IRC log of #zope3-dev for Friday, 2006-01-13

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sawdogany windows users here?  We're running zope3 on windows, and have some odd behavior that looks really buggy00:14
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projekt01sawdog, which versions are you using?00:16
sawdogwe were doing the Hello World tutorial, and what's happening is this00:17
projekt01The installer *.exe or the trunk?00:17
sawdogwe wired up the hello world tutorial, and have the 'add menu item'00:17
sawdogwe can add instances00:17
sawdogbut mysteriously when viewing the contents, added instances appear and disappear00:17
sawdogso we thought maybe it was caching at the browser00:18
projekt01I guess this happens in Internet Explorer, right?00:18
sawdogbut, going into the debugger, objects added are not there when doing:  list(app.root().keys())00:18
sawdoghappens in both browsers actually, firefox and IE00:18
sawdogthe oddest thing is, I added a new instance named 'foo'; it would show up and disappear on various page loads00:19
sawdogso I went into the debugger, and it doesn't show up in the list(app.root().keys())00:19
projekt01Does it also happen if you hit "ctrl and F5" on the page where the content isn't show but should00:20
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sawdogyes, it would randomly show up or not when doing a ctrl-f5 forcing a reload00:21
projekt01Can you start z3 from command line and see (in the DOS box) if the server get really called by the request from the client?00:23
J1mdo you have any content objects that don't subclass Persistent?00:24
sawdogso the latest one is:00:24
sawdogadded an item, it disappeared, go into the debugger, it showed up in the root object's keys, restarted zope, it showed back up in the browser, tried to delete the item, and get a key error, on the instance that was behaving odly00:24
sawdogJ1m, all of these in question derive from persistent.Persistent00:24
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sawdogjust following Benji's simple tutorial.....00:25
J1mIs there anything unusual about the installation?00:25
sawdogjust double clicked the installer and then ran the mkzopeinstance.bat file00:25
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J1mAs you know, we deleivered a large Zope 3 project on windows without problem.00:26
sawdogyeah, I do....since I've never tried running zope on windows; I've no idea what it could be - but we're seeing it for certain00:26
sawdogcould be something with 3.2 ?00:27
J1mCould be, but I don't really see how.00:27
projekt01sawdog, add a print statement in the view's __init__ method and make sure that statement get printed in the z3.log. So you can make sure that's not a browser caching problem.00:27
sawdogI can't duplicate this on Linux - though my 'test' isn't using Benji's tutorial exactly like these windows guys are doing00:28
sawdogwe're certain 110% it's not browser caching00:28
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sawdogbecause, I added an instance with the id 'fsckit'00:28
sawdogit showed up, disappeared, showed up, etc00:28
sawdogwent into the debugger, and it's not in the root object00:28
* tank2121 is the neophyte seeing the errors..00:29
sawdogwe'll try that project0100:29
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J1mJust for the halibut, you might try runnig mkzopeinstance with the --zserver option.00:30
J1mI doubt that will make a difference, but if we're flailing, it's a reasonable flail. :)00:31
sawdogok, we'll do that now and at least see00:31
projekt01perhaps you can upload the package somewhere on the web, then I could download and check it on my machine.00:32
sawdogjust the 'hello' world package?00:33
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sawdogtank2121 has it; so he'll upload it and let you know00:41
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sawdogBTW Jim, running the mkzopeinstance on a 64bit linux machine doesn't work - at least on my Suse setup.  I do have a fix for that....should I file a tracker issue?00:42
sawdoglooking for the software home, presumes lib/python - on my 64bit setup, it's lib64/python00:42
J1msawdog, this seems to be system dependent.00:43
tank2121per sawdog's request, the windows zope instance is at   file called zope.rar.. linked on that html page.00:43
J1mFor example, this doesn't seem to be a problem on 64-bit ubuntu00:43
sawdogreally?  Hmmm, problematic to add it to the check in the mkzopeinstance?00:44
J1mSomeone already submitted an issue for gentoo.00:44
sawdogI just added the tuple ('lib64', 'python')00:44
sawdogah, same problem?00:44
J1mPatches accepted.00:44
J1mI assume so00:44
sawdogaighty, definately will do00:44
J1mI can't fix it cause I can reproduce it.00:45
sawdoggotta run, I'll check back shortly.  I can provide a patch00:45
J1mYou can check in a change. (I assume.)00:45
sawdogI'll verify that Jim00:45
sawdogI'll brb00:45
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projekt01tank2121, which view does the hello example show only sometimes?00:52
projekt01the contents.html view of the hello's parent folder?00:52
projekt01sawdog, tank2121, your example is working fine on my win XP machine00:54
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bmcruguys what`s the room for newbies?08:53
bmcruok, I got it ;)08:54
WebMaven what kind of newbies?08:54
bmcrunewbies means questions about ZMI08:54
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fluffhi, i'm writing a thesis and i need to estimate the development time of an _average_ zope3 component16:12
fluffany ideas?16:13
Theuninow that would be interesting what an _average_ zope3 component is16:15
RockyBurtfluff: lol, whats the average time between 1sec and infinite time? :)16:16
Theuni$\inf/2$ ?16:16
Theuniwe shouldn't write that into the commercials ...16:17
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fluffyes it is.. but i have to estimate the cost.. perhaps something like half of java16:28
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fluffi know, that there is no _average_ ;o)16:28
srichter$\inf/2 = \inf$ so you gain nothing :-)16:29
mgedminit depends on the probability distribution16:29
srichterfluff: you don't estimate time by content components but by features of your application16:29
mgedminhow about a controled experiment: take a thousand monkeys, put them banging on keyboards, and measure the time for new z3 components to appear16:30
mgedminyou will need a good suite of unit tests16:30
srichtermoney experiments are expensive16:30
srichtertake some free interns from college instead :-)16:30
fluffmgedmin: i have some monkeys... they are students at the university, doing projects16:30
fluffanother thing i want to develop a gtk2 program using glade16:33
fluffthese gladefiles coming into zope16:33
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fluffand i have a weblike-client but with gtk for ui16:34
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fluffdoes it sound too weird?16:35
srichternope, but I hope you thought hard about the issue16:35
srichterit is very complex16:35
fluffi'm still thinking...16:36
flufftwisted reactor seemed to be a solution16:36
srichterbecause you have to be able to detect different versions of a particular component16:36
srichterso you are running Zope 3 and the GTK GUI application in the same Python instance?16:37
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mgedminor are you writing a GUI app that talks to Zope 3 over HTTP?16:37
fluffi'm not running anything at the moment. it has to be a concept in my thesis.16:37
srichtermgedmin: right, this was my first thought, till he started talking about the reactor16:38
fluffbut i have money here at the university to develop it after my thesis16:38
srichterwithout being more concrete there is no way any of us can help you in a meaningful way16:38
srichterwithout being more concrete info there is no way any of us can help you in a meaningful way16:38
fluffso i'm modelling something... hopefully nice16:40
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fluffbut yes, first i wanted to communicate over http with the gtk client to a zope instance16:40
srichterwell, if you want your GTK client to communicate with several servers, you have to decide on a network protocol16:41
fluffso its a xmlrpc client probably16:41
srichterhowever, I would advise you using a Python-RPC one, since you can send pure Python objects16:42
fluffokay, thanks...16:42
fluffi will be here in some months hopefully presenting something ;)16:42
srichterpeople have written Zoep 3 + wxWidgets applications using ZEO too16:42
srichterin that case you are interacting on the data level instead the application level16:43
srichterthe drawback there is that ZODB and ZEO do not have native security built in16:43
mgedmin(one advantage of xmlrpc would be that you can use other programming languages to talk to the server, not just python)16:45
mgedminis xmlrpc useable from javascript for ajax purposes?16:45
fluffso we could have a gtk and a web client using the same objects16:46
srichtermgedmin: good question, but there is an XML-RPC client for JS16:47
benjimgedmin, yes, but from a browser people would normally use JSON16:48
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mgedminyou can use JSON to present data, but you can't use to make changes, can you?16:48
benjisorry, I was imprecise, JSON over HTTP16:49
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taharahello j1m, ayt?16:56
taharaI sent a contributor agreement on last month.16:56
taharadid you received it?16:56
J1mwhat is your id?16:56
taharamy id is "yusei"16:57
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J1mHow did you send it?16:57
taharaI sent a sealed letter.16:58
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J1mI didn't get it yet. Where did you send it from?16:59
J1mWhat is your full name?16:59
taharaah, I sent it from tokyo in japan.17:00
taharamy name is "Yusei Tahara".17:00
J1mInternational mail seems to take a long time.17:00
J1mWho did you addess the mail to?17:00
taharaoh I see.17:00
srichterif you send it around Christmas time it can easily take 6 weeks17:01
taharaI sent to zope corporation.17:01
J1mYou didn't address it to a particular person?17:01
J1mOK, I'll ask he person who opens mail to look out for it.17:02
taharathank you.17:03
J1mIt's obviously a lot faster to send scanned copies.17:03
J1mvia email17:04
taharaoh, then I'll send a scanned copy.17:05
taharaok. thanks!17:05
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ignas(Pdb) p type(translate(_("This is mindboggling")))18:54
ignas<type 'zope.i18nmessageid.message.Message'>18:54
ignas(Pdb) p type(translate(_("This is mindboggling", mapping={'any': 'thing'})))18:54
ignas<type 'unicode'>18:54
mgedminthe code that I just pasted (while pretending to be ignas) is part of a debugging session18:55
mgedminwe have a DeprecationWarning raised in a page template from code like this: tal:content="event/description"18:55
mgedminevent.description is supposed to be a Unicode string18:56
mgedminbut it is generated by the software and must be i18nized18:56
mgedminso we take _("description text") and pass it through zope.i18n.translate18:56
SteveAdoes _ work as you expect in the debugger?18:57
SteveAit means "last value" does it not?18:58
mgedmingood point18:58
* mgedmin goes to check18:58
ignas(Pdb) p _18:58
ignas<zope.i18nmessageid.message.MessageFactory object at 0xb7da634c>18:58
SteveAthen 1+118:58
SteveAthen p _18:58
ignas(Pdb) 1 + 118:58
ignas(Pdb) p _18:58
ignas<zope.i18nmessageid.message.MessageFactory object at 0xb7da634c>18:58
ignas(Pdb) p 1 + 118:59
ignas(Pdb) p _18:59
ignas<zope.i18nmessageid.message.MessageFactory object at 0xb7da634c>18:59
SteveAokay then18:59
SteveAit it not so insane18:59
ignasreally ?18:59
mgedminI think the i18n translation does a shortcut somewhere18:59
mgedmin"oh, we don't have a translation for this msgid, so let's return the default value, which happens to be the messageid itself"19:00
mgedmintime to write a short testcase and file a bug in the collector, I guess19:00
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* mgedmin writes, and attaches the patch that ignas wrote20:06
* mgedmin needs coffee20:06
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fluffzpt is not limited to html, right? so can it be used to generate glade files too.20:47
RockyBurtfluff: it can be used for any sort of text files but is best suited to text files that conform to something like xml (xhtml) where additional whitespace is ignored20:48
fluffRockyBurt: i see, thanks20:49
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