IRC log of #zope3-dev for Thursday, 2006-05-11

efrerichoferw: I'm here00:16
oferwefrerich: I site for testing00:16
oferwand philiKON is helping me now to update the file00:16
efrerichyou said that you translate on your computer00:17
efrerichwhich programm?00:17
oferwyes but I need to put it into the z300:17
oferwI use poedit00:17
oferwand now philiKON told me to install gettext00:17
efrerichwith poedit you get the mo-file00:18
oferwthis file has the information with the changes from last translation?00:18
efrerichso you have not to compile the po-file to mo-file00:19
efrerichyes - the mo-file has your translation00:19
oferwI don't need just to copy the he.po file on the old one?00:20
efrerichand if you work in locales/he directory the the mo-file is there too00:20
oferwno I didn't work under this dir00:21
oferwand can not locate it00:21
efrerichWhere is your 3.3 installation - python site-packages?00:22
oferwthis is windows here00:23
efrerichyes and have you installed Zope 3.3 with the windows installer?00:23
oferwby zopepaul's movie :)00:23
efrerichThen you a python directory with 2.4.1 or 2.4.200:24
efrerichgoto Lib\site-packages\zope\app\locales00:25
efrerichthere is he\LC-MESSAGES00:26
oferwand 2 files there00:26
oferwzope.po and the other one00:26
oferwto just to replace both with the updated files?00:26
oferwthe is not on this computer00:27
oferwso I will copy it from the other one and come back here00:27
oferwyou going to sleep?00:27
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oferwI am back in few mintues00:28
oferwthanks for your help till now00:28
efrerichoferw: I wait for you00:28
oferwfew mintues00:28
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oferwefrerich: cool!00:52
oferwmy translation is working!00:52
efrerichwhat happened?00:52
oferwI just replaces the 2 files and restared zope00:53
oferwand it is working00:53
oferwas you know there are still values to tranlsate but still nice to see hebrew there00:53
efrerichWhat you can do00:54
efrerichgo to the "top" in Zope 300:54
efrerichyou see there the menu item Manage Process00:54
efrerichin 'http://localhost:8080/++etc++process/index.html' you see Translation Domains00:55
efrerichklick and you will see Domain zope00:56
oferwthere is hebrew in the list00:56
oferwlast one00:56
oferwto press on the reload?00:57
efrerichand a reload button00:57
oferwin general the hebrew is working really nice00:57
oferwall in place00:57
efrerichif you have some more translation you can reload and can see what you have done00:58
oferwonly thing need to take care is changing the tamplates00:58
efrerichwhich templates?00:58
oferwall the manu should be on the right of the main information place00:58
oferwI mean all the naviagation00:58
oferwand also all the fields order in the menus from left to right - it should be from right to left00:59
efrerichaha - because you want to read from right to left00:59
oferwthe order00:59
oferwit's not what I want - this is the way hebrew and arabic are01:00
oferwfrom right to left ;-)01:00
efrerichyou should ask srichter01:00
oferwyes I will write email to the list about it01:00
oferwor  to ask him here?01:01
efrerichnow I say good night01:01
oferwthanks again01:01
oferwgood night01:01
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srichteroferw: while we already provide the direction of the language in the locale (request.locale), we are not using it yet. It would take someone to tackle this problem.01:03
oferwsrichter: at least now you aware of the problem...01:03
srichterprobably some high-level APIs want to be developed too and more components should ne directionally aware01:03
srichterno, I knew it all along ;-)01:04
oferwbut in general the hebrew is working really nice01:04
oferwall fits nice into the fields01:04
oferwyou want me to take few screenshots?01:04
srichtergreat, I wanna see a screenshot eventually :-)01:04
oferwok will take few01:05
oferwthere are fields that I have no idea how to translate01:05
oferwGadfly DA01:05
srichterGadfly is a name, so no translation necessary01:06
srichterDA is a shortcut for Database Adapter01:06
oferwI will do list of them01:06
srichteryep, ggod idea01:06
srichteryep, good idea01:06
oferwin general I need study what is going around here01:07
srichterthe more you get into Zope 3, the more the phrases will make sense, naturally01:07
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oferwfirst step was to install and update a bit the hebrew'01:08
oferwwhere are you located?01:08
srichterBoston, MA01:09
yotaoferw: héhé welcome to Zope.3 world. Not easy to understand all concepts ;)01:10
oferwyota: hi :)01:10
oferwthanks for the welcome01:10
oferwyota: how long r u in this world?01:11
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yotaoferw: same problem here for my first translation (french)01:11
oferwI need to understand what people around here can do with z301:12
yotaoferw: I read mls since 2 years but I have no time in my job to work with zope3 yet01:13
oferwwhere you are from?01:14
oferwsrichter: I did 3 screenshots and uploading them now01:14
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yotaoferw: Paris, France01:17
oferwyota: nice :)01:18
srichtervery nice indeed01:19
srichteris this on linux or windows01:19
oferwhere windows01:19
oferwi had problems to install it on the linux01:20
oferwI will try to see why during the weekend01:20
yotawhat"s the problem on linux ?01:20
oferwI had problems with python or something01:20
yotafor me, it's like zope201:20
oferwbut really want to see the hebrew working01:20
yotaconfigure;make;make install01:20
oferwto just installed it on the windoes01:21
yotawith standard python package (deb or ubuntu)01:21
yotanever had a problem with01:21
oferwsrichter: so the hebrew is nice right?01:21
srichteryep :-)01:21
srichterI wish we could do anothe rI18n sprint to address the direction problems01:22
oferwz3 is still new around right?01:22
oferwbecause if copmanies here will know about it mabye they will invest time in develop01:22
srichterit is pretty new01:23
srichterbut I think it is special01:23
oferwwhat you mean01:23
rocky|new-babyoferw: the plone community is starting to heavily involve itself in z3 activities as well as we're trying to adopt z3 coding techniques via the Five product01:24
srichteroferw: well, it is new, but it is not new at the same time01:25
oferwrocky|new-baby: that's why I am here as well beacuse I read so many places around z3 z3 ...01:25
srichterit is built on a lot of experience and has a stability that is fairly unique01:26
srichterI am not aware of any other OS project that emphazises on testing that much01:26
oferwsrichter: the problem here with this kind of system like plone that people need and want 100% working hebrew and right to left01:27
srichter(of course, we infect the other Zope sub-communities already)01:27
oferwif not they can not use and don't want to01:27
srichterit is not a big problem to get working01:27
srichterit just needs some sponsoring by someone01:27
oferwsrichter: nothing is big problem only time and money01:27
srichterwe have all the data we need01:28
oferwwhat is the target of z3 at all?01:28
oferwto be what kind of system?01:29
srichterfully right-to-left compatible01:29
srichterthe target are Web applications01:30
srichterI'll write a little thing about the app I am developing right now01:30
srichterit is a good example01:30
oferwso people moving from z2 to z3?01:34
srichtersome people are01:35
srichtermore people use Z3 technology in Z2 using Five01:35
oferwso I need also to translate five ?01:36
rocky|new-babyoferw: there shouldn't be anything in five that needs to be translated01:37
oferwwhen is the next z3 event?01:38
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srichterthere is none scheduled as far as I know01:39
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oferwlets see when there will be first z3 site here01:42
srichterhe he01:43
oferwsorry for the qustions but I want to understand more - it is for bigger and busy web applications?01:43
projekt01oferw, there is a nicer skin for a screenshot, try: http://localhost:8080/++skin++Boston01:44
srichteryou will not have much fun (yet) using Z3 for your homepage01:44
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oferwprojekt01: page not working01:44
oferwsrichter: for now I have one page in my homepage01:45
projekt01oferw, do you use a trunk? and port: 808001:45
oferwsrichter: but people here contact me from time to time about plone sites01:46
srichterso you will be into Zope 3 eventually01:47
oferwthere are few z2 sites here01:47
oferwthis is one of them01:48
oferwshe is very very famous fashion desinger here01:48
oferwbut there are very very small number of zope sites01:49
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oferwsrichter: but to have right to left site with z3 I don't need to have all the transaltion of the contorl right?01:52
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srichteroferw: no02:28
oferwI have here one company that have busy website and want to use plone02:28
oferwnow they using php02:28
oferwbut I can not tell them to use z3 if I don't know anything about it02:29
srichterthat would be far too risky02:31
srichterafter the requirements are mapped out, you could have a Zope 3 expert see whether the project fits Zope 302:33
srichterbecause the requirements for Plone sites do not completely overlap with Zope 302:33
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srichterZope 3 really accelarates when doing Web *applications* in comparison to Web *sites*02:35
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oferwsrichter: you consider commuinty website as website or web application?02:45
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volvoxplease. oh, please... can anybody point me to a working example of subwidgets/objectwidgets like Poll, Person or the like, in 3.2? I cannot make them work to save my life13:44
volvoxlast version I tried gives me13:44
volvoxComponentLookupError: ((<zope.schema._field.Object object at 0xb4dfca4c>, <zope.publisher.browser.BrowserRequest instance URL=http://localhost:8080/++skin++Debug/@@+/action.html>), <InterfaceClass>, u'')13:44
volvoxDisplay traceback as text13:44
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rockysrichter: ugh, tom dossis found an issue (on the mailing list) regarding migrating a z3.2 zodb to z3.3b1 because of dublincore being renamed from to zope.dublincore13:53
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Pupeno_In Zope 3.2 unlike Zope 3.0 every folder is a Site by default, right ?13:53
rockyi thought every folder was an IPossibleSite13:54
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Pupeno_I ask because I didn't see any Make a Site action item, only a Manage Site action item.13:55
rockyhm... perhaps this changed with j1m's update to the local component registration stuff13:55
volvox"Make a site" is there13:57
volvoxbetween "Grant" and "Errors", in 3.213:57
Pupeno_yes, well, I should have made it a site by accident. Thanks.13:59
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nourihas moved in zope 3.3?14:30
nouribecause i'm trying out mexiKON's wcsite and it fails with 3.3, while it doesn't give any deprecation warnings (it just works) with 2.214:31
Pupeno_ tells me to add a "Utility Service" to a site but I don't see that type of object, was the name changed or something ?14:33
Pupeno_"Menu Service" is not there either and adding a TextLine object to the Mutable Schema (called title) results in a system error.14:36
Pupeno_What document(s) are there for learning how to use Zope 3.2 ?14:41
nourimexiKON: any ideas?14:42
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srichterPupeno: the Zope3Book was written for Zope 3.0; services are gone14:46
srichtermexiKON: Did you not write a generation script when moving all those modules?14:46
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Pupenosrichter: how can I go on then ? Up to here it was ok, but now nothing works.14:47
srichterPupeno: I am sorry to say, but I have no updated version of the book14:47
Pupenoand what about Mutable Schema not working (adding fields) ?14:48
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srichterPupeno: they did not even work for Zope 3.014:49
srichterPupeno: Mutable schemas are purposfully not distributed14:50
srichterPupeno: it would need someone with some interface package insight to fix the problem14:50
Pupenosrichter: should I just skip that chapter of the book ?14:50
Pupenosrichter: Mutable Scheme are available on Zope
srichterthat's what I would do :-)14:51
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Pupenosrichter: thanks.14:51
srichterPupeno: really????? Eeeek!!!14:51
srichterPupeno: could you file a bug report with respect to the mutable schema package?14:51
Pupenosrichter: ok.14:52
srichterPupeno: also note that with Zope 3.3 it will be even harder to follow the Zope 3 book, because a lot of things changed14:52
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nourisrichter: any idea if moved in z3.3b1 ?14:52
srichterI just do not have the time to update it14:52
srichternouri: it is in zope.size14:53
Pupenosrichter: I understand.14:53
srichternouri: please file a bug report stating that no deprecation warning appears14:53
nourisrichter: it seems like it didn't deprecation-warn me in 3.214:53
nouriok, thanks, that's what i wanted to know14:53
Pupenosrichter: can that book or a fork of it be communitized, so we can change it (at least, to add warnings of differences and problems, I would do it as I read it).14:54
srichterI can give people access to the latex14:55
srichterI was pretty strict till now to keep the master documents in latex14:55
srichterbut maybe that barrier is too high14:56
srichterI'll think about it14:56
* srichter hates when Jim is right all the time :-)14:56
nourisrichter: tests should show deprecationwarnings as well, i suppose?14:58
srichternouri: no, tests (at least the ones in the release) *must* all be fixed not to generate deprecation warnings15:00
srichternouri: but your tests should15:00
nouriok that's good15:00
guruz_is there a way to tell a BTreeContainer container to be sorted case-insensitively?15:06
rockyi think by the nature of how a btree works the ids are sorted internally aren't they?15:09
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srichterrocky: yep15:10
srichterguruz_: you can implement your own container doing this of course15:11
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guruz_so if i have a folder i could find out how zope calls it and re-sort there when displaying?15:13
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PupenoWhere is DocTestSuite on Zope 3.2.1 ? I've tried using the searcher on the ++apidoc++ application but it returned nothing (I am not even sure if it tried searching).15:29
srichterPupeno: DocTestSuite is part of a standard library module15:30
Pupenooh, ok. It seems that in Zope 3.0 it wasn't.15:33
srichterno it was not there, because we made some fixes that would not appear in Python until the next major release15:34
mgedminPupeno: zope.testing.doctest15:34
mgedminPupeno: it differs from the stdlib doctest module a bit15:34
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mgedminit has a couple of workarounds for a couple of issues (does not break test coverage profiling, for example)15:34
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* mgedmin hopes those doctest issues will be fixed in python 2.515:35
faassenhm, if you use testbrowser, is there any good way to debug 500 errors?15:36
faassenI get a 500 error if I load the same page that does work through the UI when I start Zope.15:36
faassenI can verify that the zcml is hooked up.15:36
Pupenomgedmin: it is not on http://localhost:8080/++apidoc++/Code/zope/testing/index.html and when I try from zope.testing.doctest import DocTestSuite I get an error.15:36
mgedminthat's interesting15:37
mgedminmg@pitonas:~/src/Zope3.2 $ PYTHONPATH=src python15:37
mgedmin>>> from zope.testing.doctest import DocTestSuite15:37
mgedminworks for me in a 3.2 svn checkout15:37
PupenoI can't find either.15:38
mgedminthe release tarball might be different15:38
PupenoI've found so many things missing in the tarball.15:38
faassenPupeno: can you report them to the list, if you think they should really be there?15:38
faassenPupeno: we've had traditional problems of things missing. or better yet, make a bug entry.15:39
Pupenofaassen: I am not sure of anything.15:39 are missing? What?15:39
faassennobody has an idea how to debug 500 errors in testbrowser test that don't appear when I use the browser UI? :)15:39
Pupenosrichter: I don't see it on http://localhost:8080/++apidoc++/Code/zope/app/container/index.html15:40
srichterdamn, the release is in a really sorry shape15:40
srichteroh that's ok15:40
mgedminfaassen: browser.handleErrors = False?15:40
srichterI think I specifically ignore all tests and ftests dmodules15:40
srichtermgedmin: faassen: yep, that's what I was about to suggest15:41
faassenmgedmin: okay, I shall try that. I knew there was something. :)15:41
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srichterI am so glad that I added this feature; without it debugging testbrowser tests would be impossible15:41
faassenthanks. :)15:42
srichterfaassen: if you get that many errors in a test, then it is probably an authentication problem15:44
faassensrichter: it's an access control issue15:45
faassensrichter: or worse, somehow an attribute is just missing.15:45
faassensrichter: it got hidden by an access control issue.15:45
srichteroh, I see15:45
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PupenoI am trying to runt tests as explained on and I get these errors:   any ideas ?16:10
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faassenPupeno: well, looks like a python syntax error16:13
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faassendon't know what those 'from:' errors could mean.16:13
faassenit looks rather confusing.16:13
BjornTPupeno: the file is being run as a shell script. try 'python ./tests/' instead.16:25
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mexiKONsrichter, see my response to zope-users re: moved packages17:07
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mgedminPupeno: probably has no #!/usr/bin/env python line at the top17:18
mgedminso it got interpeted as a shell script17:18
mgedminit gets very funny when you have imagemagick installed and 'import' starts grabbing your mouse cursor and taking screenshots of the windows you click on17:18
srichtermexiKON: it really needs to be fixed though17:19
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srichterZDC does store things peristently; I sent a response17:20
mexiKONsrichter, just replied to your response17:20
mexiKONno, ZDC doesn't store things persistently17:20
mexiKONit uses annotations17:20
mexiKONwhich in turn uses OOBTrees17:20
mexiKONi did not move a single persistent class17:20
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mexiKONfor that very same reason that we do not yet have sufficient evolvement facilities.17:21
MJHey Philipp17:22
MJWhere abouts in Mexico are ya? :)17:22
mexiKONhi MJ17:22
srichteryes it does; see my complete response (the first mail went out by accident)17:22
mexiKONsrichter, seems you're right17:22
mexiKONMJ, still in good ole europe17:22
mexiKONMJ,  just my alternate nick17:22
srichterI think fixing FileStorage would be sufficient for now17:23
MJI gave your name to some headhunter looking for German freelance Zope devs; not sure if it is anything, but I couldn't help him directly17:23
srichterdid Jim write a generations script for his stuff?17:23
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MJBut if you were in Mexico, you'd be of little help too ;)17:24
mexiKONsrichter, i know people who use DirStorage...17:24
MJsrichter: Looks I get to 'mentor' you on your Google SoC proposal17:24
mexiKONMJ, cool, thanks17:24
srichterMJ: cool, so you approved it?17:24
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srichterj1m: did you write generation scripts for your code?17:25
MJsrichter: You are the 3rd highest scoring proposal right now17:25
srichterhuh, cool :-)17:25
j1msrichter, yes17:25
MJsrichter: Google get's to approve things next week I believe17:25
philiKON3rd highest score among what? all proposals?17:26
MJI am signed up as the potential mentor, which means that Limi will give it to me.17:26
srichterj1m: ok, cool17:26
srichterj1m: I thought remembering seeing that17:26
srichterphiliKON: so we really need to only take care of the ZDC annotation thing17:27
srichterphiliKON: the iterator code should make this fairly trivial17:27
Pupenomgedmin: that is what happened here.17:27
philiKONi'm still worried about DirStorage17:27
philiKONbtw, what about ZEO?17:27
MJphiliKON: 3rd highest on the Plone proposals17:28
mgedminPupeno: it is usually best to use the test runner and specify a module/package filter17:28
philiKONMJ, cool. how many does the PF get to turn in?17:28
mgedmininstead of running individual test modules directly17:28
MJphiliKON: There are not that many (the bogus ones have been moved to the dumped screen)17:28
srichterif you want to provide a solution for all storages, you must walk the tree manually17:28
srichterphiliKON: there are some helper facilities for that17:28
MJphiliKON: Right now we indicated we can handle about 1017:28
* philiKON wishes we had dump/reload17:28
MJphiliKON: But the proposal deadline is already past ;)17:29
philiKONsrichter, walkling the tree i might never get to all instances of this annotation thingy17:29
srichterphiliKON: it is just a little bit more involved and does not guarantee that you find all objects, but I think that would be okay as we accepted this risk before17:29
philiKONMJ, i know, i know.17:29
philiKONsrichter, any pointers to the tree walker facilities?17:29
srichteryeah, the previous generations use it17:30
srichterphiliKON: see*.py17:31
* philiKON takes a look17:31
Pupenomgedmin: it was not working, that's why I was trying to run it manually, to try to find out what the problem was.17:31
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philiKONsrichter, yeah, those are a bit too trivial. i'll have to adapt to IZopeDublinCore etc.17:32
srichterphiliKON: but you can check for IAttributeAnnotatable first17:33
srichterthe iterator is very nice in that respect :-)17:33
philiKONgood point17:33
srichterwe cannot cover everything, but at least we can make a decent attempt byt covering the majority of people17:34
* srichter wishes j1m's next pet project would have been the iterator stuff -> srichter sees an opportunity for a sprint17:35
philiKONsrichter, btw, ZDCAnnotatableAdapter is pretty stupid17:37
philiKONit should really mix in persistent17:37
philiKONbut it doesn't17:37
philiKONits base class even says that it should ;)17:37
philiKONand it provides the necessary hooks17:37
srichtergeez, I have never looked at that code17:37
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philiKONsrichter, anyways, will provide the evolvement script. later today. gotta go now.17:44
srichterok, thanls17:44
srichterok, thanks17:44
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PupenoI am trying to run the tests according to but I get no tests run:  any ideas ?17:58
faassenPupeno: hm, try:18:00
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faassenor something like taht.18:01
faassenI'm not familiar with how you set up your python path and such.18:01
faassenunfortunately that book content is out of date..18:01
Pupeno$ echo $PYTHONPATH18:02
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faassenwell, I don't know where messageboard is.18:03
Pupenooh, sorry, it is on /home/pupeno/zope/dev/lib/python/messageboard18:04
faassenthen you shouldn't have to use --test-path18:05
faassenand 'dev' is a zope 3 instance?18:05
Pupenofaassen: yes.18:05
mgedminPupeno: the bin/ directory in a zope instance has a 'test' script that knows to add that instance's lib/python into the pythonpath18:06
Pupenofaassen: but with --test-path I've got some errors (regarding importing something, hold on).18:06
mgedmintry /home/pupeno/zope/dev/test -pv -s messageboard18:06
faassenPupeno: try cd-ing into the Zope 3 instance's root and running the testrunner.18:06
Pupenomgedmin: thanks.18:06
mgedminerr, ...zope/dev/bin/test ...18:06
faassenoh, right, you need to get it from the bin/ directory18:07
faassendon't know whethre your starting directory matters. :)18:07
faassenbut normally the test runner is run from the top of the instance, not from the package directory.18:07
mgedminI *think* the current directory doesn't matter18:08
efrerichyota: I see your translation are nearly complete18:08
mgedminI could be wrong18:08
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Pupenonow running the tests gives me an error importing some interfaces, it says the module does not exist; but I can import it by hand without problem:
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Pupenorunning zope gaves me the same error about no module named interfaces.18:47
srichterPupeno: Zope3/src or Zope3/lib/python must be in your Python path18:48
srichterthe test runner will do this automatically for you18:49
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Pupenosrichter: they are in my path, the test runner as well as zope, both fail.19:20
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srichteris there a way to change directory in a Makefile?20:58
benjisrichter, "cd"?21:01
srichterthat did not seem to have an effect21:01
benjiI think make changes back to your original directory when finishing, but it should have an effect while the makefile is "running"21:02
srichterah, it resets the directory after each command21:03
srichterso you have to chain them21:03
srichtercd DIR; command21:03
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benjithat sounds vaugly familiar :)21:04
srichtermmh, I have a problem with i18nextract not working because it pics up my global file isntead of the test standard library21:04
benjiyou might manipulate the PYTHONPATH so the right files are found (if i18nextract uses the python path)21:05
srichterI do that already21:06
srichterbut the CWD is always added additionally21:06
benjiyou could hack to remove the CWD21:07
srichterok, now I got over it; I just had to go into a dir without test.py21:07
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tareki have a small problem on event suscribing,21:31
tarekif i want to use an handler, i can't use the permission directive21:31
tarekbecause the provides is mandatory for permission then21:31
tarek(it checks security iver the provided interface iirc)21:32
tarekso is there a way to secure the handler ?21:32
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tarekwhat I tried to write is:21:37
tarek...     <subscriber21:37
tarek...          handler="my_handler"21:37
tarek...          for="IMyEvent"21:37
tarek...          permission="InYourDreams"21:37
tarek...       />21:37
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srichtertarek: is the handler a function?21:45
tareksrichter, yes, a callable21:45
srichterwell, a callable would be fine21:45
srichtersince you could make a security declaration on the callable's __call__ method21:45
srichter<class class="callable"?21:46
srichter<class class="callable">21:46
srichter  <require permission="myperm" attributes="__call__" />21:46
tareka ok i c21:46
srichterI dunno how this can be done for functions21:46
tareka __call__ is fine I guess, i'll just wrap the function21:47
tareksrichter, thx21:47
srichterI guess by default there is no security declaration on the subscriber, since it is assumed that all security is provided by the event/objwct21:47
tarekok, sounds right, there's one when you don't use the handler way, but the adapter21:48
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PupenoAny ideas why zope and test (the script to test) might claim that a module, messageboard.interfaces, is not there when it is (I can run Python and import it) ?22:57
whityou have your SOFTWARE_HOME envvar set wrong?22:59
PupenoI haven't set that variable by myself anywhere; but note that other modules inside messageboard are being loaded without problem.23:00
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PupenoHere's the error:
PupenoI bet it is something stupid which I am overseeing.23:07
PupenoIt works from plain Python:
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