IRC log of #zope3-dev for Tuesday, 2006-05-23

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projekt01rocky, I sent you a mail with a sample of a subform01:15
projekt01based on formlib01:16
rockyprojekt01: excellent!  srichter explained it to me enough earlier today for me to get my simple problem fixed but the example you sent me is more involved and looks to teach me more :)01:16
rockyprojekt01: any reason you didn't CC the mailing list? was it because of proprietary code?01:19
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projekt01rocky, ayt?02:43
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roymIs it possible to get the a handle to the container root, from inside a utility method?04:21
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philiKONis there a notable difference between callable(ob) and hasattr(ob, '__call__') other than that the former will return True on old-style classes and the latter will return False12:43
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faassendoesn't hasattr in a ZODB context has some interaction with exceptions stuff?13:04
faassenphiliKON: I only have vague memories on that. :)13:04
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philiKONthere's also the extensionclass weirdness13:04
SteveAhasattr eats babies13:09
SteveAum, eats exceptions13:09
SteveAall of them13:09
SteveAhasattr is evil13:10
SteveAit should be excised from python13:10
SteveAi always use getattr(obj, name, marker) instead13:10
faassenright, and the problem with the ZODB is that it raises conflict errors and such fun stuff which then get eaten?13:10
SteveAwell, a conflict error *should* doom the transaction13:10
faassenthough I guess since that now readconflict errors aren't there anymore, it might be less severe.13:10
SteveAbut i don't know whether tansaction dooming is well supported13:11
philiKONfaassen, SteveA, i tracked down the problem otherwise. thanks anyways13:11
philiKONbut if you guys feel strongly about hasattr(obj, '__call__'), we cna change the TALES engine to do getattr(obj, '__call__', marker)13:11
philiKON(it's the tALES engine i was digging thru)13:11
philiKONit checks whether things are callable and calls them if they are13:11
philiKONas you most definitely know :)13:11
philiKONzope 2 does callable(obj) while zope 3 does the hasattr check13:12
philiKONactually, zope 2 does callable(obj.aq_base)13:12
SteveAfor security proxies13:12
philiKONwhich makes a huge difference13:12
philiKONacquisition wrappers are always callable13:12
SteveAsecurity proxies are always callable13:12
SteveAi once made non-callable proxies13:12
philiKONhow do we deal with this problem generally then?13:12
SteveAand thought to use those for non-callable objects that needed proxies13:12
faassenwhat happens if you call them?13:12
SteveAbut it is rather complex13:12
philiKONfaassen, you get atttributeerror, i would assume13:13
philiKONfaassen, on __call__13:13
faassenoh, you just call the wrapped thing.13:13
SteveAfaassen: the proxy tries to call the underlying object, and gives an appropriate error13:13
SteveAthis is one reason interfaces are better than "raw" introspection13:13
philiKONok. so, in order to support wrappers like sec. proxies and acquisition, i guess checking for __call__ attribute is better13:14
philiKONhowever, on acquisition wrappers, getattr(obj, '__call__', marker) will trigger acquisition13:14
philiKONwhile hasattr() wouldn't i assume13:14
faassenhasattr doesn't trigger acquisition?13:15
philiKONnot sure13:15
SteveAhasattr i think would trigger acquisition13:15
SteveAbut really, don't use hasattr ever13:15
philiKONhey, it's in the code :)13:15
SteveAand, add a comment in the code please13:15
faassenSteveA: zope's already using it. :)13:15
philiKONit's not my code13:15
philiKONSteveA, yes, i can even fix it13:15
SteveAto explain why this isn't saying "callable(...)"13:15
SteveAthat's way cool13:15
philiKONwill do13:15
SteveAi need to hack on zope this week13:15
SteveAi want to make it work with import hooks13:15
philiKONok. just to get this straight13:15
SteveAcos there is spooky code that assumes there is no import hook13:16
philiKONthe default tales thing will do the getattr() check for __call__ and figure out this way if things are callable or not13:16
SteveAand i have a Database Fascist i need to support13:16
philiKONin zope 2 we'll need to make sure to deal with aq_base13:16
SteveAwell, the "launchpad import fascist"13:16
SteveAneeds to raise its JackbootException13:16
philiKONthat still doesn't make it work with old style classes13:17
philiKONthey're callable13:17
philiKONand should be called if they're at the end of a traversal chain13:17
SteveAyou're creating new objects from TALES expressions?13:17
philiKON<p tal:define="now modules/DateTime/DateTime" tal:content="now/isCurrentYear" />13:17
philiKONDateTime is an old style class13:17
philiKONthe zope 3 TALES engine doesn't call it13:18
SteveAi've never used modules/.... in TALES13:18
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philiKONzope 2 does (it checks for callable(obj.aq_base)13:18
SteveAlooks like poor taste to me13:18
philiKONSteveA, lots of people do...13:18
philiKONhey, i need to support existing code...13:18
philiKONi don't even think about what's poor taste and what not13:18
* philiKON is an island13:18
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philiKONso, the question is, shall we make the zope 3 tales engine support old style classes13:19
philiKONor shall we just do this for zope 213:19
philiKONsupport == suppor thaving them called at the end of a tales expr13:19
* philiKON writes an email to the list13:21
regebroI think it's good if things are as similar as possible.13:22
philiKONi agree13:24
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rockyy'know i have to admit that one of my biggest beefs with zope2 zpt is i never seem to really know when i need nocall: or not (well, obviously i do for primitives)13:30
rockyit shouldn't be so magical13:30
philiKONi really think that TALES oughta be changed13:30
philiKONnocall: should be default13:31
philiKONcall: should be explicit13:31
rockywell, now with the mainstream use of python properties, i think accessing non-callable attributes are becoming more and more the default13:31
philiKONyup. well, the implicit calling was so that TALES was understable by non programmers (HTML desigenrs)13:32
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volvoxboston rulez, but there are some glitches. where should I send bug reports? in the collector?13:50
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PupenoI am trying to debug a functional test it is this one: what do the "..." mean there ?18:15
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philiKONJ1m, is fred in the office?18:18
philiKONPupeno, what do you think they mean...18:18
philiKONPupeno, they're ellipses18:18
J1mJim is working from home.18:19
J1mFred is working from home.18:19
philiKONok. he has AIM or something, right?18:19
PupenoI think they mean "anything" to be able to not have to fill everything; but I am not sure.18:19
philiKONPupeno, exactly18:19
Pupenobut that doesn't really match the way the test is failing.18:21
philiKONyou can get diffs18:21
philiKONsee python --help18:21
PupenoI get tons of aditions (+) which should have been matched by the ellipsis... ok, let's ignore them...18:22
PupenoHere's one of the puzzling diffs:
Pupenowhy did it miss to match it ?18:23
philiKONPupeno, perhaps you didn't turn ELLIPSIS?18:24
philiKONshould be turned on by default in an ftest, though18:24
PupenophiliKON: I haven't changed anything regarding the tests themselves, I added some code that made the tests fail and now I am trying to correct the tests themselves.18:25
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Pupenomore worring unmatches are like these ones: (I haven't touched anything related to that html element).18:27
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ignasPupeno, schooltool is using a bit different test runner do --help might not really help you in this case, what i can tell you for sure is that schooltool testrunner is not handling ELLIPSIS in a special way when computing the diff18:40
Pupenoignas: I see. To solve my problem I basically ignored every un-matching line except those directly related to my addition, the false positives distracted me.18:41
mgedminthe diffs come directly from zope.testing.doctest module18:42
mgedminif somebody could fix the diff algorithm to produce meaningful results in the presence of ellipses/whitespace normalization, a lot of zope developers would be very grateful18:43
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