IRC log of #zope3-dev for Friday, 2005-12-09

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einshi all08:09
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zagyhi eins08:38
einshi zagy:)08:40
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srichterJ1m: who is Jacom Holm?15:55
J1mThankyou. Jacob Holm.15:57
J1mHe's with Improva and worked on this problem with me.15:57
J1mHe provided most of the expertise.15:57
srichterah, ok15:57
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srichterJ1m: btw, I am totally +1, looks good15:58
J1mI agonized quite a bit about the ICU integration implementation.15:59
J1mFinally decided to do something myself with Pyrex.15:59
J1mI'm very happy with the result.15:59
elroAre the api docs online somwhere? google's not very helpful I can't use ++apidoc++ when my code is full of bugs preventing the server starting15:59
srichterelro: no, it is not16:00
J1mIt's a good idea.16:00
srichterelro: but the trunk and the Zope 3.2 branch provide a script that can create static API docs now16:00
srichterif I get the server space soemwhere, we could put them up16:01
srichter(note that the script takes about 30 minutes to run)16:01
J1mDoesn't the beta release include the script?16:01
srichteryes, it does16:01
srichter(I hope)16:01
srichterbut I am pretty sure I checked that16:01
andressrichter, if there is interest, i can but the docs on a server for now.16:03
andress/but/put/ ;-)16:03
srichterI think this would make many people happy16:04
andresDo you have them ready?16:04
srichterI could generate them from the branch16:05
andresWould be good. The connection to my computer at home is broken, and here at work i dont have the possibilities. And on the server i dont have zope installed.16:06
andresyet ;-)16:06
srichternote that the file will be quite large, though16:06
andreshow big?16:06
J1mYou don't need Zope to post the apidoc16:06
srichterdo you have an FTP server or something similar?16:06
srichterI think last time I checked it was 200 MB16:07
andressrichter, yes.16:07
andresJ1m, why not?16:07
andressrichter, sftp16:07
J1mBecause the script generates static html.16:07
J1mYou need zope to run the script16:07
J1mbut not to serve the result.16:08
andresJ1m, i mean, that i dont have zope installed there, so that i cant run the script there.16:08
elroI'm a little confused about schema fields and default items. Do I have to define an attribute on my class implementing my schema for each field? and if so does the values I put there act as a default instead of the default=u"foo" on my schema? or can I have a nearly blank class that just implements my schema?16:08
srichterJ1m: andres: Should I create the docs from the release or the SVN checkout?16:09
J1mBoth. But I;d say the release for now.16:11
elrojust a comment on the api browser while I think of it, it makes it very easy to fine the interfaces, but at least for schema field types it is a little tricky to find the type definitions themselves (I guess because they are in a _fields module)16:11
J1mThis is a job for ... da da da ... buildbot.16:11
andressrichter, if you create both, i can put both online.16:12
benjiit is, J1m?16:12
andresFor the moment i have plenty of space and traffic (i dont think it will go over a few gigabyte)16:12
srichterJ1m: yep, I have said this before16:12
srichtersame with building a release16:12
J1mbenji, yes, at least for the dev docs.16:12
benjiseems like a job for cron16:12
benjito react to checkins?16:13
J1myeah, perhaps16:13
J1mgood point16:13
elrothanks for your introductory document benji, it really helps!16:13
benjiif it takes 30 minutes to build, I doubt we want to be rebuilding it all the time16:13
J1mbenji, unless it was only built by one slave16:13
srichterdoes buildbot have to react on every checkin?16:14
J1msrichter, that is the normal pattern.16:14
srichterI See16:14
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benjibuildbot is great for what it does, but cron is much better for regularly scheduling tasks16:14
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J1mexcept that what we need here is a pretty small increment on what we already have set up.16:15
benjiif you say so16:16
J1mThat's the spirit!16:17
andresSay when you are ready.16:17
benjiI try to spread the spirit whereever I go (the spirit of sarcasm that is)16:18
andresto upload i mean.16:18
srichterandres: yep16:18
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andressrichter, do you have a client which understands sftp?16:27
srichterI think Konqui does it happily16:28
srichtercan you give me (privately) the access info, so I can try?16:28
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srichterbenji: is Gary around?16:40
benjidon't know, I'm working from home today16:40
benjiHe's on IM16:41
MacYETsrichter: did i tell you that the zpt implementation of z2 is a piece of crap? :)16:42
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srichterMacYET: no, but I am not surprised :-)16:46
zbirheh: "Python: the only language with more Web frameworks than keywords"16:47
* elro has just got his first z3 edit form showing :-)16:49
MacYETsrichter: the zpt implementation of Z3 internally only works with unicode?16:50
benjithat's why Zope is better than the others, they only have one web framework, we have two!16:51
srichterMacYET: I think so, yes16:52
efgeMacYET: yes16:52
MacYETI wonder how to deal with the rest of the scary z2 zpt implementation16:53
J1mMacYET, aside from unicode vs text, I think we need to fugure out what's different wry features.16:54
J1mI thin Z2 ZPT has some featurs not in Z3's.16:54
J1mI suggest trying to coax Evan into helping out.16:54
J1mThe text issue is more troublesome.16:55
MacYETjup, will..i first have to understand what this crap all does16:55
MacYEThorror code16:55
efgewhat's the "text issue"? Uses of ustr() ?16:55
J1mThis is another big issue that needs to be dealt with in general.16:55
J1mefge, the fact that Z2 doesn't have a consistent unicode strategy.16:56
J1mIn Z3, we decided that:16:56
J1m- All internal text would be unicode, therefore16:56
efgeZ2 in general yes, but I think that for Z2 zpt it's pretty clear, it's trying to be agnostic16:56
J1m- the publisher decodes input and encodes output.16:56
J1mThis was a major simplification for app developers.16:57
efgeand I +100 on it :)16:57
J1m This in large part allows us to avoid some of the horrors of dealing with unicode in python.16:57
J1mWe could decide this for z3 because we had no legacy code to deal with.16:58
J1mWe can't simply take the same approach for Z2.16:58
J1mNot and be backward compatible.16:58
J1mWe need to figure out a way to transition z2 to the same place.16:58
J1mThis was discussed on the list a few months back, but we need a proposal.16:59
J1mMacYET, much thanks for working on this!17:00
J1mOf course, text handling is a much bigger issue.17:01
J1mIt is common practice in z2 to set the default encoding.17:01
J1mThis is evil, though understandable.17:01
MacYETJ1m: np :-)17:01
MacYETi love to kick ugly code17:01
J1mIt is symptomatic of the problem, as illustrated by a discussion with Deiter on the subject a few weeks ago.17:02
J1mComing up with a plan for this is another big thing to do for this release cycle.17:02
J1mIt is probaly a prerequisit for MacYET to finish his work.17:03
J1m(almost certainly)17:03
MacYETnext yr :)17:04
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J1mI'll send a note to the list asking for volunteers. :)17:04
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elrohmm, I've not marked any of my schema fields with required=True, but the generated form seems to mark all fields as required anyway. Any ideas what I could be doing wrong?17:20
J1mField fields have default values.17:21
J1mThe default for required is true.17:21
elroright, thanks17:21
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zmi_junkiei just got sapdbda running !17:26
zmi_junkiewith Zope 4042817:26
zmi_junkiewhere can I dump the sources ?17:27
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srichterzmi_junkie: you mean Zope 3?17:27
srichterzmi_junkie: are you a contributor?17:27
zmi_junkieI patched your sources a bit17:28
srichterthen just put it into repos/main/sapdbda17:28
zmi_junkiebut I am willing to send the resukt back ;-)17:28
zmi_junkiemaybe sending you the tarball by e-mail would be easier ?17:29
zmi_junkieI have not got write access17:29
zmi_junkieto svn17:29
srichterzmi_junkie: would you like to become a contributor?17:30
zmi_junkiemight be to dangerous for a start ?-)17:31
srichterjust sign the agreement, scan it, send it to Jim (jim_at_zope_dot_com), and upload your ket17:31
srichterzmi_junkie: naeh17:31
srichterwe can always revert17:31
zmi_junkiemaybe some has a look at this bevor17:31
srichterand having a fix is better than not having it17:31
zmi_junkiesounds great ;-)17:31
zmi_junkieI only made it work for me using utf8 Zope3 and utf-sapdb17:32
srichterthe DB Adapter is not part of the trunk, so there is little you can mess up :-)17:32
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zmi_junkiei was a bit confused because I cannot really remmber where I got yours from17:33
zmi_junkiewell something that does something is still better than nothing17:33
zmi_junkieok I try to get access somehow by reading in the developer documents17:34
srichterthanks a lot17:34
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elroIf I want to protect on field with a different permission to the others, is there a way to do it without specifying all permissions at the attribute level? (i.e I want to override a 'default' permission for an interface with a permission on a single attribute)17:43
MacYEThow do you deal with the unknown encoding of text coming from http uploads?17:49
srichterfallback is always UTF-817:50 you expect the encoding in the http header?17:50
andresefge, you could split it into two different interfaces17:53
andresefge, sorry.17:53
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d2manyone willing to help me a second on a problem ? seems there exists a monkey patch that sets a sort_limit on catalog searches to 200 ( -- is it already ion place and if, could it be removed or the linit raised to a higher number ?18:46
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J1md2m, let's move to the channel, whose name I can't remember.18:50
d2m#zope-web it is and thanks18:50
* srichter enjoys the first snow storm of the season so much today :-)18:56
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* srichter is in pure fascination about a thunderstorm in the middle of a snowstorm21:45
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* jfmoxley is also amazed... how the heck is there lightning in the middle of a blizzard?22:03
srichtercool, eh?22:09
WebMavensrichter: pix?22:11
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tareksrichter, WebMaven meant picture i believe22:17
srichteroh, I can make you a picture of the storm, but will not have the lightening of course22:18
srichterthe blizzard itself is not that spectacular, in comparison to some other ones I have seen in boston22:19
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* srichter notes that the blizzard is over and I think we will even see a beautiful sunset; gotta love Boston weather22:56
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zmi_junkiesrichter: got that PDF from Jim ;-)23:27
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