IRC log of #zope3-dev for Tuesday, 2006-09-12

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g_n_o_s_i_safternoon all00:31
g_n_o_s_i_scan anyone tell me how to setup a menu item to only show for an unauthenticated user?00:32
Theunii think you might be able to use a condition for that00:32
Theunido menuitems have conditions? i think i saw something like that.00:32
philiKONthey  have a filter00:32
g_n_o_s_i_si'm not talking the add menu... a page added to the zmi_views00:32
g_n_o_s_i_sso it would be on the <page..... with menu=zmi_views title=register00:33
g_n_o_s_i_sdidn't see any filters in the zcml referece to <browser:page>00:33
philiKONuse <browser:menuItem />00:34
philiKONstill, i would do it via the permission00:34
philiKONuse a permission on the menu item that an unauthenticate duser won't have00:34
g_n_o_s_i_si want it for the unauthenticated user... i want it to be gone for anyone taht is authenticated00:35
philiKONyou can do that too00:35
philiKONi just told you00:35
g_n_o_s_i_sdo i need to define a permission for principal zope.anybody?00:35
philiKONgive one the permission and the other one not00:35
philiKONyou define a pmerission, then you grant it to zope.anybody00:36
philiKONbut not to anyone else00:36
g_n_o_s_i_sok... that is what i needed00:36
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g_n_o_s_i_syes!!!!, thanks philiKON00:41
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febbHola !!    hi all !01:45
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runyagais 304 expensive to compute in z3 land?03:35
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ChrisWis there any way to register a teardown method for a DocFileSuite? I'm creating some temp files that I need to get rid of...14:25
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philiKONChrisW, DocFileSuite(..., tearDown=myTearDown)14:28
philiKONsee Zope3/dut.py14:29
ChrisWcool, thanks, just rtfm'ing :-)14:29
ChrisWnot used to code actually being documented ;-)14:29
philiKONyeah, i refrained from rtfming you this time :)14:29
philiKONChrisW, you gotta stop complaining about code being documented...14:29
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einsI want to use multiple schemas in forms using formlib. however some fields have the same name and zope complains with ValueError: ('Duplicate name', blah blah). what do I do?14:34
mgedminyou could have two sets of form fields, with different prefixes, I suppose14:38
mgedminI think you can do form_fields = form.Fields(IFoo, prefix='foo') + form.Fields(IBar, prefix='bar')14:38
mgedminbut I'm not entirely sure14:39
* mgedmin found that reading the source code of zope.formlib often helps, when the documentation is too scarce14:39
einsthanks, i'll try that14:39
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philiKONmgedmin, the prefix="" option to form.Fields is buggy, btw14:42
philiKONi meant to file a bug report for that14:42
mgedminyay, joy14:42
philiKONwell, it's functional14:42
* mgedmin is confused14:42
philiKONbut the form ids it creates are funny14:42
mgedminwould it have anything to do with trailing periods?14:42
philiKONfirst field will be14:42
philiKONsecond field will be14:42
philiKONthen prefix.prefix.prefix.field314:43
mgedminI think I saw that once14:43
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* baijum added this formlib question to
einsright, it has that bug philiKON14:47,, and so on14:48
philiKONeins, file a bug report please :)14:48
* eins is looking at formlib code, maybe it's a minor one14:49
philiKONeins, yup, bug report + patch is always appreciated :)14:49
philiKONeins, esp. if the patch has a teset14:50
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* baijum thinks to split up the book :
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J1mphiliKON: could you set up the 3.3.0c1 release on
J1mI have a source release.20:02
philiKONJ1m, will do20:02
J1mI'm about to start working on the windows release.20:02
J1mI'm not going to upload the source release until I test the windows release.20:06
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philiKONJ1m, ok. lemme know.20:07
philiKONi'll work on the announcements20:07
philiKONJ1m, srichter, who has the rights to the cheeseshop section for zope 3?20:08
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J1mNot me. :(20:09
philiKONhm :(20:09
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srichterI do :-)20:11
philiKONsrichter, can you give me rights, too, plz?20:11
srichteraehm, at least IU can upload Zope 3 releases20:11
philiKONmy cheeseshop login is philikon20:11
srichterI am not aware about the section, but me or Fred did the first Zope 3 release20:11
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srichterphiliKON: what do I have to do?20:12
srichterok, I am the owner I see20:13
philiKONsrichter, go to Admin20:13
philiKONwhere it says:20:13
philiKONPackage: admin | view | edit | files | PKG-INFO20:13
philiKON(you click on 'admin')20:13
philiKONand grant me maintainer role20:14
philiKONme = philikon :)20:14
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ChrisWhey all, if I'm developing a brand new thiungy for Zope 2, where should I import Persistent from? In Zope 2.9, can I use the Zope 3 one yet? if so, what is it?20:34
philiKONyou can use that20:35
ChrisWcool :-)20:35
philiKONbut only if you don't need ExtensionClass semantics20:35
ChrisWI don't think I do...20:35
ChrisWif fact, if I use persistent.Persistent, am I free to use properties?20:35
philiKONbut you're free to use properties with extensionclass as well20:36
J1mYou can use properties in either case.20:36
philiKONbecause since zope 2.8 they're new style20:36
ChrisWah, okay20:36
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ChrisWcan I mix Acquisition.Implicit with persistent.Persistent?20:36
philiKONChrisW, Implicit is an ExtensionClass20:37
ChrisWright, but Zope 2's security is non-functional without Implicit20:37
ChrisW(tried without, kept getting told I hadn't provided a usernaem or password)20:37
philiKONactually, Explicit is enough20:37
philiKONbut yes, zope 2 security needs acquisition20:37
philiKONi have a fix, but it's not ready yet20:37
ChrisWyeah, Explicit it may well need, but that's stil lan ExtensionClass, no?20:38
philiKONyeah, it is20:38
philiKONzope 2...20:38
ChrisWok, what persistent should I use/20:38
philiKONPersistence.Persistence i guess20:38
philiKONor whatever it was called20:38
ChrisWHow's Zope 3's webdav story nowadays?20:39
philiKONapparently better when you use zope.webdav (optional)20:39
srichtervery, very good thanks to mkerrin :-)20:39
ChrisWI wish I wasn't behind on this project, there's little reason to do it on Zoep 2 other than force of habit...20:40
ChrisW...the customer might shit bricks too, but not many ;-)20:40
ChrisWI hope it'll be fun to see how comparatively easy it is to use twiddler in Zope 3 :-)20:41
philiKONwhat's twiddler?20:42
ChrisWlike meld3 but with a more style-pedant author20:42
ChrisW(ie: me ;-) )20:42
ChrisWoh, and pluggable input parsers, output renderers and filters20:42
ChrisWcurrent have a plain text and html/xml input, unicode and email output renders, and an html quoting filter by default20:43
ChrisWyeah, I've been keeping it under wraps for about 9 months now, but I wanna use it on this custoemr project20:43
ChrisWhmm, there a pastbin around? I'll shwo you  a snippet...20:44
* philiKON always uses http://paste.lisp.org20:44
ChrisWheh, trying now :-)20:45
ChrisWI can even use icky dtml bits to build zmi pages ;-)20:47
ChrisW...although the plaintext parser makes it even less icky20:47
ChrisWthe only confusing thing o nthere are the params to ZopeTwiddler's constructor20:47
ChrisWthe id is to appease the Zope 2 gods20:48
ChrisWthe rest are as for a normal twiddler20:48
ChrisWI'm really happy with out the FileWrapper input turned out20:48
ChrisWno need for a seperate FileTwiddler or some such20:48
philiKONwhat's FileWrapper do?20:49
ChrisWit's an input that treats the source argument as a filename, reads it, and then parses it to the "real" input parser passed to its constructor20:49
ChrisWin this case, PlainText20:49
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ChrisWI was trying to avoid a having the PageTemplate,ZopePageTemplate,PageTemplateFile triality :-)20:50
philiKONyeah, makes sense20:50
ChrisWI'm _very_ happy with how the pipelines input and output have turned out20:51
philiKONin zope, you should look at ViewPageTemplateFile20:51
philiKONin zope 3 that is20:51
philiKONit's a good scheme to implement "methods" as a template20:51
philiKONclass FooPage(BrowserPage):20:51
philiKON    __call__ = ViewPageTempalteFile('')20:51
philiKONyou can call a FooPage object and the template gets rendered20:51
ChrisWI think for me that'd be:20:52
philiKONthe trick is that the template has access to FooPage's request, etc.20:52
ChrisWclass FooPage(BrowserPage):20:52
ChrisW  __call__ = Twiddler('foo.twiddler',FileWrapper(prefix=__file__),executor=myCallable)20:53
ChrisW...which will work as-is :-)20:53
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ChrisWoops, forgot an input= before the FileWrapper20:53
ChrisWok, but how _do_ you get acccess to the request and other context?20:53
philiKONnote that Twidder has to be something that's callable by itself20:54
philiKONyeah, that's the trick20:54
philiKONTwiddler.__call__ won't get request and context20:54
philiKONactually, you'd have something like20:54
philiKONclass FooPage(BrowserPage):20:54
ChrisWgood thing too, it wouldn't know what to do with them ;-)20:54
philiKON    __call__ = TwiddlerMethod(**kw)20:54
philiKONand TwiddlerMethod is an property-style object20:54
ChrisWproperty-style object?20:54
philiKONon __get__, it fetches the page's context and request object, and returns a Twiddler object20:54
philiKONyou know, thos ethings with __get__ and __set__20:55
philiKONclass Foo(object):20:55
philiKON    @property20:55
philiKON    def bar(self): return 120:55
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ChrisWah, ok20:55
ChrisWhmm, that''s probably be a Zope3Twiddler then ;-)20:55
ChrisWsounds pretty sweet though :-)20:55
ChrisWTTW Zope 3  Twiddlers will be fun too ;-)20:55
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philiKONyes, look at ViewPageTemplateFile, it's a pretty powerful scheme20:56
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ChrisWshame there's a relaince on having a __call__ method20:56
philiKONbasically, a ViewPageTemplateFile object is just a surrogate which returns a "real", request-and-context-bound page template object upon __get__20:56
ChrisWTwiddler's only have a render method at present20:56
ChrisWmaybe they should have a call method?20:57
mgedminwell, very often you want to do more than just render a template20:57
mgedminmy usual pattern is20:57
mgedminclass SomeView(BrowserPage):20:57
mgedmin    template = ViewPageTemplateFile('templates/')20:57
mgedmin    def __call__(self):20:57
mgedmin        self.update()20:57
mgedmin        return self.template()20:57
ChrisWyeah, that's what I figured20:58
mgedminand sometimes I have more than one template with an if statement choosing which one should be rendered20:58
ChrisWin fact, that suites twiddler even better20:58
ChrisWclass SomeView(BrowserPage):20:58
philiKONyeah, but self.template is a Twiddler object20:58
philiKONso, you'd have to say self.template.render()20:58
ChrisW  template = Twiddler('myfile.twiddler',input=FileWrapper(prefix=__file__))20:58
ChrisW  def __call__(self):20:58
ChrisW   t = self.template.clone()20:59
ChrisW  t['some_id'].replace('my_value',style='font-weight: bold;')20:59
ChrisW return t.render()20:59
ChrisW...if you see what I mean20:59
ChrisWTwiddler's are like lumps of putty20:59
ChrisWthey don't have any "code" as such21:00
* philiKON sees what you mean21:00
ChrisWso actually, I think they'll be _ideal_ for Zope 3 :-)21:00
philiKONyes, i think twiddler fits into browserpages nicely21:00
ChrisWfunnilly enough, I started working o nthe m in January when I was going through your book and learnign Zope 3 for the first time21:00
philiKONheh, cool21:01
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ChrisWthat was when I finally snapped and thought "Zpt sux"21:01
ChrisWtemplates should have no code21:01
ChrisWalthough I allow code to be associated with a twiddler for execution at runtime21:01
philiKONi still like the meld idea better21:01
ChrisWwhat's the meld idea?21:01
philiKONbut i agree that twiddler is cool for non-xml data21:01
philiKONwell, meld is about modifying an xml tree, right?21:01
ChrisWso's twiddler ;-)21:02
philiKONfor markup, i like working on an elementtree21:02
philiKONor something that like that21:02
* mgedmin sees 'meld', me thinks about the Gtk+ visual merge tool21:02
ChrisWer, twiddler uses elementree under the hood ;-)21:02
philiKONnice :)21:02
philiKONi gotta check this out then21:02
philiKONis it on the cheeseshop? egg?21:02
philiKONah, wait, it's you :)21:02
philiKONof course not21:02
ChrisWt = Twiddler('<node id="fish">something</node>')21:02
* mgedmin likes zpts21:03
ChrisWt.render() -> u'<node id="fish">foo</node>'21:03
ChrisWsadly nto released yet21:03
ChrisWI'm very glad I waited21:03
ChrisWI've changed the api a _lot_ in the last month or two21:03
philiKONhelloooo mr. "stop changing apis!"21:04
ChrisWyes, but these aren't released yet :-P21:04
ChrisWhmmm, I'm now thinking of renaming 'render' to __call__21:04
ChrisWmaybe just a synonim?21:05
ChrisWTwiddler('<node id="fish">something</node>')() looks perverse to me :-S21:05
ChrisWTwiddler('<node id="fish">something</node>').render() looks better21:05
ChrisWthat said, msg = t.render(), where msg ends up being a MIMEMultipart doesn't feel quite right either ;-)21:06
mgedminhow often will you render a template immediately after constructing it?21:07
ChrisWvery true ;-)21:07
ChrisWthat said, I can't see any harm in having __call__ as a synonym for render21:07
mgedminsynonym's aren't very pythonic -- There Should Be One Obvious Way To Do It21:09
mgedminformlib, I'm looking at you21:09
mgedminform.fields == form.Fields == form.FormFields21:09
ChrisWokay, I'll just stick with render for now ;-)21:09
ChrisWphiliKON: btw: I was very scared how close to meld3 I came having not even looked at it until I finished my 1st pass ;-)21:10
ChrisWI did point this out at EPC21:10
* philiKON misses your talk due to hangover21:10
ChrisWthe pipelines input was so I could do a plaintext parser and stop Guido's "I hate xml" whine ;-)21:11
ChrisWbut I _like_ the plaintext parser _a lot_ now, especially when generating email21:11
ChrisWthe output front was mainly for symetry, but having written the Email output renderer, I'm very glad I did21:11
mgedminooh, generating JavaScript from ZPT *is* a pain21:11
ChrisWthe filters idea is borrowed from Django - makes html_quote and translation very easy to do :-)21:12
ChrisWmgedmin: come to the twiddler side ;-)21:12
ChrisW(it's not that dark here)21:12
ChrisWit's all oss and I'm happy to mail .tgz's to anyone who's interested21:12
ChrisWthere's a raft of documentation21:13
ChrisWjust don't want torelease until I;'ve tidied a few things up...21:13
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J1mphiliKON: the new release files have been uploaded21:18
J1mI'll go ahead and publish them21:18
J1mIt looks like the files are publicly available.21:20
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* Theuni claps in the hands21:22
*** philiKON changes topic to "logs available at || paste code examples into or || 3.3c1 is out || bug day live at || FAQ at"21:23
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philiKONdang, srichter is gone21:37
philiKONi don't seem to have cheeseshop privileges after all21:37
ChrisWI should really look at the cheesshop sometime :_S21:38
philiKONit's a pathetic web app21:39
ChrisWthat's why I've been avoiding it ;-)21:39
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TheuniJ1m: Is it intentional that an adapter registration overwrites earlier registrations with the same triple of (required, provided, name)?22:57
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* Theuni humms22:58
ChrisWdo Zope 3 security proxies work with Zope 2 security yet?22:58
J1mChrisW: no22:58
ChrisWhurmph ;-)22:58
J1mTheuni: because it's simpler.22:58
J1mIf you want conflict detection, you can write that on top, as we do w zcml.22:59
Theunibut handlers don't work that way, right?22:59
J1mYou might as well ask why dictionary objects don't raise exceptions when you overwrite a key.22:59
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J1mHandlers never conflict, so, of course, they don't so conflict detection.23:00
J1mdon't do23:00
TheuniSo the reason is that we can't have two adapters with the same level of 'specificity' (is that a word?)?23:00
* mgedmin wants to ask why containers raise exceptions when you overwrite a key23:00
J1mI prefer to use the term "adapter type".23:01
J1mwhere type is the required and provided interfaces.23:01
Theuniah, ok. so we can't have two adapters with the same adapter type, becauset the CA wouldn't know what to do.23:01
Theuni(and the name?)23:01
J1mYou can't have 2 regular adapters of the same type and name.23:01
Theuniand why don't we conflict on registry-level?23:02
J1mmgedmin: containers are higher level.23:02
Theuniwhy don't we force people to delete first?23:02
J1mwhy should we?23:02
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J1mI don't remember atm what the registration UI does.23:03
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Theuniwell, the docstring for registerAdapter doesn't tell for example that a previous registration will be lost. i was kind of thinking registering an adapter and unregistering it again would get me the original state.23:03
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Theunii was extrapolating from handlers i think23:04
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Theunii think the comparison of adapter registrations with dictionary keys is not *that* obvious23:05
* J1m shrugs23:07
J1mI think it makes a lot of sense to keep registration machinery as simple as possible.23:07
* Theuni wonders what the goal of that shrug was23:07
J1mThat means the simplest or no policies.23:07
TheuniI agree on that.23:07
J1mIf you want to protect people, then do it at a higher level.23:08
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* Theuni needs to protect his functional test23:08
J1mFor example, I made a bare bones UI for registering things locally.23:08
philiKONwhere things is only utilities23:08
J1mI'm sure it can be improved in many ways.23:08
TheuniRight now I have a problem with test isolation again.23:08
* philiKON has adapters on his list ;)23:08
J1mphiliKON: well, yes23:08
TheuniOne test registers (and unregisters) an adapter, and the next test fails.23:09
Theunibecause the original adapter is gone23:09
J1ma functional test messes with the glbal registry at the next test's peril. :)23:09
J1mwhy not use a local registry.23:10
J1mThey are very easy to use now.23:10
Theunilooks like i'll do that23:10
philiKONftests should not modify the global registries IMO23:10
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TheuniphiliKON: tests should be isolated better23:10
J1mso write well-behaved tests.23:11
J1mThe testing infrastructure can only do so much.23:12
TheuniI know. Unfortunately I keep expecting the wrong things.23:12
* mgedmin dreams a "what's new/cool in zope 3" blog with short code examples23:16
* mgedmin should be forced to pay $1 for every wish/dream/whine he doesn't actually plan to implement23:20
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