IRC log of #zope3-dev for Friday, 2007-01-19

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zenwrylyhas anyone had a chance to look at or
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philiKONTheuni: waaa, i overslept09:59
philiKONTheuni: did i miss anything?09:59
Theuninot yet10:01
Theunimeeting is 08am UTC10:01
Theunithat's 9am CET10:01
Theunior not?10:01
timteit is10:02
philiKONso, like, now10:03
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Theunieverybody there?10:06
Theunisrichter: you there?10:07
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baijumTheuni, some meeting is going on here? topic ?10:11
Theunilaunchpad usage10:11
Theunijust some technical details on procedures to figure out with the launchpad team10:12
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Theunidoesn't look like the launchpad people are here yet10:12
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baijumoh.. ok10:12
baijumyesterday I talked with jamesh, he said he is waiting on some user account info to use as part of the import10:14
baijumsee here,
Theuniah. that's not exactly the agenda for the meeting.10:15
Theuniit's more about how to arrange the existing parts that people registered for zope in launchpad already and to get them into a uniform style10:16
Theunii guess jim would be a good person to ask about the user mapping10:16
Theuniat least he probably knows where to get the information from10:16
BjornTTheuni: which launchpad people are you expecting to be here?10:17
Theunimatthew revell10:18
BjornTTheuni: ok. i'll give him a call, maybe he mixed up the time or something (i assume you agreed with him to have the meeting now)10:23
* Theuni hopes that he didn't mix up the times himself10:26
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matthewrevellTheuni: Good morning - apologies for being late, I thought we were waiting for confirmation of the meeting time.10:29
Theunioh, sorry10:34
Theunilack of communication from my side maybe10:34
matthewrevellTheuni: Ah, I've just seen an email from you about the meeting time but I'd gone to bed by the time you sent it.10:34
Theunithat was a bit late, yeah. i was out of office the whole day yesterday.10:34
TheuniphiliKON: you still there?10:35
Theunisrichter: ping10:35
* Theuni does some catherding10:36
philiKONTheuni: yeah, i'm there10:36
Theunii guess stephan went to bed alread10:36
philiKONsorry, just got up, having a quick breakfast now10:36
Theuniwhich is a bit of a pitty, because he knows about the translation10:36
TheuniphiliKON: sure. you don't know by accident anything about the rosetta-usage of zope 3?10:37
philiKONi do10:37
philiKONi initiated the whole thing10:37
Theunilooks like we've got the right people together then10:37
philiKONso, what's the agenda?10:38
Theunifind out how to re-arragne the existing pieces that relate to the zope project in launchpad10:39
matthewrevellI'm just about to pull up my notes.10:39
Theunie.g. we have a "project" that is called "zope 3" and a product that is called "zope"10:39
Theuniwhich is inside out how it should be10:39
TheuniSo we want to discuss how we put it and how to avoid loosing existing data10:39
TheuniThose restructurings got to happen on the administrative level and can't be done by us ourselves ...10:40
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matthewrevellSo, our proposal is fairly simple: we rename the existing zope3 project in Launchpad to zope10:41
matthewrevelland rename the existing zope product to zope310:41
matthewrevellmaking it a product of the new zope project10:42
Theuniwhat's the issue with existing data in rosetta there?10:42
matthewrevelland we also create a zope2 product of the zope project.10:42
matthewrevellThis will affect Rosetta users in two ways:10:42
matthewrevell1. The URLs will change.10:42
matthewrevell2. If someone begins editing a translation minutes before we make the change, and then tries to save it after we've made the change, they'll lose their work because the product name will have changed and so Launchpad won't be able to save it.10:43
matthewrevellMy first question is: how active is Zope's use of Rosetta?10:43
matthewrevellphiliKON: Is the zope3-i18n mailing list actively used by everyone that uses Rosetta for Zope?10:46
philiKONmatthewrevell: not sure10:47
philiKONthe last posting is over six months old10:47
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philiKONis there a way to display a warning to people, say, 10 minutes before the transition?10:48
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philiKONi could imagine that people not actively reading zope3-dev, zope3-i18n, etc. will still contribute10:48
philiKONof course, the amount of work they could lose is limited, i guess10:48
matthewrevellphiliKON: Right. I'll ask BjornT: "is there a way to display a warning to people, say, 10 minutes before the transition?"10:48
matthewrevellphiliKON: I'd hate for people to lose work though, if we can avoid it.10:49
baijumwhat about posting this to zope-announce list ?10:50
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BjornTmatthewrevell, philiKON: no, it's not possible to do that atm10:50
matthewrevellBjornT: thanks10:50
BjornTalthough, i guess it shouldn't be that hard to look at the logs, and find a time when no one usually translate zope to minimize the risk of someone loosing their work10:51
matthewrevellphiliKON: If you could suggest places in which we can make an announcement, giving two or three day's notice, and then again on the day itself, that would be really helpful.10:51
matthewrevellBjornT: Would that be one for Carlos on Danilo?10:52
philiKONzope3-dev, zope3-users would be best, i'd say10:52
matthewrevellphiliKON: Thanks.10:52
philiKONnow, about the renaming.10:53
philiKONthe translations are already in a 'zope' product10:53
BjornTmatthewrevell: too look at the logs? anyone could do that, maybe matsubara for example.10:53
matthewrevellBjornT: Okay, thanks, I'll mail him after this meeting.10:53
philiKONperhaps it's because i just woke up, but i'm still not entirely getting the agenda...10:54
philiKONah, wait10:54
philiKONwe want to rename 'zope' to 'zope3'10:54
matthewrevellIdeally, we want to have a zope project in Launchpad, which has zope3 and zope2 projects.10:55
matthewrevellAt the moment, we have a zope3 project and an unrelated zope product.10:55
philiKONi see. that's indeed backwards, like Theuni said10:55
matthewrevellIt's just housekeeping really, but it will break any links that people have to exisitng work10:55
philiKONit's entirely clear now10:55
matthewrevellCool :)10:55
philiKONok, anything else we need to discuss? Theuni ?10:56
matthewrevellSo, do you guys think that, so long as we announce it on the mailing lists, that changing the project and product names will be okay?10:58
philiKONi would think so10:58
matthewrevellWe want to give as much  notice as possible10:58
Theuniyup. i agree.10:58
Theunimatthewrevell: one question about blueprint10:59
matthewrevellTheuni: Yeah?10:59
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Theuniis it intended to host/keep the actual specifications somewhere else and only track the metadata in blueprint?10:59
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matthewrevellTheuni: Yes. Each blueprint links out to a wiki page, or similar, with the full details of the specification.11:00
philiKONTheuni: in the long term, are we going to move bugs to launchpad as well?11:00
matthewrevellTheuni: What are you guys planning for blueprints?11:01
TheuniphiliKON: that's what we're doing right now!11:01
Theunimatthewrevell: using it? :)11:02
matthewrevellTheuni: Cool :)11:02
Theunimatthewrevell: i was playing aroudn with it a bit and was trying to find out how to use it efficiently.11:02
Theuniwe do have a wiki to write the specs in11:02
philiKONTheuni: uh, ok11:02
* Theuni wonders whether philiKON missed the discussion over the last months :)11:02
philiKONi didn't11:02
philiKONi just didn't realize we decided11:02
Theunimatthewrevell: i was just wondering how to get all the existing specs in there ...11:03
Theunimaybe we don't need to put in the old ones11:03
philiKONi thought SteveA had alread imported them into the development setup once11:03
matthewrevellTheuni: I think James Henstridge may be able to help with that.11:03
TheuniphiliKON: yup. he never responded how he did that. :)11:03
matthewrevellTheuni: I'll ask him to mail you to discuss the specifics.11:04
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matthewrevellI've asked SteveA to join us to discuss the specs11:05
matthewrevelland how to import existing specs into the Blueprint Tracker.11:05
philiKONTheuni: so, the first step is to do te project/product housekeeping. are any specific steps to be planned yet about the collector transition then?11:05
TheuniphiliKON: let me get the mail archive for you11:06
matthewrevellSteveA: I'll email James to ask him to discuss importing the existing Zope3 specs into the Blueprint Tracker, but I was wondering if you'd be able to give an overview of how it might happen.11:06
SteveAhe already did so on the demo site11:06
TheuniphiliKON: ... too lazy. here's the story: we're going to move the zope 3 collector to the launchpad bug tracker and canonical does the migration for us.11:06
SteveAbut, perhaps not in the appropriate product11:06
philiKONTheuni: great11:07
SteveAhow it works approximately is that jamesh has a screen-scraper11:07
TheuniSteveA: =)11:07
SteveAto get what metadata is available from the proposals on the wiki11:07
SteveAand register them as blueprints, with appropriate assignees, etc.11:07
SteveAthen, when we're all happy with the import on the demo system, he does it for real11:07
Theunisick :)11:07
SteveAand some people go through all the specs11:07
SteveAremoving all the metadata from the top11:08
SteveAand replacing it with the appropriate launchpad backlink11:08
Theunisounds good11:08
SteveAthen it is done11:08
SteveAif the wiki has email subscriptions11:08
SteveAwe may be able to subscribe launchpad to that11:08
Theuniit does11:08
SteveAso that subscribers to the specs in launchpad get notified of changes to the wiki specs11:08
SteveAthat might require some extra work, because it works with moin now11:09
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SteveAand I don't know if it works with zope wikis11:09
SteveAmatthewrevell: are you aware of this feature?11:09
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matthewrevellSteveA: Moin updating the Blueprint Tracker?11:09
matthewrevellSteveA: I'm aware of it.11:10
BjornTSteveA, matthewrevell: notifications should work as long as the URL to the actual wiki page being modified is included in the notification.11:13
Theuniwhat can the notification do? notice that the spec changed, what happens then?11:14
Theunidoes it notice new specs as well?11:14
SteveAtell people subscribed to the spec in launchpad11:14
SteveAthat it changed11:14
philiKONTheuni: do you guys still need me for anything? otherwise i'd like to attend an uni meeting...11:14
SteveAso, people need to subscribe just in launchpad11:14
SteveAnot on the wikis11:14
TheuniphiliKON: i guess we're ok, thanks for attending.11:14
philiKONTheuni: sorry i wasn't very helpful :/11:14
SteveAphiliKON: will you be at pycon?11:14
matthewrevellphiliKON: Thanks for your input.11:14
matthewrevellphiliKON: You were helpful :)11:14
philiKONSteveA: unfortunately not11:15
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matthewrevellSteveA: Thanks for explaining the situation with the Blueprint Tracker.11:20
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matthewrevellTheuni: I'll email James and cc you, to ask him to let us know how his test import went.11:20
matthewrevellTo confirm, you're guys are happy for us to go ahead with the product and project renames, and I'll post to the relevant Zope 3 mailing lists to warn translators of the possible fall-out.11:21
matthewrevellExcellent. Thanks very much for your time, everyone. I shall now mail each of you and James.11:23
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zenwrylyhas anyone had a chance to look at or
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* Theuni detects a drawback on the eggification19:42
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ignasTheuni: what kind of ?19:44
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philiKONTheuni: would you like to share it with us? ;)19:45
Theunisure :)19:45
TheuniThe buildbot doesn't detect changes that get pulled in via externals anymore.19:45
TheuniSo we don't get the "whole enchilada" integration test with all things pulled together automatically when someone checks in19:46
philiKONhmmm.. true19:46
philiKONthat just means we need to change the buildout trigger19:46
philiKONmake it smarter19:46
ignasZope can't have eggs anyway ;)19:47
ignasyou should use caviar ;)19:48
Theunired or black?19:49
ignasi think more like yellow ;)19:49
TheuniphiliKON: or we have to switch to something time-based, which is probably easer/better19:51
Theunione trunk checkout fails for me, the other doesn't.19:52
Theunihmm. make clean helped.19:54
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d2mSteveA: has email subscriptions (both for creation/deletion and modification), there is also a rss2.0 feed for created and modified pages (i could tailor it to your needs if you want to)19:59
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SteveAd2m: the email subscription would be fine20:14
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d2mSteveA: , you can subscribe to the whole wiki, with/without edit notification, or to (any number of) single pages only20:31
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SteveAd2m: thanks, I'll pass that on to jamesh20:38
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zenwrylyCan I get anyone to look at or  I have commit priveleges but have only committed a couple of times before and would love to get word from someone before committing.21:42
benji_zenwryly: it seems reasonable to me, but I'm far from an expert on that corner of the world21:43
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zenwrylybenji: there is one test that fails but it's intentionally exposing something I think might be broken.21:44
zenwrylybenji: as in before I got there :)21:44
benjieven if the test exposes a real bug, checking in a failing test is generally discouraged21:45
zenwrylyok, well I can comment it out21:45
zenwrylybut I'd like to know how to raise attention to it21:46
benjichecking in commented out code/tests is generally dicouraged :)21:46
zenwrylywell I can just remove it and pretend there isn't a problem :)21:46
benjijust attach the patch to create the failing test to an issue21:46
benji(perhaps a new issue for this possible bug)21:46
zenwrylyI'll do that21:46
zenwrylythanks for responding21:47
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zenwrylybenji: oh, what about merging the changes into the 3.3 branch?21:52
benjihmm, that's less clear...21:52
zenwrylyyeah, my project is a plone 3.0 project, which is using zope 2.10 which includes 3.321:53
benjithis is a pretty dark corner and very few people use that code; I'm not sure if that means we should our should not put the fix in 3.321:53
benjiso you're in effect managing your own 3.3 fork (so you get this fix)?21:54
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zenwrylywell, I wouldn't call it a fork until I find out that I can't commit it where I need it.  Right now, it's just uncommitted changes.21:55
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zenwrylybenji: but that's the fear, yet21:55
benjiright, but you'll have to keep using the branch, IOW, there will be no released version with the fixes you need; if that's OK, then I don't see any problem backporting the fix21:56
zenwrylyah, excellent21:57
zenwrylyyeah, we're already using the branch21:57
zenwrylyplone 3.0 has off and on depended on the 2.10 svn branch21:57
zenwrylywell off I go21:58
zenwrylythanks again21:58
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