IRC log of #zope3-dev for Saturday, 2006-08-05

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SmokeyDgood morning10:07
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SmokeyDsorry for the caps10:43
SmokeyDI know it's version 3, but there seems to be no place, either in the zmi or through command line options to see the eaxct version10:43
SmokeyDI can't find it in the listing from the server on screen, I can't find it anywhere in any of the executables with a -V option or something10:44
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SmokeyDhey all, I've got a question. I want to make my own widget for Float schema fields. Nothing fancy, I just want to display thye input field, no text, title, etx11:46
SmokeyDwhat is the best place to override this11:46
SmokeyDshould I make my complete own widget or can I inhherit from float and override just one small thing?11:47
SmokeyDor is it just a matter of my own template for the form?11:51
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waglikis there a howto about workflow components in zope3?13:14
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floxwaglik: see zope.wfmc, and on, maybe13:23
waglikok, thx13:24
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SmokeyDhi guys, how do I use my own template in FormBase instead of template=namedtemplate.NamedTemplate('default')?14:02
SmokeyDwhat do I pass to NamedTemplate?14:02
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baijumSmokeyD: have a look at this and previous mails
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SmokeyDok thanks baijum, that helps14:11
SmokeyDI didn't know it was done using an adapter in the configure.zcml14:12
SmokeyDthat clears things up14:12
SmokeyDthanks a lot14:12
baijumSmokeyD: welcome :)14:13
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floxthere's no clear statement that some ZCML directives are deprecated when i read /++apidoc++/ZCML/15:28
floxi plan to commit some documentation changes in order to fix that.15:29
floxexample:     """ *BBB: DEPRECATED* """ at the beginning of the directive class15:30
philiKONflox, perhaps some more informative messages?15:31
philiKONe.g. BBB: This directive has beend eprecated and will be removed xyzf15:31
floxphiliKON: maybe, but i do not want to duplicate some information that is already in the "metaconfigure.zcml"15:31
philiKONwhy not? duplicate it15:32
philiKONBBB markers can't be overstated15:32
benjiflox: if you could find a way to reuse the existing deprecation warning text, that would be good (but might require parsing the code)15:34
floxbenji: this implies changes on the ++Apidoc++ thing15:35
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SmokeyDsorry, but I'm gonnam bug you with another question :)15:36
SmokeyDHow do I access a tuple in a pt? Ive got this:15:37
SmokeyD <tr tal:repeat="costtype view/costTypes">15:37
SmokeyD        <td tal:content="costtype/0"></td>15:37
SmokeyD        <td tal:repeat="budgettype view/budgetTypes">widget</td>15:37
SmokeyD      </tr>15:37
SmokeyDbut I get the error that tuple indices should be integers15:37
SmokeyDeacht row in costTypes is indeed a tuple15:38
SmokeyDso I though costtype/0 should get me the first element of the tuple15:39
floxSmokeyD: tal:content="python: costtype[0]"15:39
floxbec costtype/0 is understood as string '0', i guess15:39
SmokeyDok, it's not possible through path expressions.15:39
SmokeyDyes it is15:40
floxbenji, phliKON: here is my proposal (for the <browser:tool> thing)
philiKONfine with me15:42
benjiI'm not real keen on duplicating all deprecation info.15:42
philiKONwhy not. the interface will go away anyways15:42
philiKONit should really already have a BBB marker15:42
philiKONin a comment15:42
philiKONof course, docstrings are better for apidoc15:43
benjiif that's a policy already, then there's no question...15:43
benjibut it seems better to me to deprecate something in only one place (DRY and all that)15:43
floxbenji: u're righ15:44
philiKONbenji, but if "something" is like 3 different things?15:45
floxbut i did not find common pattern between deprecation of <browser:tool> and <browser:layer> for example15:45
philiKONa) interface15:45
philiKONb) handler15:45
philiKONc) snippet in meta.zcml15:45
philiKONflox, different people did it15:45
philiKONi did browser:layer15:45
floxand without common pattern, not easy to automate BBB retrieving15:45
philiKONbrowser:layer should have BBB markers everywhere15:45
philiKONi should really have put it in the docstrings15:45
philiKONperhaps that should become a pattern15:45
philiKONthey're better extractable then15:45
flox<browser:tool> is deprecated in the ""15:46
floxwith a warnings.warn(15:46
benjimy point is that the more work someone has to do to do something "right", the less likely it'll get done15:46
philiKONbenji, good point15:46
philiKONbenji, of course, if there was a written down guide15:46
philiKONflox, right. that's correct15:46
benjiit may not be practacle to do what I'm suggesting, but it'd be nice to try15:46
philiKONflox, stuff needs to issue warnings.15:46
philiKONflox, otherwise it's not relaly deprecated15:47
floxyes, maybe we need to parse these warning messages within apidoc, to retrieve deprecation messages.15:47
floxbut it does not look easy for me...15:48
floxand i am afraid some deprecation are done differently15:48
benjiI don't know how apidoc works, so I can't speak to how easy/hard it'll be15:48
floxme too15:48
floxeasiest thing to do today, is to change the docstring for every deprecated directive, i think15:49
benjiI'd say that if it isn't deprecated using the built-in machinery, it's not deprecated15:49
benjiflox, (if that's not a trivial change, i.e., just a few docstrings) I fear that would set people up to be bitten in the future.  All future docstrings will have to contain that information, or it quickly becomes (worse than) useless.15:50
benjiI'm going to look at apidoc real quick.15:51
floxbenji: ur idea is to parse the 'warnings.warn' thing?15:52
benjisomething like that15:52
floxor 'warnings.warn_explicit' (depending on the module)15:52
floxi've listed 10 deprecated directives that are still present in zope 3.315:53
floxbut maybe there's more15:54
benjiyou found 10 deprecated things that are still used in Z3? or 10 that exist?15:54
flox10 that are available in /++apidoc++/ZCML/15:55
benjiahh, ok15:55
floxand u have to read source code to understand they are deprecated15:55
benjior try to use them and get a warning (not nice, but not awful15:55
flox(i was confused a little at the beginning, when i started to learn Zope3)15:55
baijumhmm... user first learn something and use... then he see that it is deprecated :)16:06
benjinot ideal16:06
* flox is reading the thing...16:12
benjiflox: I've been looking for a few minutes now, and it's not clear to me how it gathers up the information about ZCML16:14
benjiit lookst like it all starts in zope/app/apidoc/codemodule/, in the ZCMLFile class16:16
floxbenji: main functions are within
floxand u find the PT and the view class in 'zcmlmodule'16:18
floxbenji: i think the apidoc only parse the function and  class definitions, and the docstrings16:22
floxi do not find anything about parsing function source code16:23
baijumflox: to get warning we have to make instance of the directive classes, so the better idea is to duplicate the warning message in docstring also?16:36
floxi think so...16:38
floxrisk is that when you deprecate some directive, u forget to write it in the docstring16:38
floxbut this is not big risk, this will not cause compilation to fail16:39
floxand we do not deprecate things every day16:39
floxbaijum: i will change the docstring for the 10 directives that we've listed on ur page "What's new in Zope 3.3"16:40
baijumflox: I am really new here, so better first ask it in list or submit a collector issue, then commit changes.16:43
floxsince it is only docstring changes, i don't think many developers care about this16:47
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floxand that will give some help to new zope3 users16:48
baijumflox: surely16:52
baijumI like the idea used in bazaar, use docstrings with string formatting for warning messages:
benjiwhat do you see as the advantage, baijum?16:59
floxthis is not clear how i can use it17:00
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floxi do not find anything in source code that say <localUtility> is deprecated18:09
floxphiliKON: i assume it is deprecated?18:10
philiKONwe missed to oficially deprecate it18:12
philiKONso, it really doesn't do anything special18:12
philiKONnot useful anymore18:12
philiKONbut not officially deprecated18:12
philiKONjust discouraged18:12
philiKONit's exactly the same as <class />18:12
floxso, if i prepare a patch for 3.3 branch, for the docstrings, i should not claim it is deprecated18:13
philiKONi guess we could still deprecate it since we're in beta18:14
philiKONbut yeah, at this point you shouldn't claim it's deprecated18:14
floxi should ask on the mailing list?18:14
philiKONjust discouraged18:14
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* MJ curses the lack of an etc namespace registry21:46
MJI'd love for that to exist..21:46
* MJ has a server-wide debugger service to control and ++etc++wingdebug would have been a great place to hang the controls..21:47
MJI'll tie it in at ++etc++process instead..21:48
MJNot that easy either as it'll have to be a subobject of the app controller methinks.21:51
floxMJ: you have such a registry in zope/traversing/configure.zcml22:05
floxmaybe u need to override the  <view name="etc" ...> thing.22:05
floxand <adapter name="etc" ...>, too22:07
MJflox: I know, I'll just register my own namespace handler22:12
MJflox: but the etc namespace handler is hardcoded to only accept ++etc++process and ++etc++site.22:12
MJThe comments state that a registry would be handy, but may be a YAGNI22:13
* MJ is going the ++my++own-namespace route22:13
floxmaybe u can subclass zope.traversing.namespace.etc factory22:13
floxand to extend the "traverse" method22:14
MJToo much trouble22:14
MJI'd have to add an -overrides.zcml just for that.22:15
MJI could also just submit a proposal and extend the etc namespace handler to use a Interface type22:15
MJBut that is also too much trouble ;)22:16
floxi see what you mean22:16
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