IRC log of #zope3-dev for Wednesday, 2007-02-28

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philiKONTheuni: zpkgtools00:19
Theunijanz woanders00:22
Theunikann ich glaube ich ohne .in rueberziehen00:24
Theunialles wird einfacher00:24
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radixTheuni: Twisted 2.5!00:38
* Theuni rushes00:40
Theuni*Scratching my head00:41
radixTheuni: Zope is using Twisted 2.5 now, in its svn:externals00:42
radixand it _works_00:42
radixdid you do that?00:42
radixregardless, I'm super happy, because I can actually use my Twisted trunk now without switching my PYTHONPATH back and forth every time I use zope :)00:42
philiKONradix: mkerrin did00:43
philiKONand yes, it's supercool00:43
radixhooray mkerrin :-)00:43
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Theuniactually i wonder00:45
Theuniwhen did that happen?00:45
philiKONi wa wa wa wa wonder00:45
philiKONTheuni: recently00:45
Theuniwhat is "recently"?00:45
Theunii'm on a sprint.00:45
Theunirecentlyl might mean in hte last 3 minutes.00:45
philiKONdec 12 200600:46
Theuninot very recently00:47
philiKONwhatever :)00:47
Theunitoday i looked at the externals in the trunk and they were pointing to 2.100:47
Theunitwisted        -r 15340 svn://
Theunithats what my trunk says00:47
philiKONsvn up ?00:47
Theunisince december? ;)00:48
* Theuni tries00:48
philiKONmine says00:48
philiKONtwisted        svn://
Theunii really didn't update since december00:48
philiKONin your face00:48
philiKONso how far is zope3.buildout?00:49
Theunislowly coming00:49
Theuniit's a lot of work for zope 3.400:49
Theunii would upload the proposal if the wiki wasn't down00:49
Theunii've gotta find the twisted guys00:50
Theuniradix: are you the one i've been sitting together with this morning?00:50
Theunii can't associate your faces with your nicknames ...00:50
radixTheuni: yes, I'm Chris Armstrong :)00:51
Theuniare you still at the hotel?00:51
radixI'm at a nearby hotel... I'll probably be back later00:52
Theunithan i don't have to tell you that we're not talking about twisted 2.1 anymore00:52
Theunithat probably solves the spurious errors of this morning00:52
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WebMavenTheuni: I have a list of un-buildoutified packages now.02:26
Theuniis it very long?02:27
WebMavenI was wondering if you could help prioritize them.02:27
WebMavenalso, should I do this work on a branch?02:28
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Theunihmm. no. no need to imho. i'll come over in a minute.02:32
WebMavenTheuni: ok, thanks02:37
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WebMavenTheuni: ayt?02:54
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WebMavenhello philiKON04:08
philiKONhi WebMaven04:08
WebMavenphiliKON: do you understand how to use zc.buildout?04:09
philiKONi would say so04:09
WebMavenphiliKON: I'm trying to buildoutify a few things in svn04:09
WebMavenJim helped me buildoutify z3c.zalchemy, but he had to leave.04:10
WebMavenso, I'm now working on zope.component04:10
philiKONare you at pycon then?04:11
WebMavenunfortunately, I'm blocked because is down04:11
WebMavenso, ZODB3 egg can't be found.04:11
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philiKONwhat has that go to do with the wiki?04:11
WebMavenI fixed this earlier by installing the egg locally from, but now that stopped working.04:12
WebMavenOh, well, cheeseshop points to the wiki as the source of the egg04:12
WebMavenso, installing locally and using buildout -N worked earlier, but now it doesn't and it's failing on the download again.04:13
philiKONyou mean buildout -o right?04:14
WebMavenno, -N04:14
WebMaventhat's what Jim told me to use.04:14
philiKONwhat's -N ?04:14
philiKON-o is offline04:14
WebMavendon't check for new04:14
WebMavenHmm. offline would work, except there are others that *do* need to be downloaded.04:15
philiKONwell, i don't know what to do04:15
philiKONbut what i do know is that the dependency on the wiki should be changed04:16
philiKONnot only because has had problems recently04:16
WebMavenyeah, it's a security problem.04:16
philiKONand it's just nothte place for releases04:16
philiKONi would personally welcome a simple source distro at the cheeseshop, perhaps an egg04:17
WebMavenI just wish I new why it stopped working.04:18
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WebMavenok, back04:21
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WebMavenok, Christian and Andreas are taking me for beer. I think I'm done for tonight.04:32
philiKONhave fun04:46
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Airwolf-err, is down ? i can't access it since 8hrs ago06:16
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d2mwhy is the testrunner running with the --profile option  ? i did not set it11:10
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d2meven better, zope.testing disappeared from the trunk - whats going on ?11:25
d2mfound it, sorry for the noise11:27
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ChrisWBTrees keep their keys and values, ordered, right?17:19
mgedminthe keys are ordered, yes17:21
ChrisWokay, but if you do somebtree.values(), you'll get the same order as the keys, right?17:22
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WebMaven_hi J1m17:26
J1mHi WebMaven_17:26
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ChrisWalso, I think I'm right in saying .keys() of a btree will always get you a sorted result, but what the 'right' way to get the reversed sorting order of hte keys?17:28
WebMavenJ1m: I'm starting to make progress with the buildoutification. Christian prioritized the list. I just checked in the changes to zope.component.17:28
J1mWebMaven, could you ask Theuni to look at irc? (assuming you are still at PyCon)17:28
J1mWebMaven, what changes?17:29
WebMavenyes, we both are here. He stepped away for a moment.17:29
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WebMavenJ1m: the changes were just the addition of buildout.cfg and, but we also resolved a missing dependency in
J1mChrisW, reversed(list(b.keys()))17:30
J1mWebMaven, zope.component already had those.17:30
J1mAre you sure you meant zope.componet?17:30
WebMavenie. zope.component tests wouldn't run because they needed zope.location, which was supposed to be a dependency of zope.security17:30
ChrisWJ1m, thanks, where do I import reversed from?17:31
J1mChrisW, It is a builtin17:31
ChrisWalso, would that be expensive for a very large btree?17:31
J1mChrisW, probably17:31
ChrisWis there a quick way? how does the catalog's reverse sorting work?17:31
WebMavenJ1m: did I answer your Q?17:32
J1mOh crap. I hadn't checked in buildout.cfg for zope.component.17:32
J1mWebMaven, yes17:33
mgedminChrisW: IIRC oobtree.keys() returns some object that acts like a list (somewhat like xrange)17:33
mgedminI wonder if indexing it in reverse order would be efficient17:33
TheuniJ1m: did you get my privmsg? i'm not sure whether i'm logged in on the irc network.17:34
J1mmgedmin, yes, but reverse iteration on it would be fairly slow, so you wouldn't want to give it to reverse directly.17:34
mgedminTheuni: no17:34
Theunimgedmin: ?17:34
mgedminoops, sorry, I thought you asked me whether I got your privmsg :)17:34
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mgedminforgot my nick wasn't J1m :)17:35
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ChrisWhmm, so reversed(b.keys()) would be slower that reversed(list(b.keys()))?17:37
* mgedmin suggests benchmarking17:38
ChrisWhmm, okay, how would you code your reverse iteration idea?17:39
* mgedmin does not know17:40
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* ChrisW wonders how catalog does this but remembers getting lost when he looked :-(17:43
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radixI guess I was slightly confused about directlyProvides the other day18:23
radixneither of interface or component provides some way to say "adapt *this* object to an interface with this adapter"?18:24
Theuniit should18:24
Theunioh no right18:25
Theuniyou can say: "adapt this *kind* of object (class/interface) to an interface with this adapter"18:25
radixI may just implement an adapter hook for that, which uses a weakkey dictionary or something18:26
radixIt would make my unit tests a _lot_ cleaner18:26
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WebMavenradix: you can say this *particular* object instance provides this particular marker interface, and then adapt that.18:36
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radixWebMaven: and dynamically generate the marker-interface?18:39
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WebMavenradix: I suppose you could do that... but that is deeper magic than I am comfortable with. I was just thinking you would add it to the doctest.18:41
WebMavenAnd actually, I'm only 80% sure that would work.18:42
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radixWebMaven: right so I still think the simplest way to do it would be with an adapter hook18:47
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radixcrap, multi-adapters don't seem to go through adapter_hooks :(20:53
J1mradix, You can't do multi-adapter lookup with interface __call__.20:58
J1mso of course, they don't go through adapter_hooks20:59
J1mTheuni, please please please don't upload linux platform-dependent eggs.20:59
radixJ1m: yeah, I've been fighting with the desire for a way to easily override what getMultiAdapter((specificIntsance, specificInstance), IFoo) does, from unit tests21:01
radixwithout messing around with global state21:01
radix*too* much, anyway21:02
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mgedminradix: why do you need that?21:04
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philiKONradix: why don't you want ot mess around with global state?21:16
philiKONshouldn't be a problem with proper setup and teardown21:16
philiKONwe do it all the time in unit tests21:16
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TheuniJ1m: hmm. k.21:27
Theuniwill stop doing that.21:27
Theuniwhat's the problem with those?21:27
J1mThey reflect individual machine settings.21:29
J1mThey are *not* portable.21:30
J1mFor example, your python us using UCS421:30
J1mso now my egs repository is polluted with eggs I can't use! :(21:30
J1mBad bad bad21:30
J1mDoes anyone know hoe to change a Launchpad feature status?21:31
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radixphiliKON: because it's a PITA to clean up21:34
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radixphiliKON: it's less "unity"21:34
philiKONok, perhaps it's less unity21:35
philiKONbut how else are you going to test something that depends on global state21:36
philiKONthe CA happens to depend on it21:36
radixphiliKON: worse in this case is that the global state is associated with something more global than I want21:36
philiKONi dont' get that :)21:36
philiKONbut, as much as the learning is concerned, it's nto taht hard. just call zope.testing.cleanup.cleanUp() in teardown21:36
radixphiliKON: I would be happy with global state that depended on my particular instances (and it could even use weakrefs to avoid collecting them up), but I have to associate it with the classes21:37
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philiKONand in setup you can do all the registrations you want21:37
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radixphiliKON: hmm, I looked at some cleanup stuff the other day but it all seemed way too heavy, let me look again21:37
radixwhat I'm doing now is provideAdapter and unregisterAdapter21:37
philiKONyou can do that, too21:38
philiKONbut it's tedious21:38
philiKONthe cleanUp() thing will just clear the whole registry21:38
radixwell, the unregisterAdapter is still only one call in this case21:38
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BjornTJ1m: only the project's registrant and driver (and a few people associated to the spec) may edit a feature status.21:39
radixis there a registry.clear? that'd also be nice21:39
J1mBjornT, um21:39
* radix looks21:39
BjornTJ1m: so you need to join the zope-admin team at, and tell philiKON to approve you21:39
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radixor Components.clear21:40
J1mso because I made zc.buildout part of the Zope project, I can't control my own features.21:40
philiKONradix: Components.__init__21:40
radixIs that was cleanUp does?21:40
radixoh yeah, I see it21:41
philiKONyeah, effectively21:41
BjornTJ1m: oh, i though you were trying to edit a zope specification. i think you should be able to edit zc.buildout features...21:41
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J1mBjornT, I think I should be too. :)21:42
J1mI wonder how to do that.21:42
ignasbenji: hi21:42
BjornTJ1m: at what page are you looking at?21:43
J1mBjornT, well, I was trying to mark:21:43
J1mas done21:43
J1mIt looks like I can appoint a "driver" for this project.21:44
TheuniJ1m: it shouuld have a menu item "edit whiteboard"21:44
J1mI guess I'll appoint myself.21:44
BjornTJ1m: and there's no "Change status" option in the left menu?21:44
radixanyone know mkerrin's email address?21:44
J1mBjornT, so there is.21:45
J1mah good21:45
radixI want to ask him about twisted/zope3/wsgi21:45
J1mI didn't manage to spot that.21:45
J1mradix, I think I know more about zope3/twisted/wsgi than he does.21:46
BjornTJ1m: ok. so the problem was that there were too many items in the menu :) i can see that it's easy to miss something in there...21:46
J1mI thought you didn't have time to talk about that yet.21:46
radixJ1m: well, I wanted to send off something and not be compelled to respond for a while :)21:47
radixJ1m: I was just wondering whether since zope3's using twisted 2.5 now, what work is left to be done about the wsgi layer relating to twisted21:48
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J1mradix, maybe I'm not up to date, but ...21:49
J1m1. We'll use whatever version of twisted we should be using.  Is that 2.5? :)21:49
J1m1.5 I'd rather use a release than the head of a branch.21:50
radixJ1m: yep! I'm very happy mkerrin sorted out those compatibility issues, by the way21:50
radixI was just wondering if perhaps the wsgi code from twisted 2.5 solves some of the problems you had relating to that, that the 2.1 code still had21:51
* J1m works on composing 2...21:51
radixsorry :)21:51
J1m2. See:
J1mWe don't want to maintain the Prebuffer adapter.21:53
J1mI now plan to really learn Twisted.21:53
J1mWhen I do that, I'm going to figure out how y'all manage thread pools.21:54
radixfun :)21:54
J1mWhen I do that, I'll likely have more questions/comments.21:54
radixI guess you are alse going to be asking some stuff related to what NGI does, and I'm also happy to answer stuff about that21:54
radixin fact, I'm more qualified for the NGI-related stuff than the wsgi-related stuff :)21:55
J1mIt is a little worrying that the twisted distro Theuni created didn't work w zope.21:55
Theuniactually it's not21:55
J1mCommenting out the use of the Prebuffer adapter made it work.21:55
Theunii was using twisted 2.1 accidenteally21:55
Theunibecause i didn't update my trunk since december21:56
Theuniso it looked like we're still using twisted 2.1 to me21:56
Theunibut we were using 2.521:56
Theunisorry for that confusion21:56
J1mradix, wrt to not using NGI :)21:56
J1mI'll need to learn how y'all write tests now.21:56
J1mAnd if I can write them the way I can write them for NGI.21:57
J1mIf I can, then I'll want to document that -- unless someone beats me to it.21:57
J1mOtherwise, I'll start working on an ngi-style testing framework for twisted.21:57
J1mI suppose we should be discussing this on the twisted channel though.21:58
J1mIf you want to :)21:58
J1mLater is fine for me.21:58
radixJ1m: not right now. but if you want to email me,
J1mwrt wsgi, I really want to get the prebuffer thing out of our sources if possible.21:59
J1mAlso, medium term, I want to switch Zope to use paste.deployment.21:59
J1mIn which case, we'll want a paste config for Twisted, if there isn't one already.22:00
* J1m should probably become a Twisted committer.22:00
J1mTheuni, that reminds me, it would be *nice* to use paste.deploy in 3.4, but there probably isn't time. :(22:01
philiKONthere's zope.paste22:01
radixJ1m: oh right, I was going to offer you the other day but I forgot22:01
philiKONenfold is using zope.paste in production, afaik22:01
philiKONit's even in svn.zoep.org22:01
J1mphiliKON, I'm aware of that22:01
J1mI'd like to integrate it (or something like it) into the "standard" distro/checkout.22:02
J1mOf course, that will stir up an ant's nest.22:02
J1mAlso, I suspect that paste.deploy is in a little bit if flux.22:02
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philiKONi haven't used it all that much22:03
philiKONbut since the "other frameworks" are using...22:03
philiKONit must be somewhat stable by now22:03
J1mA bunch of the web-frameworks people got together for a BoF and PyCon and agreed to review and comment on paste.deploy with the goal of adopting it accross most of the frameworks.22:03
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J1mIan isn't totally happy with the config syntax.22:04
J1mAnd it isn't super well documented. :)22:04
J1mAnyway, I plan to spend some time looking at it again as part of some homework from that BoF.22:04
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J1mI'll review zope.paste at that time.22:04
philiKONthat's good news about the BoF22:06
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J1mTheuni, you removed the parts option from the Zope3.buildout buildout.cfg.22:09
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J1mphiliKON, only one or 2 other frameworks are using it afaict22:09
philiKONi thought TG is using it22:09
TheuniJ1m: actually i made some more changes yesterday that i didn't get to chek in yet. give me a minute to catch up on that.22:09
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WebMavenJ1m: did you see the Q I posted to the dev list?22:11
TheuniJ1m: done. I made the build working by using the existing and added a configure script22:12
J1mWebMaven, yes.  But I thought I'd let benji look at that one.22:13
WebMavenbenji: AYT?22:14
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J1mTheuni, I don't think a checkout should install the zope part.22:15
J1mDo you?22:15
TheuniNot sure.22:16
TheuniI mean, all the Zope 3 buildout is for is managing the install of a release, right?22:16
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J1mTheuni, do you remember when I suggested using separate config files?22:18
WebMavenJ1m: he stepped away for a moment.22:19
J1mI suggest that buildout.cfg should be for a checkout and that build.cfg should be for building in a release and install.cfg should be for installing in a release.22:20
Theuniah. i think i didn't see that use-case yesterday.22:20
Theuniso you want to be able to create a running zope app from within the checkout/release?22:20
J1mI want to be able to run the tests and maybe even run zope from a checkout.22:21
* mgedmin +1 for running from checkout22:21
J1mI think we want to reproduce the functionality of the Zope3 checkout22:21
Theuniah. ok.22:21
J1mwhich means running the web server and running tests.22:21
Theunii was more concerned with the release yesterday.22:22
J1mI was going to chase the ZODB test failures we saw yesterday.22:22
Theunii see your point now.22:22
J1mbtw, I posted my instance recipe to pypi, fwiw22:22
Theunik. good to know.22:23
J1mTheuni, I hope the plan is still to remove and from the egg.22:28
TheuniYou told me that's the plan. :)22:28
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Theunii'll put it into the eggification proposal22:28
* J1m hopes radix will be able to get the new Twisted distros figured out this weekend. :)22:29
radixthe only risk is that a certain SO will steal my time because she is getting sick of my traveling :P22:31
WebMavenTheuni: Significant Other22:31
Theunithat thing22:31
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J1mradix, you can fix twisted distros at home. :)22:43
J1mTheuni, did you generate the ZODB 3.7b4 release from the 3.7 branch?22:46
Theunilooks like it22:47
Theunithat's the checkout where the distfile is in22:47
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J1mJust making sure.22:48
Theunik, thought there was somethign that indicated I didn't.22:48
J1mI just remembered you being as bit confused wrt 3.7/3.8/trunk22:49
Theuniright. i did that after you cleared my confusion. ;)22:49
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J1mTheuni, we're rtunning subversion 1.2.323:14
J1mI wonder if we'll have any trouble upgrading directly to 1.4.223:15
Theunilemme check23:15
Theunii wouldn't think so23:16
Theuniboth release notes (1.3 and 1.4) say they can read older repositories and you can just directly install the new binaries23:16
J1mk, thanks for checking23:16
J1mTheuni, I got rid of the btree-related test failures by releasing a 3.8 zodb sdist23:33
J1mis anyone working on the other failures?23:33
J1mTheuni, I wish we could figure out a way to handle package-includes more cleanly.23:36
J1moh well23:36
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J1mactually, it probably isn't worth the hassle.23:36
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TheuniJ1m: ah .. right. it was just getting the zodb 3.7 instead of 3.8 which was expected?23:41
J1mI'm going to make a 3.7c123:42
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