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| JoaoJoao | good evening | 00:50 |
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| fdrake | I've spent the week at the "packaging sprint" the Plone folks are holding at the CIGNEX offices, looking at what's needed to support Zope code that's importable from ZIP archives. | 01:35 |
| fdrake | I've written up some notes about what I've done so far, and what still needs to be considered: | 01:35 |
| fdrake | http://plone.org/events/sprints/sj2/ZIPImportSupportForZope3 | 01:35 |
| fdrake | I plan on turning this into a Zope 3 proposal, but there are still things to be considered. I'm pretty fried, but if anyone's interested in the branch, that should provide something to start with. | 01:36 |
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| JoaoJoao | What is the Zope3-ish way to catalog objects? | 04:39 |
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| Volpe | I'm having trouble with the pythonpath when using zope3 | 10:29 |
| Volpe | when I try to run the example (messageboard) from the book. the like from messageboard.interfaces import IMessage throws an import error 'No module names interfaces' but there cleary is an interfaces module and just plain "from interfaces import IMessage" works fine. :\ | 10:32 |
| Volpe | any reason for this? | 10:37 |
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| Volpe | if I open a python interactive session from lib/python (i.e. so lib/python is on the python path) I can write 'from messageboard.interfaces import IMessageboard' but when I run the tests on the messageboard package it gives the ImportError (even though it lists lib/python in sys.path). What could explain this? | 11:03 |
| d2m | Volpe: i think you export the PYTHONPATH and run the tests from the zope instance folder, like: python bin/test --dir=modulepath | 11:14 |
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| Volpe | yeah, I'm doing that (I think). | 11:19 |
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| srichter | J1m: could you add a motivational paragraph for extrinsic references? | 18:20 |
| J1m | are you kidding? | 18:21 |
| srichter | no, I understand intrinisc references just fine, but then you dive into how you solve extrinsic references without giving an explanation what they are good for | 18:21 |
| J1m | I just checked in a motivational paragraph a few minutes ago. | 18:22 |
| J1m | I even used those words in the checkin message. | 18:22 |
| srichter | I know, and it only talks about intrinsic references | 18:22 |
| srichter | but it does not explain extrinsic reference examples | 18:22 |
| srichter | for example, you say the wheels on a car are intrinsic | 18:22 |
| srichter | so what is an example of an extrinsic reference? | 18:23 |
| J1m | ah ok | 18:24 |
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| J1m | How's that? | 18:32 |
| srichter | reading... | 18:32 |
| * J1m is not feeling very literary this moring. :) | 18:33 | |
| * J1m is not feeling very literary this morning. :) | 18:33 | |
| srichter | he he | 18:33 |
| J1m | we plan to release shortcuts too, fwiw | 18:33 |
| J1m | and a bunch of other stuff. | 18:33 |
| J1m | so much to do, so little time ... | 18:34 |
| srichter | ok, much better | 18:34 |
| srichter | I understand it now :-) | 18:35 |
| srichter | J1m: so every ExtrinsicReferences instance would be one type of reference | 18:39 |
| srichter | right? | 18:39 |
| J1m | yes | 18:40 |
| srichter | (like the verb in RDF language | 18:40 |
| J1m | yup | 18:40 |
| srichter | ok, I like it | 18:40 |
| J1m | An interesting implementation note: this doen;t use intids. :) | 18:40 |
| J1m | doesn't | 18:40 |
| srichter | though Helmut would say now: another reference/relationship framework! :-) | 18:40 |
| srichter | J1m: is it using weakrefs? | 18:41 |
| J1m | keyrefs | 18:41 |
| srichter | Ok, I see | 18:41 |
| J1m | U put this out there in part in response to Helmut's plans to write a proposal. | 18:41 |
| srichter | oh, now I understand | 18:41 |
| J1m | s/U/I | 18:41 |
| srichter | thus you need the IKeyReference adapter | 18:41 |
| J1m | yes | 18:41 |
| srichter | I like it | 18:42 |
| J1m | A relationship thing could be build on this. | 18:42 |
| srichter | it is very Pythonic and Zope 3 ish | 18:42 |
| srichter | right | 18:42 |
| J1m | In particular, it is very small. | 18:42 |
| srichter | right | 18:42 |
| srichter | and since it is using btrees it is efficient I assume | 18:43 |
| J1m | That's the plan. :) | 18:43 |
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| srichter | ok, so +1 from me | 18:43 |
| J1m | I'll be interested to see if the people who want relationship systems find it useful. | 18:44 |
| srichter | I guess we should try to convert the st.relationship code to using it | 18:45 |
| srichter | this way we could figure out if it meets our needs | 18:45 |
| J1m | I dunno | 18:45 |
| J1m | at least as a thought experiment. | 18:45 |
| srichter | yep | 18:45 |
| J1m | I'm not proposing this as some kind of standard that people have to follow. | 18:45 |
| srichter | well, one of the big criticisms of the ST relationship package is that it has a linear search | 18:46 |
| efge | yeah :) | 18:46 |
| srichter | so this would solve this problem I guess | 18:46 |
| J1m | eek | 18:46 |
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| srichter | natea: so how did the meeting go? | 19:05 |
| natea | srichter, pretty well | 19:06 |
| natea | turbogears, django and aquarium were presented | 19:06 |
| natea | and i gave an impromptu talk about plone/zope/zope3 | 19:06 |
| srichter | :-) | 19:07 |
| natea | there were a lot of people interested in zope after i described where it's been and where it's going | 19:07 |
| srichter | huh, interesting | 19:08 |
| srichter | is there anything planned for next time? | 19:08 |
| natea | but i think a talk from you would be best | 19:08 |
| natea | no, i don't think so | 19:08 |
| natea | you should contact chris curvey to schedule a talk | 19:08 |
| srichter | I wonder whether I should do another talk at Tufts | 19:08 |
| srichter | this is much less overhead for me | 19:09 |
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| helmutm | hi jim, hi stephan - sorry, I was off my computer so i missed your discussion :-( | 19:30 |
| srichter | helmutm: no problem | 19:31 |
| srichter | helmutm: I was just given Jim some feedback about the extrinsic property code | 19:31 |
| helmutm | yes, i've read it, and also looked at the code | 19:32 |
| helmutm | so it might provide a great part of what i was working on | 19:32 |
| helmutm | but i'd like to think a little more about it... | 19:32 |
| srichter | yeah, comments would be very welcome | 19:38 |
| srichter | I think we can profit from some experience of the Zope 2/Plone world | 19:38 |
| helmutm | one thing is just the plug-and-play aspect: in Plone you have the archetypes reference framework and you just use it... | 19:43 |
| helmutm | that may mean that you have to tune it later or even change implementation | 19:44 |
| helmutm | but you get a quick start | 19:44 |
| srichter | right | 19:44 |
| srichter | one goal of mine for 3.2 is to have a Zope 3 TTW development package | 19:45 |
| srichter | first step: make sure that J1m takes the time to sit down with me and fix the persistent interface bug. :-) | 19:45 |
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| srichter | I will probably base a lot of the work on the new Boston skin | 19:46 |
| srichter | I want a click-and-done dev interface :-0 | 19:46 |
| helmutm | to be honest: i'd be happy to be able to do all the stuff i'd like to do just by writing python code... | 19:49 |
| philiKON | srichter, you mean a goal for 3.3, right? | 19:52 |
| srichter | yes, of course | 19:52 |
| philiKON | ok :) | 19:52 |
| srichter | helmutm: J1m is working on archetypesxml for Zope 3, which would do that | 19:52 |
| * philiKON is going to bed: g'night | 19:53 | |
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| srichter | I just want to be able to quickly write Web pages without any design | 19:53 |
| srichter | liek my personal one :-) | 19:53 |
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| d2m | srichter: you answered my question regarding POST handling today -- i am really trying to figure out how (and if at all) a POST to the object is processed -- there seems to be no way to update an object except you add another view (if you do not want to use @@edit.html and all its troubles, different field names, different form-enctype,..) | 20:04 |
| d2m | if this is by design i did not find documentation on the topic | 20:05 |
| srichter | well, I think PUT is defined in general | 20:05 |
| srichter | it uses the IWriteFile adapter of an object | 20:06 |
| d2m | PUT works ok for creating objects | 20:06 |
| srichter | (actually I am sure I jsut worked with that this week) | 20:06 |
| srichter | it should also work for updating | 20:06 |
| d2m | but you get into troubles when using objectids without extensions | 20:06 |
| srichter | no | 20:06 |
| srichter | it just looks for an unnamed adapter then | 20:06 |
| srichter | we use that all the time in SchoolTool | 20:07 |
| d2m | which defaults to a File | 20:07 |
| srichter | probably | 20:07 |
| d2m | ok, so it is on purpose that POSTs are not processed ? | 20:07 |
| srichter | yes | 20:07 |
| srichter | there is simply no view defined for it | 20:08 |
| d2m | but you are forced to use the @@edit.html view then | 20:08 |
| srichter | yes | 20:10 |
| J1m | what are y'all talking about. | 20:10 |
| J1m | ? | 20:10 |
| srichter | about not having a default POST view | 20:10 |
| srichter | like we have a default PUT view | 20:11 |
| J1m | That is different from the GET view? | 20:11 |
| srichter | yeah | 20:11 |
| J1m | Hm | 20:11 |
| d2m | yes, the problem when you want to switch to another form component | 20:11 |
| srichter | (in SchoolTool's REAT API GET is often different from POST) | 20:11 |
| J1m | hm | 20:11 |
| J1m | Seems like an odd use of post. | 20:13 |
| d2m | with zope2 you are used to just post to the object itself and get the data processed | 20:13 |
| srichter | maybe GET and POST is the same; I might have lied here | 20:14 |
| d2m | should be the same with zope3 i think | 20:14 |
| J1m | It is | 20:14 |
| J1m | They are treated pretty much equivalently. | 20:14 |
| d2m | if you post to the object in Zope3 (and not to the @@edit.html view as it is now) the data is not processed, the object is not changed, its like a GET request | 20:15 |
| srichter | well, because you post on the default view, which is @@index.html | 20:15 |
| J1m | d2m, that's up to the thing you post to. | 20:16 |
| d2m | well, ok, let that view handle post requests then | 20:16 |
| J1m | Zope 3 has nothing to do with it. | 20:16 |
| J1m | Views handle all requests. | 20:16 |
| J1m | zope 3 doesn't make a distinction between GET and POST when deciding which view to call. | 20:17 |
| d2m | please put that in big red letters on top of the ZMI | 20:18 |
| J1m | Huh? | 20:18 |
| srichter | what? | 20:18 |
| d2m | well, the view should process the request | 20:18 |
| * J1m is confused | 20:19 | |
| d2m | ok, could well be i am mixing up some things | 20:21 |
| srichter | d2m: how do you what request was sent? | 20:21 |
| d2m | srichter: i do not understand | 20:23 |
| srichter | how will the /path/to/object view know whether the request came from edit.html, someotheredit.html or whatever? | 20:25 |
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| d2m | srichter, you are right, its completly my missunderstanging | 20:27 |
| d2m | i simply got confused by fact, that PUT and DELETE works well on the container | 20:28 |
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| agroszer | srichter: I just checked schooltool.relations inspired by the above discussion | 20:42 |
| agroszer | in fact, that's cool | 20:42 |
| srichter | thank the POV guys | 20:43 |
| agroszer | just one small thing that I miss, is to integrate it somehow with the schema/form framework | 20:43 |
| agroszer | what do you think it would be hard to implement? | 20:47 |
| srichter | not using a vocabulary I think | 20:51 |
| srichter | I am pretty sure this is commonly done in schooltool | 20:51 |
| agroszer | I think relations are used quite often in applications, so let's dream a bit: | 20:54 |
| agroszer | I could specify in the schema that the field is a relation | 20:54 |
| srichter | note that you can do a lot of what you about to dream with a List/Choice field combination and using vocabularies | 20:56 |
| agroszer | yes, what I don't tried yet is how it behaves with stool.relations | 20:56 |
| agroszer | as I see in stool it takes some lines to describe&handle the relations | 20:59 |
| agroszer | but, relations could be described by let's say "parent" object, the "child", both interface are in the system, | 21:01 |
| agroszer | I jusst have to specify where do I store the children | 21:01 |
| agroszer | -s | 21:01 |
| agroszer | but that's simple thinking | 21:01 |
| agroszer | (even coming from the relational world) | 21:02 |
| agroszer | Not thinking about the consequences, even the forms may be created using the above infos | 21:03 |
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| agroszer | eek, another thread | 21:16 |
| agroszer | could somebody run the zope/app/form/tests/test_utility.py? | 21:16 |
| agroszer | please | 21:16 |
| srichter | [srichter@einstein Zope3-Tutorial]$ python test.py -vpu1 -s zope.app.form test_utility | 21:18 |
| srichter | Running tests at level 1 | 21:18 |
| srichter | Running unit tests: | 21:18 |
| srichter | Running: | 21:18 |
| srichter | Ran 458 tests with 0 failures and 0 errors in 6.520 seconds. | 21:18 |
| srichter | [srichter@einstein Zope3-Tutorial]$ | 21:18 |
| agroszer | *scrathing head | 21:19 |
| agroszer | +c | 21:19 |
| agroszer | on line 544 it expects | 21:19 |
| agroszer | "field: <class 'zope.app.form.tests.test_utility.Foo'>" | 21:19 |
| agroszer | but I get "field: <class '__main__.Foo'>" | 21:20 |
| srichter | that's probably a doctest thing | 21:20 |
| agroszer | yes it is | 21:20 |
| agroszer | I started the test_utility.py "by hand" | 21:20 |
| srichter | well, I never do that | 21:22 |
| srichter | it should work | 21:22 |
| agroszer | Let's say I'm a beginner | 21:23 |
| srichter | but if it does not I am not going to try to figure out why | 21:23 |
| agroszer | and beginners sometimes do unexpected things :-) | 21:23 |
| agroszer | I think it's because when the "main" test.py runs the tests, it imports each one, and that's why different module names come | 21:26 |
| agroszer | in the doctest, how can I write (.*) ? | 21:26 |
| srichter | that's probably right | 21:26 |
| agroszer | or (ignore this) | 21:26 |
| srichter | I dunno | 21:26 |
| agroszer | I mean how to expect "field: <class '(ignore this).Foo'>" | 21:27 |
| srichter | ... | 21:30 |
| srichter | <class '...Foo'> | 21:30 |
| srichter | of course you need to have the ELLIPSIS flag turned on | 21:30 |
| agroszer | I see, I remembered, that I saw it somewhere :-) | 21:30 |
| agroszer | have you checked the diff's of the CustomSequenceWidgetFactory solution? | 21:35 |
| srichter | no, you should really send it to zope3-dev. sp more people have an opportunity to review it | 21:40 |
| agroszer | ok, I'll do that | 21:41 |
| agroszer | just one question | 21:41 |
| agroszer | is it OK to create an ICustomWidgetFactory interface, instead of IViewFactory? | 21:42 |
| agroszer | signature is the same | 21:42 |
| srichter | for what? | 21:43 |
| agroszer | yes... first I thought it would be different, now it is the same | 21:45 |
| agroszer | and as checked IViewFactory is going to be deprecated | 21:46 |
| srichter | right | 21:47 |
| agroszer | that's it I can't decide | 21:48 |
| agroszer | you're the expert :-) | 21:48 |
| srichter | I see | 22:09 |
| srichter | I check it out | 22:09 |
| agroszer | Inbetween I now, why it should be ICustomWidgetFactory | 22:09 |
| agroszer | there should be an ICustomSequenceWidgetFactory too, because it's __call__ will have different signature | 22:10 |
| agroszer | I just noticed, that sequence widgets have again different __init__ signatures | 22:12 |
| agroszer | yay, object widget too | 22:14 |
| agroszer | that means my current fix is more like a hack | 22:16 |
| agroszer | ok, I'll post the situation to zope3-dev, let's have opinions | 22:19 |
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| agroszer | good night | 22:45 |
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