IRC log of #zope3-dev for Saturday, 2006-05-06

*** hazmat has joined #zope3-dev00:31
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o hazmat00:31
*** oferw has quit IRC00:31
*** admp has quit IRC00:43
*** hazmat has quit IRC00:43
*** j1m has quit IRC00:52
*** hazmat has joined #zope3-dev01:05
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o hazmat01:05
*** yota has quit IRC01:11
*** hazmat has quit IRC01:11
*** benji has quit IRC01:11
*** senra has quit IRC01:17
*** rocky|new-baby has quit IRC01:22
*** alecm has quit IRC01:33
*** kamalgill has left #zope3-dev01:39
*** natea has quit IRC02:11
*** hazmat has joined #zope3-dev02:14
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o hazmat02:14
*** jinty has joined #zope3-dev02:16
*** natea has joined #zope3-dev02:17
*** hazmat has quit IRC02:52
*** hazmat has joined #zope3-dev04:21
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o hazmat04:21
*** senra has joined #zope3-dev04:26
*** hazmat has quit IRC04:45
*** hazmat has joined #zope3-dev05:01
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o hazmat05:01
*** mexiKON has joined #zope3-dev05:15
*** hazmat has quit IRC05:26
*** philiKON has quit IRC05:32
*** senra has quit IRC05:39
*** senra has joined #zope3-dev06:09
*** senra has quit IRC06:09
*** niemeyer has quit IRC06:45
*** jinty has quit IRC07:09
*** RaFromBRC has quit IRC09:08
*** yota has joined #zope3-dev09:25
*** hazmat has joined #zope3-dev09:33
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o hazmat09:33
*** hazmat has quit IRC09:50
*** natea has quit IRC09:51
*** tarek has joined #zope3-dev10:08
*** hazmat has joined #zope3-dev10:12
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o hazmat10:12
*** hazmat has quit IRC10:13
*** Theuni has joined #zope3-dev10:16
*** oferw has joined #zope3-dev10:36
*** efrerich has joined #zope3-dev10:39
*** oferw has quit IRC11:01
*** mexiKON is now known as philiKON11:35
*** dunny has quit IRC11:39
*** Theuni has quit IRC12:02
*** volvox has joined #zope3-dev13:12
*** tarek has quit IRC13:19
*** volvox has quit IRC13:25
*** volvox has joined #zope3-dev13:26
*** agroszer has joined #zope3-dev13:27
*** natea has joined #zope3-dev13:34
*** dunny has joined #zope3-dev13:38
*** dunny has quit IRC13:46
*** rocky|new-baby has joined #zope3-dev14:11
*** natea has quit IRC14:31
*** jannur has joined #zope3-dev14:31
*** natea has joined #zope3-dev14:32
*** stub has joined #zope3-dev14:36
*** zbir has joined #zope3-dev14:46
*** agroszer has quit IRC14:46
*** agroszer has joined #zope3-dev14:46
*** Theuni has joined #zope3-dev14:49
*** Theuni has quit IRC15:04
*** jannur has quit IRC15:18
*** rocky|new-baby has quit IRC16:07
*** benji has joined #zope3-dev16:11
*** admp has joined #zope3-dev16:15
*** admp has quit IRC16:28
*** jannur has joined #zope3-dev16:37
*** rocky|new-baby has joined #zope3-dev16:38
*** senra has joined #zope3-dev16:42
*** agroszer has quit IRC17:06
*** stub has quit IRC17:23
*** tarek has joined #zope3-dev17:25
*** roym has joined #zope3-dev17:39
*** jannur has quit IRC17:42
*** tarek has quit IRC17:43
roymwhat is the python code equivalent for the tal syntax: "contextObj/@@viewOne"?17:44
roymI'm forced to use a nocall: like so...17:50
roym   <metal:block tal:define="viewOne nocall:contextObj/@@viewOne"17:50
roym                tal:content="python:viewOne('arg1')"/>17:50
roymJust wondered if there a direct way to refer to the view method17:50
roymin python.17:50
srichtergetMultiAdapter((contextObj, request), name="viewOne")17:51
roymcan I use getMultiAdapter in a page template? Wouldn't I have to do some sort of import for that? that has seemed kind of messy.17:52
srichterno, you do this in you view code17:58
srichteryou should *never* use a Python expression inside TAL17:58
roymsrichter: thanks. I keep falling into the trap of doing too much in TAL.18:29
senrasrichter: Well, if you should *never* use python in tal, why not deprecate it ? Or maybe  never is too strong18:34
*** BjornT_ has joined #zope3-dev18:45
*** BjornT has quit IRC18:46
*** BjornT_ is now known as BjornT18:46
senraMy point: an available mechanism carries an implicit allowance of use18:47
benjisenra, at best it's an escape hatch, at worst, an attractive neusance18:56
senrabenji: ok, but that means s/never/seldom/18:58
benjimore like, s/never/only unless it saves you from dieing a painful death/18:59
senraAnd, then these life-or-death choices must be clear for new comers, otherwise they' ll start using the emergency exit on a daily basis ;o)19:00
benjiright, that's the definition of "attractive neusance"19:01
senraso we' re on the same boat here, rowing in sync =)19:01
benjiit would seem so19:05
srichterI never use Python in ZPT19:12
srichterI would vote +1 for removing it, but we recently had this discussion already on the mailing lists19:13
benji100% agreed srichter19:13
srichterwanting to use Python in ZPT is the best indicator that you are doing your templating incorrectly19:13
senraI' m not saying I' m against it though19:14
srichterliving without Python in TAL before viewlets came around was a bit tougher, since macros did not have access to a view class19:14
senraIs there a "How to avoid using Python Expressions in TAL and become a respected community member" somewhere, or is this information still scattered around the net?19:16
srichterno, it's one of those Zen things :-)19:16
senraFurthermore, is this true just for z3, or zope2 dwellers could benefit from this also ?19:16
*** efrerich has quit IRC19:17
srichterif Zope 2 people use views like Zope 3 does (via Five), they have the same benefits19:17
srichterI ahve also heard that viewlets are now integrated in Zope 2 for the next release19:17
senraI just bought Zope3: Developer's Handbook (congratz), I' ll start to educate myself from there ;o)19:17
srichtersenra: if you have used push-based templating before, you will notice that you can use TAL + view classes as pure push as well19:18
srichterI more and more use TAL this way19:19
senraI also posses Philipps book by the way.19:19
srichtermy view class provides the data in TAL friedly formats (i.e. dicts and lists)19:19
senrasrichter: That is a good hint, I will experiment with that and get the feeling of it.19:19
srichternote that those TAL friendly data blocks often also specify things like "isSelected", odd versus even, etc19:21
*** jannur has joined #zope3-dev19:24
srichterdoes anyone here know a lot about Zope catalogs and indices?19:44
senraI guess "a lot" is very intimidating, but for Andreas Jung ... I certainly do not qualify.19:47
srichterI have a dictionary of questions and answers of the following structure:19:48
*** j1m has joined #zope3-dev19:48
srichter{'q1': 'This is answer one', 'q2': 'This is answer two.'}19:48
j1msrichter, any news on the releases? Need any help?19:48
srichterj1m: I am doing them this weekend for sure; I goit all the info from Tim I need19:49
srichterj1m: I just got stuck with some client work :-(19:49
*** efrerich has joined #zope3-dev19:49
j1mNothing wrong w client work. :)19:49
srichter:-) that's true too19:49
srichterPaid Zope 3 work is good news19:49
srichterj1m: maybe you can help me quickly19:50
srichterI have custom questions that a client must answer19:50
srichterso I store the answers ina  dictionary as follows:19:50
srichter{'q1': 'This is answer one', 'q2': 'This is answer two.'}19:50
srichternow I need to be able to say: Do a text search on q119:50
srichterClearly I do not want to create a text index for each question19:51
srichtersince the amout and names of the questions differ among objects19:51
srichterany idea?19:51
srichteror can the SetIndex and ValueIndex classes do text searches as well?19:52
j1mI don't know what you mean by "do a text search on q1."19:52
srichterI want to say: Return all objects whose answer to 'q1' satisfies X19:53
srichterfor example: return all objects where the answer to 'q1' contains 'answer one'19:53
srichtercurrently I am using a set index to index the questions as follows: ('19:54
srichtercurrently I am using a set index to index the questions as follows: ('q1', 'This is answer one')19:54
srichteritem = ('q1', 'This is answer one')19:55
srichterI want to query:19:55
j1mOK. So the answers are open ended. How many answers do you expect per question?19:55
srichterone answer per question19:55
srichterbut the amount and names of the questions differ19:55
j1mHow mant "objects" will there be (that have an answer to a particular question)?19:56
srichternot many19:57
srichterat the very most 200, I would think19:57
srichterlet me give you some context19:57
j1mso why not just do linear sub-string search?19:57
srichterI am developing an application for handling job applications19:57
j1mWhy bother with an index?19:58
srichterok, that would be my solution B19:58
srichterbut the query syntax for the text index is very nice :-)19:58
srichterI can say things like: "X and Y" or "X*"19:58
j1mok, then build a text index.19:58
j1mIf the amount of data is small, it doesn't make much difference one way or another.19:59
j1mYou could even create the index on the fly.19:59
srichterhow can I say: Look only in the answer for 'q1' with a text index?19:59
j1mBTW, you could use a shared lexicon.19:59
j1mbuild an index just for q1.20:00
j1mYou don't necessarily need to use a catalog.20:00
srichterindex on the fly... that sounds like a really good idea20:00
srichterwhat is a shared lexicon?20:00
srichterok, I am going with building an index on the fly; that seems scalable enough for now20:01
srichterif I need something better later, I can revisit the issue20:01
srichterthanks a lot20:01
j1ma text index actually indexes both words and documents.  The lexicon keeps track of all words and assigns them word ids.20:01
j1mYou could save a little work by managing a lexiom tha's shared among text indexes.20:02
srichterI see20:02
srichterok, that makes sense20:02
srichterthis gives me enough options to work with20:02
srichterthanks again20:02
*** j1m has quit IRC20:21
*** volvox has quit IRC20:48
*** volvox has joined #zope3-dev20:57
nateasrichter, are you interested in participating in Google Summer of Code?21:09
nateaPlone Foundation has been selected as a mentoring organization21:09
nateawhich means that students can submit proposals and if accepted, receive $4,500 from Google21:10
srichternatea: sure21:20
nateagreat!  you need to submit a proposal by Monday, May 821:21
nateadetailing what you'd like to work on21:21
srichternatea: oh, I thought as mentor21:21
*** oferw has joined #zope3-dev21:21
nateawell, mentor's don't get paid ;)21:21
nateaand right now we have more mentors than we have students21:21
srichternatea: I won't have time to work on a particular project21:21
srichternatea: if I think of something good I'll write a proposal21:22
nateanot even for $4,500 and a free trip to Plone Conf? ;)21:22
*** dunny has joined #zope3-dev21:22
srichternatea: mmh, I'll think of something :-)21:22
nateahave a look at some of the ideas already posted:
srichternatea: ok, I was just about to ask that21:23
srichternatea: today I thought about reviving a query language for Zope21:23
nateaand that might give you some ideas of what you'd you'd like to work on21:23
*** volvox has quit IRC21:23
srichterwith hurry.query and some other trickery we could create a pretty efficient query language21:24
nateabtw, i agree that you'd be better suited as a mentor than a student,21:24
nateabut since you still have the student status, it's best if you apply as a student21:24
nateamentors can't do projects - only students can21:24
nateanot sure who would be *your* mentor though ;)21:25
srichter(this would be funny, since I would act as both; I am probably going to mentor Paul Cardune to create a doctest based assignment verifier)21:25
srichterdepending on the task Jim, Guido or someone else21:26
nateafor which oss project?21:26
srichteryeah, python21:27
srichternatea: can you ask the plone developers what they would like me to work on, if I am doing a project?21:27
srichterthere are certainly several suggestions that fall into my area of expertise21:28
nateasure, i'll ask on plone.devel21:28
nateaor you can post the question yourself21:28
srichter(I'll note though that I am not going to touch Zope 2 code; all pure Zope 3 with someone helping me with the Five stuff)21:28
srichteryeah, how long does the proposal have to be?21:29
nateasure, that's what i expected ;)21:29
nateathe proposal you submit to google?21:29
natea7500 character limit21:30
srichternot too bad21:30
srichternatea: btw, what would you think of a Zope query system + language?21:37
nateanot quite sure what that would entail21:37
srichterI think I have a strategy for index-based and ad-hoc object seach21:37
nateaare you thinking something that would be an alternative to portal_catalog?21:37
nateaor just another way of talking to the catalog?21:38
srichterno, more something that uses the catalog to do queries21:38
srichterhave you looked at hurry.query?21:38
srichterit allows you to say things like: Text(('catalog-1', 'fulltext-index'), '*foo*') or Eq(('catalog-2', 'foo-attr'), 'value')21:39
philiKONnatea, pong21:39
nateaStephan, msg sent21:39
srichterok, thanks21:40
nateaphiliKON, are you still a student?21:40
nateasrichter, cc'ed you on it21:40
philiKONsorry, no time for SoC21:40
srichternatea: thanks21:40
nateayou already knew my q ;)21:40
philiKONo'course ;)21:40
srichternatea: did you BCC me? because the E-mail has no other recipient21:43
nateasrichter, it was sent to the nntp groups plone.user and plone.devel21:44
nateawith you cc'ed21:44
philiKONsee y'all21:46
nateabye philiKON21:47
*** senra has quit IRC21:48
*** senra has joined #zope3-dev21:48
*** Egon has joined #zope3-dev22:21
*** pcardune has quit IRC22:31
*** jannur has quit IRC22:33
*** efrerich has quit IRC22:38
*** dunny has quit IRC22:40
*** dunny has joined #zope3-dev23:01
*** whit has quit IRC23:23
*** oferw has quit IRC23:29
*** hazmat has joined #zope3-dev23:30
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o hazmat23:30
*** oferw has joined #zope3-dev23:41
*** senra has left #zope3-dev23:49
*** rodsenra has joined #zope3-dev23:53
*** BjornT_ has joined #zope3-dev23:57

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!