IRC log of #zope3-dev for Wednesday, 2007-05-30

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zenwrylyHas no one yet written a ComponentLookupError debugging tool?02:41
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romanofskimoin :)10:23
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Theuni_J1m: ping. I'm finishing up my ZODB presentation for the Linuxtag and noticed that I lost all notes from the ZODB BoF at pycon, do you remember some of the larger issues/goals we discussed there for the future?13:40
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CrippsFXmorning folks.14:43
CrippsFX50 cents goes to whoever can find me a cigarette ...14:43
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rockyTheuni_: hey what's the status on RefreshNG these days?14:59
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Theuni_people are working with it14:59
Theuni_i got a few bug reports in the last days14:59
Theuni_and gotta find some time to fix them14:59
rockyi'm trying to see how to get access to the versioned code... does it use bazaar or something?15:00
Theuni_jup. bzr.15:00
rockydon't suppose there's a page some place explaining how to check it out?15:02
Theuni_you should be able to use "bzr pull"15:02
* rocky is looking through the launchpad site but so far come up empty)15:02
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Theuni_if you look at this page:
Theuni_it tells you what the bazaar url is15:02
Theuni_it doesn't explain how to retrieve a copy though15:02
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rockynot a branch it says15:03
* Theuni_ tries15:04
Theuni_you need to give a target parameter15:04
Theuni_try "bzr pull XXX RefreshNG"15:05
rockyactually i think i need to setup bzr more than i have15:05
Theuni_my mistake15:05
Theuni_you have to branch it first15:05
Theuni_"bzr branch XXX RefreshNG"15:05
rockybranch it locally i assume?15:05
rockyi only know about this because of my experience with svk15:06
Theuni_then you can get upstream updates via `bzr pull` inside15:06
rockytalk about high barrier of entryi for people who only know svn/cvs ;)15:06
Theuni_you could also do `bzr co` but then you can't do local checkins15:06
Theuni_Well, I took RefreshNG as a project to try out bzr :)15:07
rockyoh i'm not blaming you or RefreshNG ;)15:07
rockyjust seems like launchpad should connect the dots a bit better ;)15:07
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rockyTheuni_: i don't suppose you've tried the svn plugin for bzr ?15:14
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Theuni_rocky: nope.15:20
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CrippsFX'morgen philiKON. Wie geht's?15:47
philiKONgut, danke15:48
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* rocky is having fun with Bazaar -> svn repo15:49
rockyphiliKON: you still use svk ?15:49
rockyphiliKON: you tried bzr yet?15:50
philiKONwanted to, though15:50
* benji likes bzr, but hasn't really used it in anger15:50
CrippsFXoh, good morning Benji.15:51
rockybzr is a full alternative to svn (whereas svk is on top of svn) ... but right now i'm playing with the bzr-svn plugin which lets you interface with svn repos which effectively makes bzr behave very close to svk, at least functionality-wise15:51
rockybut... svk is written in perl, bzr is writtein in python :)15:51
* CrippsFX thinks bzr gets +1 in his books15:52
rockylets you do bzr merge, pull, push, etc against an svn repo15:53
rockybzr is a little less strict than svk tho... with svk you need to have a full "repo" iniitalized in ~/.svk15:53
rockywith bzr you simply check out and/or branch a remote project into some local dir like you would with svn15:53
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CrippsFXbenji: I know what you were saying yesterday about making a branch of the external (repos/main/Zope3/branches/3.3/) ... but I'm having issues trying to make a branch of it ... something having to do with the fact that I can't make a branch in repos/main/Zope/branches from repos/main/Zope3/branches  ... nore can I make a branch in repos/main/Zope3/branches from repos/main/Zope3/branches/3.3/15:54
benjiCrippsFX: what command are you running?15:55
CrippsFXbenji: svn copy -m"Making Zope 3.3 branch for viewlet dev." svn://
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CrippsFXsvn copy -m"Making Zope 3.3 branch for viewlet dev."svn:// svn+ssh://   also isn't working for me.15:58
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benjitry using a svn+ssh URL for the source of the copy (don't know if it matters, but have never tried it without)16:02
benjioh, and your target doesn't need "3.3/" in it, just do .../branches/acripps-new...16:03
CrippsFX I'm about to paste 4 lines:16:05
CrippsFX[acripps@shcherbakov zope]$ svn copy -m"Making Zope 3.3 branch for viewlet dev." svn+ssh:// svn+ssh://
CrippsFXsvn: Source and dest appear not to be in the same repository (src: 'svn+ssh://'; dst: 'svn+ssh://')16:05
CrippsFXer ... 2 lines ;)16:05
CrippsFXit's better, but now bitching to me about being in different repos.16:06
CrippsFXoh .. acripps@16:06
CrippsFXthere we go.16:06
CrippsFXthanks benji.16:06
CrippsFXhow often does the 3.3 branch get merged with trunk?16:07
CrippsFXor does trunk get updated ...16:07
J1mTheuni_, nope. BTW. we should touch base on Blobs.16:08
benjiany time someone fixes a bug they should fix it in all supported versions (backporting or forwardporting from whereever they did the actual work)16:09
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CrippsFXI see. So anytime something is done, and that something is stable, the work has to be committed to stable, testing, and dev releases then?16:10
CrippsFX(devs are responsible for their own respective dev releases ...)16:10
benjithat jargon isn't usually used with respect to Z3, but I suspect I know what you mean, and you're right except that I'm not sure what you mean by a "dev" release16:12
CrippsFXdev ... all the branches should have the changes applied, but their developers are responsible for that ....16:12
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CrippsFXkk. cool.16:17
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CrippsFXI have finally submitted that bleeding directive ... now I just need to test it and write docs :)16:41
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exarkundoes this seem unfortunate to anyone else?
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nerdalertnot really23:26
nerdalert*args and **kwargs are different things23:27
exarkunhm.  will that object verify if I change the interface to take *params?23:27
exarkunor will it verify if I give x and y defaults?23:27
nerdalertboth are good ideas23:27
nerdalertI think the *params thing seems like what you wanted though23:28
benjiexarkun: I suggest people mostly forget that verifyObject exists, especially if it's giving you problems.23:28
* benji looks for his Men in Black flashy thing to use on #zope3-dev.23:28
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exarkunbenji: but I only just started using it today :(23:29
exarkunI could forget about it, yea.  It was kind of handy for a while.  I thought my integration testing problems were, well, not over, but lessened slightly.23:30
nerdalertbenji: why don't you deprecate it then?23:30
nerdalertnvm.  it's probably used all over the place by other parts of the component arch23:31
* nerdalert needs to learn to think before typing.23:31
benjiActually, I doubt it's used much in "real" code (just test code); which is fine, using it to "smell" an object in a test to make sure things are as you want is a good use of it, but I don't know of a sane use for it otherwise23:32
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exarkunThat's basically the only use I've been putting it to23:33
exarkunBut I guess I can't use it here23:34
exarkunI don't want this function to have default values and I don't want the args to be positional. Oh well.23:34
benjicool; in that case if it's not working for you (and asuming it's not a bug), then if you don't see an obvious enhancement to make, do something else :)23:35
nerdalertwhy's it a problem for them to be positional?23:35
nerdalertthat sounds like pretty solid advice23:36
benjioh, you want that Python 3000 PEP for being able to specify required keywordyness23:36
exarkunnerdalert: It's okay for them to be positional in the implementation.  But they will always be passed by keyword, and it seems like the interface should reflect that (the names are half the info).23:37
benjinerdalert: it might be solid advice for every percieved misbehavior in all software <wink>23:37
nerdalertbenji: so....  I should never write code that works but write a lot of it?23:38
benjiexarkun: also, anything for which there isn't syntax to specify something in an interface, you can use English prose prefixed with the special "invariant indicator": #23:38
benjinerdalert: if that's what I said, then I'm sticking to it23:38
nerdalerthee hee23:38
exarkunbenji: You are inspiring me to submit a refinement calculus-based enhancement to verifyObject.23:39
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exarkunthanks for the help23:50
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