IRC log of #zope3-dev for Thursday, 2007-07-19

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tjsis IInitIds utility threadsafe?09:42
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srichtertjs: yes, because it uses the object's oid10:00
tjssrichter: cool, thanks10:04
tjssrichter: I'm making a cross-database reference utility10:05
tjsto do zodb->storm relationships10:05
tjsjust going to use the iintid util on the zope end10:05
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junkafariandont spose there's a relay bot in here?13:10
junkafarianjust wanted to thank mgedmin for his debug tip13:10
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brandon_rhodesAre there grok people about on this channel, or is grok without an IRC presence at the moment?15:34
edgordonthere are grok people here, but i there is usually a grok channel too15:35
brandon_rhodesI see a "grok-ix" channel but that looks like something else ...15:37
edgordoni have gotten lots of grok help here15:37
brandon_rhodesActually, now that I'm waking up, I realize this is a Zope 3 question.  So: with a template I know how to use "object/attribute" in an expression to do "object.attribute" in the Python behind it.15:38
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brandon_rhodesBut: what about when I want to adapt an object?  Maybe for a particular panel of my web page, I need to adapt the context to be an ISomething object so that I can display it using information I grab from an ISomething interface.15:39
brandon_rhodesDoes the TAL template language (or the expression engine?) allow one to ask for an object to be adapted?15:39
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edgordonseems like adaptation is way outside of what zpt should be doing15:41
ignasbrandon_rhodes: hmm i can see 20 users in #grok15:41
edgordonanyone have any tips on setting up a 'clean' python install for zopeproject development in osx? just curious as to what python you use and where you installed it.15:43
brandon_rhodesedgordon: well, perhaps I mean calling a function on something. I guess TAL wouldn't actually know it was adaptation! But just like "a/b" means "a.b", or, more precisely, it means "getattr(a,b)", I wondered if there were some syntax like "a:b" to have a function call "a(b)" happen in the background.15:43
ignasbrandon_rhodes: it is possible15:43
ignasbut a bit more complicated15:43
ignasyou can't have all your functions available15:43
ignasbut you can register some things15:44
brandon_rhodesignas: you're right... #grok is appearing in my "Channel Search" list now!15:44
ignasand have it like "person/can_acces:title" for example15:44
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brandon_rhodesignas: is there a section of the docs I've missed that describes that?15:45
ignasno idea, haven't seen docs for more than 2 years15:45
ignasi can point you at some source code though ;)15:45
ignasnon grok sourcecode though15:45
ignasthe registration15:46
ignas the handler15:47
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edgordoni guess i was just wondering if most osx users use the default or darwinports install of python, or if you install another python for zope development15:50
bigkevmcdPersonally, I use the packages15:51
brandon_rhodesedgordon: Philipp von Weitershausen noted on the grok mailing list on Wednesday that using system Python distros can get you into trouble on several platforms, so there does seem to be a preference for doing a clean 2nd install for running Zope 3...15:53
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edgordonyeah, that is sorta what got me thinking about it15:54
brandon_rhodesedgordon: gotchya15:54
edgordonso, i was just curious how people have gone about that15:54
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ignasedgordon: for schooltool i am using buildout15:55
edgordonignas: and what python are you using w/ that?15:55 - installs buildout with your system python, then compiles new python, installs buildout with new python, and then build schooltool15:55
ignasnot sure how would that work on mac though15:56
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edgordonhmm. why wouldn't it?15:56
edgordonits not like i really need any of the macpython stuff for zope develpment15:57
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ignasedgordon: because i haven't tried ;)15:58
edgordonoh, right. ok, looks like your schooltool doc is a great starting point for what i am looking for15:58
edgordonso, thanks15:58
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MJthis is getting tiresome.16:43
* MJ kicks his router16:44
MJzc.buildout question16:44
MJis there any way I can name an egg and tell buildout to ignore it's dependencies altogether16:44
MJI need one egg for a Z2 app, where the zope.* dependencies are already part of the Zope distribution16:44
MJcurrently, the egg in question depends on zope.schema, which ends up pulling in all of Z3..16:44
benjiwho benji16:44
benjioops :)16:44
J1mMJ: no16:44
J1mI wouldn't be opposed to that feature.16:44
* wiggy would love that feature16:45
benjiMJ's ghosting made me remember that I had a network outage this morning, and I didn't remember who I was.16:45
wiggyMJ: hand-editing .installed ?16:45
MJwiggy: heh, yippee16:45
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wiggyassumed-eggs = zope.schema 1.016:45
wiggylovely router16:46
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MJhelpfully, my IRC client crashed too.16:46
MJJ1m: how would you see the syntax?16:47
ignasJ1m: i am trying to build a new python and use it as the python to buildout my project , is there some better way (that would not include using the shell script)16:47
MJtheuni: this is all your fault too ;)16:47
wiggyassumed-eggs = zope.schema 1.0 would work for me :)16:48
* theuni runs16:48
* MJ is trying to include AlphaFlow into a buildout16:48
* theuni runs faster16:48
MJtheuni: and AlphaFlow now needs zc.sourcefactory16:48
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theuniyes it does16:48
MJtheuni: and zc.sourcefactory wants zope.schema16:48
wiggyalphaflow 2 or 1?16:48
MJand the snowball gets only bigger after that..16:48
theuniwhich tells me you are working with alphaflow 216:48
MJwiggy: 216:48
MJtheuni: may as well..16:48
J1mMJ, I really don't know and don't even have time to think about it.16:49
wiggyMJ: that's in alpha status, do we want to use that?16:49
MJJ1m: okay16:49
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MJwiggy: if it works.16:49
MJoh hell16:49
* MJ switches to 1 and avoids the issue altogether.16:49
theuniwiggy, MJ: honestly, from my perspective, AF 2 isn't usable within the next 4 weeks, after that we'll finish it.16:49
theunithe customer project is still in work an AF 2 moves along with it16:49
MJtheuni: too late then ;)16:49
theunilife's a bitch :)16:49
wiggyour deadline is 1.5 weeks from now16:49
J1mignas, I have no idea what you're talking about.16:49
theunithen you better not work on the trunk ...16:50
MJsimple enough project16:50
J1mTo use a particular Python, just bootstrap with it.16:50
MJtheuni: I was using a tag.16:50
J1mThen it will be used from then on.16:50
theunieven worse, which means it was old =)16:50
ignasJ1m: i want buildout to build that new python, because users installing schooltool are not technical enough to compile it themselves16:50
ignasJ1m: i just wanted to know if i can do this in buildout in 1 step16:51
MJignas: do it in bootstrap instead16:51
J1mYou could if you were willing to use the system Python to run buildout but have everything you build use a custom python.16:51
J1mYou can build Python as part of your project and set up the buildout so that that Python gets used for other things.16:52
ignasJ1m: buildout installs eggs in the first run, so egg binary files get compiled for the system python16:52
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ignaspython on ubuntu16:56
ignashas packages in site-packages that i don't need16:56
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ignasand that conflict with some eggs being installed16:56
J1mah, you want buildout to have an option to exclude site packages.16:56
wiggythat's the ubuntu-installs-everything-with-egg-info thing, isn't it16:56
ignasif buildout could in some way remove site-packages from pythonpath16:56
ignasand use something local instead16:56
wiggyoh, more general16:56
ignaswiggy: yes, that part is causing me problems16:57
J1mThat's not a bad idea.16:57
J1mI wonder if you could run buildout under workingenv.16:58
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J1mworkingenv goes out of it's way to not look at site-packages.16:58
mgedmindoesn't philikon's zopeproject use buildout?  if so I did run it under workingenv once16:58
ignasi'll have to try that, maybe it will work better than my current approach17:00
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whit|outJ1m: I recently ran buildout under workingenv and it worked nicely17:20
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* whit was using ploneout17:21
J1mI guess that's a pretty good answer to the old questions of how they should be used together.17:21
* whit was very happy about the situation17:21
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fdrakemgedmin: How much more are you planning on doing to zope.testing?17:39
fdrakeI want a final release at some point, and the releases that are already out there are insane.17:39
benjion a related note, I glanced at nose the other day.17:39
mgedminfdrake: I'd like to finish the tests and documentation on the test-checkers branch and merge it17:39
fdrakeMore features?  Are they close?17:40
mgedminmaybe figure out why --ndiff doesn't work if I run the full zope.testing testsuite, but works if I run individual tests17:40
benjiIts extension mechanism looks good; if someone were suitably motivated, they could probably add the features unique to zope.testing to nose17:40
benjifdrake: they're pretty close; I think layer support is the biggest missing feature17:40
fdrakeThere's a 3.4-r# release out there already, which is newer than 3.4 if we ask pkg_resources; I'd like to drive us to a zope.testing 3.5 quickly, so a final release is close.17:41
fdrakebenji: I meant more features from the test-checkers branch.17:41
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fdrakeWe've got lots of stuff that depends on zope.testing, and that's got nasty release pain.17:42
* fdrake strongly hates -r# and dev releases.17:42
philiKONamen, brother17:43
fdrakemgedmin: I'm actually less worried about bug fixes than features; we can make bugfix releases without doing weird branch dances.17:43
* mgedmin is not getting fdrake's point17:44
mgedmindo you mean to say that releases are a pain and therefore fewer releases == better?17:44
fdrakemgedmin: I mean dealing with branches is a pain, so we should do fewer.17:45
fdrakeI'm happy to see releases X.Y.0, X.Y.1, ... X.Y.587 happen as quickly as needed to deal with bugs.17:46
fdrakeWith the recently discussed maturity level policy from the zope3-dev list, there's a lot of pressure to get at least some of the foundation packages in final states quickly.17:47
fdrakePressure from me, if nothing else.  ;-)17:47
fdrakezope.testing was my next target, since zope.interface requires it.17:47
mgedminwhats a "final state" ?17:47
fdrakemgedmin: Not alpha/beta/dev/-r#.17:48
mgedmin(a) has no half-finished stuff in it, or (b) won't change ever after17:48
theuni"3.4" would be a final release17:48
CSWookiemgedmin: Their release number ends in neither a, b, or dev.17:48
fdraketheuni: or "3.4.1"17:48
fdraketheuni: of ""17:49
fdrakeHey, we can give examples all day!  ;-)17:49
mgedminfdrake: I'm not aware of any bugs in zope.testing that would preclude a final release now17:49
mgedmin(unless I introduced some with my recent changes)17:49
mgedmin(but I hope I didn't)17:49
fdrakeSo if I release 3.5.0 *right now*, we're good?17:49
edgordonwhat package includes all the core zope zcml directives? I just switched some zopeprojects to a local 'clean' python install, and my easy-install.pth is a lot shorter. and now i get InvalidDirective errors on basic stuff like 'include'17:49
mgedminfdrake: yes, I think so17:50
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fdrakeedgordon: zope.configuration handles that.17:50
fdrakeOk, I plan to release zope.testing 3.5.0 right now then.17:50
fdrakeedgordon: I think.17:50
edgordonhmm. that is odd. it is already there17:50
edgordonand i still get the error17:51
edgordonany tips?17:51
CSWookiefdrake: Yea fdrake!  Go! Go! Go!17:51
fdrakeIt's there, but the meta.zcml from that might need to be included.  It's hard to say without diving into your project.17:51
fdrakeedgordon: You can start chasing down what's loaded from to see what happens at that point.17:52
edgordonyeah, nothing about zope.configuration there17:54
fdrakeI will note that I'm specifically ignoring the maturity level on setuptools, since that's been a release candidate for like a decade.17:54
edgordoni could just include it per-project, but it just seems like something is wrong with the whole setup17:56
fdrakeedgordon: I can't judge that w/out knowing what you're doing.  It's possible dependencies aren't right somewhere, I guess.17:56
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fdrakemgedmin: Something in the long_description for 3.5.0 is not UTF-8 encodable; haven't looked to see what yet.  PyPI isn't exactly a good place for Unicode.18:12
fdrakeSo 3.5.0 has no long description there, but I filled in the rest of the metadata using the web form.18:13
mgedminlong_description is essentially the contents of README.txt, and I don't see non-ASCII stuff there18:14
fdrakeThat and most of the other doc files.18:14
fdrakeCould be anywhere.18:14
mgedminoh, it reads the files, not just mentions their filenames18:15
fdrakeI suspect ASCII only for the long description is best, at least until PyPI can deal with Unicode.18:15
fdrakeYeah; there's a lot there.18:15
mgedminI bet it's the "Unicode Errors" section in testrunner-errrors.txt18:15
fdrakeI'd be happy to have a shorter long description myself.18:15
mgedminyes, there's a U+2014 (em dash) in there18:16
fdrakeOooh... imagine that.  Is it in input, or output?18:16
fdrakeIf input, it can probably be encoded using \u or \U18:16
fdrakeDoesn't need to be dealt with now; the release is done.18:17
mgedminhm, long_description = long_description.decode('utf-8').encode('ascii', 'xmlentityref') ?18:17
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fdrakeGiven the insanity of PyPI's handling of the descriptions, I'd vote to use less in the long description.18:18
fdrakeThen the tests don't have to get hacky just to keep PyPI happy.18:19
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fdrakeLong description was really only meant to be a paragraph or two, not a book or complete website.18:20
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fdrakezope.interface is next.18:20
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fdrakeArgh!  There's a zope.interface 3.4dev.  What's that supposed to be?18:21
fdrakeAh, at least that comes before 3.4.18:22
fdrakeI'll release zope.interface 3.4.0 *right now*; objectors need to be quick.18:23
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fdrakeHuh.  The CHANGES.txt file mentions releases I don't see anywhere.18:24
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mgedmin+1 for not including the full test suite in the description18:27
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fdrakezope.interface 3.4.0 release complete18:33
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fdrakeHmm.  The zope.component fetches and zope.publisher.18:35
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fdrakeThat feels sick.18:35
faassenfdrake: yup, hopefully this will all be unsickened at some point. :)18:36
faassenfdrake: zope.i18n fetches zope.component which fetches just about the whole universe.18:36
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fdrakeYeah, zope.component gets a lot of other stuff too, when I look at bin/test.18:36
fdrakeI guess I've got to find other low-hanging fruit.18:37
mgedminwhy does zope.component need those?18:37
fdrakeDunno.  Maybe overzealous tests?  Or a busted install_requires?18:38
mgedminI can find no imports of or zope.publisher in zope.component code18:38
fdrakeIf it's a busted, that's worth fixing.18:38
fdrakezope.deferredimport is a real dependency, and there are (now) final releases of all dependencies there.18:39
fdrakeI'll release zope.deferredimport now.18:39
fdrakeObjectors are likely to be ignored; I'm on a roll.  ;-)18:39
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* fdrake guesses J1m is taking lunch;awaiting PyPI privs for zope.deferredimport.18:54
CSWookiefdrake: He is not, but he is AFK18:55
xbeanxWhat slot must I fill to render something without the header and menu?18:55
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xbeanxd'uh, nevermind.... that's gotta be the dumbest question anyone ever asked in here18:57
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lisppaste6eldafar pasted "This is for grok channel, it doesn't have a paste bin -_-" at
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fdrakezope.deferredimport 3.4.0 released; PyPI update waiting for privs.18:59
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hazmatfaassen, ping19:05
hazmatfaassen, did you get the hurry.workflow patches?19:05
faassenhazmat: yes, I got them, but I was at EuroPython all week last week and I haven't had a chance to look at them yet this week.19:06
faassenhazmat: I'll put it on my todo list.19:06
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fdrakezope.i18nmessageid is next.19:08
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fdrakezope.i18nmessageid 3.4.0 is released, PyPI updates pending privs assignment.19:18
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srichterPyPI really needs the concept of groups19:46
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hazmatfaassen, cool, just let me know if there are any questions/comments regarding19:49
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fdrakesrichter: No kidding.19:54
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faassenhazmat: will do. :)20:00
* faassen waves bye.20:00
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srichterJ1m: can you make me an owner of the zope.i18n package on PyPI?20:47
fdrakezope.dottedname 3.4.0 is finished.20:48
srichterfdrake: can you annoy Jim to give me access to zope.i18n?20:48
fdrakeI think he's looking at perms now.20:49
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fdrakeHe's only now getting to several backed up requests I had.20:49
J1msrichter, sure20:50
J1msrichter, what is your pypi id?20:50
srichteractually, whenever you give someone zope.* package access add me too :-)20:50
fdrakesrichter must be plotting world domination....20:51
* J1m roots for sricter20:52
J1mvote for stephan20:52
* srichter has this already, but J1m and theuni tried a come back ;-)20:52
srichterokay zope.i18n 3.4.0b4 is released too20:53
* J1m is tired of beta releases.20:53
srichterit was buggy until now20:53
J1mI guess zope.i18n is not trivial.20:53
srichterI want to make sure that everything in z3c.form works as expected20:53
srichterI started using the number parsing and formatting in z3c.form which showed a bunch of bugs that I am fixing20:54
srichterotherwise I am quick on making final releases20:54
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fdrakePyPI updated for the releases I made this morning.21:23
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J1msrichter, did you try ppix yet?21:33
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fdrakeJ1m: I did!  I love it already!21:33
fdrakeAdded it to my ~/.buildout/default.cfg.21:34
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iam-vivekdo any try zope wiki21:45
iam-viveksome problem in the site.21:45
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iam-vivekdid any tried zopewiki21:48
fdrakeWell, I'm not planning any more package-release shenanigans for today, so I'm outta here for now...21:48
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iam-vivekzopewiki is having some problem.21:50
smiam-vivek: you're right.. my fault, sorry21:52
* sm fixes21:52
iam-viveksm: thank you21:54
* sm was trying to install clouseau for a zeo-less debug prompt21:54
smshould be ok now21:54
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CrippsFXis there a way I can access a vocabulary directly from a page template? I'm *sort of* building a form that uses two choice widgets (from vocabularies) to get information. This information is then used to query a database and return a container full of values.22:05
CrippsFXso I want to go through this page and have a view for the container generated.22:06
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srichterJ1m: I meant to ask you waht ppix does... I follow the checkins closely22:24
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J1msrichter, see the note I sent to the distutils and catalog sigs this morning.22:27
srichtersigh, I am not subscribed, but I find the archives22:27
J1mBasically, a much faster pypi22:28
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srichterI am reading your post now22:29
J1mmaybe I should forward to zope3-dev22:29
srichterI think this would be good22:29
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aelknerwe are having a problem writing a functional test that instantiates two Browser() instances in that they both seem to be updating to the same (probably virtual) db22:34
pcarduneaelkner: they do update to the same virtual db22:35
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aelknerbut we want two different dbs for our test22:36
srichterJ1m: awesome!22:37
srichterJ1m: this is cool; I'll update every package I touch :-)22:37
aelknersrichter: we are working on the schooltool sifagent package ftests, and we want to have two different Browser() instances that each have its db.  Is there a way to do that?22:39
aelknerRight now we find that they both share the same db22:40
srichterthere is probably a way, but it is not straightforward22:40
srichterit would probably need some serious fiddeling with the layer setup and the testbrowser constructor22:41
aelkneri was afraid of that22:41
aelknercould it be that we are the first use case that has this needx?22:41
srichterwe usually do not have this need22:42
srichterthis we only test one application22:42
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aelknersrichter: I could look into the serious fiddling when i get the chance.22:44
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J1msrichter, you don't have to modify any packages to use ppix.23:10
J1mJust put it ibn ~/.buildout/default.cfg23:11
srichteryeah, I saw Fred's comment23:11
srichterso I did:23:11
srichterindex =
srichterin the file you mentioned23:11
srichter(you should add this to the overview page)23:11
J1mperhaps so23:12
srichterit is really so much faster23:13
benjioverview of what?  if zc.buildout, then I would think not, it's just as likely that ppix will be slow for any random person as pypi23:13
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J1mbenji: on the ppix page23:13
benjiah, that makes more sense23:14
benjioh, J1m: what did you think about Martin's desire for downloads from mirrors to update pypi's download counters?23:14
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benjiwell, be that way ;)23:24
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J1mbenji, the mirror I et up points to pypi for downloads.23:26
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mgedmincool discovery of the day: python2.5's built-in any() function breaks unit test coverage reporting23:31
mgedminlooks like it resets the sys.settrace hook for some reason or another23:31
* mgedmin is playing with z3c.coverage test suite if anyone else is interested23:31
philiKON_srichter: you should check out gmane... you don't have to be subscribed to read lists23:32
philiKON_J1m: in which way is ppix faster than pypi?23:33
philiKON_ah, i see now. :)23:33
philiKON_very neat23:34
benjiphiliKON_: the format is helpful for setuptools, and at least as importantly, it's "closer" than pypi (in a network sense)23:35
philiKON_heh, right23:35
benjiof course, it might be closer for some than others23:35
philiKON_well, it's basically a flat list23:35
philiKON_of all files of all versions23:35
philiKON_in one single accessible page23:35
philiKON_that's simple and therefore fast to deliver23:35
* philiKON_ wonders how to run ppix...23:36
J1mphiliKON_, if you decide to do so, it's pretty easy.23:36
philiKON_well, i think people might be interested in running local ppix23:36
J1mNote that this all started with your note about multiple requests for buildout. :)23:36
philiKON_right :)23:37
philiKON_i'm fully aware of that23:37
philiKON_i think this is great23:37
philiKON_i wish pypi would have this built-in and setuptools would know about it23:37
philiKON_but this works just as well23:37
J1mI'd like to get some discussion/blessing on the catalog-sig list before we have too many mirrors.23:37
philiKON_that's fair23:37
* philiKON_ will read the catalog-sig list23:37
J1mI'm a little dissapointed that there hasn't been any reaction on the sig lists.23:38
wiggythe new index looks nice23:39
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philiKON_J1m: have you seen ?23:45
philiKON_by the way23:45
J1mYes.  I wasn't aware that what you were suggesting would work w/o $HOME being set.23:46
philiKON_ok. i'll apply it then.23:46
philiKON_on windows, $HOME typically isn't set, but $HOMEDRIVE and $HOMEDIR23:46
philiKON_os.path.expanduser('~') seems to be the canonical form of resolving the user's homedir on both paltforms23:47
J1mI have home set to make emacs work the way I want. :)  So I can't easily test your change.23:47
philiKON_i've seen that buildout actually heavily depends on the environment23:47
philiKON_i have a ~/buildout/default.cfg which seems to mess it up quite badly...23:48
J1mHow so?23:48
philiKON_when running the tests, it seems to actually use the settings from default.cfg23:48
J1moh, the buildout tests you eman.23:49
philiKON_right, sorry, was talkinga bout the tests23:49
J1mThey own;y work from a buildout and yes, they depend on environment settings.23:49
J1mThey need to be able to find Python 2.3 and 2.4 so they can test running with different pythons.23:49
philiKON_i see23:50
J1mThe buildout tests are a bear because of many of the things that have to be tested.23:50
philiKON_that's.... interesting :)23:50
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pcardunethis is very strange, running tests with --coverage doesn't pick up all the tested modules... but if I put a pdb set_trace into a file, rerun the tests, then *only* that module shows up, then removing the pdb trace and rerunning coverage for a third time has the missing module show up.  (phew)23:50
philiKONJ1m: if my observations are correct, they also do donwloads... right?23:50
philiKONJ1m: at least zc.zope3recipes tests would download stuff...23:50
projekt01J1m, is it possible to write a recipt which will use a argument winservice=false and install a run script or with winservice=true the win service deamon. If so does this conflict with linux buildout process if we use this in the project recipe buildout.cfg23:51
J1mThe testing framework for buildout actually sets up web servers.23:51
mgedminpcardune: --coverage is very fragile due to the intricacies of python's sys.settrace()23:53
J1mIf it was it's own recipe, it wouldn't conflict with anything.23:53
pcardunemgedmin: hmmm, do you have any solutions/recommendations?23:53
mgedminnot really...23:53
projekt01J1m, that sounds good23:53
mgedminI used to debug the problems one-by-one23:53
projekt01J1m, the test do not all run on windows some path output are different on windows e.g. d d:\\... instead of - d:\\...23:54
mgedminfind the test that breaks coverage reporting for subsequent tests, try to figure out why and fix it23:54
J1mIf it was a change to zc.zope3recipes:instance then that might be a little trickier but still diable.23:54
J1mprojekt01, right, I know I need to fix that.23:54
pcardunemgedmin: what does "fixing it" usually involve23:54
J1mThat's one of the reasons zc.buildout is still beta. :(23:55
J1mprojekt01, the service mechanism might also be triggered by use of a deployment part, if that concept maps to windows.23:55
projekt01I whould call the hole python egg process on windows pre-alpha ;-)23:55
J1mwell, I wouldn't.23:56
projekt01I was just kidding23:56
J1mLots of people use eggs on windows and people have has success using the zodb eggs.23:56
J1mMost of us who are working on this just don't workon windows so the recipes are certainly less mature.23:57
projekt01the problem is, you have to get all the eggs for windows, if one egg is missing e.g. pysqlite you are lost.23:57
J1mOur deployment recipes reflect lots of uniz experience.23:57
J1mUnless you have a compiler installed. :)23:57
J1mWorks great for me.23:57
J1mAlthough I need to create another windows VM to test compiler-less installs.23:58
projekt01Yes, I use mingw and msys, it works great, but I couldn't buil python 2.4 and pysqlite23:58
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J1mDistutils has made dealing with windows a lot easier for me. Now that I have my environment set up, creating widows dists is very very easy.23:59

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