IRC log of #zope3-dev for Monday, 2007-05-21

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baijumHi nikhil_n14:10
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dennis_is there a way I can restrict my "context/@@absolute_url/breadcrumbs"  to the nearest ISite? i.e. I have my site in /mysite/.. and would prefer to have the breadcrumbs to be all relative to that, rather than the root, without any special doing in my views15:26
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ignasdennis_: try writing a custom url view for your objects16:04
ignasor looking at the way it currently works16:04
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timteCan I get all adapters that are registered for a certain context interface?17:19
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timtegetAdapters finds both single and multi adapters, of course that will fail if context has both kinds of adapters, factory will be invoked with equal number of arguments in both cases17:45
timteI guess it's not very useful if a specific interface (other than Interface) is specified17:46
timteis not specified17:46
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timteI can't find any other method than zope.component.getAdapters. How am I supposed to use it safely?17:49
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CSWookietimte: Hm?17:49
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timtenow it throws an exception (__init__ has too few arguments) if a multi adapter is registered for the obj in getAdapters((obj,), Interface)17:52
timtedo I have to use lower level apis?17:52
CSWookietimte: I didn't get what you wanted.17:53
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timtewith safely I mean that getAdapters can ignore those adapters it can't create17:53
timteCSWookie: should I be more clear?  :)17:54
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CSWookietimte: I don't know what you want.  getMultiAdapter gets a multiadapter, and getAdapter gets a single adapter.17:54
timtegetAdapters appears to get multi adapters as well17:54
CSWookietimte: There are query variants of each that return a default value if the adapter could not be found or made.  The default defaults to None.17:55
timtethere is no plural getMultiAdapters it seems17:55
CSWookiegetAdapters, I think gets a list of possibly adapters.  I've not had need for it, so I don't understand it as well.17:55
CSWookieIs here a queryAdapters?17:56
CSWookieSo you don't know exactly what inputs you want to provide for adaptation?17:56
timteyes I know, I have an object I want to find adapters for17:58
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timtebut getAdapters method finds all adapters including multi ones and tries to create them, but as the adapters need different amount of arguments it fails17:58
CSWookietimte: I just find it odd that you want all the adapters.  I haven't used that.  Granted, I'nly started with zope3 a few months ago.17:59
CSWookies/I'nly/I only/17:59
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faassenis it possible to provide a display widget for Object widgets depending on the schema the object implements?18:30
faassenor would that entail the creation of a new field?18:30
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J1mfaassen, I think you could create a new object-field widget that dispatched on the object interface.18:35
faassenJ1m: how would the ca know what to dispatch on?18:35
J1mThe ca wouldn't.18:35
faassenJ1m: just do an implements based on what schema you pass along?18:35
J1mYou would register a factory that does the dispatching.18:36
faassenJ1m: aah, a second dispatch.18:36
faassenJ1m: right.18:36
faassenhm, probably in this case it's simpler to just create a new Object field subclass.18:36
faassenas I use it multiple times anyway.18:37
faassenthat is, if that works. :)18:37
faassenyes, that does work.18:37
faassenJ1m: thanks for the feedback though. the idea might be handy later, if this approach doesn't seem to do the trick.18:38
faassenJ1m: oh, by the way..18:40
faassenJ1m: about your trip to DZUG18:40
faassenJ1m: when are you arriving and when are you leaving? :)18:40
J1mI arrive Saturday at 5:15pm, depart Thursday at 3pm.18:42
J1mThose times are at the airport.18:42
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faassenJ1m: okay.18:42
faassenJ1m: monday-tuesday is the DZUG days themselves, right? what are you doing wed?18:43
J1mI'll be sprinting Sunday, Wednesday, and, I assume Thursday morning.18:43
faassenah, okay. :)18:43
faassenwell, sunday as much as we have time for with the meeting and all.18:44
J1mWithout time out for the DZUG/ZF meeting whenever that is.18:44
faassenokay, I want to know so I can time my trip along with yours.18:44
faassenI think I'll leave on thursday too then.18:44
faassenthanks. :)18:44
faassenare you giving a talk at DZUG by the way?18:44
J1mAssuming that the German Speaking Zope User's meeting group will be conducted mostly in German, I assume that non-Germain-speakers like myself will have some sprinting time on Monday and Tuesday as well.18:45
faassenJ1m: aah, right. :)18:46
J1mI'm giving a buildout tutorial.18:46
faassenJ1m: I will be giving a talk in English. :)18:46
faassenJ1m: cool.18:46
J1mI'll come to your talk then. :)18:46
faassenJ1m: I hadn't thought about that. I understand German so that gives me more of an opportunity to understand stuff.18:46
faassenJ1m: it's about grok! :)18:46
J1mGood, I'd love to get an update.18:47
J1mIs it OK if I heckle? ;)18:47
faassenokay, I will see how much I can cram into half an hour.18:47
faassensure, you can heckle. I heckle during talks, so you can heckle during mine. :)18:47
srichterfaassen: to direct your initial question, I would always write a sub-form for an object field18:48
faassensrichter: a sub form?18:48
faassensrichter: I mean, it already works okay for edit forms.18:49
srichterwell, for simple, simple sites maybe, but not  for real ones, in my experience18:49
srichterI often need a lot of control over the fields being placed, a widget hides that from me18:50
faassensrichter: requiring people to write sub forms destroys the use case of this application, where it should be really easy to add new forms.18:50
faassensrichter: without writing a lot of code.18:50
srichterwell, a subform (even in zope.formlib) is usually a matter of writing the class (2 lines) and integrating it in update ( 1-2 lines)18:51
faassenupgrade is part of the framework, not part of the application.18:52
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faassenthe applications are very declarative.18:53
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faassensorry, update, not 'upgrade'.18:53
srichteroh well, if you do not want to use any of the hooks that we provide, then of course, subforms are hard18:54
faassenI don't want the people who write the forms to have to worry about hooks. :)18:54
faassenI would prefer them to write the schema and as little as possible else.18:54
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dennis_i have a question about the getParents method in zope.traversing.api   .. if you call getParents() on an object which is not an IContainmentRoot, you get a list of all parents up to the ZODB root, any of which can themselves be IContainment roots. (i.e., it doesn't stop traversal when it encounters an IContainment root). Yet if you pass getParent an IContainment root, it returns an empty list immediately, and does not traverse further. Why is the logic20:18
dennis_like that? I would expect it to a) traverse to the ZODB root, or b) stop at the first IContainmentRoot it encounters20:18
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J1mdennis_, I assume that an object is not its own parent.20:21
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dennis_but getParents() does not return its parents at all20:22
dennis_hierarchy:   zope.root A / some.icontainmentroot B / some.folder C / some.folder D / some.content E,   getParents( C ) gives [B,A], yet getParents(B) gives [], I would either expect the first case to return only [B], or the second case to return also [A], but maybe I missing the point20:24
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J1mdennis_, getParents should probably be called getAncestors.20:42
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J1mdennis_, in any case, your example is not case that anyone has considered.20:49
J1mUsually, there is one containment root and that is the zope root.20:50
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J1mI suspect there is an adapter for IContainmentRoor that just returns and empty list.20:50
J1mI suspect that the default adapter just follows __parent__ until it sees a __parent__ that is None, which is arguably a bug, but works just find in the expected case that there is only one root.20:51
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dennis_i was looking for a way such that:  suppose the user is in /mysite/some/where/here/there and uses the search box, which should point to /mysite/search.html, but I don't know the depth (in advance) and i would prefer not to code the logic into the app that it is not located in the root but in mysite.  So i wondered how to create the proper a href="" in a search template without hardcoding /mysite20:52
dennis_stumbled on getParents :)20:52
dennis_also though that if mysite is an IContainmentRoot this would work since getParents would stop there  (well I thought wrong :)20:53
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J1mI would use to get the current site.20:55
J1mThen use the absolute url of that to compute the url you needs.20:55
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J1mI wish someone would get around to providing a saner place to import that function from. :)20:55
dennis_which imports are by default available inside a page template?  (ie if i use python: .. )20:56
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J1mIt doesn't matter.  You shouldn't do any computation in a page template.20:57
* J1m has an out20:57
dennis_IPhysicallyLocatable( self ).getNearestSite() does the same20:57
J1mCool. I bet it works harder, but am too lazy to check.20:58
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dennis_thanks for your time j1m20:58
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mgedminsupposing that I want a view named 'foo' on IFoo to actually be the same thing as another existing view 'bar' on
mgedmincan I register a function as a multiadapter that did return getMultiAdapter((, request), name='bar'?21:05
J1mI don't know what "another existing view 'bar' on" means.21:07
J1mah, maybe you're asking whether you can have a view on an object that just delegates to a view on a subobject?21:08
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J1mThe answer is yes. :)21:13
mgedminyippee! :)21:14
mgedminI was just wondering how to register it21:14
J1m*I* would keep it simple and just register a view that delegates.21:15
mgedminobviously it is a multi-adapter on the (context, request)21:15
mgedmindoes it have to provide ibrowserpublisher?21:15
J1mMaybe, I'd register a factory that delegates, as you suggested.21:15
mgedminby "delegates" you mean its __call__ would do the getMultiAdapter lookup and call the real view?21:15
mgedminI was hoping to delegate the view creation21:16
J1m2 possibilities.21:16
J1mThe __call__ (or methods called by __call__) get the view and call methods on it.21:16
J1mAlternatively, as you first suggested, you have a factory that redispatches to the sub-object view.21:16
J1mIt's possible, that you may need to do the former, for example to adjust URLs.21:17
J1mI dunno -- depends on specifics.21:17
J1mI would do whatever seems easier and simpler.21:17
J1mThe factory seems a bit simpler on the surface.21:18
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srichterJ1m: did you put your buildout PyCon slides into somewhere?21:54
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nerdalertsrichter: I have those slides if you want me to post them somewhere22:12
srichternerdalert: thanks, but I found them just a minute ago22:12
srichterand finally saved them on my computer :-)22:12
* srichter is finally getting a bit deeper into eggs22:12
nerdalerthmm.  do you know of any popular channels for ORM stuff?22:14
srichternerdalert: no, usually it is just part of the job22:15
srichternerdalert: I think you are best off asking on the lists22:16
nerdalertsrichter: you don't happen to know of a place where I could find ORM popularity trends and statistics, do you?22:16
srichterno, I just know that people in the Zope 3 world like alchemy22:17
nerdalertI'm talking to a guy here at work about language popularity, and I wanted to correlate ORM suckiness to web framework popularity22:17
srichterhe he22:17
nerdalertso people in the zope 3 world don't like sqlos?22:20
srichterit has been used22:21
srichtersome write their own ORM code22:21
srichterbut of course, there is a large section that does not use RDBs at all and only work with the ZODB22:22
nerdalerti <3 ZODB, but sometimes one must work with pre-existing systems22:23
srichterright, in this case I usually build very limited bridges22:25
nerdalertI need to play around with alchemy sometime.  after playing around with sqlos, I wasn't sure I wanted an ORM anymore22:25
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srichterhe he22:26
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nerdalertoops.  I didn't mean to bash sqlos.  it seems like a fine ORM22:31
nerdalertjust lately, I wonder if I even want an ORM for some tasks, other than to give me cross-platform RDBMS compliancy22:32
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nerdalertand all of that assuming I can't use the ZODB for some reason22:32
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J1msrichter, yes22:54
J1min zc/buildout/trunk/doc22:55
srichterI'll mark that location too :-)22:55
* srichter creates eggs right now with almost no idea of what he is doing22:55
J1mTheuni, ayt?22:56
srichterJ1m: so I have developed a demo package that for one I release as package but I also want to be able to create an isntance22:56
srichterJ1m: would I create a new project for the instance?22:56
J1mCould you pls read what you just wrote and translate it? :)22:57
srichterok, it makes sense to me, but let me elaborate :-)22:58
srichterlet's say I have a package called ns.demo22:58
srichterusually I would have just installed that package in a Zope 3 instance22:58
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srichterbut if I understand your tutorial correctly, I could not build a "distribution" or "egg" that woudl create a full Zope 3 instance with the demo package installed22:59
* J1m turns up his nose22:59
srichterbut if I understand your tutorial correctly, I could now build a "distribution" or "egg" that woudl create a full Zope 3 instance with the demo package installed23:00
srichterthat means people could just install an egg and try a demo directly without having to build their own Z3 server23:01
srichteris that correct?23:01
srichtermmh, darn! :-)23:01
srichterso what is the zc.sharing Example in the tutorial really doing?23:01
J1mYou could conceivably create a distribution that installed a script that started a server. I hope I didn't say anything in the tutorial that could be construed to encourage that.23:02
J1mIt is a buildout.23:02
J1mLet's step back a bit.23:02
J1mEggs are for installing *libraries* and *scripts*.  That's all.23:02
J1mWhile a script could be construed to be an application, usually an application has some configurations, and scripts don't really provide support for customzation directly.23:03
J1mWhile a script could be construed to be an application, usually an application has some configurations, and scripts don't really provide support for customization directly.23:04
srichterok, that's certainly true for z323:04
J1mThe zc.sharing example is a buildout.  Someone can create an application configuration by creating a buildout specification for the application and using buildout to build the application, along with it's configuration.23:05
J1mNow, if you were focussed on demos, you could create a script that took basic configuration information on it's command line.23:06
J1mFor example:23:06
J1mrundemozope 8080 jim:12323:06
J1mit might be useful for trying something out, but nor for any sort of production use.23:06
srichterright, though I like what zc.sharing does23:07
srichterI am okay with having the server port  specified in the cdfg23:07
srichterI am okay with having the server port  specified in the cfg23:07
srichter(the username/password I do not really care about, since I am making all demos public, at least for this round)23:07
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J1mIf you create an egg by running zc.sharing's you'll only get the zc.sharing package. You won't get an instance.23:08
srichterso how would the "instance" part (did I use the right vocabulary?) be built?23:09
J1mBy running the buildout.23:10
srichteroh, ok, I see23:10
srichterhow would that look in the command line?23:10
J1mNote that the instance definition in the zc.sharing buildout exists soley to aid development of zc.sharing.23:10
srichteryes, I figured that23:11
J1mIt lets you try it out interactively.23:11
srichterin my case the isntance declaration would just aid to running the demo; since you do not need it on a real development isntance23:11
J1mSo, first you bootstrap it.  e.g.:23:11
J1mpython2.4 bootstrap.py23:11
J1mThen you run the buildout:23:11
srichteryes, that step I can do already :-)23:11
J1mThat should create the instance.23:12
srichteryep, got that too :-)23:12
srichterah, so bin/bouldout creates all parts23:12
J1mThen, if you were running a modern instance recipe, you'd do get a ctl script for the instance.23:12
J1mSo, if the part was named instance, you'd use:23:12
J1mbin/instance start23:12
srichterwow, that's neat23:12
srichterokay, now I understand where bin/test comes from23:13
J1mNo, I think the zc.sharing example uses an old instance recipe23:13
J1mSo for that, you might be stuck with:23:13
J1mparts/instance/bin/zopectl start23:13
J1mThat's a very old instance recipe.23:14
srichterwhat is the latest zc instance recipe?23:14
srichterok, I'll check those out23:14
J1mThat recipe separates application definition from instance definition.23:14
J1mI need to update the app recipe to let you use eggs only.23:15
J1mGocept also has an instance recipe.23:15
srichterdo you still need to specify the ZCML files within the CFG files?23:15
J1mIt can work with just eggs.23:15
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J1mTheuni, took a different approach than I did.23:15
srichterTheuni was already so friendly to send me a setup of his23:15
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J1mIn the zc.zope3recipes:app recipe, you specify a site.zcml as an option in an application part.23:16
srichterah, ok, much better :-23:16
srichterah, ok, much better :-)23:16
J1mIdeally, this would be one line that includes the configuration from an application package + maybe a principal definition.23:17
J1mThe philosophy is that you'll do most of your application configuration in a non-trivial configure.zcml in an application package.23:17
srichterright, because you define a complete set of ZCML in a package for ftesting already23:17
J1mAnd because there should be as little data as possible outside of Python packages.23:18
srichterok, good pattern to know23:18
J1mat least, as little application-definition data.23:19
J1mat least, as little application-definition data as possible23:19
srichterso, if people would want to see the demo in a demo instance, they would check out ns.demo?23:19
srichteror would it be better to create a ns.demoisntance project that deos the instance declaration?23:19
J1mThat would be one way.  Alternatively, you could provide a user-fiendly installation script that did that for them.23:20
J1mI think that's what the grok project has been playing with.23:20
J1mA separate project is another option, but I'm not sure it's necessary.23:21
J1mA nice thing about a buildout that, it addition to providing a devel environment for working on a package, it also provides a simple usage example.23:22
srichterright, that's what zc.sharing does23:22
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srichterso in the case of zc.sharing, how would you create the instance today?23:23
srichterI guess: checkout zc.sharing, run bootstrap, run buildbot23:23
srichteris there something shorter already?23:23
J1mNo.  I don't need it.23:24
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J1mIf I wanted to create a user-fiendly demo, I might invent some tool or see if the Groksters already built one. :)23:24
srichterIt's just a sidekick for me23:25
srichterso checking it out is easy enough for now :-)23:25
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srichterdarn, buildout takes a long time if you have the usual Zope App dependencies23:26
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J1mThere's a bug I need to fix that makes buildout take a very long time if the dependency graph is insane.23:27
J1mAs ours are atm.23:27
srichterhe he; yep23:27
J1mI'm gonna try to fix it tomorrow morning and make a new buildout release.23:28
srichterJ1m: thanks for your time and the explanations23:28
srichterI hope that I get the eggs stuff in the next weeks and can help contributing23:28
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srichterJ1m: one recipe I'd like to write is for coverage reports23:35
srichterso I hope I can get to that point :-)23:36
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