IRC log of #zope3-dev for Wednesday, 2007-05-16

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pbugniy'all have any advice on zcml validation?01:29
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pbugnior better - explain to me why restarting zope w/ an invalid zcml file in place doesn't produce errors?01:31
pbugnioh great - user error.  nm01:31
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oferwb52GM: me too02:15
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zenwrylyne1 know of anything out there for using z3 shemata with tabular data sources like CSV?  Specifically I'd love to get the really transparent schema based validation and invariants provided by something like formlib02:50
zenwrylyor perhaps a way to tailor formlib for a non-UI purpose like this?02:50
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J1mzenwryly, It should be easy enough to use the schema directly.03:08
zenwrylyJ1m: yeah, I suppose so, just being lazy03:10
zenwrylyJ1m: I'm realizing that formlib does exaclty what I need with the exception that instead of a HTTP request, I have a CSV file or row03:10
zenwrylyright now I'm looking to see how hard it would be to divorce formlib from HTML03:11
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baijumHi J1m13:04
* baijum just curious about rationale behind branches/dev for new packages in svn13:05
J1mIt's a bit of an experiment.13:06
J1mThe idea is that trunk implies some level of stability.13:06
J1mSo I like to start on branches/dev and copy to trunk when I think something is stable or at least has adequate tests.13:07
J1mReally more the later.13:07
baijumThanks J1m, It looks like a good idea ... or more a good convention for new projects13:09
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TheuniJ1m: I found the source of the "infinite" loop finally13:13
TheuniYour update that gives the dependency try is the guilty one13:13
TheuniIt's not infinite13:13
Theuniit's just a complexity that is way too high13:13
J1mThe "dependency try"?13:13
TheuniThe zope.* packages cause a 100**100 complexity13:14
Theuniwhich takes a while13:14
TheuniMy proposal is to limit the dependency depth to only 2 levels13:14
Theuniafter that the tree becomes unusable anyway13:14
J1mI don't think I agree.13:15
* Theuni listens13:15
J1mAll it does is start with a problem requirement and look at the tree of distros in the working set that require it, recursively.13:15
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J1mI'll need to look at why this is taking a long time, but right now I'm bogged down in Blobs.13:16
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J1mI think if the tree is too large, that may reflect a problem that it would be good to reveal even if it takes a long time.13:16
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TheuniWell, it makes testing the zope.* packages impossible right now13:17
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J1mI don't understand why this would have anything to do with whether buildout is installed in the system Python.13:17
J1mIf you want me to focus on this rather than Blobs, I can.13:17
TheuniIt doesn't. I think that was a weird side-effect of which version was around that I oversaw.13:17
J1mMaybe we should use ZODB 3.7 for Zope 3.4 to give us more time to deal with Blobs.13:18
TheuniDid ZODB 3.8 introduce doom() ?13:19
J1mI don't know.13:19
TheuniI think it did.13:19
TheuniBecause that's wired up in quite a couple of places of Zope 3.4 code already.13:19
TheuniI've got to go join the others for lunch.13:20
TheuniI'll be back in half an hour or so13:20
J1mTheuni, is there a buildout I can check out to reproduce the buildout problem?13:20
J1mCould you add that to the launchpad bug report?13:21
Theunimake sure it doesn't pick up the 3.4 eggs13:21
Theunimy buildout cache happened to spoil this  a couple of times13:22
J1mspoil it how?13:22
Theunithe eggs that were available in the cache were considered although the index where they came from wasn't in the find-links list13:23
J1mThe analysis only uses distros in the working set.13:24
Theuniright, but the error is triggered by the old 3.3 packages that want the egg13:25
Theuniif you get the 3.4 packages then the missingdistribution isn't triggered13:25
Theuniok, gone to lunch now13:25
baijumOutput of sys.exc_info() is different in Python 2.4 and 2.5, this breaks some tests in zope.testing, zope.configuration etc.13:29
baijumHere is an example:13:29
baijumimport sys13:29
baijum    raise Exception("test")13:29
baijum    t, v, tb = sys.exc_info()13:29
baijum    print t13:29
baijum#In 2.4: exceptions.Exception13:30
baijum#In 2.5: <type 'exceptions.Exception'>13:30
baijumHow to tackle this problem ? can I change it to use t.__name__ ('Exception' in both case) ?13:30
baijumor what abou making the newer versions of package only support 2.5 ?13:30
J1mThat's a good question.13:30
J1mI hate to fork zope.testing for something like this.13:30
J1mI haven't had time to think about this.13:30
J1mI normally address this sort of problem with RENormalizer.13:31
J1mThat gets rather tedious.13:32
baijumJ1m, can you point me an example of RENormalizer ?13:34
J1mThe test runner tests use it extensively. :)13:34
J1mSo to the buildout tests.13:35
baijumah, ok I will look into that. thanks13:35
J1mThe doc strings in zope.testing.renormalizing give examples.13:35
J1mSome day, it would be nice to pull those out into a renormalizing.txt.13:36
J1mThose were written during the transition to text files.13:36
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projekt01baijum, is the zissue repos at berlios still alive?16:17
baijumprojekt01, nope16:17
projekt01Do you have another good sample?16:18
baijum"good sample" for ?16:18
projekt01learn z316:18
projekt01A friend of mine is looking for samples, how to etc. and asked me for sources16:19
baijumone minute..16:19
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baijumprojekt01, I think this is a working one;
projekt01baijum, thanks a lot16:20
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SteveATheuni: hi17:40
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nxfHi, "make check" of Zope 3.3.1 gives me 1 error. How do I get more info about this error?18:21
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Theuniwhat's the error? :)18:27
nxfExactly, that's what I want to know :) It just says "Ran 8148 tests with 1 failures and 1 errors in 300.402 seconds."18:27
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nxfAny verbose switch?18:30
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mgedminit should have printed the two tracebacks above that line18:44
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nxfAh... I'm so sorry. I just didn't see it because the window full of dots. Somehow I assumed errors to be cached and thrown at the bottom.18:50
mgedminit used to do both18:57
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mgedminnow I think it shows only the one by default, and the second one at some high verbosity level18:58
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nxfok, thanks, need to remember that19:02
nxfleaving for home, bye19:03
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CrippsFXman, that World Cookery book is great.20:54
CrippsFXI started reading it on friday and I'm on ch. 15 right now.20:56
CrippsFXImma go through it a second time, developing my site on the way through.20:56
pbugniwhoa!  you're eating that thing up!  way to dense (or maybe it's life's distractions...) for me to race through at such a rate20:57
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CrippsFXwell, part of it is that I'm being paid to read it ;) ... 7 hour work day, no more development until I finish it the first time :P20:58
WebMaven_CrippsFX: cool job.21:00
CrippsFXWebMaven_: you're telling me. :)21:00
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CrippsFXhm ... I thought I disconnected as acripps__  ....21:03
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CrippsFXthere we go.21:04
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pbugniseriously!  who's the employer :)21:17
CrippsFXno one you'd be interested in ... I'm still only making $9.50/hour :P21:19
CrippsFXI work for the housing department of Memorial UNiversity of Newfoundland21:19
pbugnilol - i'm not looking, just wanted to give credit to an institution who recognized the need to invest time in training21:20
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CrippsFXPretty much the big boss said "Here's the project, do what you need to do," so the project leader chose the  framework, and now we're all learning so that we can do things well. We started off w/ very little training, and things sort of worked, but then we started to read the worldcookery book, and the project leader decided we'd scrap what we had, read the book and re-do everything ...21:22
CrippsFX.. after we're done the bo0ok it should only take a few days to get back to where we were anyways.21:22
CrippsFX(the project leader is xbeanx, so, give him kudos ;)21:23
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smcool.. go CrippsFX, xbeanx21:42
smdid you look at grok yet ?21:42
CrippsFXPersonally, I haven't.21:45
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smhave you used the zope3 wiki much ? any comments on it ?21:48
CrippsFXZope3 wiki is pretty useful, there's lots of good stuff on it ... unfortunately for folks who start off with no clue, I think it leads to doing stuff in a way that's not very zope-3 like21:49
CrippsFXI'm in the middle of the world cookery book, and looking back on a lot of my code makes me shidder.21:50
smdo you mean a lot of the stuff in the wiki is out of date ?21:50
xbeanxI read most of the Zope 3 wiki....  By the time I got to the end I realized I couldn't remember the first 3/4s of what I read21:50
CrippsFXI used it mostly as a reference for doing specific tasks than I did for any of the totorials.21:52
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smI was thinking it's time the zope3 wiki officially targetted zope3 users too21:52
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smit has always been primarily focussed on the development of zope3 itself21:53
smit has a big mixture of content now21:53
xbeanxI noticed that, however it is still a very useful resource for users21:55
smyes indeed21:55
smit's the only resource for users, afaik21:55
smaside from the worldcookery site, probably21:55
smso I think it could be better organized now by audience like
CrippsFXyeah, I think users need a bit more in the way of resources.21:56
xbeanxThe worldcookery book is a good resource too..21:56
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CrippsFXoh, heck yes.21:57
smso, another alternative is to point all users there exclusively21:57
smbut that's probably not best21:58
xbeanxthe site is not of much help....the book is the best spot....  its pricey though21:58
xbeanxThere are a few good tutorials out there, but they're really basic.21:58
* sm is talking only about free online docs, here21:58
CrippsFXsm: I'm totally thinking that as I/we get to know zope better here, we could probably write a tutorial here and there to help out with that.21:59
smthat's important, though actually I think maintaining docs is more urgent than generating them22:01
smgathering, updating, cleaning out the old etc22:02
small: I do think we should start to organize the z3 wiki a bit more to make it user- and app developer- as well as framework developer-friendly - comments welcome22:05
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WebMaven_Does anyone have advice on creating a site deployment recipe for making a Zope instance that has a custom skin?22:21
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CrippsFXWebMaven: worldcookery :P22:21
WebMavenSorry, I should have been more specific: a zc.buildout recipe22:22
CrippsFXsm: comments: good idea. I don't have that much time to offer currently, between work and kernel hacking, but Imma see what my boss will let me get away with at work *coughs xbeanx coughs*22:22
CrippsFXWebMaven: in which case, I don't know ... yet ;)22:22
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WebMavensm: Simon, what about you?22:23
smafraid not WebMaven.. I don't know z3 well22:24
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* benji wonders what it means for Zope 3 to be user-friendly.22:34
smzope 3's users are web app developers, so it means making life easy for those people I guess22:36
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benjimake sense; and "developer-friendly" means "zope-3-contributor-friendly"; it'd be nice if those two groups converged over time22:45
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smI see, I spoke about user-friendly, app developer-friendly, and framework developer-friendly22:48
smwhen I said that I was thinking of zope developers, application(/site) developers, system administrators, and users (<- people who use zope 3 sites/apps). The latter we don't need to worry about now, and perhaps never22:50
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