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| eins | hi all | 08:09 |
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| eins | hi zagy:) | 08:40 |
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| romanofski | moin | 09:28 |
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| srichter | J1m: who is Jacom Holm? | 15:55 |
| J1m | Thankyou. Jacob Holm. | 15:57 |
| J1m | He's with Improva and worked on this problem with me. | 15:57 |
| J1m | He provided most of the expertise. | 15:57 |
| srichter | ah, ok | 15:57 |
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| srichter | J1m: btw, I am totally +1, looks good | 15:58 |
| J1m | I agonized quite a bit about the ICU integration implementation. | 15:59 |
| J1m | Finally decided to do something myself with Pyrex. | 15:59 |
| J1m | I'm very happy with the result. | 15:59 |
| elro | Are the api docs online somwhere? google's not very helpful I can't use ++apidoc++ when my code is full of bugs preventing the server starting | 15:59 |
| srichter | elro: no, it is not | 16:00 |
| J1m | It's a good idea. | 16:00 |
| srichter | elro: but the trunk and the Zope 3.2 branch provide a script that can create static API docs now | 16:00 |
| srichter | if I get the server space soemwhere, we could put them up | 16:01 |
| srichter | (note that the script takes about 30 minutes to run) | 16:01 |
| J1m | Doesn't the beta release include the script? | 16:01 |
| srichter | yes, it does | 16:01 |
| srichter | (I hope) | 16:01 |
| srichter | but I am pretty sure I checked that | 16:01 |
| andres | srichter, if there is interest, i can but the docs on a server for now. | 16:03 |
| andres | s/but/put/ ;-) | 16:03 |
| srichter | cool! | 16:04 |
| srichter | I think this would make many people happy | 16:04 |
| andres | Do you have them ready? | 16:04 |
| srichter | I could generate them from the branch | 16:05 |
| andres | Would be good. The connection to my computer at home is broken, and here at work i dont have the possibilities. And on the server i dont have zope installed. | 16:06 |
| andres | yet ;-) | 16:06 |
| srichter | ok | 16:06 |
| srichter | note that the file will be quite large, though | 16:06 |
| andres | how big? | 16:06 |
| J1m | You don't need Zope to post the apidoc | 16:06 |
| srichter | do you have an FTP server or something similar? | 16:06 |
| srichter | I think last time I checked it was 200 MB | 16:07 |
| andres | srichter, yes. | 16:07 |
| andres | J1m, why not? | 16:07 |
| andres | srichter, sftp | 16:07 |
| J1m | Because the script generates static html. | 16:07 |
| J1m | You need zope to run the script | 16:07 |
| J1m | but not to serve the result. | 16:08 |
| andres | J1m, i mean, that i dont have zope installed there, so that i cant run the script there. | 16:08 |
| J1m | ah | 16:08 |
| elro | I'm a little confused about schema fields and default items. Do I have to define an attribute on my class implementing my schema for each field? and if so does the values I put there act as a default instead of the default=u"foo" on my schema? or can I have a nearly blank class that just implements my schema? | 16:08 |
| srichter | J1m: andres: Should I create the docs from the release or the SVN checkout? | 16:09 |
| J1m | Both. But I;d say the release for now. | 16:11 |
| elro | just a comment on the api browser while I think of it, it makes it very easy to fine the interfaces, but at least for schema field types it is a little tricky to find the type definitions themselves (I guess because they are in a _fields module) | 16:11 |
| J1m | This is a job for ... da da da ... buildbot. | 16:11 |
| andres | srichter, if you create both, i can put both online. | 16:12 |
| benji | it is, J1m? | 16:12 |
| andres | For the moment i have plenty of space and traffic (i dont think it will go over a few gigabyte) | 16:12 |
| srichter | J1m: yep, I have said this before | 16:12 |
| srichter | same with building a release | 16:12 |
| J1m | benji, yes, at least for the dev docs. | 16:12 |
| benji | seems like a job for cron | 16:12 |
| benji | to react to checkins? | 16:13 |
| J1m | yeah, perhaps | 16:13 |
| J1m | good point | 16:13 |
| elro | thanks for your introductory document benji, it really helps! | 16:13 |
| benji | if it takes 30 minutes to build, I doubt we want to be rebuilding it all the time | 16:13 |
| J1m | benji, unless it was only built by one slave | 16:13 |
| srichter | does buildbot have to react on every checkin? | 16:14 |
| J1m | srichter, that is the normal pattern. | 16:14 |
| srichter | I See | 16:14 |
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| benji | buildbot is great for what it does, but cron is much better for regularly scheduling tasks | 16:14 |
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| J1m | except that what we need here is a pretty small increment on what we already have set up. | 16:15 |
| benji | if you say so | 16:16 |
| J1m | That's the spirit! | 16:17 |
| srichter | :-) | 16:17 |
| andres | Say when you are ready. | 16:17 |
| benji | I try to spread the spirit whereever I go (the spirit of sarcasm that is) | 16:18 |
| andres | to upload i mean. | 16:18 |
| srichter | andres: yep | 16:18 |
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| andres | srichter, do you have a client which understands sftp? | 16:27 |
| srichter | I think Konqui does it happily | 16:28 |
| srichter | can you give me (privately) the access info, so I can try? | 16:28 |
| andres | yes | 16:29 |
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| srichter | benji: is Gary around? | 16:40 |
| benji | don't know, I'm working from home today | 16:40 |
| benji | He's on IM | 16:41 |
| srichter | ok | 16:41 |
| MacYET | srichter: did i tell you that the zpt implementation of z2 is a piece of crap? :) | 16:42 |
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| srichter | MacYET: no, but I am not surprised :-) | 16:46 |
| zbir | heh: "Python: the only language with more Web frameworks than keywords" | 16:47 |
| MacYET | LOL | 16:48 |
| * elro has just got his first z3 edit form showing :-) | 16:49 | |
| MacYET | srichter: the zpt implementation of Z3 internally only works with unicode? | 16:50 |
| benji | that's why Zope is better than the others, they only have one web framework, we have two! | 16:51 |
| srichter | MacYET: I think so, yes | 16:52 |
| efge | MacYET: yes | 16:52 |
| MacYET | I wonder how to deal with the rest of the scary z2 zpt implementation | 16:53 |
| J1m | MacYET, aside from unicode vs text, I think we need to fugure out what's different wry features. | 16:54 |
| J1m | I thin Z2 ZPT has some featurs not in Z3's. | 16:54 |
| J1m | I suggest trying to coax Evan into helping out. | 16:54 |
| J1m | The text issue is more troublesome. | 16:55 |
| MacYET | jup, will..i first have to understand what this crap all does | 16:55 |
| MacYET | horror code | 16:55 |
| MacYET | :) | 16:55 |
| efge | what's the "text issue"? Uses of ustr() ? | 16:55 |
| J1m | This is another big issue that needs to be dealt with in general. | 16:55 |
| J1m | efge, the fact that Z2 doesn't have a consistent unicode strategy. | 16:56 |
| J1m | In Z3, we decided that: | 16:56 |
| J1m | - All internal text would be unicode, therefore | 16:56 |
| efge | Z2 in general yes, but I think that for Z2 zpt it's pretty clear, it's trying to be agnostic | 16:56 |
| J1m | - the publisher decodes input and encodes output. | 16:56 |
| J1m | This was a major simplification for app developers. | 16:57 |
| efge | and I +100 on it :) | 16:57 |
| J1m | This in large part allows us to avoid some of the horrors of dealing with unicode in python. | 16:57 |
| J1m | We could decide this for z3 because we had no legacy code to deal with. | 16:58 |
| J1m | We can't simply take the same approach for Z2. | 16:58 |
| J1m | Not and be backward compatible. | 16:58 |
| J1m | We need to figure out a way to transition z2 to the same place. | 16:58 |
| J1m | This was discussed on the list a few months back, but we need a proposal. | 16:59 |
| J1m | MacYET, much thanks for working on this! | 17:00 |
| J1m | Of course, text handling is a much bigger issue. | 17:01 |
| J1m | It is common practice in z2 to set the default encoding. | 17:01 |
| J1m | This is evil, though understandable. | 17:01 |
| MacYET | J1m: np :-) | 17:01 |
| MacYET | i love to kick ugly code | 17:01 |
| J1m | It is symptomatic of the problem, as illustrated by a discussion with Deiter on the subject a few weeks ago. | 17:02 |
| J1m | Coming up with a plan for this is another big thing to do for this release cycle. | 17:02 |
| J1m | It is probaly a prerequisit for MacYET to finish his work. | 17:03 |
| J1m | probably | 17:03 |
| J1m | (almost certainly) | 17:03 |
| MacYET | next yr :) | 17:04 |
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| J1m | I'll send a note to the list asking for volunteers. :) | 17:04 |
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| elro | hmm, I've not marked any of my schema fields with required=True, but the generated form seems to mark all fields as required anyway. Any ideas what I could be doing wrong? | 17:20 |
| J1m | Field fields have default values. | 17:21 |
| J1m | The default for required is true. | 17:21 |
| elro | right, thanks | 17:21 |
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| zmi_junkie | i just got sapdbda running ! | 17:26 |
| zmi_junkie | with Zope 40428 | 17:26 |
| zmi_junkie | where can I dump the sources ? | 17:27 |
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| srichter | zmi_junkie: you mean Zope 3? | 17:27 |
| srichter | zmi_junkie: are you a contributor? | 17:27 |
| zmi_junkie | jes | 17:27 |
| zmi_junkie | I patched your sources a bit | 17:28 |
| srichter | then just put it into repos/main/sapdbda | 17:28 |
| zmi_junkie | but I am willing to send the resukt back ;-) | 17:28 |
| zmi_junkie | maybe sending you the tarball by e-mail would be easier ? | 17:29 |
| zmi_junkie | I have not got write access | 17:29 |
| zmi_junkie | to svn | 17:29 |
| srichter | zmi_junkie: would you like to become a contributor? | 17:30 |
| zmi_junkie | might be to dangerous for a start ?-) | 17:31 |
| srichter | just sign the agreement, scan it, send it to Jim (jim_at_zope_dot_com), and upload your ket | 17:31 |
| srichter | zmi_junkie: naeh | 17:31 |
| srichter | we can always revert | 17:31 |
| zmi_junkie | maybe some has a look at this bevor | 17:31 |
| srichter | and having a fix is better than not having it | 17:31 |
| zmi_junkie | sounds great ;-) | 17:31 |
| zmi_junkie | I only made it work for me using utf8 Zope3 and utf-sapdb | 17:32 |
| srichter | the DB Adapter is not part of the trunk, so there is little you can mess up :-) | 17:32 |
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| zmi_junkie | i was a bit confused because I cannot really remmber where I got yours from | 17:33 |
| zmi_junkie | well something that does something is still better than nothing | 17:33 |
| zmi_junkie | ok I try to get access somehow by reading in the developer documents | 17:34 |
| srichter | thanks a lot | 17:34 |
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| elro | If I want to protect on field with a different permission to the others, is there a way to do it without specifying all permissions at the attribute level? (i.e I want to override a 'default' permission for an interface with a permission on a single attribute) | 17:43 |
| MacYET | how do you deal with the unknown encoding of text coming from http uploads? | 17:49 |
| srichter | fallback is always UTF-8 | 17:50 |
| MacYET | hm..do you expect the encoding in the http header? | 17:50 |
| andres | efge, you could split it into two different interfaces | 17:53 |
| efge | s/efge/elro/ | 17:53 |
| andres | efge, sorry. | 17:53 |
| elro | thanks | 17:54 |
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| d2m | anyone willing to help me a second on a zope.org problem ? seems there exists a monkey patch that sets a sort_limit on catalog searches to 200 (http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zopeorg-checkins/2003-August/000536.html) -- is it already ion place and if, could it be removed or the linit raised to a higher number ? | 18:46 |
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| J1m | d2m, let's move to the zope.org channel, whose name I can't remember. | 18:50 |
| d2m | #zope-web it is and thanks | 18:50 |
| * srichter enjoys the first snow storm of the season so much today :-) | 18:56 | |
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| * srichter is in pure fascination about a thunderstorm in the middle of a snowstorm | 21:45 | |
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| * jfmoxley is also amazed... how the heck is there lightning in the middle of a blizzard? | 22:03 | |
| srichter | cool, eh? | 22:09 |
| WebMaven | srichter: pix? | 22:11 |
| srichter | pix? | 22:12 |
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| tarek | srichter, WebMaven meant picture i believe | 22:17 |
| srichter | oh, I can make you a picture of the storm, but will not have the lightening of course | 22:18 |
| srichter | the blizzard itself is not that spectacular, in comparison to some other ones I have seen in boston | 22:19 |
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| * srichter notes that the blizzard is over and I think we will even see a beautiful sunset; gotta love Boston weather | 22:56 | |
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| zmi_junkie | srichter: got that PDF from Jim ;-) | 23:27 |
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