IRC log of #zope3-dev for Tuesday, 2006-05-23

« Monday, 2006-05-22 Index Wednesday, 2006-05-24 »
*** roym has quit IRC00:03
*** sashav has quit IRC00:04
*** roym` has left #zope3-dev00:04
*** roym has joined #zope3-dev00:05
*** benji has quit IRC00:17
*** gumpa has left #zope3-dev00:38
*** j1m has left #zope3-dev00:53
*** GaryPoster has quit IRC01:06
*** axelgitm has left #zope3-dev01:12
projekt01rocky, I sent you a mail with a sample of a subform01:15
projekt01based on formlib01:16
rockyprojekt01: excellent!  srichter explained it to me enough earlier today for me to get my simple problem fixed but the example you sent me is more involved and looks to teach me more :)01:16
rockyprojekt01: any reason you didn't CC the mailing list? was it because of proprietary code?01:19
*** zbir has joined #zope3-dev01:34
*** RaFromBRC has quit IRC01:40
*** natea has joined #zope3-dev01:46
*** fcorrea has quit IRC01:57
*** dobee has quit IRC01:58
*** rom|zZZZ is now known as romanofski02:01
romanofskimoin02:01
*** yota has quit IRC02:10
*** philiKON has quit IRC02:16
*** rocky has quit IRC02:24
*** jinty has joined #zope3-dev02:27
*** oferw has joined #zope3-dev02:34
*** natea has quit IRC02:42
*** natea has joined #zope3-dev02:43
projekt01rocky, ayt?02:43
*** romanofski has quit IRC02:45
*** rocky has joined #zope3-dev02:59
*** J1m has joined #zope3-dev03:14
*** stub has joined #zope3-dev03:27
*** projekt01 has left #zope3-dev03:32
*** RaFromBRC has joined #zope3-dev03:43
*** GaryPoster has joined #zope3-dev03:58
*** oferw has quit IRC04:07
roymIs it possible to get the a handle to the container root, from inside a utility method?04:21
*** J1m has left #zope3-dev04:21
*** retsu__ has joined #zope3-dev04:30
*** fcorrea has joined #zope3-dev04:33
*** jinty has quit IRC04:40
*** retsu__ has quit IRC04:53
*** niemeyer has quit IRC04:54
*** romanofski has joined #zope3-dev05:04
*** rocky has quit IRC06:01
*** dunny has quit IRC06:04
*** roym has quit IRC06:13
*** RaFromBRC has quit IRC06:47
*** fcorrea has left #zope3-dev07:02
*** stub has quit IRC07:07
*** stub has joined #zope3-dev07:15
*** stub has joined #zope3-dev07:16
*** RaFromBRC has joined #zope3-dev07:47
*** kamalgill has joined #zope3-dev08:06
*** sashav has joined #zope3-dev08:28
*** BjornT has quit IRC08:28
*** romanofski has quit IRC08:29
*** zopePloneConsult has joined #zope3-dev08:35
*** BjornT has joined #zope3-dev08:36
*** dobee has joined #zope3-dev08:38
*** sashav has quit IRC08:41
*** dlk has joined #zope3-dev08:53
*** BjornT has quit IRC08:58
*** BjornT has joined #zope3-dev09:07
*** dunny has joined #zope3-dev09:09
*** romanofski has joined #zope3-dev09:13
*** BjornT has quit IRC09:14
*** BjornT has joined #zope3-dev09:18
*** eins has joined #zope3-dev09:25
einshi09:25
*** BjornT has quit IRC09:30
*** BjornT has joined #zope3-dev09:39
*** d2m has quit IRC09:39
*** romanofski has quit IRC09:40
*** BjornT has quit IRC09:40
*** romanofski has joined #zope3-dev09:41
*** d2m has joined #zope3-dev09:43
*** BjornT has joined #zope3-dev09:49
*** BjornT has quit IRC09:53
*** BjornT has joined #zope3-dev09:55
*** kamalgill has left #zope3-dev09:55
*** BjornT has quit IRC09:55
*** RaFromBRC has quit IRC09:55
*** BjornT has joined #zope3-dev10:00
*** sashav has joined #zope3-dev10:03
*** yota has joined #zope3-dev10:15
*** philiKON has joined #zope3-dev10:16
*** J1m has joined #zope3-dev10:23
*** retsu__ has joined #zope3-dev10:30
*** MJ has quit IRC10:33
*** romanofski has quit IRC10:37
*** J1m has left #zope3-dev10:57
*** b_52CEntos has joined #zope3-dev10:58
*** b_52CEntos has left #zope3-dev10:58
*** axelgitm has joined #zope3-dev11:00
*** jinty has joined #zope3-dev11:05
*** MJ has joined #zope3-dev11:22
*** romanofski has joined #zope3-dev11:28
*** volvox has joined #zope3-dev11:32
*** faassen has joined #zope3-dev11:35
*** BjornT__ has joined #zope3-dev11:52
*** regebro has joined #zope3-dev11:54
*** BjornT has quit IRC11:55
*** BjornT__ is now known as BjornT11:55
*** alga has joined #zope3-dev12:02
*** mkerrin has joined #zope3-dev12:29
*** Aiste has quit IRC12:33
philiKONis there a notable difference between callable(ob) and hasattr(ob, '__call__') other than that the former will return True on old-style classes and the latter will return False12:43
*** rocky has joined #zope3-dev12:48
*** Aiste has joined #zope3-dev12:54
faassendoesn't hasattr in a ZODB context has some interaction with exceptions stuff?13:04
faassenphiliKON: I only have vague memories on that. :)13:04
*** yotaff has joined #zope3-dev13:04
philiKONthere's also the extensionclass weirdness13:04
SteveAhasattr eats babies13:09
SteveAum, eats exceptions13:09
SteveAall of them13:09
SteveAhasattr is evil13:10
SteveAit should be excised from python13:10
SteveAi always use getattr(obj, name, marker) instead13:10
faassenright, and the problem with the ZODB is that it raises conflict errors and such fun stuff which then get eaten?13:10
SteveAwell, a conflict error *should* doom the transaction13:10
faassenthough I guess since that now readconflict errors aren't there anymore, it might be less severe.13:10
SteveAbut i don't know whether tansaction dooming is well supported13:11
philiKONfaassen, SteveA, i tracked down the problem otherwise. thanks anyways13:11
philiKONbut if you guys feel strongly about hasattr(obj, '__call__'), we cna change the TALES engine to do getattr(obj, '__call__', marker)13:11
philiKON(it's the tALES engine i was digging thru)13:11
philiKONit checks whether things are callable and calls them if they are13:11
philiKONas you most definitely know :)13:11
philiKONzope 2 does callable(obj) while zope 3 does the hasattr check13:12
philiKONactually, zope 2 does callable(obj.aq_base)13:12
SteveAfor security proxies13:12
philiKONwhich makes a huge difference13:12
philiKONacquisition wrappers are always callable13:12
SteveAsecurity proxies are always callable13:12
philiKONaha13:12
SteveAi once made non-callable proxies13:12
philiKONhow do we deal with this problem generally then?13:12
SteveAand thought to use those for non-callable objects that needed proxies13:12
faassenwhat happens if you call them?13:12
SteveAbut it is rather complex13:12
philiKONfaassen, you get atttributeerror, i would assume13:13
philiKONfaassen, on __call__13:13
faassenoh, you just call the wrapped thing.13:13
SteveAfaassen: the proxy tries to call the underlying object, and gives an appropriate error13:13
philiKONright13:13
SteveAthis is one reason interfaces are better than "raw" introspection13:13
philiKONok. so, in order to support wrappers like sec. proxies and acquisition, i guess checking for __call__ attribute is better13:14
philiKONhowever, on acquisition wrappers, getattr(obj, '__call__', marker) will trigger acquisition13:14
SteveAyes13:14
philiKONwhile hasattr() wouldn't i assume13:14
SteveAyes13:14
SteveAno13:14
faassenhasattr doesn't trigger acquisition?13:15
philiKONnot sure13:15
SteveAhasattr i think would trigger acquisition13:15
philiKONok13:15
SteveAbut really, don't use hasattr ever13:15
philiKONhey, it's in the code :)13:15
SteveAand, add a comment in the code please13:15
faassenSteveA: zope's already using it. :)13:15
philiKONit's not my code13:15
philiKONSteveA, yes, i can even fix it13:15
SteveAto explain why this isn't saying "callable(...)"13:15
SteveAthat's way cool13:15
philiKONwill do13:15
SteveAi need to hack on zope this week13:15
SteveAi want to make it work with import hooks13:15
philiKONok. just to get this straight13:15
SteveAcos there is spooky code that assumes there is no import hook13:16
philiKONthe default tales thing will do the getattr() check for __call__ and figure out this way if things are callable or not13:16
SteveAand i have a Database Fascist i need to support13:16
philiKONin zope 2 we'll need to make sure to deal with aq_base13:16
SteveAwell, the "launchpad import fascist"13:16
SteveAneeds to raise its JackbootException13:16
philiKONthat still doesn't make it work with old style classes13:17
philiKONthey're callable13:17
philiKONand should be called if they're at the end of a traversal chain13:17
SteveAclasses?13:17
SteveAyou're creating new objects from TALES expressions?13:17
philiKON<p tal:define="now modules/DateTime/DateTime" tal:content="now/isCurrentYear" />13:17
philiKONDateTime is an old style class13:17
philiKONthe zope 3 TALES engine doesn't call it13:18
SteveAi've never used modules/.... in TALES13:18
*** hannosch has joined #zope3-dev13:18
philiKONzope 2 does (it checks for callable(obj.aq_base)13:18
SteveAlooks like poor taste to me13:18
philiKONSteveA, lots of people do...13:18
philiKONhey, i need to support existing code...13:18
philiKONi don't even think about what's poor taste and what not13:18
* philiKON is an island13:18
philiKON:)13:18
*** agroszer has joined #zope3-dev13:19
philiKONso, the question is, shall we make the zope 3 tales engine support old style classes13:19
philiKONor shall we just do this for zope 213:19
philiKONsupport == suppor thaving them called at the end of a tales expr13:19
* philiKON writes an email to the list13:21
regebroI think it's good if things are as similar as possible.13:22
philiKONi agree13:24
*** projekt01 has joined #zope3-dev13:29
*** mgedmin has joined #zope3-dev13:29
rockyy'know i have to admit that one of my biggest beefs with zope2 zpt is i never seem to really know when i need nocall: or not (well, obviously i do for primitives)13:30
rockyit shouldn't be so magical13:30
philiKONi really think that TALES oughta be changed13:30
philiKONnocall: should be default13:31
philiKONcall: should be explicit13:31
rockywell, now with the mainstream use of python properties, i think accessing non-callable attributes are becoming more and more the default13:31
philiKONyup. well, the implicit calling was so that TALES was understable by non programmers (HTML desigenrs)13:32
rockyah13:34
*** dunny has quit IRC13:35
*** rocky has quit IRC13:38
*** zopePloneConsult has left #zope3-dev13:43
volvoxboston rulez, but there are some glitches. where should I send bug reports? in the collector?13:50
*** rocky has joined #zope3-dev14:01
*** regebro has quit IRC14:04
*** regebro has joined #zope3-dev14:22
*** yotaff has quit IRC14:45
*** tiredbones has quit IRC14:49
*** tiredbones has joined #zope3-dev14:50
*** hannosch has left #zope3-dev14:55
*** niemeyer has joined #zope3-dev14:59
*** jinty has quit IRC15:00
*** ignas has joined #zope3-dev15:03
*** retsu__ has quit IRC15:05
*** hdima has joined #zope3-dev15:20
*** retsu__ has joined #zope3-dev15:26
*** oferw has joined #zope3-dev15:38
*** GaryPoster has joined #zope3-dev15:42
*** J1m has joined #zope3-dev15:53
*** oferw has quit IRC15:58
*** axelgitm has left #zope3-dev16:00
*** jinty has joined #zope3-dev16:03
*** zbir has quit IRC16:04
*** zbir has joined #zope3-dev16:05
*** Theuni has quit IRC16:09
*** romanofski has joined #zope3-dev16:12
*** rocky has quit IRC16:14
*** rocky has joined #zope3-dev16:15
*** tanghus has quit IRC16:19
*** tanghus has joined #zope3-dev16:19
*** romanofski is now known as rom|zZZZ16:38
rom|zZZZnighty16:38
*** benji has joined #zope3-dev16:41
*** MJ has left #zope3-dev16:49
*** MJ has joined #zope3-dev16:52
*** tanghus_ has joined #zope3-dev16:53
*** retsu__ has quit IRC16:57
*** BjornT has quit IRC16:57
*** BjornT__ has joined #zope3-dev16:57
*** BjornT__ is now known as BjornT16:58
*** tanghus has quit IRC17:03
*** tanghus_ has quit IRC17:10
*** tanghus_ has joined #zope3-dev17:11
*** dlk has quit IRC17:13
*** amit_am has joined #zope3-dev17:18
*** hdima has quit IRC17:20
*** Theuni has joined #zope3-dev17:23
*** retsu__ has joined #zope3-dev17:36
*** eins has quit IRC17:37
*** BjornT has quit IRC17:45
*** BjornT_ has joined #zope3-dev17:45
*** niemeyer has quit IRC17:49
*** BjornT_ has quit IRC17:50
*** niemeyer has joined #zope3-dev17:50
*** sashav has quit IRC17:55
*** BjornT has joined #zope3-dev17:56
*** BjornT has quit IRC17:57
*** BjornT__ has joined #zope3-dev17:58
*** BjornT__ is now known as BjornT17:59
*** alga has quit IRC18:00
*** retsu__ has quit IRC18:00
*** zagy has quit IRC18:05
*** dlk has joined #zope3-dev18:06
*** dlk has left #zope3-dev18:07
*** admp has joined #zope3-dev18:10
*** dobee has quit IRC18:12
*** Pupeno has joined #zope3-dev18:14
PupenoHello.18:15
PupenoI am trying to debug a functional test it is this one: http://paste.lisp.org/display/20317 what do the "..." mean there ?18:15
*** mkerrin has quit IRC18:17
philiKONJ1m, is fred in the office?18:18
philiKONPupeno, what do you think they mean...18:18
philiKONPupeno, they're ellipses18:18
J1mJim is working from home.18:19
J1mFred is working from home.18:19
philiKONok. he has AIM or something, right?18:19
PupenoI think they mean "anything" to be able to not have to fill everything; but I am not sure.18:19
philiKONPupeno, exactly18:19
Pupenobut that doesn't really match the way the test is failing.18:21
philiKONyou can get diffs18:21
philiKONsee python test.py --help18:21
PupenoI get tons of aditions (+) which should have been matched by the ellipsis... ok, let's ignore them...18:22
PupenoHere's one of the puzzling diffs: http://paste.lisp.org/display/20317#118:23
Pupenowhy did it miss to match it ?18:23
philiKONPupeno, perhaps you didn't turn ELLIPSIS?18:24
philiKONshould be turned on by default in an ftest, though18:24
PupenophiliKON: I haven't changed anything regarding the tests themselves, I added some code that made the tests fail and now I am trying to correct the tests themselves.18:25
*** gumpa has joined #zope3-dev18:27
Pupenomore worring unmatches are like these ones: http://paste.lisp.org/display/20317#2 (I haven't touched anything related to that html element).18:27
*** rocky is now known as rocky|away18:32
ignasPupeno, schooltool is using a bit different test runner do test.py --help might not really help you in this case, what i can tell you for sure is that schooltool testrunner is not handling ELLIPSIS in a special way when computing the diff18:40
ignass/do test.py/so test.py/18:40
Pupenoignas: I see. To solve my problem I basically ignored every un-matching line except those directly related to my addition, the false positives distracted me.18:41
mgedminthe diffs come directly from zope.testing.doctest module18:42
mgedminif somebody could fix the diff algorithm to produce meaningful results in the presence of ellipses/whitespace normalization, a lot of zope developers would be very grateful18:43
*** stub has quit IRC18:43
*** jinty has quit IRC18:46
*** oferw has joined #zope3-dev18:53
*** MJ has quit IRC18:59
*** stub has joined #zope3-dev19:00
*** projekt01 has left #zope3-dev19:01
*** Pupeno has quit IRC19:12
*** mkerrin has joined #zope3-dev19:13
*** admp has quit IRC19:28
*** gumpa is now known as gumpa-away19:30
*** faassen has quit IRC19:34
*** mexiKON has joined #zope3-dev19:35
*** admp has joined #zope3-dev19:35
*** jinty has joined #zope3-dev19:36
*** philiKON has quit IRC19:45
*** mexiKON is now known as philiKON19:47
*** volvox has quit IRC19:47
*** admp has quit IRC19:50
*** MJ has joined #zope3-dev19:59
*** admp has joined #zope3-dev20:00
*** jinty_ has joined #zope3-dev20:11
*** RaFromBRC has joined #zope3-dev20:15
*** regebro has quit IRC20:15
*** ignas has quit IRC20:15
*** ignas has joined #zope3-dev20:15
*** jinty has quit IRC20:26
*** zagy has joined #zope3-dev20:35
*** sashav has joined #zope3-dev20:36
*** nathany has joined #zope3-dev20:37
*** oferw has quit IRC20:38
*** nathany has quit IRC20:50
*** nathany has joined #zope3-dev20:51
*** ignas has quit IRC21:01
*** mkerrin has quit IRC21:02
*** dunny has joined #zope3-dev21:24
*** RaFromBRC is now known as RaFromBRC|food21:25
*** agroszer has quit IRC21:32
*** MacDinner has joined #zope3-dev21:33
*** dobee has joined #zope3-dev21:34
*** RaFromBRC|food is now known as RaFromBRC21:40
*** jinty_ has quit IRC21:45
*** Aiste has quit IRC21:46
*** RaFromBRC has quit IRC21:51
*** RaFromBRC has joined #zope3-dev21:54
*** MacDinner is now known as MacYET22:07
*** Aiste has joined #zope3-dev22:17
*** rocky|away has quit IRC22:26
*** GaryPoster has quit IRC22:40
*** admp has quit IRC22:45
*** alecm is now known as alecm|lunch22:53
*** oferw has joined #zope3-dev22:53
*** mgedmin has quit IRC23:02
*** MacYET has quit IRC23:12
*** MJ has quit IRC23:13
*** MJ has joined #zope3-dev23:14
*** zagy has quit IRC23:18
*** oferw has quit IRC23:18
*** alecm|lunch has quit IRC23:20
*** mgedmin has joined #zope3-dev23:30
*** projekt01 has joined #zope3-dev23:52
*** alga has joined #zope3-dev23:57
« Monday, 2006-05-22 Index Wednesday, 2006-05-24 »

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!