IRC log of #zope3-dev for Friday, 2006-05-12

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d2mhi, we have currently someone spamming the Zope.org collectors (ZOC and CMF) -- anyone with a link to zope.org sysadms to block the spammers IP address ?10:03
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d2mif you experience problems with the zope.org collector: i'm just deleting the spam entries (makes the collector rather unresponsive)10:30
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guruz_hm, i am getting zope.app.twisted.server.SSLNotSupported. is there any documentation about what has to be exactly installed for ssl support?16:05
* J1m hates implicitly enabled features based on environment sniffing. A lot.16:06
guruz_:-|16:07
srichterJ1m: thanks for the response16:08
srichterJ1m: one way of optimizing the ZCML startup would not require pickable actions16:08
srichterJ1m: I basically would just like to pickle the directive handlers and their arguments16:09
J1mah, good point.16:09
srichterJ1m: I think this could work and still provide a lot of the benefits, since all the schema validation is circumvented16:09
J1mand conversion16:09
srichterright16:09
srichterif this gives us a significant speedup, then this work will be independently useful to other approaches16:10
srichter(I am really excited about trying this; my proposal was yesterday the third highest ranked, so there is a good chance I get it)16:11
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srichterJ1m: is there already an UI for local sites where you can say: Use those IComponents utilities as my bases?16:20
J1mno16:20
srichterJ1m: that was the UI I was referring16:20
srichterJ1m: but I agree it should not be too tricky now16:21
J1mPerhaps you should be more specific. :)16:21
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srichterJ1m: it was not meant to be a proposal :-) I'll write a real proposal for all this.16:22
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efrerichsrichter: ayt?16:31
srichteryep16:32
efrerichI have some problems with the extraction16:32
srichterok, shoot16:32
efrerich1) You switches to ZODB 3.716:32
srichteryes16:33
efrerichThe pyd-files from tim_one are not uptodate16:33
efrerichbut I assume that is not an issue16:33
efrerich2) In the first try the directive with 'role' was unknown16:34
srichtersomeone has to sign up doing Windows pyd files16:34
srichteragroszer can do releases, so maybe he can also do the pyd files?16:35
* agroszer goes to check16:35
efrerichThe doc says if there is no -s argument standard Zope 3 site.zcml is used16:35
efrerichare you sure?16:35
srichterefrerich: yes16:35
srichterpositive16:35
srichterif no -s is specified, we have the original behavior16:36
srichterbtw, I ran the extraction on the trunk to check that it works16:36
agroszerbtw: srichter, there should be a version.txt in zope.app16:36
srichteragroszer: the version.txt file is added only to the tag16:36
efrerichThen I tried with -s argument; I have got     fp = open(filename)16:37
efrerichIOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'C:\\Zope3\\Vers3_3'16:37
agroszerstrange... I thoght I did an svn up16:37
srichterefrerich: that seems like an OS issue ;-)16:37
efrerichmaybe16:38
srichterefrerich: did you use absolute paths?16:38
efrerichyes16:38
efrerichI have another try16:38
efrerichthx16:38
agroszersrichter: did an svn up, version.txt is still missing...???16:39
srichterbtw, if it reports 'site.zcml location: None, then it means that the default site.zcml is used16:40
srichteragroszer: are you looking at the 3.3.0b1 tag or the 3.3. branch?16:40
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agroszerb1, I hope16:40
agroszerwait16:40
agroszererrr16:40
srichterit's there:16:41
srichterhttp://svn.zope.org/Zope3/tags/Zope-3.3.0b1/src/zope/app/16:41
efrerichsrichter: yes - there was site.zcml location: None16:41
agroszerthanx, missed that16:41
srichterefrerich: so that's good, because it uses the old behavior, which is correct in this case16:42
srichterefrerich: I am running i18nextract on the branch now16:42
agroszersrichter: pyd's are available as a 'side effect' of the release16:45
srichter[srichter@einstein Zope3-3.3]$ export PYTHONPATH=/opt/zope/Zope3/Zope3-3.3/src/16:45
srichter[srichter@einstein Zope3-3.3]$ ./utilities/i18nextract.py -d zope -p src/zope -o app/locales16:45
srichterbase path: '/opt/zope/Zope3/Zope3-3.3/'16:45
srichtersearch path: /opt/zope/Zope3/Zope3-3.3/src/zope16:45
srichter'site.zcml' location: None16:45
srichterexclude dirs: []16:45
srichterdomain: 'zope'16:45
srichterinclude default domain: True16:45
srichteroutput file: '/opt/zope/Zope3/Zope3-3.3/src/zope/app/locales/zope.pot'16:45
srichterPython only: False16:45
agroszersrichter: so ziping them should not be an issue16:45
srichteragroszer: right, but Tim had always this great ZIP file that you could simply install to get the trunk working in Windows without a compiler16:46
srichteragroszer: cool16:46
agroszeryeah, where to put the result?16:47
srichteronline would be best16:48
srichteryou could create a "trunk" software release and put it there16:48
srichterbecause we have management access there, we can publish it ourselves16:48
agroszerah, you mean to www.zope.org/Products/Zope3?16:51
srichteryeah16:51
agroszerI see16:51
agroszerI think I messed up the 3.3.0b116:54
agroszerrelease16:54
agroszerit was a different tag in the svn16:55
srichterthat's ok16:56
srichteryou are doing a huge favor to the community and it was your first time16:56
agroszeryep, I think there was not a huge difference between the two tags16:56
srichterthat's what betas are for16:56
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srichterthe beta release was not very clean either. there are a bunch of issues16:57
efrerichsrichter: may you have a look at "pastebin"; I put there the log with the unknown directive16:58
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srichterefrerich: as you can see it uses the right site.zcml file16:59
efrerichyes - I see know17:00
srichtercan you show me the contents of site.zcml?17:00
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oferwsrichter: hi :)17:02
oferwefrerich: hi :)17:02
efrerichoferw: hi17:03
efrerichsrichter: is in pastebin17:03
srichtermmh, looks good17:04
efrerichleaving - coffee taking17:06
srichterefrerich: can you make sure that securitypolicy-meta.zcml is in zopeskel/etc/package-includes?17:06
srichterefrerich: btw, are you using the checkout or the release?17:06
efrerichI look it up - after the coffee17:06
efrerichthx17:06
srichteroh man, Micha muss anfangen ausserhalb der Box zu denken17:09
srichteroops, wrong channel17:10
srichtersorry for the german17:10
benjithat's OK, you were just thinking outside the box :)17:10
srichterbenji: oh, your German sufficed to translate :-)17:12
benjijust barely :)17:12
philiKONsrichter, it's not that hard when you use english idioms in german yourself :)17:20
srichterphiliKON: I do this all the time! :-)17:21
philiKONright17:21
philiKONno surprise there, you've been living there way too much time not to do it. i even do it :)17:21
benjiI'm surprised anyone can be converstational in English as a second language, all the idioms would kill me17:23
* benji wonders what the most idiomatic natural language is17:23
J1mFultish17:24
benjiand hence it's inscrutability to outsiders17:24
srichterLOL17:25
philiKONFultish -- and bob's your uncle!17:25
philiKONbenji, the idioms is what people usually learn last therefore.17:26
efrerichsrichter: I think that is the solution - I made a fresh checkout and didn't fill zopeskel17:26
J1mhttp://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-bob1.htm17:26
philiKONinteresting17:28
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philiKONJ1m, btw, i evolved one of my old Zope3.1 zodbs to zope 3.3 (for testing purposes) and i still get:17:28
philiKON  /Users/philipp/dev/Zope3/src/ZODB/broken.py:187: DeprecationWarning: RegistrationManager is deprecated. The old registration APIs, are deprecated and will go away in Zope 3.517:28
J1mHm.  The evolution script doesn't bother removing registration managers.17:29
philiKONah, ok17:30
J1mMaybe it should.  Please submit a collector issue.17:30
philiKONok17:30
faassenbenji: idioms apear in any natural language. I don't know whether English has more of them than usual. :)17:31
* philiKON wonders about idioms in esperanto17:32
faassenwass ist auf?17:32
faassenwie gehst? oh, das geht auch auf Deutsch!17:32
faassenhande hoch! oh nein, die bulle!17:33
regebroHimmel meine schuhe!17:33
faassenMein gott, es ist voller sterne.17:33
faassen(2010 quote)17:33
faassenSchubumkerung! (star trek quote)17:33
philiKONlol17:33
* srichter wonders where all those people with German idioms are suddenly coming from ;-)17:33
* benji wonders why the sky needs shoes17:34
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faassenich weis nicht, ich habe ja immer schlechtes Deutsch gesprochen.17:34
philiKONbenji, Himmel! is like Heavens!17:34
philiKONHeavens! My shoes17:34
benjithanks, that makes it soooo much clearer17:35
faassenI said 'my god, it's full of stars'17:35
faassenthe monolith17:35
benjiI got that one, faassen :)17:35
faassenand schubumkerung is..reverse thrust.17:35
faassenI somehow my first viewing of 2010 was in a german dubbing.17:35
faassenI grew up being exposed to quite a few movies in german dubbing.17:35
philiKONmodern german dubbing sucks17:37
philiKONdubbing in the 50s and 60s was cool17:37
philiKONthey put a lot more thought into it17:37
faassenwell, this was 80s dubbing.17:37
philiKONjazzed up the dialogues17:37
philiKONtoday's dubbing is stupid17:37
faassenDie bulle! werfen sie das kanone weg!17:37
philiKON"Er war ein guter Cop. Er hat einen guten Job gemacht"17:37
philiKONthis is denglish17:38
faassenlong leb denglish!17:38
philiKONgenau17:38
faassenyou don't say cop. you say Er war ein guter Bulle17:38
faasseneverybody knows cop is translated as bulle.17:38
benjiphiliKON, even /I/ know that's not good German :)17:38
philiKONno, they say cop17:38
faassenthey *used* to say bulle up until at least die 80s, I think. :)17:38
philiKONbenji, yeah, but people don't mind or don't notice it anymore. but they still don't want to see the stuff in english as if they were allergic to it17:38
benjisounds too much like something I'd say17:38
philiKONwe should do it like the netherlands or scandinavia. just not dub anything, neither in movies nor on TV17:39
philiKONprovide optional subtitles for old people.17:39
faassenwe dub children's show. :)17:39
faassenwe have subtitles for everyone.17:39
philiKONright, i know17:39
philiKONi wouldn't even dub children's shows17:39
philiKONchildren learn incredibly fast17:40
philiKONit's the best age to pick up a language17:40
philiKONi'd say especially don't dub the children's shows17:40
faassenand soon all young german children will be running around yelling POWERZORD!17:40
philiKONthey already do that17:40
faassen:)17:40
philiKONor pokemon17:40
philiKONor whatever17:40
philiKONit's all globalized anyways17:40
faassenactually we should redub everything in zope3-ese.17:40
philiKONbut without dubbing, they'd be pronouncing it correctly perhaps ;)17:40
faassenso you'd have: Captain, the adapter doesn't work right with the utility!17:41
faassenReverse the polarity of the component architecture!17:41
benjilol!17:41
faassenit wouldn't change the contents of many of those technobabble sessions a lot.17:41
philiKONlol, yeah17:41
faassenthere is no correct pronounciation of 'zord', I think. :)17:41
faassenit's badly pronounced out of the box.17:41
philiKONhehe. i'm not talking about zord or whatever17:42
philiKONgerman zope consultants have a common problem, for example17:42
philiKONor at least they used to17:42
philiKONmany over here pronounce it "sohp" or "tsohp"17:42
philiKONof course, the other party would always think they meant soap or something else17:42
faassenmit tsoph machen wir 's. und Plohn auch17:42
philiKONlol. genau17:42
philiKONJ1m, btw, http://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope3-dev/62817:44
J1msaw it17:44
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efrerichsrichter: FYI: 45 messages have to be translated or checked18:03
srichterefrerich: right, those are the ones from the default domain, right?18:05
faassenwhat's the idea aobut zope.formlib.namedtemplate?18:08
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faassenI mean, I just want to render the submit buttons generated by formlib differently.18:08
faassenhave a different css class.18:09
faassenand then it turns out the Action renders itself using namedtemplate.18:09
faassenand you can register your own 'render' namedtemplate implementation too.18:09
faassenbut then you just get a ZCML conflict.18:09
philiKONoverrides?18:09
faassenso what the point of having these things use namedtemplate? and why register them as adapters? no way to use Zope's skinning mechanisms.18:09
faassenphiliKON: ugh18:10
philiKONor, just make them more specific adapters18:10
faassenphiliKON: I think using overrides is rather brittle.18:10
philiKONnamed templates just adapt the view (IOW, the form object)18:10
faassenphiliKON: that involves implementing my own formlib action decorator that produces more specific IAction.. I think. :)18:10
faassenphiliKON: they do?18:10
philiKONno, they don't adapt the action18:10
philiKONthey adapt the view18:11
philiKONusually you can do:18:11
philiKONfoo_template = NamedTemplateImplementation(ViewPageTemplateFile(...), MyViewClass)18:11
faassen@namedtemplate.implementation(IAction), it says.18:11
faassenI figured IAction is the thing that's being adapted.18:11
philiKONugh18:11
faassenbut perhaps I am wrong.18:11
philiKONi think you're right in this case18:12
philiKONwhere are you anyways?18:12
faassenwhat do you mean?18:12
faassenzope.formlib.form18:12
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faassenphysically I'm in Rotterdam. :)18:13
philiKONah, i see it now18:13
philiKONline 59118:13
philiKON@namedtemplate.implementation(interfaces.IAction)18:13
philiKONdef render_submit_button(self):18:13
philiKONright?18:13
faassenyes.18:13
J1mOverrides are not brittle.18:13
faassenI mean, what one typically would want if one wants to override this is, is override the way buttons are drawn on a particular form.18:14
J1mnamed templates allow you to replace zpt without refedining an entire view.18:14
faassenJ1m: don't I override everything for the whole application? suddenly I use a different button drawing story for the whole of Zope?18:14
philiKONfaassen, right. in this case, you could put a marker on your action (IMyAction) and register the renderer for that...18:14
J1mnamed templaces are defined for a view18:14
philiKONJ1m, in this case, also for actions18:15
J1mso you can override a template for an individual view class.18:15
philiKONso that actions become submit buttons in forms18:15
J1mI guess. I don't remember the details.18:15
faassenI'm just trying to find a way to make the submit button have a different css class. :)18:16
philiKONJ1m, srichter, i'm calling _p_activate() and setting _p_changed = True on moved persistent objects, yet for some reason they don't seem to get repickled.18:18
philiKONany hints?18:18
srichterno, those two should do it; I remember MArius and I trying for hours18:19
J1mno18:19
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philiKONbecause i'm doing that and i can verify that my evolvement code is actually touching those objects. but after eevolvement, i still get deprecation warnings for the zope.app imports18:20
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philiKONand thru debugging i've found that the pickles are actually those of objects i should have touched earlier18:20
srichterphiliKON: are you sure you found all occurences18:21
philiKONit's not even about that18:21
srichterone occurence is enough to cause the deprecation warnig18:21
philiKONyes, yes18:21
philiKONread again what i wrote18:21
philiKONi traced my evolvement script18:21
philiKONlet's say it definitely touched object X18:22
philiKONlater i get a deprecation warning18:22
philiKONi debugged it18:22
philiKONfollowed it into the innards of the zodb serializer18:22
philiKONand found out it belonged to object X18:22
philiKONso, it's not even about getting all objects right now18:22
srichterverifued by oid?18:22
philiKONit's about getting those i find in the first place18:22
philiKONwell, no18:22
philiKONdoes it make any difference?18:23
srichterwell, how do you know you are still talking about the same object?18:24
philiKONwell, i looked at its contents18:24
philiKONand i knew exactly which object it was... but if that doesn't satisfy you, i can compare the oids18:24
srichterok, if you are sure it does not exist anywhere else18:24
srichterI would do that, just to make sure18:24
philiKONhow do i get the oid? _p_oid?18:25
srichteryeah, I think so18:25
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philiKONsrichter, just verified the oids are the same18:35
srichtermmh, darn18:36
srichterand the serializer is not picking them up, eh?18:36
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mexiKONsrichter, just verified the oids are the same18:38
mexiKON perhaps the stuff doesn't get repickled in this case? only when storage.record_iternext() is used? seems unlikely, but i'm not an expert...18:39
mexiKONthis case being an evolvement script using findObjectsProviding18:39
srichterI am not an expert either18:40
srichterthis is Jim's area :-)18:40
mexiKONJ1m said earlier he had no other hints either...18:41
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J1mmexiKON, I'm sure I could figure it out if I got into it.18:55
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J1mBut it would take some time.18:55
J1mand I have lots of other things cooking atm.18:55
J1mIf you manually load up one of the objects, to the operations and commit the transaction, what happens?18:56
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mexiKONJ1m, lemme try. i guess i can do this via bin/zopectl debug18:58
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mexiKONJ1m, ok, this is interesting19:08
mexiKONso i know the oids of those objects that weren't migrated properly. there are a lot of them, it might be that none was migrated.19:09
mexiKONanyways19:09
mexiKONi'm in bin/zopectl debug19:09
mexiKON>>> conn = root._p_jar19:09
mexiKON>>> conn.get('\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00"')19:09
mexiKON<zope.dublincore.annotatableadapter.ZDCAnnotationData object at 0x4e4f0>19:09
mexiKONso, obviously, this loads the object but it doesn't seem to impor tzope.app.dublincore19:10
mexiKONso, it does look like the object has been migrated successfully19:10
mexiKONhowever19:10
mexiKONnow, i get at the same object in a differen way:19:10
mexiKON>>> root.__annotations__['zope.app.dublincore.ZopeDublinCore']19:10
mexiKON /Users/philipp/dev/Zope3/src/ZODB/broken.py:183: DeprecationWarning: zope.app.dublincore.annotatableadapter has moved to zope.dublincore.annotatableadapter. Import of zope.app.dublincore.annotatableadapter will become unsupported in Zope 3.519:11
mexiKONthere. i get the deprecation warning19:11
mexiKONto verify, this really *is* the same object:19:11
mexiKON>>> root.__annotations__['zope.app.dublincore.ZopeDublinCore']._p_oid19:11
mexiKON'\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00"'19:11
mexiKON(same oid)19:11
mexiKONhow can that be?19:12
srichterhow can what be?19:16
mexiKONthat conn.get(oid) doesn't produce the deprecation warning but getting at the object the "normal" way does19:17
mexiKONbtw, then i tried:19:17
mexiKON>>> root.__annotations__['zope.app.dublincore.ZopeDublinCore']._p_activate()19:17
mexiKON>>> root.__annotations__['zope.app.dublincore.ZopeDublinCore']._p_changed = True19:17
mexiKON>>> import transaction19:17
mexiKON>>> transaction.commit()19:17
mexiKONquit the interpreter and started it again19:18
mexiKONstill getting the deprecation warning upon accessing the object via root.__anotations__....19:18
srichtermmh19:19
srichtertry to deliberately change an sttribute of the class19:19
srichterand commit the transaction19:19
srichterjust making sure the activate changed pair is working19:20
J1mah19:21
J1mThe object was converted19:21
J1mThe references to it weren't.19:21
mexiKONintereesting. didn't know they had to19:21
J1msay we have 2 objects, A&B19:22
J1mA refers to B.19:22
srichteroh that's right; that's the reason I touched all objects in my iteration19:22
J1mA's pickle has a reference to B's class so we can create a ghost for B without loading it's database record.19:22
mexiKONaaaaaah19:23
mexiKONthe ghost19:23
mexiKONgotcha19:23
mexiKONi know what to do then19:23
J1mscary, huh ;)19:23
srichteryes, it is :-)19:23
mexiKONnaah, it's ok once you understand it19:23
mexiKONjust proves again that i should know more about zodb semantics19:23
J1mThis is why the rename api would be helpful.19:24
mexiKONyeah19:24
J1mtoo bad I didn't have time to get it done.19:24
mexiKONso that the zodb would know by itself that something had been moved19:24
mexiKONwell, if we can get it for the next release, then i can start moviing those perrsistent things in zope.app.container and such :)19:24
J1mIn particular, rename would work at a deeper level.19:25
J1mIt would also deal with all globals, not just classes.19:25
mexiKONright19:26
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mexiKONi think i found the place where this code might go into19:26
mexiKONZODB.broken.find_global ?19:26
J1mwhere what code might go into?19:31
mexiKONthe rename code. the code that figures out that a certain global has moved19:33
J1mNo19:40
mexiKONok. just guessing ;)19:40
J1mI wouldn't put the rename code there.19:40
J1mI would make rename a method that used the iterator and operated explicitly when invoked.19:41
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J1mIt would not work lazily.19:41
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mexiKONJ1m, ok19:45
mexiKONbbl. supper19:45
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dobeehi all, does enybody know how i can simply get an addform defined with formib into the default add menu?20:31
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mgedmindobee: use the <addMenuItem ... /> directive20:32
mgedminassuming you already have a working view20:33
dobeethis requires a class or factory20:34
dobeebut my form creates the object20:34
dobeedo i miss something20:34
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mgedminoh, right20:38
mgedminmy mistake20:38
mgedmindobee: use <menuItem menu="zmi_add" action="@@yourviewname.html" />20:39
mgedminI think20:39
dobeethis does not work20:40
dobeeConfigurationError: ('Invalid value for', 'menu', "ImportError: Couldn't import zmi_add, No module named zmi_add")20:40
dobeethe add menu is not created like the other ones20:41
dobeethere is no name for it20:41
dobeeseems that there is no simple way to do something like this20:45
mexiKONdobee, you can just pass a stub class or factory20:45
mexiKONdobee, it's a stupid limitation that the addMenuItem needs class or factory when you already specify 'view'20:45
mexiKONmgedmin, btw, there's no such thing as zmi_add20:46
mgedminehh?20:46
mexiKONin fact, the add content menu doesn't have a "name" at all. it's an interface somewhere20:46
mgedminI must be terribly confused today then20:46
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dobeemexiKON: cool that works, thx20:50
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mexiKONsrichter, as far as my fixes are concerned, zope 3.3 is ready for another beta20:57
srichtermexiKON: fantastic20:58
srichtermexiKON: don't forget the forward port20:58
mexiKONalready done20:59
srichterok20:59
srichterwe really need a bug day20:59
mexiKONyup21:00
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