IRC log of #zope3-dev for Wednesday, 2005-11-16

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JoaoJoaohi again03:06
JoaoJoaoSeems to be easy: I added a new field to one of my interfaces, but it's not showing up in the add/edit forms (though they show in the API docs)03:07
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srichterJoaoJoao: do you have a "fields" attribute in the addform directive?04:06
JoaoJoaoAhhhhhh I knew I was missing something :) thanks04:18
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newperssorry if this question gets asked a lot.  does zope3 support ajax communication.  all i would need is a form button and input text to set and get info from the zodb.07:35
newperssorry for the lack of question marks as well.  :P07:35
newpersobviously w/o refreshing07:36
newpersthere's more to it, but that's the dumbed down version07:40
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romanofskiI'm currently struggling by trying to customize a container view - the ZCML 'containerViews' directive doesn't provide something like a template attribute and if I use a <page /> directive 'Contents' shows up additionally to my customize 'Contents' page...14:40
srichteryou have to do that manually14:40
srichtercontainerViews is merely a shortcut to get soemthing going quickly14:41
romanofskiah okey14:41
romanofskiI first thought, that I *have to* provide a "containerViews" directive14:42
romanofskiit works, if I define a 'page' with a 'contents.html' name and a 'Contents' title, but not if I use a different title, 'Contents' shows up again - this confuses me and I'm not sure what I'm missing here14:46
romanofskiadditionally, I removed my 'contentsView' ...14:46
srichtermmh, strange14:47
srichterah, I know14:47
srichterdid you inherit your container from Folder?14:47
* romanofski checks14:47
srichter(if so, don't do that; use BTreeContainer as base class)14:47
srichterbecause the containerViews are defined for IFolder14:47
romanofskiaaaaha... good to know that :)14:48
romanofskithat helps a lot - thank you srichter :)14:48
* romanofski needs to write that down to avoid similar mistakes in the future14:49
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JoaoJoaogood afternoon16:57
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JoaoJoaowill Z3.2 include a widget for the Datetime field?17:06
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benjiJoaoJoao, it has *a* widget, but not a particularly fancy one17:15
JoaoJoaobenji: Sorry, I meant a proper widget17:16
benjiit's too late to get anything else into 3.2, but I have a nice datetime widget we could put into 3.317:16
JoaoJoaobenji: Is it possible to have the widget in a separate package so I could use it in my apps?17:18
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JoaoJoaobenji: I'm trying to build a tutorial split in lessons (creating a package, creating a custom type, using events)17:20
benjiJoaoJoao, the current code needs quite a bit of work; I doubt it'd help you much :/17:24
JoaoJoaobenji: I was a little disappointed when I realized there wasn't a datetime widget for Z317:27
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JoaoJoaobenji: I like the Z3 architecture a lot, however sometimes it is made hard by the lack of available recipes17:35
benjiJoaoJoao, yep, such is life :)17:36
JoaoJoaobenji: e.g. I'm still asking myself how the !@!(# can I do cataloging in Z317:38
JoaoJoaoI have even tried RoR a little bit, but... I'm not convinced it's so good after all17:40
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j1msrichter, ayt?18:12
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srichterj1m: yeah18:33
srichterso what's up?18:34
j1mWe're pulling our hair out trying to figure out how to sort lists of strings correctly. :)18:34
j1mSpecifically, correctly for a locale.18:34
JoaoJoaoL.sort :P just kidding18:34
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srichterj1m: aehm, huh? :-)18:35
j1mThis seems to be a fairly significant hole in out i18n story.18:35
j1mLocale-specific ordering often doesn't agree with unicode ordering.18:35
j1mfor example, sorting unicode gets Danish wrong.18:36
j1mThe Python locale module has an API for this, but it's not thread safe.18:37
j1mAnd has other issues.18:37
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j1mSteveA, do y'all care about this?18:37
j1msrichter, I was curious why you decide to reimplement rather than wrap part of ICU?18:38
* j1m wonders what srichter is thinking...18:40
SteveAj1m: not particularly.  my strings are either unicode and mixed language (mostly english), or sorted by other means (objects have a strict ascii name as well as a unicode title)18:41
SteveAi don't have strings from a single locale that need to be sorted according to that locale18:41
j1mSteveA, so you never present lists of sorted choices to non-english speakers?18:41
SteveAi don't think rosetta has any use-cases for that either, as that all goes by message id18:41
j1mOh my god, you present lists of choices to users based on message id ordering?18:42
SteveAany choices would be in some other logical order.  like low -> medium -> high.  It is a pain when these get sorted by their text ;-)18:42
SteveAfor translating them, of course18:42
SteveApeople like to work through the pofile, and often the original ordering is significant, grouped by related area in ways we can't algorithmically tell18:43
SteveAbut in any case, the source language is always english18:43
SteveAso, if we don't have a translation into something else, then sorting would be in english anyway18:43
SteveAthe only case i can think of right now where this would be useful is in presenting a list of countries as destinations for shipit18:44
SteveAbecause each locale has its own names for the countries of the world, often sorting differently18:45
SteveAbut we're a long way from offering shipit in multiple languages.  mainly because the shipping company only copes with a limited subset of ascii18:45
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SteveAso we can't send things to china using chinese characters, even though the application could easily accept it18:46
SteveA(shipit is the application that allows you to order ubuntu CDs)18:46
SteveAi can't think of all that many places where i want to sort things alphabetically, even in english18:46
SteveA - countries of the world18:47
benjia further compication is the difference between lexicographic order and alphanumeric order18:47
SteveA - people's names / email addresses.  (locale-specific doesn't help a lot here when you have people from all over the world.  although i'll accept it can help a marginal amount.)18:47
JoaoJoaoHow can I do cataloging in Z3?18:48
SteveA - arbitrary tags / user-defined tags on content18:49
SteveA - operating system package names: constrained to ascii anyway18:49
efgej1m: sorting by locale is definitely useful in general, notwithstanding what SteveA's use cases are18:50
j1mWell, in Zope, add lists is a common example of why you need this.18:50
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j1mI need to go to a meeting.... later18:51
SteveAsure.  in that case, as in many others, all you have is words, and all the words are in the same language18:51
SteveAi guess i just don't have any of those use-cases.18:51
SteveAi bet efge has them though18:51
efgeSteveA: well those you mentionned, countries, people's names, user tags, are already quite important yes18:52
efgeoften I also want to sort documents according to their title18:53
SteveAwhen they are all from one language18:54
SteveAor compatible languages18:54
SteveAhaving a mixture of chinese, arabic, english and amharic docs is tough18:54
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srichterj1m: sorry, I just got a phone call; I am back18:59
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srichterj1m: the reason I reimplemented the ICU code was because the Python code was very alpha19:00
srichterand the C/C++ API seemed extremly low-level19:01
srichterand covered much more than I was willing to deal with19:01
srichteradn we really did not want to use all of ICU anyways19:01
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srichterok, I am here too19:34
j1mso icu has a python binding already?19:35
j1mHas it matured any?19:35
srichterI have no clue19:35
srichterI have not looked at it since a loing time19:35
srichterI thinkt he Python guys were working on it not as part of the project19:36
j1mMartin von Lowis threadened to do an ICU binding, maybe just for sorting, in 2002, but I tkink he may have dropped it.19:36
j1mwhat python guys19:36
srichteryeah, right, it was Martin19:37
srichterI think they had some code back then too19:37
srichteror I could not find anything? Ireally can't remember19:38
j1mHm, the README claims it covers the collation apis.19:41
j1m(I hadn't noticed that when I looked yesterday.)19:41
srichteryep, that seems to be the only thing though19:42
j1mYeah, but that's all I need atm. :)19:44
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srichterI really hope you are going to enhance zope.i18n19:48
j1mI really hope you are going to enhance zope.i18n19:49
srichterwell, you are working on collate right now ;-)19:49
j1mI'm thinking of working on collate right now. :)19:50
srichtercool :-)19:52
j1mThis doesn't look very promising19:52
srichterthe code on the CVS. you mean?19:53
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j1mis anyone interested in doing a Z3 tutorial at PyCon this February?20:05
srichterj1m: does it pay for the airfare?20:05
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j1mApparently, there have been a lot of requests for a Zope tutorial of some sort.20:06
j1msrichter, I suspect they would.20:06
srichterj1m: of my traveling costs are covered, I'll do it20:06
j1mk, I'll put you in touch.20:07
newpers_where is it?20:14
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tiredbonesjlm, have you accepted to do a tutorial on zope?21:43
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tiredbonesj1m, have you accepted to do a tutorial on zope?21:44
j1mwho are you?21:49
j1mI suggested that srichter would do one.21:50
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JoaoJoaoMJ: Are u playing with Z3 catalogs?22:11
MJNope, not at the moment22:11
JoaoJoaoWell I'm looking for someone who can tell me how to do catalog in Z322:12
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