IRC log of #zope3-dev for Thursday, 2005-11-03

xerophytesrichter, is there any picture representation how the zope3 works and all componet fits together00:02
srichterno, I would not know how to do thta even00:03
srichteryou can look at http://localost:8080/++apidoc++ once Zope has started00:03
xerophyteis there anyway ouc an see all the +++xyz+++ using TWI00:08
srichterarhm, I don't think I have all the namespaces documented separateley00:10
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tiredbonessrichter, when I enter http://localhost:8080/++apidoc++, I get an error. I'm using zope 3.2.00:38
tiredbonesthe error is that I'm could be using a wrong url00:38
tiredbonesor I'm trying to access a page that is not defined.00:39
srichtertiredbones: did you bring up Zope 3?00:39
srichterI just started Zope 3, clicked on the link above and it worked without any troubles00:40
tiredboneswell, I'll try again.. give me a sec.00:40
tiredbonessrichter, I click on the address above and got the same error.00:42
srichtercan you show me the output of your Zoep startup?00:43
srichteroh, I know00:43
srichtergo in to your zope.conf file and make sure "devmode on" is set00:43
srichteror more correctly, "devmode off" is *not* set00:43
tiredbonessrichter, my build is a week old, could that be the problem?00:43
srichterI fixed this recently00:44
tiredbonessrichter, Ok I'll do a new build tomorrow. thanks00:45
srichtertiredbones: note that you can simply set the flag I told you about00:46
srichterdevmode on00:46
tiredbonessrichter, I don't remember that. Could you refresh my memory or point me to the docs?00:49
tiredbonesI'm going to try to update my copy of zope using svn. Is this the right command? "svn update svn:// zope3"00:54
srichteractually no00:56
srichtergo to the dir and just say "svn up"00:56
tiredbonesthat's easy.00:57
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tiredbonessrichter, It works now - ++apidoc++. Why is there security put on ++apidoc++?01:04
srichterwell, it just accesses stuff that are security proxied01:04
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projekt01srichter, thanks for the Boston merge and auto-props cleanup ;-)02:16
strichteryou are welcome02:17
projekt01srichter, I guess the password manager implementation in InternalPrinicpal is not BBB02:17
strichterit should02:17
strichterotherweise it is a bug02:18
projekt01There is no class variable set, and older instances doesn't have _passwordManagerName02:18
projekt01We should add a default _passwordManagerName class variable, but I'm not sure if it's "Plain Text" or None?02:19
projekt01And there is a missing i18n_domain="zope" in (I guess the title in the interface directive will need it)02:21
strichterPlain Text02:21
strichterfeel free to add it02:22
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projekt01Ok, will do it.02:22
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projekt01srichter, I get a error if I run the tests like: Tear down ... not supported02:38
projekt01srichter, do you know what this means?02:38
strichterthis is not an error02:39
strichterit means that the Functional testing layer cannot be torn down02:39
projekt01Is this a problem?02:40
strichterit is totally normal02:41
projekt01Why is this important to show?02:41
strichterit is just an info02:41
projekt01It's confusing02:41
strichterbecause it is a generic mechanism02:41
strichterand you should know if a layer has no taear down defined02:41
J1mI'm open to a better way to display this.02:41
strichtersupport is coming :-)02:41
J1mMaybe some extra text saying that that this is not a failure but just a limitation in the layer. :)02:42
strichterJ1m: I wonder whether we should just switch to using the ZODB and zope.testing trunk for the Zope 3 trunk02:42
strichterit would automatically update the changes02:42
J1mThat would be a bad idea.02:43
strichterand we can switch to particular revisions, if someone does some major work02:43
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J1mRemember all of the sprints that were screwed up because Jeremy checked in zodb changes that broke us?02:43
srichterno, but I take your word for it :-)02:43
projekt01Ok, I see, perhaps I should take a look to the new test runner first.02:44
srichterin those cases/sprints we could switch to revisions before02:44
srichterbut I think it would really lower the bar of contributing02:44
srichterI can tell from my SchoolTool work02:44
srichterI always use SchoolTool with the latest trunk (write checkout)02:44
srichterwhen I find a bug in Zope 3 I just fix it, write a test, make sure it works in ST and commit the change02:45
SteveAfor launchpad, we use Patch Queue Manager, which runs all the tests before accepting a commit.02:45
srichterthat has worked very well for me in the past three months and actually allowed me to contribute while working on something else02:45
SteveAand rejects a commit that doesn't pass02:46
SteveAthe tree being checked into, plus all trees that depend on it, are tested.02:46
J1mSteveA, but it doesn't run tests of things you haven't heard about that is reusing launchpad code02:47
srichterand I think this makes commits a really lengthy process02:47
srichter(just imagine we would run all the Zope 3 and ZODB and twisted tests all the time)02:47
J1msrichter, we don't need to because we aren't using their trnks.02:48
srichterbut then I was just advocating this ;-)02:48
srichteranyways, I would at least like to have the choice02:49
srichterin ST we use a buildout-like process, no externals02:49
SteveAwell... it does make commits take a very long time02:49
SteveAbut, we cross-merge a lot02:49
SteveAum... decentralized RCS is nice for that02:50
srichteryeah, we cross-merge very little02:50
J1mcross merge?02:50
SteveAJ1m: well, right now, launchpad is proprietory, so we do run tests for things that depend on launchpad02:50
SteveAbzr has a much more advanced merging system than svn.  i never realized what a difference it made until i tried it in practice.02:51
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SteveAwhenever you merge, and especially if you resolve conflicts, that meta-information about the choices you made are preserved and added to the sum of information about what lines of code to keep.02:52
* J1m needs to check out bzr02:52
SteveAwe've almost completed a move to bzr from baz 1.x for launchpad02:53
SteveAstill some rough edges, such as using rsync to push and pull changes from the server, rather than having sftp support natively included02:53
srichterSteveA: are you guys also developing bzr? (the relationship is still unclear to me)02:53
SteveAand the code needs some more work to make it properly async, which is important for improved speed across networks02:54
SteveAcanonical is funding bzr development, and bzr is an important part of canonical's strategy.  important parts of the process of developing ubuntu are using bzr and tools built on top of it.02:54
srichterok, I see02:55
srichteralrught, I gotta go02:55
SteveAbzr has two full time developers and various people who develop it as a part of their jobs, plus community contributions.02:55
srichterI'll have a look at it too02:56
srichterthanks for the discussion02:56
srichtersee ya guys tomorrow02:56
SteveAdespite it being off topic ;-)02:56
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newpersbob2, ayt?05:01
bob2newpers: heya05:02
newpershow's it going05:08
newperssorry.. i always do that.  i ask if you're here and then i leave.05:08
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j-wstub, faassen told me he talked to you last week about pytz11:34
j-whis story confused me a bit11:34
j-wso I hope you have a moment?11:34
j-wI think I'm doing something wrong, but I can't see where11:35
j-wfor some reason the offset from UTC to Europe/Amsterdam is not what I expected it to be11:35
j-wI have a naive dt and then I add the pytz.timezone('UTC') info to it11:35
j-wthe I do dt.astimezone(pytz.timezone('Europe/Amsterdam')) and I get something 0 hours in the past11:36
j-winstead of about one hour in future11:36
j-w(I hope I make sense...)11:37
j-wsorry, typo, I meant *20* hours in the past, where I expected *1* hour in the future11:37
stub>>> from pytz import timezone11:40
stub>>> from datetime import datetime, timedelta11:40
stub>>> now =
stub>>> now = now.replace(tzinfo=utc)11:40
stub>>> import pytz11:40
stub>>> now = now.replace(tzinfo=pytz.utc)11:40
stub>>> str(now)11:40
stub'2005-11-03 04:38:45.080640+00:00'11:40
stub>>> now.astimezone(pytz.timezone('Europe/Amsterdam'))11:40
stubdatetime.datetime(2005, 11, 3, 5, 38, 45, 80640, tzinfo=<DstTzInfo 'Europe/Amsterdam' CET+1:00:00 STD>)11:40
stubthat similar to what you are doing?11:40
j-wd = datetime.datetime()11:41
j-wsorry, again...11:41
j-wd = datetime.datetime(2005, 11, 03)11:41
j-wdatetime.datetime(2005, 11, 3, 0, 0, tzinfo=<UTC>)11:42
j-wdatetime.datetime(2005, 11, 3, 0, 0, tzinfo=<DstTzInfo 'Europe/Amsterdam' AMT+0:20:00 STD>)11:43
stub>>> now = datetime(2005,11,3,4,38,45,tzinfo=pytz.utc)11:43
stub>>> now.astimezone(pytz.timezone('Europe/Amsterdam'))11:43
stubdatetime.datetime(2005, 11, 3, 5, 38, 45, tzinfo=<DstTzInfo 'Europe/Amsterdam' CET+1:00:00 STD>)11:43
j-wyup, that works for me as well11:43
j-wso, the pytz.timezone('UTC') I did was wrong?11:44
j-wI should use pytz.utc instead11:44
stubpytz.utc == pytz.timezone('UTC')11:44
stubOr it would be a bug11:44
j-wwell, apparently its not the same - for me11:44
j-w>>> pytz.utc == pytz.timezone('UTC')11:45
stub>>> now = datetime(2005,11,3,4,38,45,tzinfo=pytz.timezone('UTC'))11:46
stub>>> now.astimezone(pytz.timezone('Europe/Amsterdam'))11:46
stubdatetime.datetime(2005, 11, 3, 5, 38, 45, tzinfo=<DstTzInfo 'Europe/Amsterdam' CET+1:00:00 STD>)11:46
j-w>>> pytz.utc.utcoffset(d)11:46
j-w>>> pytz.timezone('UTC').utcoffset(d)11:46
j-wok, well, still not sure what I did woring, but it was certainly me then somewhere - thanks for the help11:46
* j-w starts digging further...11:46
stubGah... I think my first example is wrong in the docs11:47
stubNo... that should be fine11:48
* stub isn't thinking too straight - awake at 4am due to jet lag ;)11:48
j-wwell, I must have been on crack or something. This just works as expected:11:50
j-w>>> import pytz11:50
j-w>>> from datetime import datetime11:50
j-w>>> now = datetime(2005,11,3,4,38,45,tzinfo=pytz.timezone('UTC'))11:50
j-w>>> now.astimezone(pytz.timezone('Europe/Amsterdam'))11:50
j-wdatetime.datetime(2005, 11, 3, 5, 38, 45, tzinfo=<DstTzInfo 'Europe/Amsterdam' CET+1:00:00 STD>)11:50
j-w>>> foo = datetime(2005,11,3)11:50
j-w>>> foo.replace(tzinfo=pytz.timezone('UTC'))11:50
j-wdatetime.datetime(2005, 11, 3, 0, 0, tzinfo=<UTC>)11:50
j-w>>> foo.replace(tzinfo=pytz.timezone('UTC')).astimezone(pytz.timezone('Europe/Amsterdam'))11:50
j-wdatetime.datetime(2005, 11, 3, 1, 0, tzinfo=<DstTzInfo 'Europe/Amsterdam' CET+1:00:00 STD>)11:50
j-wso, I dunno, I did something very stupid somewhere...11:50
j-wanyway, thx again11:50
stubIf you see the CET, you are doing things correctly. If you see a weird timezone abbreviation, you have 'constructing localtime' issues which are dealt with in the README.txt in the pytz source.11:51
stubno probs.11:53
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j-wstub: I think I found my error:12:02
j-w>>> import pytz12:02
j-w>>> from datetime import datetime12:02
j-w>>> d = datetime(2005,11,3)12:02
j-w>>> d.replace(tzinfo=pytz.timezone('UTC'))12:02
j-wdatetime.datetime(2005, 11, 3, 0, 0, tzinfo=<UTC>)12:02
j-w>>> d.replace(tzinfo=pytz.timezone('UTC')).replace(tzinfo=pytz.timezone('Europe/Amsterdam'))12:02
j-wdatetime.datetime(2005, 11, 3, 0, 0, tzinfo=<DstTzInfo 'Europe/Amsterdam' AMT+0:20:00 STD>)12:02
j-wso, the replace does something I didn't expect apparently12:02
stubYup. Replace just swaps out the tzinfo. And because there are no hooks to be called you end up with the timezone in Amsterdamn used in around 1900, which was UTC + 20 minutes (noon was when the sun was dorectly overhead)12:05
j-wwell, duh!12:05
stubso if you need to do that, you need to read the section in the README on creating localtimes12:05
j-wwell, it turns out I don't *need* it, I just did it the wrong way ;)12:06
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stubYup. Makeing pytz handle localtimes 'correctly' screwed up the API somewhat. That might not have been a good direction to take.12:07
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j-wstub, I hope I can bother you again... I thought I it was clear, but now I have this:13:32
j-w>>> import pytz13:32
j-w>>> from datetime import datetime13:32
j-w>>> d = datetime(2005, 11, 3)13:32
j-w>>> ams = pytz.timezone('Europe/Amsterdam')13:32
j-w>>> d13:32
j-wdatetime.datetime(2005, 11, 3, 0, 0)13:32
j-w>>> ams_d13:32
j-wdatetime.datetime(2005, 11, 3, 0, 0, tzinfo=<DstTzInfo 'Europe/Amsterdam' CET+1:00:00 STD>)13:32
j-w>>> ams_d.astimezone(pytz.utc)13:32
j-wdatetime.datetime(2005, 11, 2, 23, 0, tzinfo=<UTC>)13:33
j-wsome more context: the naive dt comes from user input (a form)13:33
j-wand I'd like to convert this input, according to the timezone setting of my app, to UTC (for storage)13:33
stubYou neglected the line that creates ams_d13:34
j-wams_d = ams.localize(d)13:35
stubI think that should work, but doesn't. To convert to UTC, ams_d.replace(tzinfo=pytz.utc) works. I will need to look into why your syntax doesn't13:40
stubWhen my brain is functioning better ;)13:40
j-wBTW, we use pytz as shipped with Zope-3.1 (does that help?)13:41
stubThat is current13:45
j-wwell, but just doing ams_d.replace(tzinfo=pytz.utc) wouldn't be correct, right13:46
j-wI mean, I wuold not have the UTC representation of the dt in amsterdam13:46
zagymoin j-w :)13:50
j-whi zagy13:50
j-wso, my approach to convert a naive dt (from user input), via the applications timezone setting to UTC is not correct?13:53
j-wso, what would be the approach then?13:53
j-wstub: wait, wait wait, now again *I* made the mistake13:56
* j-w slaps his forehead - I think I have it working now. thx13:56
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J1msrichter, why did you change the zope.testing external to a tag?18:14
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srichterJ1m: I did not18:29
srichterJ1m: I just upped the revision number18:29
J1mI wonder who did that.18:34
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J1muh, never mind.18:41
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