IRC log of #zope3-dev for Wednesday, 2006-07-19

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baijumcan anyone have a look at this bug
baijumIf I substitute 'import doctest' with 'from zope.testing import doctest' , the error does not exist13:04
baijumso should we replace all 'import doctest' ?13:05
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* baijum will add a comment there itself13:06
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KazadeHi everyone, I'm having a problem setting up Zope. Everything seems fine and I can access the ZMI locally, however Zope doesnt open any external ports and no-one on my network can access the server. Why would Zope not open a port? I am completely new to Zope so sorry if this a stupid question :)13:25
Kazadesorry I should say im running on Windows 2k13:26
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ktwilightchecked firewall rules?13:28
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KazadeIm not running a firewall13:29
ktwilightdid you enter
ktwilightno idea then13:30
KazadeIf I run IIS on the same port, everything is fine13:30
Kazadeoh ok thanks anyway13:30
ktwilighti don't work with windows, so...13:30
KazadeI wouldnt if i didnt have to :)13:31
ktwilightsounds like it got something to do with IIS13:31
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overflowHi all. Is anyone here involved in producing the Windoze distribution of Zope 3?14:41
overflowI'm working with Kazade and we've tried installing it in various ways and it doesn't work14:42
overflowI'm wondering if the package is built because people actually use it or just because someone thinks they should14:43
d2moverflow: whats the install problem ?14:51
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overflowAfter installing Zope 3.2 or 3.3 on Win2K Workstation and starting the instance, the external port isn't opened14:59
d2moverflow: ?14:59
overflowyou can get to it from localhost:8080 but not externally14:59
d2moverflow: zope3s port defaults to 808014:59
d2moverflow: check your network settings and firewall14:59
overflowno firewall involved15:00
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d2moverflow: share us the IP address of the server15:00
overflowit's inside at NAT box so you can't get to it15:00
SmokeyDUnihi all. Does setupInputWidgets determine the value that will be displayed in the widget from the context if available and else from the default value from the form_field?15:01
d2moverflow: sooy15:01
overflowI've run nmap against it and the port is not showing15:01
overflowI'm no nooby to IP so I'm pretty sure Zope hasn't opened the port properly15:01
overflowwe've run this on Win2kW and Win2kS with same result15:02
overflowI'm getting priv msgs blocked15:03
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overflowd2m: Gimme a sec while I register. ta15:04
SmokeyDUnino ideas about the context?15:09
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overflowI need to change this nick. I can't register it.15:13
overflowback in a bit15:13
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rockythere's no such thing as "not opening a port properly" ... its either open or it isn't15:15
Theunithis bit isn't set properly15:15
rockythe problem most likely is that its only listening on
baijumthere is an issue in collector,
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baijumwhich module should be used in Zope 3 (not app) `zope.testing.doctest` or `doctest` ?15:20
baijumand why `doctest` is used in some places, to avoid `zope.testing` dependency?15:22
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TheuniI think it's zope.testing.doctest. It's our customized version of doctest. Not wanting to have a dependency on zope.testing isn't that relevant currently.15:24
Theunihi Aiste15:25
Aistehi theuni15:25
benjibaijum: generally, you should use zope.testing.doctest; it's generally newer than that in Python, or has other features15:26
benjiwe do try to keep them in sync as best as possible, and are investigating options other than keeping our own copy15:27
baijumWell then, can be fixed by simply replacing all 'doctest'15:27
benjiwhich is what I've recommended about an hour ago :)15:27
baijumsorry, I didn't noticed it :(15:28
baijumbenji, I didn't got your comment on #501 , can I subscribe to collector issues?15:33
benjiI think so baijum, but I don't see how, right off.15:34
baijumI think, to subscribe I should have 'supporter status' ? hmm.. now, how can I become a supporter?15:39
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* znapper shrugs off duff overlow nick and returns15:48
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znappergetting hard to find usable nicks without heading off into the realms of the rediculous15:48
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znapperHi Aiste - Dale here15:49
Aistehi znapper15:49
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benjiznapper: it helps to have a somewhat unusual given name ;)15:53
znapperwe've started a project that will give us a chance to do something with Zope 3 but we've been stuffed at the instance stage so far15:54
znapperbenji: indeed15:54
benjimkzopeinstance isn't cooperating, znapper?15:54
znapperbenji: no, we've created the instance but when we run it, the port isn't getting opened15:55
benjiwhat OS?15:55
znapperthis is on Win2k W or S15:55
znapperWe've tried Zope 3.2 & 3.315:56
znapperit works for localhost:8080 but no external access15:56
benjiright, you need to change the config15:57
benjilet me look so I can give you specifics15:57
znapperI'm game15:57
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benjiin your instance's zope.conf look in the <server> section and change address to include the machine's IP15:58
benjiso, znapper, instead of just "address 8080" it'd be something like "address"15:59
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znapperI'm working with Kazade. He's on the case15:59
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KazadeThat worked :D16:00
Kazadethanks alot benji16:00
benjimy pleasure16:00
znappercool. Cheers16:00
znapperwould it be worth submitting a bug request to get the comments - erm - enhanced in the config file?16:03
benjiznapper: an issue has been opened, but discussion seems to have stalled
znapperwe've wasted over a day on this and we're not newbies to this stuff16:04
znapper(well, we are to Zope 3) :-)16:05
benjithat's actually pretty "normal" behavior for sockets on windows, binding to no address only makes the port avialable to the local machine16:05
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znapperdocha just love Windows?16:05
benjiI do actually, but I'm a an (OS) poligomist :)16:06
znapperAre Zope 2 database connectors compatible with Zope 3?16:07
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benjigenerally nothing in Z2 is compatable with "bare" Z3, if you're need to work with both 2 and 3, look at Five (included in recent versions of Zope 2)16:09
Theuniznapper: depending on the database there should already be an adapter for z316:09
znapperI need to connect Zope 3 on Windows to SQL Server. On Zope 2, we used the Egenix mxODBC16:09
benjimore specifically, znapper, you can use any Python DB interface with Zope 3 just fine16:10
znapperbenji: Thanks. I'll investigate16:12
Theuniright. IIRC having a Python DB-API-2 compatible adapter is easy to set up.16:12
benjiznapper: for SQL Server, I'd recommend adodbapi16:13
znapperbenji: gotcha - ta16:13
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Theunibtw: i discovered a really cool thing which adapts any odbc database on windows to a network layer and offers clients that talk ODBC to other windows/unix/linux machines16:18
Theunireally useful to connect to weird windows databases from linux machines16:18
Theuni"easysoft odbc-odbc-adapter"16:19
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Theuniis the other half of germany in a different timezone now?16:19
znapperTheuni: noted, thanks16:19
MacYETschwabian is always a bit different16:20
znapperTheuni: we may want to do exactly that before too long16:20
MacYETswabia i mean16:21
Theuniznapper:  you're welcome. took me ages to find that for some reason.16:21
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znapperhow bizarre. I searched for 'easysoft odbc-odbc-adapter' and the second link for took me to a porn site!16:26
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* Theuni wonders why that is bizarre16:26
Theunicomparing the estimated amount of porn sites versus other content on the net, this might happen on every random link when googling for anything :)16:28
* znapper thinks the site's been cracked16:28
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Theunihmm. the domain is owned by someone in       Kowloon, Hong Kong M1J 2Z616:29
znapperif you go to and click on the odbc get some dodgy incest porn16:29
benjitoo much info, znapper16:30
Theunii just guessed ... that's worse *g16:30
Theunitoo mucho informationo16:30
* Theuni tries to get rid of the popups16:31
* Theuni wonders why firefox doesn't block them16:31
znapperI didn't get any popups16:31
TheuniIt was turned off obviously. Bzzz.16:31
* Theuni punches his firefox on the head16:31
znapperfound it eventually:
MJCan I safely have event handlers be implemented in persistent instances?16:35
* MJ fears he can't..16:35
MJI have a persistent workflow workitem16:35
Theuniisn't an event handler just a special kind of adapter?16:35
MJThat needs to be notified of a particular event.16:35
MJTheuni: Yes, it needs to be registered16:35
MJSo the registry will not be consistent across app restarts, I fear16:36
Theunihmm. i had a way to implement "persistent" adapters in my fingers a few days ago16:36
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MJNah, I'll just have to register a method, that'll then traverse to all workflow processes to tickle the worklists.16:38
MJAh, the event helps me narrow the subtree16:41
MJ(only processes in the affected object parent are interested)16:41
SmokeyDUniHey guys. Can I refer in an edit form to the __name__ property of the object on which the editform is called?16:46
SmokeyDUniso in http://localhost:8090/testproject/@@edit.html find out that the edit.html form is called on testproject?16:47
SmokeyDUnisomethin like calling self.context.__name__ or something inside a form class that inherits from EditFormBase16:48
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SmokeyDUnihey andrew_m16:54
SmokeyDUniDolf here16:54
gintas_SmokeyDUni: I would suggest using formlib instead of Zope's editing forms, as they are overly complex and crufty16:55
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andrew_mhi SmokeyDUni16:56
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SmokeyDUniyeah gintas_ that's what I'm donig16:57
SmokeyDUniI am defining my own form16:58
SmokeyDUniwhich inherits from EditFormBase16:58
SmokeyDUniand defining some of the functions myself16:58
gintas_oh, you're speaking about EditFormBase in formlib16:59
SmokeyDUnibut I want to refer to the name of the object on which I call the form, so I can do something with it and then set a default value for another form field16:59
gintas_isn't the object the context?16:59
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SmokeyDUniok, so I should be able to call self.context.__name__ anywhere in the form class?17:00
gintas_I don't see why not17:00
gintas_it's a view after all17:00
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SmokeyDUniok, let's try17:01
SmokeyDUniit works17:02
SmokeyDUnianother small question, the very first method of an EditFormBase inherited class, when the form is opened is the __call__ method right?17:05
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SmokeyDUniAs soon as you edit the object, and zope starts gathering the info for displaying the form, the __call__ function is called first?17:05
gintas_I think so17:06
gintas_obviously the form is constructed (__init__) first17:06
gintas_but __call__ is invoked when rendering17:06
gintas_I'm not sure about update()17:06
SmokeyDUniyeah ok, __init__ first of course, but the form does not have a context then does it?17:07
philiKONSmokeyDUni, all browse rpages will be called whey they're published17:09
philiKONforms are also browserpages17:09
philiKONhence, their __call__ will indeed be called when the form is rendered17:09
philiKONthe __call__ then should call update()17:09
philiKONin fact, this is what the __call__ of a form looks like:17:10
philiKON    def __call__(self):17:10
philiKON        self.update()17:10
philiKON        return self.render()17:10
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SmokeyDUniok thanks. I saw the __call__ function indeed.17:14
SmokeyDUniso guessed it indeed but wasn't shire17:14
SmokeyDUnithanks philiKON.17:20
SmokeyDUniwelcome back by the way17:20
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znapperZope 2 user fumbling with Zope 3 questions:17:28
znapperwhat's the equiv of the old user folder?17:28
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J1mphiliKON: I assume you weren't volunteering to remove mutable schemas.17:33
J1mI'm about to start that, so let me know if I'm wrong.17:34
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SmokeyDUnican any of you get into the #python channel?17:41
SmokeyDUniI can get in all channels I tried, except #python17:41
mgedminznapper: there's a (local) pluggable authentication utility, and PrincipalFolder17:41
SmokeyDUnibut get no error message17:41
mgedminSmokeyDUni: I can17:41
SmokeyDUnithat's strange17:41
znapperSmokeyDUni: yes. I can get in OK17:41
SmokeyDUnii'll try another client17:41
mgedminor maybe you have to be registered with nickserv?17:42
SmokeyDUniok, that could be. I am, but I forgot my passwd17:42
znappermgedmin: thanks - any idea how I get started with it?17:42
TheuniSmokeyDUni:  at least you're not in the ban list afaict17:42
SmokeyDUniok thanks17:42
J1msrichter: ayt?17:42
benjiSmokeyDUni: you have to be identified to get into #python17:42
d2mhmm, cant find 'zope.testing' in the trunk -- where to look ? (from zope.testing import doctest)17:43
SmokeyDUniok thanks. I will recover my pwd :) It's still on my laptop I guess17:43
benjid2m: it's a seperate top-level project at svn.zope.org17:45
benjiyou can browse it at or check it out from svn:// (if I didn't typo that URI)17:46
d2mit won't be in a checkout -- how is this suposed to work ?17:46
benjid2m: it's an external17:47
* d2m tries a svn up17:47
d2mbenji: thanks17:49
benjinp :)17:49
mgedminznapper: go to ++etc++site in the ZMI, add a Principal Folder, then add a Pluggable Authentication Utility and configure it to use the principal folder you just added (and a bunch of other plugins)17:53
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znappermgedmin: Can't see Principal Folder in ++etc++site18:06
znapperonly adable thing is Site-Management Folder18:06
znapperaddable, even18:06
znapperI thought Zope 3 was supposed to be better documented than Zope 2 but we have found just a few scraps of info. Certanly not enough to start using it for serious work18:08
znapperthe ZMI offers no help on getting started18:08
mgedminI think you have to go into the 'default' folder18:08
benjiznapper: we need more and better "getting started" docs, but for a person who has a little bit of Z3 zen, it's quite well documented18:09
mgedminah, you add the principal folder *inside* the pluggable auth utility18:10
znapperWhat's 'Prefix' for?18:10
* mgedmin never uses that stuff18:10
benjiperhaps this would help you get started:
mgedminprefix is to avoid clashes between different sites18:10
mgedminso that you could have user 'john' in site1 and user 'john' in site218:11
mgedminand zope 3 could tell them apart18:11
znappermgedmin: OK. thanks. Is this better than the way Zope2 did it?18:12
mgedminno idea18:12
mgedminZMI is not the focus of zope 318:12
ktwilightit's more programming focus?18:13
znapperI don't mean the ZMI. Zope 2 used a hierarchy to use permissions18:13
ktwilightznapper, you should read the docs at, there have good ones18:13
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znapperktwilight: we had a hunt around but didn't find much. Was there something in particular you were thinking of?18:16
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benjiznapper: also, I'd reccomend you get one or both of the Z3 books currently out18:17
ktwilighttry looking through every link in that page18:18
ktwilighti glanced through pretty much all of those links in there, and i've gotta say, there are good infos18:18
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znapperbenji: I'd read that the books were already too out of date to be useful18:18
ktwilightthe Z3 books looks good too, though i think i read somewhere that one of 'em is a bit out of date18:18
ktwilightonly one of 'em, not the other18:19
benjiI wouldn't say so, all technical books are outdated the moment they're printed, but those will at least give you the basics18:19
znapperOK. I'll see if Amazon wants my money18:20
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J1mDoes anyone here know about mutabel schemas?18:32
J1mOr of the security declarations for fields are used for anything else?18:32
philiKONJ1m, sorry, was afk18:33
philiKONJ1m, i wasn't volunteering...18:33
J1mThat's OK.18:33
* philiKON had 3 exams today18:34
J1mI'm tempted to get rid of the security declarations for fields.18:34
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J1mBut I don't know what they are used for.18:34
philiKONgood question18:34
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MacYET__what is the current state of zope 3.3? *grouching*18:53
J1mI'm working on resolving the issues.18:54
J1mBTW, I'm going on vacation for a week starting tomorrow.18:54
J1mAnd plan more next months.18:55
MacYET__i am on vacation next week :)18:55
* J1m wonders if there will be a June release in August.18:55
MacYET__perhaps on x-mas18:55
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J1mMaybe we should combine the June and November releases.19:00
J1mIf we can get done on time.19:00
J1mOf course, we didn't specify a year.19:01
benjihow would that be different from canceling the June release? :)19:01
MacYET__something sooner would be fine :-)19:01
J1mRight, we should cancel it to avoid being late.19:01
benjiI propose we move the June release to November and the November release to next June, then if we are late again we'll be back on time!19:02
philiKONJ1m, btw, i thought about the security declarations19:02
MacYET__well, 2.10 is ready...we're just waiting :)19:02
philiKONJ1m, aren't they needed for widgets?19:02
J1mI don't know19:02
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J1mNo tests fail if I ommit that zcml.19:03
philiKONmmmh, then let's leave it out :)19:04
philiKONbtw, i've been wanting to work with theuni on this particularly nasty security issue19:04
philiKONthen i think there are only 2 or 3 more critical issues19:04
philiKONat least we could have another beta soonish19:04
J1mI hope so.19:05
J1mNote we don't use "critical" anymore. :)19:05
philiKONyeah, seen that19:05
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philiKONTheuni, ping19:11
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* MacYET__ is back (gone 01:37:10)19:55
* MacYET__ is away: Wie Schafe geh'n, floh'n wir zerstreut, denn wir walten jeder seinen eigenen Weg, wie Schafe geh'n19:55
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gabrielboysis this the proper channel for questions about using Zope for development, or more for the development of zope itself?22:30
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