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| zenwryly | has anyone had a chance to look at http://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope3-dev/747 or http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-dev/2007-January/021571.html? | 02:16 |
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| Theuni | *yawn | 09:49 |
| Theuni | morning | 09:49 |
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| philiKON | Theuni: waaa, i overslept | 09:59 |
| philiKON | Theuni: did i miss anything? | 09:59 |
| Theuni | not yet | 10:01 |
| Theuni | meeting is 08am UTC | 10:01 |
| Theuni | that's 9am CET | 10:01 |
| Theuni | or not? | 10:01 |
| timte | it is | 10:02 |
| philiKON | so, like, now | 10:03 |
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| Theuni | everybody there? | 10:06 |
| Theuni | srichter: you there? | 10:07 |
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| baijum | Theuni, some meeting is going on here? topic ? | 10:11 |
| Theuni | launchpad usage | 10:11 |
| Theuni | just some technical details on procedures to figure out with the launchpad team | 10:12 |
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| Theuni | doesn't look like the launchpad people are here yet | 10:12 |
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| baijum | oh.. ok | 10:12 |
| baijum | yesterday I talked with jamesh, he said he is waiting on some user account info to use as part of the import | 10:14 |
| baijum | see here, http://zope3.pov.lt/irclogs/%23zope3-dev.2007-01-18.log.html | 10:14 |
| Theuni | ah. that's not exactly the agenda for the meeting. | 10:15 |
| Theuni | it's more about how to arrange the existing parts that people registered for zope in launchpad already and to get them into a uniform style | 10:16 |
| Theuni | i guess jim would be a good person to ask about the user mapping | 10:16 |
| Theuni | at least he probably knows where to get the information from | 10:16 |
| BjornT | Theuni: which launchpad people are you expecting to be here? | 10:17 |
| Theuni | matthew revell | 10:18 |
| BjornT | Theuni: ok. i'll give him a call, maybe he mixed up the time or something (i assume you agreed with him to have the meeting now) | 10:23 |
| Theuni | :) | 10:25 |
| * Theuni hopes that he didn't mix up the times himself | 10:26 | |
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| matthewrevell | Theuni: Good morning - apologies for being late, I thought we were waiting for confirmation of the meeting time. | 10:29 |
| Theuni | oh, sorry | 10:34 |
| Theuni | lack of communication from my side maybe | 10:34 |
| matthewrevell | Theuni: Ah, I've just seen an email from you about the meeting time but I'd gone to bed by the time you sent it. | 10:34 |
| Theuni | ah | 10:34 |
| Theuni | that was a bit late, yeah. i was out of office the whole day yesterday. | 10:34 |
| Theuni | philiKON: you still there? | 10:35 |
| Theuni | srichter: ping | 10:35 |
| * Theuni does some catherding | 10:36 | |
| philiKON | Theuni: yeah, i'm there | 10:36 |
| Theuni | great | 10:36 |
| Theuni | i guess stephan went to bed alread | 10:36 |
| Theuni | y | 10:36 |
| philiKON | sorry, just got up, having a quick breakfast now | 10:36 |
| Theuni | which is a bit of a pitty, because he knows about the translation | 10:36 |
| Theuni | philiKON: sure. you don't know by accident anything about the rosetta-usage of zope 3? | 10:37 |
| philiKON | i do | 10:37 |
| philiKON | i initiated the whole thing | 10:37 |
| Theuni | great | 10:37 |
| Theuni | hooray | 10:37 |
| matthewrevell | :) | 10:37 |
| Theuni | looks like we've got the right people together then | 10:37 |
| philiKON | so, what's the agenda? | 10:38 |
| Theuni | find out how to re-arragne the existing pieces that relate to the zope project in launchpad | 10:39 |
| matthewrevell | I'm just about to pull up my notes. | 10:39 |
| Theuni | e.g. we have a "project" that is called "zope 3" and a product that is called "zope" | 10:39 |
| Theuni | which is inside out how it should be | 10:39 |
| Theuni | So we want to discuss how we put it and how to avoid loosing existing data | 10:39 |
| Theuni | Those restructurings got to happen on the administrative level and can't be done by us ourselves ... | 10:40 |
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| matthewrevell | So, our proposal is fairly simple: we rename the existing zope3 project in Launchpad to zope | 10:41 |
| matthewrevell | and rename the existing zope product to zope3 | 10:41 |
| matthewrevell | making it a product of the new zope project | 10:42 |
| Theuni | right | 10:42 |
| Theuni | what's the issue with existing data in rosetta there? | 10:42 |
| matthewrevell | and we also create a zope2 product of the zope project. | 10:42 |
| matthewrevell | This will affect Rosetta users in two ways: | 10:42 |
| matthewrevell | 1. The URLs will change. | 10:42 |
| matthewrevell | 2. If someone begins editing a translation minutes before we make the change, and then tries to save it after we've made the change, they'll lose their work because the product name will have changed and so Launchpad won't be able to save it. | 10:43 |
| matthewrevell | My first question is: how active is Zope's use of Rosetta? | 10:43 |
| matthewrevell | philiKON: Is the zope3-i18n mailing list actively used by everyone that uses Rosetta for Zope? | 10:46 |
| philiKON | matthewrevell: not sure | 10:47 |
| philiKON | the last posting is over six months old | 10:47 |
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| philiKON | is there a way to display a warning to people, say, 10 minutes before the transition? | 10:48 |
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| philiKON | i could imagine that people not actively reading zope3-dev, zope3-i18n, etc. will still contribute | 10:48 |
| philiKON | of course, the amount of work they could lose is limited, i guess | 10:48 |
| matthewrevell | philiKON: Right. I'll ask BjornT: "is there a way to display a warning to people, say, 10 minutes before the transition?" | 10:48 |
| matthewrevell | philiKON: I'd hate for people to lose work though, if we can avoid it. | 10:49 |
| philiKON | yeah | 10:49 |
| baijum | what about posting this to zope-announce list ? | 10:50 |
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| BjornT | matthewrevell, philiKON: no, it's not possible to do that atm | 10:50 |
| matthewrevell | BjornT: thanks | 10:50 |
| BjornT | although, i guess it shouldn't be that hard to look at the logs, and find a time when no one usually translate zope to minimize the risk of someone loosing their work | 10:51 |
| matthewrevell | philiKON: If you could suggest places in which we can make an announcement, giving two or three day's notice, and then again on the day itself, that would be really helpful. | 10:51 |
| matthewrevell | BjornT: Would that be one for Carlos on Danilo? | 10:52 |
| matthewrevell | s/on/or | 10:52 |
| philiKON | zope3-dev, zope3-users would be best, i'd say | 10:52 |
| matthewrevell | philiKON: Thanks. | 10:52 |
| philiKON | now, about the renaming. | 10:53 |
| philiKON | the translations are already in a 'zope' product | 10:53 |
| BjornT | matthewrevell: too look at the logs? anyone could do that, maybe matsubara for example. | 10:53 |
| matthewrevell | BjornT: Okay, thanks, I'll mail him after this meeting. | 10:53 |
| philiKON | perhaps it's because i just woke up, but i'm still not entirely getting the agenda... | 10:54 |
| philiKON | ah, wait | 10:54 |
| philiKON | we want to rename 'zope' to 'zope3' | 10:54 |
| philiKON | hmm | 10:54 |
| matthewrevell | Ideally, we want to have a zope project in Launchpad, which has zope3 and zope2 projects. | 10:55 |
| philiKON | gotcha | 10:55 |
| matthewrevell | At the moment, we have a zope3 project and an unrelated zope product. | 10:55 |
| philiKON | i see. that's indeed backwards, like Theuni said | 10:55 |
| matthewrevell | It's just housekeeping really, but it will break any links that people have to exisitng work | 10:55 |
| philiKON | yup | 10:55 |
| philiKON | it's entirely clear now | 10:55 |
| matthewrevell | Cool :) | 10:55 |
| philiKON | ok, anything else we need to discuss? Theuni ? | 10:56 |
| matthewrevell | So, do you guys think that, so long as we announce it on the mailing lists, that changing the project and product names will be okay? | 10:58 |
| philiKON | i would think so | 10:58 |
| matthewrevell | We want to give as much notice as possible | 10:58 |
| Theuni | yup. i agree. | 10:58 |
| Theuni | matthewrevell: one question about blueprint | 10:59 |
| matthewrevell | Theuni: Yeah? | 10:59 |
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| Theuni | is it intended to host/keep the actual specifications somewhere else and only track the metadata in blueprint? | 10:59 |
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| matthewrevell | Theuni: Yes. Each blueprint links out to a wiki page, or similar, with the full details of the specification. | 11:00 |
| Theuni | ok | 11:00 |
| philiKON | Theuni: in the long term, are we going to move bugs to launchpad as well? | 11:00 |
| matthewrevell | Theuni: What are you guys planning for blueprints? | 11:01 |
| Theuni | philiKON: that's what we're doing right now! | 11:01 |
| Theuni | matthewrevell: using it? :) | 11:02 |
| matthewrevell | Theuni: Cool :) | 11:02 |
| Theuni | matthewrevell: i was playing aroudn with it a bit and was trying to find out how to use it efficiently. | 11:02 |
| Theuni | we do have a wiki to write the specs in | 11:02 |
| philiKON | Theuni: uh, ok | 11:02 |
| * Theuni wonders whether philiKON missed the discussion over the last months :) | 11:02 | |
| philiKON | i didn't | 11:02 |
| philiKON | i just didn't realize we decided | 11:02 |
| philiKON | phone | 11:02 |
| Theuni | matthewrevell: i was just wondering how to get all the existing specs in there ... | 11:03 |
| philiKON | back | 11:03 |
| Theuni | maybe we don't need to put in the old ones | 11:03 |
| philiKON | i thought SteveA had alread imported them into the development setup once | 11:03 |
| matthewrevell | Theuni: I think James Henstridge may be able to help with that. | 11:03 |
| Theuni | ok | 11:03 |
| Theuni | philiKON: yup. he never responded how he did that. :) | 11:03 |
| matthewrevell | Theuni: I'll ask him to mail you to discuss the specifics. | 11:04 |
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| matthewrevell | I've asked SteveA to join us to discuss the specs | 11:05 |
| matthewrevell | and how to import existing specs into the Blueprint Tracker. | 11:05 |
| Theuni | k | 11:05 |
| philiKON | Theuni: so, the first step is to do te project/product housekeeping. are any specific steps to be planned yet about the collector transition then? | 11:05 |
| SteveA | hi | 11:06 |
| Theuni | philiKON: let me get the mail archive for you | 11:06 |
| matthewrevell | SteveA: I'll email James to ask him to discuss importing the existing Zope3 specs into the Blueprint Tracker, but I was wondering if you'd be able to give an overview of how it might happen. | 11:06 |
| SteveA | well | 11:06 |
| SteveA | he already did so on the demo site | 11:06 |
| Theuni | philiKON: ... too lazy. here's the story: we're going to move the zope 3 collector to the launchpad bug tracker and canonical does the migration for us. | 11:06 |
| SteveA | but, perhaps not in the appropriate product | 11:06 |
| philiKON | Theuni: great | 11:07 |
| SteveA | how it works approximately is that jamesh has a screen-scraper | 11:07 |
| Theuni | SteveA: =) | 11:07 |
| SteveA | to get what metadata is available from the proposals on the wiki | 11:07 |
| SteveA | and register them as blueprints, with appropriate assignees, etc. | 11:07 |
| SteveA | then, when we're all happy with the import on the demo system, he does it for real | 11:07 |
| Theuni | sick :) | 11:07 |
| SteveA | and some people go through all the specs | 11:07 |
| SteveA | removing all the metadata from the top | 11:08 |
| SteveA | and replacing it with the appropriate launchpad backlink | 11:08 |
| Theuni | sounds good | 11:08 |
| SteveA | then it is done | 11:08 |
| SteveA | if the wiki has email subscriptions | 11:08 |
| SteveA | we may be able to subscribe launchpad to that | 11:08 |
| Theuni | it does | 11:08 |
| SteveA | so that subscribers to the specs in launchpad get notified of changes to the wiki specs | 11:08 |
| SteveA | that might require some extra work, because it works with moin now | 11:09 |
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| SteveA | and I don't know if it works with zope wikis | 11:09 |
| SteveA | matthewrevell: are you aware of this feature? | 11:09 |
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| matthewrevell | SteveA: Moin updating the Blueprint Tracker? | 11:09 |
| matthewrevell | SteveA: I'm aware of it. | 11:10 |
| BjornT | SteveA, matthewrevell: notifications should work as long as the URL to the actual wiki page being modified is included in the notification. | 11:13 |
| Theuni | what can the notification do? notice that the spec changed, what happens then? | 11:14 |
| Theuni | does it notice new specs as well? | 11:14 |
| SteveA | tell people subscribed to the spec in launchpad | 11:14 |
| SteveA | that it changed | 11:14 |
| philiKON | Theuni: do you guys still need me for anything? otherwise i'd like to attend an uni meeting... | 11:14 |
| SteveA | so, people need to subscribe just in launchpad | 11:14 |
| SteveA | not on the wikis | 11:14 |
| Theuni | philiKON: i guess we're ok, thanks for attending. | 11:14 |
| philiKON | Theuni: sorry i wasn't very helpful :/ | 11:14 |
| SteveA | philiKON: will you be at pycon? | 11:14 |
| matthewrevell | philiKON: Thanks for your input. | 11:14 |
| matthewrevell | philiKON: You were helpful :) | 11:14 |
| philiKON | SteveA: unfortunately not | 11:15 |
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| matthewrevell | SteveA: Thanks for explaining the situation with the Blueprint Tracker. | 11:20 |
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| matthewrevell | Theuni: I'll email James and cc you, to ask him to let us know how his test import went. | 11:20 |
| matthewrevell | To confirm, you're guys are happy for us to go ahead with the product and project renames, and I'll post to the relevant Zope 3 mailing lists to warn translators of the possible fall-out. | 11:21 |
| Theuni | yup | 11:22 |
| Theuni | thanks! | 11:22 |
| matthewrevell | Excellent. Thanks very much for your time, everyone. I shall now mail each of you and James. | 11:23 |
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| zenwryly | has anyone had a chance to look at http://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope3-dev/747 or http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-dev/2007-January/021571.html? | 17:56 |
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| Theuni | *eeeek | 19:42 |
| * Theuni detects a drawback on the eggification | 19:42 | |
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| ignas | Theuni: what kind of ? | 19:44 |
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| philiKON | Theuni: would you like to share it with us? ;) | 19:45 |
| Theuni | sure :) | 19:45 |
| Theuni | The buildbot doesn't detect changes that get pulled in via externals anymore. | 19:45 |
| Theuni | So we don't get the "whole enchilada" integration test with all things pulled together automatically when someone checks in | 19:46 |
| philiKON | hmmm.. true | 19:46 |
| philiKON | that just means we need to change the buildout trigger | 19:46 |
| philiKON | make it smarter | 19:46 |
| ignas | Zope can't have eggs anyway ;) | 19:47 |
| ignas | you should use caviar ;) | 19:48 |
| Theuni | red or black? | 19:49 |
| ignas | i think more like yellow ;) | 19:49 |
| Theuni | yikes | 19:49 |
| Theuni | philiKON: or we have to switch to something time-based, which is probably easer/better | 19:51 |
| philiKON | possibly | 19:51 |
| philiKON | yeah | 19:51 |
| Theuni | darn | 19:51 |
| Theuni | one trunk checkout fails for me, the other doesn't. | 19:52 |
| Theuni | booooh! | 19:52 |
| Theuni | hmm. make clean helped. | 19:54 |
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| d2m | SteveA: wiki.zope.org has email subscriptions (both for creation/deletion and modification), there is also a rss2.0 feed for created and modified pages (i could tailor it to your needs if you want to) | 19:59 |
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| SteveA | d2m: the email subscription would be fine | 20:14 |
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| d2m | SteveA: http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/FrontPage/subscribeform , you can subscribe to the whole wiki, with/without edit notification, or to (any number of) single pages only | 20:31 |
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| ugmontes | list | 20:33 |
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| SteveA | d2m: thanks, I'll pass that on to jamesh | 20:38 |
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| zenwryly | Can I get anyone to look at http://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope3-dev/747 or http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-dev/2007-January/021571.html? I have commit priveleges but have only committed a couple of times before and would love to get word from someone before committing. | 21:42 |
| benji_ | zenwryly: it seems reasonable to me, but I'm far from an expert on that corner of the world | 21:43 |
| *** benji_ is now known as benji | 21:43 | |
| zenwryly | benji: there is one test that fails but it's intentionally exposing something I think might be broken. | 21:44 |
| zenwryly | benji: as in before I got there :) | 21:44 |
| benji | even if the test exposes a real bug, checking in a failing test is generally discouraged | 21:45 |
| zenwryly | ok, well I can comment it out | 21:45 |
| zenwryly | but I'd like to know how to raise attention to it | 21:46 |
| benji | checking in commented out code/tests is generally dicouraged :) | 21:46 |
| zenwryly | well I can just remove it and pretend there isn't a problem :) | 21:46 |
| benji | just attach the patch to create the failing test to an issue | 21:46 |
| benji | (perhaps a new issue for this possible bug) | 21:46 |
| zenwryly | ok | 21:46 |
| zenwryly | I'll do that | 21:46 |
| zenwryly | thanks for responding | 21:47 |
| benji | np | 21:47 |
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| zenwryly | benji: oh, what about merging the changes into the 3.3 branch? | 21:52 |
| benji | hmm, that's less clear... | 21:52 |
| zenwryly | yeah, my project is a plone 3.0 project, which is using zope 2.10 which includes 3.3 | 21:53 |
| benji | this is a pretty dark corner and very few people use that code; I'm not sure if that means we should our should not put the fix in 3.3 | 21:53 |
| benji | so you're in effect managing your own 3.3 fork (so you get this fix)? | 21:54 |
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| zenwryly | well, I wouldn't call it a fork until I find out that I can't commit it where I need it. Right now, it's just uncommitted changes. | 21:55 |
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| zenwryly | benji: but that's the fear, yet | 21:55 |
| zenwryly | yes | 21:55 |
| benji | right, but you'll have to keep using the branch, IOW, there will be no released version with the fixes you need; if that's OK, then I don't see any problem backporting the fix | 21:56 |
| zenwryly | ah, excellent | 21:57 |
| zenwryly | yeah, we're already using the branch | 21:57 |
| zenwryly | plone 3.0 has off and on depended on the 2.10 svn branch | 21:57 |
| zenwryly | well off I go | 21:58 |
| zenwryly | thanks again | 21:58 |
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