IRC log of #zope3-dev for Thursday, 2007-08-23

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philiKON_timte: you really want to open another connection in that thread00:08
timtedoes _p_jar.db() open a new connection?00:11
incorrecti just followed the helloworld screencast00:12
timteno I don't think it does00:12
timtephiliKON_: I'm trying to port lovely.remotetask to zope 2.9, may I show you the code I'm trying to port?00:13
incorrecthowever i've goofed the zcml00:14
philiKON_timte: i think _p_jar is the db, opens a new connection, conn.root() gives you the root obj00:18
timtephiliKON_: I'm not sure what is opening a connection, does the publishing process do that?00:19
timte(there's no in my code)00:19
philiKON_upon each new reuqest, zope does00:20
philiKON_conn =
philiKON_root = conn.root()00:20
philiKON_root_folder = root['Application'[00:20
philiKON_(at least somethingl ike that)00:20
timtebut it should close it as well I guess?00:20
philiKON_of course00:20
philiKON_at the end of each request, it either aborts or commits the transaction00:21
philiKON_then it closes the connecdtion00:21
philiKON_conn.close()00:21 spells it all out00:21
timtemaybe the requests are never ended00:21
timteI'll look into that tomorrow00:21
philiKON_sure they are00:22
timtemaybe a request opens another request or something, I guess that would never end any request00:23
philiKON_not sure what you're trying to say...00:24
timteif I by mistake recursively open new requests in my code, I guess that could result in lots of open connections00:25
timtethat was just on idea00:26
timtephiliKON_: why should a thread get a new connection to the database?00:27
timtefor same reason one has one zope client per cpu I guess00:28
* timte shuts up00:28
philiKON_it's just that that's how the zodb handles multi-threadedness, i suppose00:29
philiKON_all i know is that if each thread has its own connection that's opened and closed properly, it works00:29
philiKON_because that's how zope itself does it00:29
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spythonhi, anyone know how to setup my doctest if i have a <subscriber handler="blah" for="IFoo IBar" /> ?02:01
spythonprovideHandler(blah)  doesn't seem to work02:01
wiggyprovideSubscriber or something like that probably02:03
spythonthing is, if i move the for="IFoo IBar" into the code as in "@adapter(IFoo, IBar" it works with provideHandler02:07
spythonwiggy: i tried provideSubscriptionAdapter02:07
spythonah, of course02:20
spythonprovideHandler(blah, [IFoo, IBar])02:20
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tjsnot sure how many of you guys use vim07:43
tjsbut  <-- save this to ~/.vim/syntax/doctest.vim07:43
tjs(it expects your python.vim to be in the same dir)07:44
tjsfor non-suck doctest highlighting07:44
tjsit uses the python highlighting after the >>>07:44
tjsgot sick of the monotone one on vim.org07:45
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* Theuni checks09:21
Theunihrn. it doesn't support doctest blocks correctly09:21
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Theuniis that supposed to be for reST files or inline doctests?09:22
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tjsTheuni: doctest files09:28
tjsits just a hacked version of the one on vim.org09:28
tjsto add python support09:28
tjsare all doctest files rest?09:28
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Theunithe main mode should be doctest and only the >>> (even without whitespace at the beginning of the line!) should be python mode09:37
tjsthat should be fairly straight forward09:38
Theunihmm, it wasn't for me :)09:38
Theunibut i'm no good at vim syntax files09:38
tjswill take a look tonight :)09:38
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junkafarianwrong channel12:52
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markusleistprojekt01: sorry again, I didn't find "the right context" yesterday? I'm in my Browser-View of obj1 and wants to find obj2 by path-string '/a/b/obj2'. in my view of obj1 i have to use self.request to get (secure) access to obj2, right? But there is no 'url'; where my mistake? Do you have any hint (template/example/doc)?13:29
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projekt01markusleist, you can access the view with a XMLRPC client.13:32
projekt01at the url of the XMRPC view13:33
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markusleistprojekt01: i've tested my XMLRPC-View. there is no url-Attribute or something like that. What do you mean: should i do a xmlrpc-call in the method of obj1 to get access to obj2 (eg. over localhost)?14:04
markusleistI think, it's a bit "oversized" and not straight forward for the security mechanism.14:05
junkafarianmarkusleist: i use the RPC methods to call context methods14:06
junkafariansaves including business logic in the view14:07
markusleistok, i do it also. but14:07
markusleisti have a browser-request in which i "reached" my obj1. all i want to do is: traverse to an other obj, via "string"-path with the same security-association.14:10
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markusleistI'm in browser-view of obj1 and the only one i know is the string-path to obj2. xmlrpc is the preferred way here?14:12
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philiKONmarkusleist: no14:19
philiKONmarkusleist: zope.traverse.api.traversePath or so14:20
philiKONmarkusleist: my book's API reference should give clues14:20
markusleistphiliKON: i'll look. till then.14:22
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J1mTheuni, ayt?15:20
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TheuniJ1m: jupp15:34
J1mI'm wondering what your thoughts are relating to the 3.4 release, and, more importantly, how to manage the various package eggs.15:35
J1mI'd like to get most or all of the eggs to final releases.15:35
J1mI'm not sure what the bug status is, I suppose I should look at that.15:35
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TheuniMy thoughts are that the rc should happen ASAP. IMHO we need some bugfixes for that. I spent some time going through about 80% of the open bugs prioritizing them but some of the work needs to actually be done.15:36
TheuniI think I marked some critical and added them to the 3.4 series15:36
J1mI'd like people to be able to start using the prefer-final option in buildout, but we need more final releases for that to work.15:36
TheuniRight. What do we want the 3.4 rc to be?15:37
TheuniWe could make the individual eggs final and include them in the rc, otoh we could make rcs for the eggs and put those in the rc for 3.4.15:37
Theuni(Making them final would require that no critical/high priority bugs for those packages are around)15:37
J1mI didn't think we were using eggs in the 3.4 release.15:38
TheuniWe're pointing to the appropriate branches of the packages. We don't use eggs.15:38
J1mYou're pointing to branches?15:38
Theunicurrently branches + revision15:39
TheuniThe plan was to change this to tags on the rc and final.15:39
philiKONIMHO, we should get all the 3.4.x projects to a final release15:39
philiKON(unless they already have been)15:39
TheuniI started doing it on branches + revision and offered to switch to tags in the rc, not the beta.15:39
TheuniphiliKON: and unless they have bugs.15:39
philiKONthen we should make a 3.4.0rc1 Zope 3 release, pointing to the tags15:39
philiKONTheuni: right15:39
Theunisounds good to me15:40
Theuniif the release then discovers errors we can make new bugfix releases of the packages and upgrade the externals.15:40
philiKONif we find bugs in the rc, we just release a bugfix release of whichever project is involved15:40
Theuniwe should get a washing list or something.15:40
TheuniI'll do that.15:40
philiKONbtw, i think we should use the cheeseshop as our primary relesae target15:40
philiKONnot download.zope.org15:40
TheuniI'll create a wiki page that lists the packages that the RC needs to be released.15:40
philiKONwith ppix/simple index it's much more usable now15:41
J1mphiliKON, I disagree with crapping in the cheeseshop.15:41
J1mWe broke out many packahes prematurely.15:41
TheuniEventually we can use for unstable releases and only put stable releases into the cheeseshop.15:41
J1mIt makes us look bad imo.15:41
philiKONwell, it's too late now :).15:41
philiKONwe have a 0.1dev something there15:41
philiKONwhichi s worse than a 3.4.015:41
J1mIt's not too late to stop crapping in the cheeseshop.15:42
philiKONi'm not sure i'm following15:42
philiKON99% of our packages already *are* there15:42
philiKONwe're constantly working on improving their front page15:42
J1mThen we suck.15:42
philiKONwe probably do :)15:43
J1mMost packages have crappy meta data.15:43
philiKONwell, that's something we can work on, can't we15:43
J1mI bet most or all packages that depend on Zope 3 frameworks aren't labeled as such.15:43
J1mYes, but who's going to do that.15:43
J1mUntil we do, I think we should consider pulling things out.15:44
J1m*especially packages*15:44
philiKONi don't mind pullin gout the crapp 0.1dev or 3.4dev-rXXX releases15:44
J1mThat's a start! :)15:44
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J1mBTW, I'm not criticizing anyone.15:45
philiKONi'll happily work on improving th epackage metadata when i'm encountering a package15:45
philiKONi usually have in the past15:45
TheuniYou can criticize the eggs. ;)15:45
J1mI just want to stop making errors.15:45
J1mso, 2 separate issues.15:46
J1m1. wrt the cheeseshop, while we're thinking about it:15:46
J1mI suggest we remove any packages that have only dev releases.15:47
J1mI suggest we remove packages unless they have trove classifiers that clearly indicate that they are for the zope 3 frameworks.15:47
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J1m(Or, alternatively update the trove classifiers.)15:48
J1mI'll do this for packages that I own.15:48
philiKONnote that some zope.* packages also clearly are for the Zoep 3 framework15:48
philiKONzope.viewlet, fo rexample15:48
philiKONor zope.formlib15:48
J1mIf we know of those, then we should apply the same operation.15:48
J1mBut I'm not volunteering to think hard. :)15:49
J1m2. wrt individual projects. we'll move those to final where possible and switch the Zope3 trunk to use tags.15:50
J1mI hope there haven't been changes on the branches.15:50
philiKONthe zope 3 trunk or the zope 3.4 branch?15:50
J1mBoth I guess.15:50
J1mat least the branch.15:50
J1mBut it might be a good idea for the trunk as well.15:50
J1mI'm not sure.15:50
Theunime neither15:51
J1mIt depends on what the trunk is for,15:51
philiKONi think the trunk could point to the trunks15:51
TheuniWe didn't define what happens to the trunk actually.15:51
philiKONyou know what, we should let those people decide who still want the trunk15:51
J1mwell, at least the branch then.15:51
philiKONlike projekt0115:51
TheuniI just split off the branch because we create branches for releases.15:51
J1mTheuni, yup.15:51
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J1mWhat I don't want is branches in individual packages that exist to serve a Zope 3 release branch.15:52
TheuniI'd be happy to create a todo list for all packages that we need to look at, but I can do that earliest in a few hours.15:52
TheuniJ1m: ack15:52
J1mTheuni, that would be great. Thanks.15:52
J1mIs that the same as a "wash list"?15:53
J1mI wasn't sure what you meant by that.15:53
Theunigerman idiom.15:53
J1mk, cool15:53
Theunilooks like it doesn't translate ;)15:53
* philiKON wonders what german idiom that is :)15:53
J1mSure it does. You just translated. :)15:54
Theuni'n waschzettel halt15:54
philiKONuh huh :)15:54
philiKONk, ttyl15:54
J1mOK, well that's (package discussion) helpful. Thanks.15:54
* Theuni wanders off again15:55
* J1m needs to write a script to get project status info from the cheeseshop...15:56
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xbeanxis there a skin that does the same thing as the zope 3 javascript menu, except not done in javascript?  :)16:42 has something like that16:43
xbeanxk, thanks16:43
xbeanxcool, just what I was looking for16:44
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rinouI have a ZODB mount and I'd like to move an object attribute from my root ZODB into that mount.17:34
rinouWhen I do it by assignment, the _p_jar of that attribute doesn't change, thus the object sticks in the root ZODB.17:34
rinouHow can I force a copy into the other ZODB?17:34
J1mCreate a new object, copy the data and stick the new object in the other db.17:35
J1mThere isn't an official api for moving/copying an object between dbs.17:36
rinouBy copy the data you mean use copy.deepcopy?17:36
nerdalertwhere is there a detailed doc on setting up ZODB mount points in zope 3?17:36
rinouI have an object in the new database already, which happens to be a portal_catalog17:37
philiKONnerdalert: there isn't afaik17:39
philiKONnerdalert: just put one container stored in one db into a container stored in the other db17:39
nerdalertphiliKON: yeah, I had trouble finding one.  I found one for zope 2 though17:39
philiKONit's as simple as that17:39
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nerdalertphiliKON: do mount points exist in zope 3?17:39
philiKONnot as such17:40
philiKONi just explained how it's done17:40
philiKONzope 2 doesn't do it any different17:40
nerdalertokay, that answers my question17:40
philiKONexcept that it allows you to do it from zope.conf17:40
nerdalertdo you still configure your different storages in zope.conf?17:41
nerdalerthow do you name them?17:41
nerdalertor key them somehow17:41
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J1mrinou, I mean whatever works for the object.17:42
J1mnerdalert, you are probably missing the simplicity that philiKON  is trying to convey.17:42
J1mThere are no mounts in z3 because mounts are no-longer needed.17:43
J1mzodb now supports cross-database references.17:43
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J1mOTOH, there are certain dark corners/pitfalls that aren't yet well documented.17:44
philiKONit would be nice if this whole procedure were documented17:44
philiKONat least in zope 2 it's user friendly17:44
philiKONi'm not saying it's harder in zope 3, but perhaps a bit less obvious17:44
nerdalertJ1m: okay, that makes sense, but I'm still confused about how I would actually get access to another storage17:44
philiKONanyway, to answer nerdalert's question17:45
J1mif you have a connection, call get_connection(database_name)17:45
J1mso for example, if I want to access on object in foo:17:45
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philiKONah, didn't know that17:46
J1mso you get the connection and then use it to get the object you want.17:46
philiKONdo i have to close that connection again?17:46
philiKONthat's very cool17:46
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J1mIn multidatabases, connections are managed as a collection.17:46
philiKONi only knew that you coudl access the databases by getUtility(IDatabase, 'foo')17:47
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philiKONso if i did   conn = getUtility(IDatabase, 'foo').open(), would that be equiavlent?17:47
nerdalertJ1m: if I store a reference to that object in another storage, is the connection automatically reopened when I try to access it?17:47
J1mYeah, but that's not how application develoeprs should acess multiple databases.17:47
J1mnerdalert, yes17:47
philiKONok, gotcha17:47
philiKONas for naming, this is done in zope.conf17:47
J1mThe reason is that a connection in one database always needs to use the *same* connection when accessing objects in another database.17:48
J1mThat's why ZODB does this connection management.17:48
philiKONyeah, makes sense17:48
nerdalertJ1m: do I have to get_connection programmatically, or is there also a zcml configuration directive for that?17:48
philiKONnerdalert: J1m just showed you how to get to it17:49
J1mThe second part of your connection makes no sense to me.17:49
J1mThe second part of your question makes no sense to me.17:49
J1mbasically, call the get_connection method of a connection you already have.17:50
nerdalertphiliKON: I think your paste answers the question I had about naming DBs17:50
philiKONnerdalert: anyway, if you have a blog, this would be a good time to put it to use and document this for the rest of the world :)17:51
nerdalertnerdalert: hehe.  sounds good17:51
philiKON(and make sure the feed is on
J1mYou could reference the existing documentation at:17:53
J1mThat file is fairly well hidden.17:53
J1mOnly the worthy are told about it. You should be proud. ;)17:54
wiggydocumentation shouldn't be in blogs though17:58
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nerdalertJ1m: thanks =)18:11
nerdalertphiliKON: and thank you =)18:12
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* markusleist pays tribute to philiKON, too18:21
markusleistProblem solved, solution found in the API-Doc of your book:18:22
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markusleistmy obj1: print self.context.getObjectId(): b4a7ee9c596f6c44113629f4293e8debb18:24
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markusleistthe find obj2: obj2 = traverse(self,"/14d2768d378cda7dc923283a4d58ff572", request=self.request)18:24
markusleistprint obj2.getObjectId()18:24
markusleistprint obj2.getObjectId(): 14d2768d378cda7dc923283a4d58ff57218:24
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markusleistthere we are, thanx18:25
markusleistby: from zope.traversing.api import traverse18:26
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rloI am trying to figure out if I can create per field permission based constraints in an interface.  I.e. zope.Public can see and modify this field but only display this other field if the principal has zope.ManageContent permission19:09
rloSay I want anonymous users to provide feedback, but I want any logged in user to be able to attach a document, can I do this at tthe interface level?19:10
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J1mrlo, you can't state permission requirements as part of an interface definition.19:20
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rloJim is there a way to do it in zcml? I hope my question  makes sense19:23
J1mYour orginal questions doesn't make sense, since zope.Public is a permission.19:23
J1mYou can make permission declarations in zcml.19:23
rloI am used to plone's AT and defining a field/widget and setting the permissions on the widget itself19:23
rloI am trying to discern if I need a new way of thinking19:24
J1minterfaces are much narrower in scope that AT schemas.19:24
J1mYou need a new way of thinking.19:24
rloor if the same form can appear differently to different permission levels19:24
rloI see19:24
J1mzope.schema is only supposed to be specification.19:24
J1mOther features, like widgets are added via adaptation.19:25
J1mYou can use interfaces in permission declarations in zcml.19:25
rlostill new here and using formlib to magically adapt widgets to schemas for me:(19:25
J1mso you can say "you need this permission to access that interface".19:25
J1mwell, the adaptation is normally fairly automatic.19:26
rloBut I assume I can only make permission definitions on the whole interface, not on parts19:26
J1mBut there are separation of converns.19:26
J1mrlo, yes19:26
rloIt sounds like I really need to interfaces on for anon and one for authenticated19:26
J1mAT schemas mix lots of concerns, which is a Zope 2 tradition.19:27
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J1mHonestly, I don't have time to help you work out your specific use case. Sorry.19:27
rlothanks for the answers19:27
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J1mAre there fields/widgets for doing simple file upload?21:34
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philiKONuse the Bytes field21:44
J1mThat loads the file into a string.21:45
J1mI want a file.21:45
philiKONi don't know of such a thing21:45
J1mIt's not a big deal for what I'm working on atm, I'm just surprized we don't have this.21:45
philiKONoh, hang on21:45
timtephiliKON: I found out the problem with loads of open db connections, I needed to do request.close() after calling ZPublish.Publish.publish()21:46
philiKONJ1m: but apparently, this is just a widget as well, not a file field21:46
philiKONJ1m: i think the reason we don't have this  yet is that blobs are fairly new21:47
J1mhm, oh well.21:47
J1mThere are other applications that blobs.21:47
philiKONbecause i don't see how a file field would work for persistent objects any other way21:47
J1mLike uploading files for processing.21:47
J1mNot everything gets stored. :)21:48
philiKONi guess nobody had to deal with this so far then21:48
philiKONa volatile file handle21:48
J1moh well21:48
philiKONgiven that the publisher already hands you a file handle upon upload, this shouldn't be too hard to do21:48
philiKON(the widget part)21:48
J1mor the field part for that matter.21:48
J1mI guess it isn't anyone's priority.21:49
J1mI don't *need* it for what I'm doing atm.21:49
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