 |
| philiKON | heisenberg :) | 13:48 |
| philiKON | Schroedinger's Zope :) | 13:48 |
| * mgedmin is not strong in physics | 13:48 | |
| Jonex | Hmm, could I copy the files installed by the 3.1 installer to the svn checkout to get the compiled files? | 13:48 |
| mgedmin | Jonex, it would work, I think | 13:49 |
| Jonex | Where is the files put? | 13:49 |
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| Jonex | This is really annoying, there should be a downloadable version of the docs. So I won't have to rely on zope.org being online(wih it isn't very often) | 13:53 |
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| philiKON | morning J1m | 13:53 |
| J1m | Morning | 13:53 |
| d2m | Jonex: which docs ? | 13:53 |
| Jonex | http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/FrontPage/Zope3Book | 13:53 |
| philiKON | Jonex, there's a PDF | 13:54 |
| d2m | Jonex: thers a link to a .pdf file (on top of the doc) | 13:54 |
| Jonex | pdfs aren't very readable on screen. | 13:54 |
| philiKON | then print 'em | 13:54 |
| Jonex | But I'll download it, better than nothing. | 13:54 |
| philiKON | costs you about 2 euros for the couple of chapters | 13:55 |
| Jonex | I don't have access to a (cheap to use) good working printer atm, would need an usb coord. (I have to wonder, is every working place like this, or am I jus unlucky?) | 13:57 |
| MacSprint | writing z3 tests is bloody job | 13:57 |
| mgedmin | MacSprint, why? | 13:59 |
| Jonex | Do someone hnappen to have the pdf downloaded? | 13:59 |
| andres | Jonex, yes. | 13:59 |
| andres | Why? | 13:59 |
| MacSprint | mgedmin: just the sprinting expericnce | 13:59 |
| Jonex | Could you upload it somewhere temporaly so I could get it. | 14:00 |
| philiKON | MacSprint, stop writing javiotic tests. use doctests | 14:00 |
| srichter | philiKON: but then they have to all write them from scratch | 14:00 |
| srichter | that is not very sensable either | 14:00 |
| Jonex | doctest syntax is so ugly. :/ | 14:00 |
| philiKON | ah, modifying existing tests? | 14:00 |
| philiKON | Jonex, how so?> | 14:01 |
| mgedmin | Jonex, no it isn't! | 14:01 |
| J1m | Writing tests is hard. It's meta programming. | 14:01 |
| srichter | yep, I ask them to write new tests in a text file | 14:01 |
| philiKON | Jonex, it's the interpreter syntax... | 14:01 |
| srichter | which Tarek will check in in a bit | 14:01 |
| Jonex | >>>'s isn;t very nice imo. | 14:01 |
| MacSprint | doctest suck when you need a bunch of setup code | 14:01 |
| mgedmin | MacSprint, true | 14:01 |
| Jonex | andres: You could do that? | 14:01 |
| mgedmin | but you can pass setUp/tearDown functions to DocTestSuite | 14:02 |
| J1m | MacSprint, if the setup code isn't part of the story, then put it in the test file. | 14:02 |
| * MacSprint continues writing unittests | 14:02 | |
| srichter | well, the point is that you want to document your setup | 14:02 |
| andres | Jonex, yes, but will last a bit, my upstream is rather slow. | 14:02 |
| mgedmin | or reduce coupling in the code and make your tests more isolated | 14:02 |
| srichter | on the other hand you can always write your test setup in a python file | 14:02 |
| Jonex | andres: Well better than the current 0kbps from zope.org ;) | 14:02 |
| philiKON | i actually try to have a "lead-in" and "lead-out" of my doctest story explaining the setup... when reading tests, i want to see what sorts of things need to be set up | 14:03 |
| * J1m hates write-only tests -- which is why doctests are better, | 14:03 | |
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| mgedmin | I've abused doctests a bit in the past | 14:04 |
| mgedmin | when you write a single long (hundreds of lines) doctest for a view class | 14:05 |
| mgedmin | it becomes very hard to modify it later | 14:05 |
| J1m | How so? | 14:05 |
| mgedmin | now I'm back to testing individual methods with separate doctests | 14:05 |
| srichter | J1m: SchoolTool took testing to a new level :-) | 14:08 |
| J1m | How so? | 14:09 |
| andres | Jonex, http://anarazel.de/book.pdf | 14:09 |
| andres | Should be fast enough there. | 14:09 |
| srichter | in the sense of the amount of tests they have | 14:09 |
| srichter | what we really do in schooltool is to have two types of doctests | 14:09 |
| srichter | 1. The doctests that provide the documentation of the code by going through an example | 14:10 |
| J1m | I'd still like mgedmin to explain how it became hard to modify the long doctest later. | 14:10 |
| srichter | 2. have tests that cover all special and corner cases | 14:10 |
| mgedmin | srichter, I counted four types of doctests, actually ;) | 14:10 |
| mgedmin | 3. Very short usage examples directly in docstrings of some functions | 14:10 |
| J1m | srichter, yes, that is the recommended way. | 14:10 |
| mgedmin | 4. Functional tests | 14:10 |
| andres | Jonex, say it, when youre done. | 14:10 |
| mgedmin | J1m, the problem is actually not the length, but the style | 14:11 |
| mgedmin | I used to get carried away | 14:11 |
| mgedmin | create a view class in the doctest | 14:11 |
| mgedmin | render it a few times | 14:11 |
| mgedmin | with different form parameters in the request | 14:11 |
| mgedmin | and usually not bother calling individual view methods | 14:11 |
| J1m | ah | 14:11 |
| J1m | It's better to expose most of the view | 14:11 |
| mgedmin | and even when I did call individual methods | 14:12 |
| J1m | It's better to expose most of the view's functionality in python methods and test those. | 14:12 |
| mgedmin | I'd do that as if I were writing a continuous story | 14:12 |
| mgedmin | "now we do that, and this bit here changes" | 14:12 |
| mgedmin | etc. | 14:12 |
| mgedmin | then later, when you need to change the code | 14:12 |
| mgedmin | there's no obvious place where to put the new test | 14:12 |
| mgedmin | and if you change the accumulated state too much, subsequent doctest chunks may fail | 14:13 |
| mgedmin | I've encountered the second problem with long functional doctests too | 14:13 |
| mgedmin | when you need to test N different branches of the code | 14:13 |
| mgedmin | a single long test that accumulates state doesn't work well | 14:14 |
| Jonex | andres: it | 14:15 |
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| tekNico | Hi, I get a ComponentLookupError at a late point in Benji York's quickstart, is there a way to see what adapters are available? A global registry somewhere? | 14:21 |
| philiKON | yes | 14:21 |
| mgedmin | philiKON, how? | 14:21 |
| Jonex | Yay! 3.1 worked! | 14:21 |
| philiKON | getSiteManager().Adapters is the global registry isn't it | 14:21 |
| mgedmin | Jonex, yay! | 14:22 |
| mgedmin | philiKON, and what can you do with it? | 14:22 |
| mgedmin | I once tried to enumerate all adapter registrations | 14:23 |
| philiKON | zope.component.getAdapters(obj, interface) gets you all registered adapters for obj -> interface | 14:23 |
| mgedmin | (to make sure that unit tests clean up after themselves) | 14:23 |
| tekNico | Do I have to get to that in debug mode in the console, or is there a way to expose it via web? | 14:23 |
| mgedmin | and gave up after tearing half of my hair | 14:23 |
| srichter | philiKON: no | 14:23 |
| philiKON | no? | 14:23 |
| mgedmin | tekNico, try ++apidoc++ | 14:23 |
| philiKON | apidoc doesn't have adapters anymore, afaik | 14:23 |
| philiKON | unfortunately | 14:23 |
| mgedmin | that's a shame | 14:23 |
| srichter | philiKON: getSiteManager() gets you the site manager that is set; the default is the global one | 14:23 |
| philiKON | srichter, yes. the site manager wasn't really my point anyways | 14:24 |
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| srichter | that is all in the hooks.py module | 14:24 |
| philiKON | getAdapters() was my point | 14:24 |
| srichter | philiKON: how is ++apidoc++ not covering adapters anymore? | 14:24 |
| philiKON | can you see which adapters are registered in apidoc? | 14:25 |
| srichter | it is specific to interfaces | 14:25 |
| srichter | you can see all the adapters that involve a given interface | 14:25 |
| philiKON | ok | 14:25 |
| srichter | look at zope.interface.interfaces.Interface and you should see all of them | 14:25 |
| srichter | :-) | 14:25 |
| philiKON | right :) | 14:26 |
| srichter | (I wonder how long this would render) | 14:26 |
| philiKON | it's pretty fast | 14:26 |
| philiKON | just tried it | 14:26 |
| philiKON | srichter, can you also go to an object and see all the available adapters? | 14:28 |
| philiKON | hmm, i guess not | 14:30 |
| tekNico | Hmm... I still don't reckon how to fix this: | 14:37 |
| tekNico | ComponentLookupError: (<zope.app.pagetemplate.simpleviewclass.SimpleViewClass from /home/nl/src/Zope/Z3Instance/lib/python/hello/edit.pt object at 0xb793298c>, <InterfaceClass zope.formlib.namedtemplate.INamedTemplate>, 'default') | 14:37 |
| tekNico | Drats. | 14:38 |
| tekNico | ComponentLookupError: ([zope.app.pagetemplate.simpleviewclass.SimpleViewClass from /home/nl/src/Zope/Z3Instance/lib/python/hello/edit.pt object at 0xb793298c], [InterfaceClass zope.formlib.namedtemplate.INamedTemplate], 'default') | 14:38 |
| tekNico | philiKON: looks like the Introspector allows you to do that. | 14:40 |
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| mgedmin | interesting | 14:41 |
| mgedmin | tekNico, did you install zope.formlib on top of the Zope 3.1 release? | 14:41 |
| mgedmin | or are you using a subversion checkout? | 14:41 |
| tekNico | I'm using an SVN checkout. | 14:41 |
| mgedmin | hm... | 14:41 |
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| Jonex | There's lots of Do Repeat Yourself in zope. :/ | 14:49 |
| MacSprint | how to write singletons in z3? | 14:52 |
| mgedmin | Jonex, what have you encountered? | 14:53 |
| mgedmin | MacSprint, why would you need them? | 14:53 |
| MacSprint | why do you drive a car :) | 14:54 |
| mgedmin | to get from one place to another | 14:55 |
| mgedmin | but singletons don't let you get from one place to another | 14:55 |
| mgedmin | so you don't really need them | 14:55 |
| mgedmin | use a bicycle instead | 14:55 |
| MacSprint | but they save my life :=) | 14:55 |
| Jonex | mged, I write a class and a view in python, fo that I need a config file that repeats the name and position of the class and the name and position of the view. I also have to tell the view to coonnect to that class in the config file. And tell zope that I want it to use my module. There's a lot repeating of the class name/path. | 14:56 |
| mgedmin | true | 14:56 |
| mgedmin | you have to pay a lot for the flexibility | 14:57 |
| mgedmin | I wish you only had to pay for it when you actually needed it | 14:57 |
| Jonex | the bad thing is that I a have asuspection that I'll have to do it all in something more agile instead. And I won't know before I've spent ages doing @xml situps@ | 14:59 |
| Jonex | *"" | 14:59 |
| Jonex | I have to do permissions in /XML/? | 15:03 |
| mgedmin | yep | 15:03 |
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| Jonex | Why not in the python code? With decorators, name mangling or whaterver? | 15:04 |
| mgedmin | you could do that, I guess | 15:05 |
| mgedmin | there are reasons for doing it in xml | 15:06 |
| Jonex | Like? | 15:06 |
| Jonex | Any reasn that applies to me? | 15:06 |
| mgedmin | probably none | 15:06 |
| mgedmin | you can declare permissions for objects that come from 3rd party libraries without having to change them | 15:06 |
| mgedmin | you can override permissions in a different zcml file if you need to | 15:06 |
| Jonex | Why not let the user overide with XML but let the developer use Python for the defaults. | 15:08 |
| Jonex | Will I have to do much xml repeating(like what I mentioned) if I choose to use Zope3? | 15:09 |
| mgedmin | you will have to declare all views and adapters in zcml | 15:10 |
| mgedmin | you will have to declare permissions for all content objects in zcml | 15:10 |
| mgedmin | other than that, no | 15:10 |
| mgedmin | I do not find it a burden -- but I might just have gotten used to it | 15:11 |
| Jonex | Maybe it's just the quick start that is bad, but in that it's like a 2:1 xml to code ratio. | 15:11 |
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| * mgedmin counts | 15:14 | |
| mgedmin | 74431 lines of code versus 1315 lines of zcml | 15:14 |
| mgedmin | in one of my projects | 15:14 |
| mgedmin | err, I think those 74k-lines include a copy of pytz | 15:14 |
| bob2 | the examples are zcml heavy because you need some vaguely constant amount of zcml for each content object | 15:15 |
| bob2 | and the content objects in the examplea are trivial | 15:15 |
| bob2 | real code has a much less annoying ratio | 15:15 |
| srichter | yep | 15:16 |
| Jonex | What is the target group of zope3 | 15:16 |
| bob2 | tho, it annoys me that I need to use the web at all | 15:17 |
| srichter | Jonex: Pythopn Web developers | 15:17 |
| srichter | Jonex: Pythopn Web application developers | 15:17 |
| srichter | Jonex: Python Web application developers | 15:17 |
| Jonex | For any project? | 15:17 |
| bob2 | anything that approximates content management, imo | 15:18 |
| Jonex | At any size? It feels like it's mailnly made for large projects where it's important that thngs are portable. But you think it's appropriate for smaller apps too? | 15:19 |
| bob2 | depends how proficient you are at it | 15:22 |
| Jonex | How about not at all? | 15:22 |
| bob2 | I wouldn't think it was worth investing the time to learn it to do a 500 line thing | 15:22 |
| Jonex | Not? Oh, then I guess I should skip this. | 15:24 |
| bob2 | if you think you'll use it in the future, then that's of course different | 15:24 |
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| MacSprint | didums | 15:42 |
| MacSprint | the new publisher registry is working :) | 15:45 |
| regebro | PublisherRegistry? That sound interesting... | 15:47 |
| MacSprint | you can register publisher based on the request method(s) and mimetype(s) | 15:48 |
| regebro | Ah, so you can make your own publisher for audio/mpeg WebDAV access= | 15:50 |
| regebro | ? | 15:50 |
| MacSprint | possibly, yes | 15:50 |
| regebro | But that's the type of thing it's ment for? Or? | 15:51 |
| MacSprint | <publisher mimetype="audio/mpeg" methods="PUT" factory="....." priority="0" name="nuxeompeg" /> | 15:51 |
| MacSprint | basicially to hook in additional servers, e.g. JSON Servers, SOAP Servers | 15:52 |
| MacSprint | or whatever | 15:52 |
| MacSprint | without having to hack the sources | 15:52 |
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| tziade | well actually it just works on macintosh laptops | 15:52 |
| tziade | s/actually/at this time | 15:53 |
| regebro | Well, it's cool any way. :) | 15:53 |
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| MacSprint | and it runs on linux, so tarek's machine is to blame | 15:58 |
| tziade | mm.. must be ubuntu then ;) | 16:00 |
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| regebro | Ubuntu is for lusers. ;) Tha's why I use it. | 16:21 |
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| tziade | "Ugly is better than lobotomized" | 16:32 |
| regebro | Depends on what you use it for. ;) | 16:33 |
| mgedmin | "Simple is better than complex." | 16:33 |
| tziade | (that was a line found in a z3 page template :) | 16:38 |
| mgedmin | oh, I thought it was a slur on Ubuntu :-) | 16:40 |
| Theuni | "Complicated is better than utterlynonunderstandableandbreakingyourbrain" | 16:41 |
| MacSprint | Theuni: you have not seen our yesterdays implementation | 16:41 |
| MacSprint | not far away where my brain would explode | 16:41 |
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| Theuni | so, you better make it complicated instead of that | 16:43 |
| mgedmin | what are you folks working on in the sprint? | 16:47 |
| MacSprint | drinking and having fun :) | 16:48 |
| srichter | mgedmin: twisted integration, pluggable HTTP sub-protocols, generalized container views, viewlet/content provider refinements, static API doc, zope3.org application | 16:50 |
| tziade | srichter, you forgot MacSprint's topic | 16:50 |
| mgedmin | what's "zope3.org application"? | 16:50 |
| srichter | tziade: nope; pluggable HTTP sb-protocols :-) | 16:53 |
| srichter | mgedmin: Jim had some idea of starting zope3.org again using wikifiable HTML pages; they are working on this | 16:54 |
| srichter | tonico strasser also makes a nice UI design and implementation | 16:54 |
| yotaff | zope3.org ? yeah | 16:57 |
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| faassen | srichter: would be nice if the wiki used restructured text. :) | 17:01 |
| faassen | srichter: but I guess this is Jim's HTML wiki idea. | 17:01 |
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| faassen | srichter: you could use kupu. | 17:02 |
| faassen | srichter: as an optional frontend. | 17:02 |
| faassen | problem with HTML as the common storage medium is that it's harder to use higher level tools like RestructuredText, as HTML is not translatable to rest. | 17:02 |
| J1m | faassen, why is it a goal to be able to use ReST? | 17:03 |
| faassen | J1m: I'd like to be able to just ReST. :) | 17:03 |
| faassen | J1m: to edit pages. I prefer this to writing HTML. | 17:04 |
| faassen | J1m: I also prefer this to wysiwyg HTML editors like Kupu for longer texts. | 17:04 |
| J1m | I think that for most people, special text markup is an obstical. | 17:04 |
| faassen | HTML is special text markup. | 17:04 |
| J1m | But HTML editors hide this. | 17:04 |
| J1m | btw, check out: | 17:05 |
| J1m | http://htmlonly.demo.zwiki.org/ | 17:05 |
| J1m | :) | 17:05 |
| faassen | I hope the idea is not to use epoz for this. | 17:05 |
| J1m | I don't care what is used. | 17:05 |
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| J1m | At this point, neither epoz or kupu are available for z3 afaik | 17:06 |
| faassen | depends on what you mean by 'available for', I guess. :) | 17:07 |
| J1m | I'll note that I'd also like to see external editor support so that someone could launch their html editor of choice. | 17:07 |
| J1m | By available, I mean a Python package that makes it easy to use in Zope 3 without having to become a kupu expert. | 17:07 |
| faassen | anyway, dunno, never been a great fan of editing my texts with HTML editors. it all feels a bit shakey to me. | 17:07 |
| faassen | but it's an interesting idea. | 17:08 |
| J1m | Have you every used moin moin? | 17:08 |
| faassen | J1m: use in Zope 3 how? | 17:08 |
| faassen | yeah, i've used moin moin. | 17:08 |
| J1m | Have you ever used moin moin? | 17:08 |
| J1m | Personally, I can't stand moin moin's markup. | 17:08 |
| faassen | sure, me neither. I've used wikipedia though. | 17:08 |
| J1m | I'm sure the people who use moin moin feel the same way about stx. | 17:09 |
| faassen | well, I can't stand stx anymore either, I prefer rst. :) | 17:09 |
| J1m | and would feel the same way about rest. | 17:09 |
| J1m | I find this to be a significant obstical. | 17:09 |
| J1m | anyway | 17:09 |
| faassen | I understand your point of HTML as a happy medium. we'll see how happy it will be. :) | 17:09 |
| faassen | obstacle. :) | 17:09 |
| J1m | I would really like to be able to use kupu for any text field. | 17:10 |
| J1m | That would be ideal to me. | 17:10 |
| faassen | J1m: anyway, it's not a bad idea; I know you mentioned it around the sprint time. But I've used WYSIWYG in browser editors in anger and personally I'd prefer to use ReST in anger. :) | 17:10 |
| J1m | Roger and Dominic looked at integrating kupu last year. | 17:11 |
| faassen | J1m: I think Guido has some code for that. it would mean that the text fields would store HTML though, so that wouldn't be a text field. | 17:11 |
| faassen | J1m: I think the unioncms people also have kupu widgets working with Five. | 17:11 |
| MacSprint | KupuField | 17:11 |
| faassen | anyway, Plone has kupu working as fields. Perhaps I'll have a chat with GuidoW about this. :) | 17:12 |
| J1m | They spent 3 days working on it, reached a happy state of zen about kupu as some grand development platform and didn't accomplish anything. :) | 17:12 |
| faassen | though really a wiki would expect kupu more to work as a 'whole page' model. | 17:12 |
| faassen | as it does in Silva. | 17:12 |
| faassen | J1m: GuidoW doesn't tend to do this kind of stuff, he tends to get things done. :) | 17:12 |
| J1m | If we can have some kind of kupu widget, then it's straightforward to build a whole-page thing on that. | 17:13 |
| J1m | cool | 17:13 |
| faassen | anyway, kupu as a whole page model with tools at the side makes more sense to me in a wiki. | 17:13 |
| faassen | kupu widget != whole page thing, I think. | 17:13 |
| J1m | why do we need tools at the side? | 17:13 |
| J1m | tools for what? | 17:14 |
| faassen | well, there's a table inserting tool, for instance. but more particularly I'm thinking of link lookup tools, image lookup tools, etc. | 17:14 |
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| J1m | Look, I'd be ok with some special whole page thing. | 17:14 |
| faassen | i.e. things that need to contact the server while editing. | 17:14 |
| J1m | I also want the widget thing. | 17:14 |
| faassen | I'm just sketching out some options. :) | 17:14 |
| faassen | sure. | 17:14 |
| J1m | Right now I have nothing. | 17:14 |
| faassen | yeah, let's have a bit. :) | 17:14 |
| J1m | In plone, I have no problem inserting links and tables from buttons just above the editing area. | 17:16 |
| J1m | This is nice and lean. | 17:16 |
| * J1m recently wrote my first plone app recently. Using ArchGenXML. :) | 17:17 | |
| MacSprint | you designed it | 17:19 |
| J1m | Yup, using a UML editor. :) | 17:19 |
| J1m | I didn't have to create any custom code. | 17:19 |
| J1m | It's a reasonably cool app too. | 17:20 |
| MacSprint | as long as it does not eat your code in the next iteration it's a cool tool | 17:20 |
| J1m | Since I have no code, I'm safe. :) | 17:21 |
| MacSprint | cool trick | 17:22 |
| J1m | ArchGenXML is very cool. | 17:24 |
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| J1m | faassen, ayt? | 17:44 |
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| J1m | SteveA, ayt? | 18:23 |
| SteveA | hi jim | 18:24 |
| J1m | Did you write zope/app/decorator.py? | 18:25 |
| J1m | There is a test there that I find mysterious. | 18:26 |
| J1m | This has to do with a wart in the checker framework that I'm cleaning up. | 18:27 |
| SteveA | i feel like i probably wrote it, but the code doesn't look hugely familiar to me | 18:29 |
| J1m | :) | 18:29 |
| J1m | I think the tests are using NoPoxy in a missleading way. | 18:30 |
| J1m | I think this is due to some confusing aspects of the checker-lookup framework. | 18:30 |
| J1m | Basically, the words and the code don't agree. | 18:31 |
| J1m | I'll assume that this is die to the fact that the person who wrote the words missunderstoof the meaning of NoProxy. | 18:31 |
| SteveA | are these decorators even used now? | 18:31 |
| J1m | s/die/due | 18:31 |
| J1m | probably | 18:31 |
| J1m | yes, they are | 18:32 |
| J1m | They are used for various kinds of decorator proxies. :) | 18:33 |
| J1m | For example, location and contained proxies. | 18:33 |
| SteveA | okay | 18:35 |
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| mgedmin | in zope 3 functional tests | 18:38 |
| mgedmin | when I ask for absolute paths | 18:38 |
| mgedmin | where does the http://localhost/ part come from? | 18:38 |
| * mgedmin tried to override it by adding a Host: header in the http("...") request body, but it didn't work | 18:38 | |
| benji_york | using testbrowser? | 18:38 |
| mgedmin | no, using HTTPCaller directly | 18:38 |
| benji_york | in that case, I have no idea | 18:39 |
| benji_york | :) | 18:39 |
| mgedmin | testbrowser is built on top of HTTPCaller, isn't it? | 18:39 |
| SteveA | mgedmin: the functional test runner | 18:39 |
| SteveA | oh, perhaps not | 18:39 |
| SteveA | misread your question | 18:39 |
| * mgedmin hacks up a request wrapper that prepends '/++vh++http:localhost:theportnumberIwanttosee' to the actual path | 18:44 | |
| * mgedmin gets the wanted result in ftest output | 18:44 | |
| mp | hm.. configure number of treads in zope3? | 19:04 |
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| J1m | srichter, how do you configure the max number of threads? | 19:12 |
| J1m | mp, this chenged with the twised integration, I believe. | 19:13 |
| J1m | changed | 19:13 |
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| mp | zope/app/server/schema.xml - I guess this will suffice | 19:19 |
| Theuni | does anybody from you know this paper: http://systems.cs.uchicago.edu/wad/python.html ? | 19:46 |
| Theuni | s/from/of/ | 19:46 |
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| Theuni | looks rather old ... but has a very interesting use case | 19:50 |
| Theuni | i just got severely distorted by a faulty mysql module | 19:50 |
| J1m | Yeah, it's cool, but very platform specific. | 20:03 |
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| Theuni | Well | 22:41 |
| Theuni | I wouldn't mind having it on at least a couple of platforms (read: those that I use) | 22:41 |
| J1m | I seem to remember the papter was using solaris. | 22:42 |
| J1m | But I could be wrong. | 22:42 |
| J1m | (I heard this paper presented several years ago. :) | 22:42 |
| J1m | Or maybe I reviewed it. | 22:42 |
| Theuni | papter? | 22:43 |
| J1m | http://systems.cs.uchicago.edu/wad/python.html | 22:43 |
| J1m | was presented at a Python meeting. | 22:44 |
| Theuni | oh. just a typo. sorry, i thought you were referring to someone with that name. | 22:44 |
| Theuni | The paper actually has a demo implementation for linux x86 | 22:44 |
| J1m | ah | 22:44 |
| Theuni | and solaris | 22:44 |
| Theuni | My annoyance level about faulty c modules is just sky-high in this very moment. | 22:45 |
| J1m | We may have been using Dec machines at that time. :) | 22:45 |
| Theuni | hehe | 22:45 |
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| Theuni | hmm. doesn't compile out of the box anymore | 22:50 |
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| clueck | hm, when I start the debugger by >>>debugger = Debugger('var/Data.fs', 'etc/site.zcml') it complains: No module named myz3app But I have put a myz3app-configure.zcml into etc/package-includes/ and starting the instance with bin/runzope it is there | 23:16 |
| J1m | Use zopectl debug instead | 23:16 |
| J1m | I don't think the other instructions work with instances. | 23:17 |
| J1m | They predate instances. | 23:17 |
| clueck | bin/zopectl debug -- thanks | 23:19 |
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| clueck | ah, there is still an other way: | 23:29 |
| clueck | export PYTHONPATH=path_to_z3_build/lib/python:path_to_z3_instance/lib/python | 23:30 |
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| clueck | and then run it from the python2.4 prompt | 23:30 |
| J1m | yup, but zopectl is easier, and it works with other databases, etc. | 23:31 |
| clueck | ok, I see | 23:31 |
| clueck | thanks | 23:32 |
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