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| febb_ | hey Philip ! | 07:58 |
|---|---|---|
| febb_ | how are you now ? | 07:58 |
| philiKON | hi | 08:03 |
| philiKON | i'm good, thank you | 08:03 |
| philiKON | back in .de since yesterday | 08:03 |
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| febb_ | I'm glad you are ok now. how was your trip ? | 08:15 |
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| philiKON | febb: tiring | 08:19 |
| philiKON | febb: took pretty much 24 hours | 08:19 |
| febb | yeah, thats a lot for traveling... you flew direct from MC to DE ? | 08:20 |
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| philiKON | febb: no | 08:25 |
| philiKON | febb: MEX - IAD - FRA - DRS | 08:25 |
| philiKON | (IAD is washington dulles) | 08:25 |
| febb | yeah, I know. | 08:26 |
| febb | long trip. well, glad you are @ your home now and well. | 08:26 |
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| febb | well, time to logoff ... ttyl ! :) | 08:47 |
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| romanofski | moin | 09:53 |
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| baijum | oh! great!! https://bugs.launchpad.net/zope3/+bugs | 11:20 |
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| SteveA | philiKON: ping | 11:39 |
| SteveA | baijum: hi | 11:40 |
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| philiKON | SteveA: pong | 11:41 |
| baijum | SteveA, hi | 11:45 |
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| baijum | SteveA, please see the private message | 11:55 |
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| * baijum reported a bug in new tracker https://bugs.launchpad.net/zope3/+bug/98535 :) | 13:06 | |
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| timte | congratulations, guess you are the first :) | 13:08 |
| baijum | np | 13:10 |
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| ChrisW | heya, zope.testing is a "zope 3" project as far as reporting bugs, etc, goes, right? | 15:09 |
| philiKON | yeh | 15:10 |
| ChrisW | cool, where's the issue tracker now? | 15:10 |
| ChrisW | looks like the zope.org one is disbaled for new issues but no clue as to where to go for the new one :-( | 15:10 |
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| philiKON | ChrisW: https://bugs.launchpad.net/zope3 | 15:11 |
| ChrisW | could someone put in some text to warn of that change? | 15:11 |
| philiKON | i would if i had permissions | 15:12 |
| ChrisW | what's your zope.org username? | 15:12 |
| philiKON | philikon | 15:13 |
| philiKON | we should really do a rewrite rule | 15:13 |
| philiKON | i think there's a launchpad url to get the bugs using the old collector number | 15:13 |
| philiKON | so we could really do an easy rewrite rule | 15:13 |
| philiKON | ChrisW: hmm, i guess i'm already a manager in the collector | 15:15 |
| philiKON | though i have no clue where to change its properties | 15:15 |
| SteveA | it's possible to set up a redirect | 15:15 |
| philiKON | cool | 15:15 |
| SteveA | from an invidual bug in the collector to a bug in launchpad | 15:16 |
| SteveA | jim has the details | 15:16 |
| SteveA | just needs some apache or siteroot work | 15:16 |
| philiKON | good | 15:16 |
| philiKON | i'll bug him | 15:16 |
| SteveA | anyone here want to be in the launchpad beta-testers team, to use the new UI >? | 15:16 |
| philiKON | would love to see the new UI | 15:16 |
| philiKON | i find the current one a bit... confusing :) | 15:17 |
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| philiKON | hi benji | 15:17 |
| benji | hey, philiKON | 15:18 |
| ChrisW | hmm, in launchpad is there no way to classify a bug when you submit it? | 15:18 |
| ChrisW | I wanted to put in my issues as a "feature with patch" | 15:18 |
| philiKON | there are tags | 15:19 |
| philiKON | there's a tag feature+solution | 15:19 |
| ChrisW | how do I know what the list of tags is? | 15:19 |
| philiKON | it's on https://bugs.launchpad.net/zope3 | 15:19 |
| ChrisW | SteveA: you still doing launchpad development? | 15:20 |
| SteveA | rather | 15:20 |
| ChrisW | good stuff | 15:21 |
| ChrisW | that tag list really should be available somewhere near the box you type a tag into... | 15:21 |
| SteveA | ChrisW: you should be using the new UI | 15:21 |
| SteveA | which we're beta testing | 15:21 |
| ChrisW | will it give me access to the current data? | 15:21 |
| SteveA | tell me your launchpad id, and tell me you'll not post screenshots publicly | 15:22 |
| ChrisW | (or is it a test data set?) | 15:22 |
| SteveA | and I'll add you to the group using the beta server | 15:22 |
| ChrisW | answer my question first ;-) | 15:22 |
| SteveA | it redirects you from the main service, and uses the same database | 15:22 |
| ChrisW | good stuff | 15:22 |
| ChrisW | ChrisW is the id | 15:22 |
| philiKON | SteveA: can you add me too, pls? :) | 15:22 |
| ChrisW | bizarrely, with the old ui, clicking on "feature+solution" when not signed in shows only 6 issues, none of which is mine | 15:23 |
| SteveA | ChrisW: that's "chris walker" | 15:23 |
| ChrisW | when I am logged in, it shows 10, none of which are mine | 15:23 |
| ChrisW | well, it's got my password | 15:23 |
| ChrisW | and it's the account I've been using | 15:23 |
| ChrisW | ah, you meant my email address, nto what it shows on the ui? | 15:24 |
| SteveA | what URL do you get when you click on your name | 15:24 |
| SteveA | top right | 15:24 |
| ChrisW | https://bugs.launchpad.net/~chris-simplistix | 15:24 |
| ChrisW | but it shows ChrisW as my name | 15:24 |
| ChrisW | wtf? | 15:24 |
| philiKON | you set ChrisW as your real name apparently | 15:24 |
| SteveA | ChrisW: done. thanks for agreeing not to post screenshots. | 15:24 |
| ChrisW | no worries, I'll play nice | 15:24 |
| ChrisW | so i should have nice ui now? | 15:25 |
| SteveA | philiKON: I can make you an administrator of the beta testers team, so you can add zope3 developers, if you like | 15:25 |
| ChrisW | oo, veyr spangly | 15:25 |
| ChrisW | and solves at least one of the issues I just whined about ;-) | 15:25 |
| philiKON | SteveA: if you like | 15:25 |
| philiKON | SteveA: i'm sure at least the grok dev's would like it | 15:26 |
| philiKON | :) | 15:26 |
| SteveA | philiKON: the main rule is that people agree to keep the UI private until we decide to release it publicly | 15:26 |
| philiKON | ok | 15:26 |
| SteveA | philiKON: what's your launchpad id? | 15:27 |
| philiKON | philikon | 15:28 |
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| projekt01 | baijum, ayt? | 15:48 |
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| baijum | projekt01, yes | 15:48 |
| projekt01 | did you change the z3c.layer skin package? | 15:49 |
| baijum | projekt01, nope | 15:49 |
| projekt01 | Or do you know how has the svn nick ssh? | 15:49 |
| philiKON | stefan holek | 15:50 |
| philiKON | it's shh, though | 15:50 |
| projekt01 | This ftesting refactorings are not compatible with the existing trunk. | 15:50 |
| philiKON | projekt01: take a look at the checkins list :) | 15:50 |
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| philiKON | projekt01: he's lurker on IRC | 15:50 |
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| lurker | projekt01: existing trunk of what? | 15:52 |
| projekt01 | The new ftesting config registers duplicated items | 15:52 |
| projekt01 | It doesn't run within the Zope3 tests | 15:53 |
| lurker | projekt01: you need to get rid of the ftesting slugs in /etc/package-includes | 15:53 |
| projekt01 | Since whenn is the test.py in the Zope3 trunk deprecated? | 15:54 |
| philiKON | why would it be? | 15:54 |
| projekt01 | Your refactoring will only work if you are using build out or, right? | 15:54 |
| projekt01 | the normal trunk checkout can't run tests anymore | 15:55 |
| lurker | huh? | 15:55 |
| projekt01 | if you include 3rd party packages via svn:externals | 15:55 |
| projekt01 | like z3c.layer | 15:56 |
| lurker | z3c.layer does not have ftesting slugs anymore, so make will not copy the to etc/package-includes | 15:56 |
| lurker | if you still have some in your instance, get rid of them | 15:56 |
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| philiKON | projekt01: you guys have the weirdest way of deploying paackages | 15:56 |
| philiKON | you're creating a new external in Zope3/src ? | 15:56 |
| philiKON | ick | 15:56 |
| philiKON | lurker: i bet they're not even using instances ;) | 15:56 |
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| baijum | projekt01, first do a make clean and then make again | 15:57 |
| projekt01 | philiKON, no we do not use a build script which is needed to get a running checkout, it's all done in SVN | 15:57 |
| philiKON | aha | 15:58 |
| projekt01 | bajim, I don't need to write scripts for that, this part is left out in our setup, it's easier then everything | 15:58 |
| projekt01 | Just using the power of Subversion. | 15:58 |
| baijum | projekt01, the problem is a generated ZCML file which you had earlier, just removing it should work fine | 15:59 |
| projekt01 | Ok, I try that | 15:59 |
| philiKON | make clean; make did it for me | 16:00 |
| projekt01 | I guess you mean I have to remove the configure.zcml in the test folder of z3c.layer.minimal | 16:01 |
| jodok | philiKON: do you know who is in charge of z3c.jsonserver? | 16:01 |
| philiKON | no | 16:01 |
| jodok | philiKON: it's on codespeak and no-one seems to take care of it. | 16:02 |
| philiKON | sigh, i wish people would write README.txt and setup.py :( | 16:02 |
| philiKON | jodok: ah, you mean jsonserver | 16:02 |
| philiKON | jodok: that's not in 'z3c' :) | 16:02 |
| jodok | i'm doing that for jsonserver right now :) | 16:02 |
| philiKON | yay1 | 16:02 |
| jodok | http://codespeak.net/svn/z3/jsonserver/ | 16:02 |
| jodok | any objection to move it to svn.zope.org if we take care about it? | 16:02 |
| jodok | or who has the position to object? :) | 16:02 |
| baijum | projekt01, ZCML file in your etc/package-includes | 16:03 |
| philiKON | that's neither my decision nor your decision to make | 16:03 |
| projekt01 | baijum, philiKON, Is that a mistake and the test folder doesn't need a configure.zcml? | 16:03 |
| philiKON | jodok: jim washington wrote it, apparently | 16:03 |
| projekt01 | no the tests folder contains a configure.zcml | 16:03 |
| philiKON | jodok: let's leave it on codespeak for now. i can give you commit rights | 16:03 |
| philiKON | projekt01: you need to remove the -ftesting.zcml slug | 16:03 |
| philiKON | in your package-includes | 16:04 |
| projekt01 | What do you mean with "your" | 16:04 |
| projekt01 | setup.bat | 16:04 |
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| baijum | projekt01, which file is conflicting for you ? | 16:05 |
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| projekt01 | the configure.zcml in z3c.layer.minimal.tests | 16:05 |
| jodok | what's his irc nick philiKON ? | 16:05 |
| projekt01 | Since when do we use configure.zcml in tests folder? | 16:06 |
| benji | I'll note that the buildbot seems to be happy with the trunk. | 16:06 |
| baijum | projekt01, that file is for functional testing using test layer | 16:07 |
| projekt01 | The package get really messed up,. The tests folder is also included in the main configure.zcml | 16:07 |
| projekt01 | <include package=".tests" /> | 16:07 |
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| jodok | benji: i'd like to add the eggified / buildoutified components to buildbot. | 16:08 |
| projekt01 | I really don't know what you guys are trying to do with buildout? | 16:08 |
| jodok | benji: we can provide our slaves for tests too, if needed | 16:08 |
| projekt01 | I think I have to read the buildout proposal | 16:08 |
| jodok | projekt01: we're switching to deployment with buildout | 16:08 |
| projekt01 | Yup I see that, but we dodn't define that the old way isn't supported, right? | 16:09 |
| projekt01 | If so I can switch to buold out, but I like to do that not right now if possible. | 16:09 |
| benji | jodok: I can send you the config for you to add your auto-buildout-discovery magic to | 16:10 |
| jodok | benji: good idea :) | 16:10 |
| projekt01 | My problem right now is, I can't fix the eggified packages if they don't work on my setup, because i don't know what the buildout really needs | 16:10 |
| jodok | projekt01: well, the only thing you specify are the dependencies | 16:11 |
| jodok | and that's setuptools | 16:11 |
| jodok | buildout adds support for testing as well. | 16:12 |
| projekt01 | As far I can see, they use different testing setup | 16:12 |
| benji | jodok: it's in the mail | 16:12 |
| projekt01 | And sometimes my setup is including both config | 16:12 |
| projekt01 | That doesn't work | 16:12 |
| * baijum just looked at z3c.layer package, it's functional testing support can be improved ... | 16:13 | |
| projekt01 | What's the right way to make sure every setup get used correctly? | 16:13 |
| projekt01 | baijum, thanks | 16:13 |
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| baijum | projekt01, I am just suggesting only ... | 16:14 |
| projekt01 | baijum, it's just a wrong configuration. I guess this has nothing to do with ftesting. | 16:15 |
| jodok | projekt01: well the tests in z3c.layer were actually broken :) | 16:16 |
| jodok | and noone noticed it because they were not on a layer... | 16:16 |
| jodok | i think lurker just fixed that | 16:16 |
| projekt01 | the main configure includes the tests folder. The tests folder contains a configure.zcml and this includes the ftesting.zcml | 16:16 |
| projekt01 | This means the ftesting.zcml get loaded during server start. | 16:17 |
| baijum | projekt01, right | 16:17 |
| projekt01 | Ok, no problem, go ahead with buildout ;-) (I really have to take a look at that part) | 16:17 |
| projekt01 | thanks to all | 16:18 |
| philiKON_ | ftests shouldn't require buildout | 16:18 |
| philiKON_ | and including ftesting config in the main configure.zcml is just wrong | 16:18 |
| philiKON_ | there should be an ftesting.zcml that loads all the stuff needed for ftests | 16:18 |
| benji | philiKON_: I don't understand "ftests shouldn't require buildout", can you explain a bit | 16:19 |
| projekt01 | benji, philiKON; Aha, are I'm correct, we need to add own test layers because of the package dendencies? | 16:19 |
| philiKON_ | yes | 16:19 |
| philiKON_ | benji: we shouldn't need buildout for running tests | 16:20 |
| philiKON_ | i should be able to, say, easy_install the package and still run its tests | 16:20 |
| philiKON_ | including its ftests | 16:20 |
| benji | what about non-python dependencies? | 16:20 |
| philiKON_ | buildout is just a convenient way for us to pull in dependencies etc. | 16:20 |
| philiKON_ | benji: such as....? | 16:20 |
| benji | the ones not written in Python :) | 16:20 |
| projekt01 | So the eggification should never be incompatible with a trunk and 3rd party packages if you use a subversion checkout | 16:21 |
| benji | I don't have any examples at hand that are open source | 16:21 |
| projekt01 | This means the new testing layer setup just offers a additional python layer which is able to configure a independent test setup | 16:22 |
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| benji | that's an interesting idea; it would be nice to be able to run the tests after installing an egg; it might be a pain to set up as well :\ | 16:22 |
| projekt01 | a kind of ptesting.zcml instead of ftesting.zcml ;-) | 16:22 |
| philiKON_ | ptesting? | 16:24 |
| philiKON_ | benji: well, dependencies still don't have anything to do with it | 16:24 |
| philiKON_ | my point is, i shouldn't need buildout to run tests | 16:24 |
| philiKON_ | as long as i have all dependencies installed | 16:24 |
| philiKON_ | be it eggs or not | 16:24 |
| philiKON_ | be it python or not | 16:24 |
| philiKON_ | shouldn't matter | 16:24 |
| philiKON_ | like projekt01, i get all my junk directly from svn | 16:24 |
| philiKON_ | i should be able to run tests | 16:24 |
| philiKON_ | and i am | 16:24 |
| philiKON_ | all i'm saying is that projekt01's assumption that specific ftesting layers are a related to buildout is not really true | 16:25 |
| philiKON_ | it's a result of individual package dependencies | 16:25 |
| benji | I don't understand; there's no change I'm aware of that's made anything less usable without using a buildout | 16:26 |
| projekt01 | yes, I got that, but I realy dislike the duplication where we do right now. | 16:26 |
| benji | many projects have become /more/ testable if you use their buildout, but none have less | 16:26 |
| benji | what duplication? | 16:27 |
| projekt01 | All ftesting.zcml duplicate base registration | 16:27 |
| philiKON_ | benji: sure, sure. | 16:27 |
| projekt01 | e.g. <include package="zope.app.securitypolicy" /> | 16:27 |
| projekt01 | what's the benefit of them? | 16:27 |
| projekt01 | This doesn't eighter allow me to use a own securitypolicy | 16:28 |
| benji | that's more a result of proper layerification; there were many, many interdependencies before, these projects being made seperate means that those interdependencies become apparent and the layer mechanism lets us make the test config more explicit | 16:28 |
| projekt01 | I guess you bring in hard related depedencies with this config includes | 16:28 |
| projekt01 | That's inaceptable for. Or not? | 16:28 |
| benji | you can still use your own security policy, but the tests run agains one in particular; you could provide your own test layer with your security policy and run the tests there as well (which sounds like a good idea) | 16:29 |
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| projekt01 | benji, ok, how can I run my test and disable this default test? | 16:30 |
| projekt01 | benji, doesn't work, right? | 16:31 |
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| philiKON_ | benji: my point wasn't that buildout doesn't make things easier. it certainly does. my point is that buildout gets you dependencies etc. setup automatically, but it shouldnt' dictate testing / ftesting (wich it doesn't, and that's good) | 16:31 |
| benji | I don't see why it wouldn't; you don't have to run tests if you don't like them | 16:31 |
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| projekt01 | benji, cool benefit | 16:32 |
| philiKON_ | benji: are you talking to me or projekt01? :) | 16:32 |
| benji | philiKON_: It (currently) seems to me that the test setup is a configuration, the tests test that config; if you need to test a different config you should set that up | 16:32 |
| projekt01 | I guess to me | 16:32 |
| benji | philiKON_: heck if I know :) | 16:32 |
| philiKON_ | heh | 16:32 |
| philiKON_ | benji: which is what we're doing with our ftesting layers that load special ftesting.zcmls | 16:33 |
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| projekt01 | But we run them by default as a unit of a package | 16:34 |
| projekt01 | and there is no way to excude test in a package, right? | 16:34 |
| philiKON_ | -t !regex | 16:35 |
| projekt01 | But at all, why should a test setup bring in dependencies at all? There is no reason for that!!! | 16:35 |
| philiKON_ | there's certainly no reason for triple exclamation marks | 16:35 |
| philiKON_ | why should tests not have dependencies? | 16:35 |
| benji | heh | 16:35 |
| projekt01 | Our dependency level in Zope3 is havy based on interfaces and not on implementations | 16:35 |
| philiKON_ | ... sooooo? | 16:36 |
| projekt01 | The test setup should not bring in other dependencies, that's no benefit for nobody | 16:36 |
| projekt01 | It's just the easiest way of doing | 16:36 |
| benji | tests have lots of dependencies, more than the code, normally; if those dependencies and configuration need to be controlled | 16:36 |
| projekt01 | Ok, I say the way we are going is wrong | 16:37 |
| benji | this might be a good discussion to bring up on the list | 16:39 |
| * baijum agree with benji | 16:39 | |
| philiKON_ | projekt01: i don't get your point | 16:40 |
| philiKON_ | ftests are *functional* tests | 16:40 |
| philiKON_ | that means they do need *some* dependencies | 16:40 |
| philiKON_ | some configuration of the app server at least | 16:40 |
| projekt01 | My test setup defines <include package="zope.app.securitypolicy" /> in a 3rd party package, But I like to use another security policy. So I can't run this test just because of the setup. | 16:41 |
| philiKON_ | why can't you run the tests? | 16:42 |
| philiKON_ | sure you can | 16:42 |
| philiKON_ | i don't understand what you mean by "*my* test setup ... in a 3rd party package" | 16:42 |
| philiKON_ | is it your package or a 3rd party one? | 16:42 |
| projekt01 | zope.app.securitypolicy probably dosen't exist on my server | 16:42 |
| philiKON_ | so it's a testing dependency | 16:43 |
| philiKON_ | you don't need it to run the software, but to test it | 16:43 |
| philiKON_ | that's fair | 16:43 |
| projekt01 | Yes, I say we should get rid of this "additional" dependencies | 16:43 |
| philiKON_ | how? | 16:43 |
| projekt01 | This should be done on a project level | 16:44 |
| philiKON_ | ok. you can create common ftest layers | 16:44 |
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| philiKON_ | or create ftesting-for-my-project.zcml that's included by individual ftesting.zcml files | 16:45 |
| baijum | projekt01, dependecies are not changing if you are using layer or not using it | 16:45 |
| projekt01 | baijum, they do | 16:46 |
| baijum | projekt01, how ? | 16:46 |
| philiKON_ | baijum: he just explained | 16:46 |
| projekt01 | If the register <include package="zope.app.authentication" />, I can only run the test if my server inlcudes this package | 16:46 |
| philiKON_ | read up | 16:46 |
| * philiKON_ thinks having optional testing dependencies isn't a problem | 16:47 | |
| projekt01 | The bad thing is they bring in base dependencies where are interesign to change | 16:47 |
| philiKON_ | projekt01: s/where/which/ :) | 16:48 |
| projekt01 | philiKON, there is no benefit, we just will loose well defined tests | 16:48 |
| ignas | anyone fluent/using zope catalog? | 16:48 |
| projekt01 | philiKON, yup | 16:48 |
| philiKON_ | how so? | 16:48 |
| projekt01 | e.g. zope.app.authentication | 16:48 |
| philiKON_ | projekt01: please realise that they don't change the actual dependencies of the package | 16:48 |
| philiKON_ | testing dependencies != installation dependencies | 16:49 |
| philiKON_ | projekt01: i don't understand the well-defined bit | 16:49 |
| philiKON_ | how do we have well-defined tests in zope 3.3 and on the trunk we don't ??? | 16:49 |
| projekt01 | But then we should distribute testing as a standalone pakage | 16:49 |
| philiKON_ | why | 16:50 |
| projekt01 | I don't need modules with wrong imports on my production server. | 16:50 |
| philiKON_ | they're only in tests | 16:50 |
| philiKON_ | you don't execute tests on a production system | 16:50 |
| philiKON_ | and if you want to be absolutely safe, just install zope.app.authentication | 16:51 |
| philiKON_ | it's not going to hurt | 16:51 |
| projekt01 | We do | 16:51 |
| philiKON_ | even if you're not using it | 16:51 |
| projekt01 | It's no option to have packages on a server which are not used | 16:52 |
| philiKON_ | whateve | 16:52 |
| philiKON_ | this discussion isn't leading anywhere | 16:52 |
| philiKON_ | disk space is cheap | 16:52 |
| projekt01 | Not since we build a banking transaction system based on Zope3 | 16:52 |
| philiKON_ | easy_install is easy | 16:52 |
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| projekt01 | Ok, I will discuss this internaly and come back to this topic later | 16:54 |
| projekt01 | thanks | 16:54 |
| * baijum thinks tests should be accompanied with code always(it's not a huge burden), because it make sure your code works always | 16:54 | |
| Theuni | me too | 16:54 |
| J1m | philiKON_, I'm going to studiously avoid getting involved in this discussion, other than to note that "extras" are a crock. | 16:54 |
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| Theuni | i do run the tests when setting something up on the production system to see that everything works. | 16:54 |
| J1m | I'd be happt to expplain why if prompted. | 16:54 |
| J1m | happy | 16:55 |
| philiKON_ | um, why? | 16:55 |
| benji | yeah, why? | 16:55 |
| baijum | why? | 16:55 |
| J1m | OK, there are 2 cases. | 16:55 |
| J1m | Let's start with "testing deepndencies". | 16:55 |
| * J1m can't type | 16:55 | |
| Theuni | human language redundancy helps ;) | 16:56 |
| J1m | Testing dependencies let you specify packages that are only needed for testing. | 16:56 |
| J1m | so you test your software with those packages. | 16:56 |
| J1m | How do you know that your software works without them? | 16:56 |
| J1m | You don't. | 16:56 |
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| J1m | Benji likes to say "test what you fly, fly what you test". Testing dependencies violate that. | 16:57 |
| philiKON_ | J1m: unless you manage to write more tests that don't need those | 16:57 |
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| J1m | Then they aren't testing dependencies. | 16:57 |
| J1m | If they are there when you run teh tests, they shoudl be there in production. | 16:58 |
| philiKON_ | sure, ok | 16:58 |
| J1m | Maybe you can avoid this for things like test runners, if you can run your tests with separate test runners. | 16:58 |
| benji | to me there are a couple different situations: testing dependencies help you test the code in isolation; you should also test the code in situ with integration tests (where the dependencies are provided by your system) | 16:58 |
| J1m | so, IMO, the main use case for extras isn't really useful. | 16:58 |
| J1m | Next, consider the case of trying to limit dependencies. | 16:59 |
| J1m | zope.component is the poster child. | 16:59 |
| benji | heh | 16:59 |
| J1m | In order to be able to make it usable at all outside of Zope, I created extras for persistent registries and zcml. | 16:59 |
| J1m | The problem is that there are one set of tests that test everything. | 17:00 |
| philiKON_ | that's a prloblem of the tests, though | 17:00 |
| J1m | Sure. I can with some effort, segment the tests so that I can run tests of: | 17:00 |
| J1m | - zope.component without the extras | 17:01 |
| J1m | - The persistent registry extras | 17:01 |
| J1m | - the zcml extra | 17:01 |
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| J1m | But that's a bit of work. | 17:01 |
| J1m | I could create 3 different test runners, or I could try to do something with layers. | 17:01 |
| J1m | And all the time, I have to be careful not to mess up. | 17:01 |
| * baijum btw, started listing non-zope apps here: http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/ZopeComponentArchitecture | 17:01 | |
| philiKON_ | or these things shouldn't have been in zope.component :) | 17:02 |
| J1m | This requires hard thinking. | 17:02 |
| philiKON_ | does it? | 17:02 |
| * J1m hates thinking hard. It hurts us. | 17:02 | |
| * J1m has a low threshold for hard thinking. :) | 17:02 | |
| philiKON_ | sure, but where do i need to think hard? | 17:02 |
| benji | thinking is hard, let's go shopping! | 17:02 |
| J1m | WE have to think hard by: | 17:02 |
| J1m | - configuring and running separate test runners, or by | 17:03 |
| philiKON_ | zope.persistentcomponent wouldn't have been that hard, would it've been? | 17:03 |
| J1m | - using layers (jim waves hands) | 17:03 |
| philiKON_ | ah, i misunderstood you | 17:03 |
| J1m | - Making sure that we don't have extra packages available to the test runner. | 17:03 |
| J1m | Simply creating separate packages is a lot simpler imo. | 17:03 |
| philiKON_ | what i meant was that zope.component perhaps is too big | 17:03 |
| philiKON_ | right | 17:04 |
| J1m | Exactly, it is | 17:04 |
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| philiKON_ | that's what i meant | 17:04 |
| philiKON_ | so we agree | 17:04 |
| philiKON_ | :) | 17:04 |
| J1m | People who advocate extras say it saves them the effort of maanging separate packages. | 17:04 |
| J1m | I think maybe those people aren't very careful about testing. | 17:04 |
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| philiKON_ | prolly not | 17:04 |
| J1m | So that's why I think extras are a crock. | 17:04 |
| J1m | :) | 17:04 |
| philiKON_ | ok, cool | 17:05 |
| J1m | Oh yeah, and they make setuptools more complicated. | 17:05 |
| philiKON_ | *grin* | 17:05 |
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| seonew | can a single viewlet in a manager be displayed, or will all of them always be displayed? | 23:16 |
| philiKON | all applicable viewlets for that manager will be displayed | 23:17 |
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| seonew | i was thinking of making a single page which would show either the edit form or add form depending on a parameter | 23:27 |
| seonew | so i was looking at using a viewlet to manage that section, but doesn't look like i can do that | 23:27 |
| philiKON | not with viewlets, no | 23:28 |
| seonew | any suggestions | 23:28 |
| philiKON | redirect? | 23:30 |
| seonew | i was looking for a solution that made use of the zope architecture | 23:31 |
| seonew | thought they'd be a nice way to do it | 23:31 |
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| philiKON | seonew: don't try to outsmart yourself | 23:35 |
| philiKON | the CA doesn't stand for over-complex things | 23:35 |
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| seonew | yeah, i'll just have them on separate pages for now, look at it again later | 23:38 |
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| seonew | i could set a flag in one of the form's viewlet classes, and then in the template condition the form on the flag | 23:39 |
| seonew | how does that sound to you | 23:41 |
| philiKON | too complicated to be obvious to me at this point | 23:41 |
| philiKON | :) | 23:41 |
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