IRC log of #zope3-dev for Thursday, 2007-09-20

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tjsis there a counterpart to dottedname.resolve.resolve() that actaully takes a class and returns a dotted name?04:43
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srichtertjs: Klass.__module__ + '.' + Klass.__name__04:46
tjsheh, to easy :)04:47
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wiggythere's a convenience method or 3 out there as well09:46
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romanofskimoin :)10:17
baijumHi kushal10:17
kushalbaijum, at last started learning :)10:17
baijumkushal, good. feel free to ask questions in this channel or zope3-users list :)10:19
kushalbaijum, ok10:19
baijumkushal, BTW, are you using zopeproject or tar ball ?10:20
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kushalbaijum, I installed the tarball10:21
baijumkushal, ah. ok, but I would suggest zopeproject, see my screencast: (updated version)10:22
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kushalbaijum, cool, finished10:29
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kushalbaijum, going for lunch, will come back and talk10:30
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kushalbaijum, it is cool10:45
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kushalbaijum, virtualenv is not installing10:54
baijumkushal, what is the error coming, can you paste it here:
kushalbaijum, doing10:55
kushalgot it, they blocked my Internet connection for the virtual system10:57
baijumkushal, btw, virtualenv is not mandatory, but an isolated working environment is always good while exploring something new.11:01
kushalbaijum, ok11:01
kushalbaijum, I also have zopeproject for grok iirc11:01
baijumkushal, that is grokproject, very similar to zopeproject (I guess grokproject will use zopeproject in future)11:03
kushalmy mistake :)11:03
kushalbaijum, everything is installed properly11:05
baijumBTW, are you using zc.buildout's 'eggs-directory' option, see my post:
baijumIt would be better to use 'eggs-directory' option, so that buildout can make use already downloaded eggs11:08
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kushalbaijum, I took the default option and directory for eggs11:13
baijumkushal, ok, next time onwards use that option in your global configuration ($HOME/.buildout/default.cfg) so that all your buildouts can share eggs11:14
kushalbaijum, ok11:15
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ignasanyone familiar with i18n workings of zope3?14:26
ignasin tal templates14:26
ignasdo i need i18n:translate="" for tags that contain "msgids coming from sourcecode" and "literal strings that i want translated"14:28
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ignasor just for literal strings14:28
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Crippsmoin :P16:09
Cripps... I'm getting some interesting behaviour here ... when I pass ensureUtility() a name="catalog" option, it adds the utility to MySite.getSiteManager()['default'] with a uuid ...16:11
Cripps... wait a second ... that has to do with something I wrote :/16:11
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Crippsmorning J1m16:17
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Crippsokay, now here's a doozy: I have overrided the default ContainerNameChooser with a uuid generator. Because of this, my siteManager uses my uuid generator. How would I go about getting the siteManager to either 1)not use the default name chooser, or 2)use specified names for objects on object creation ?16:28
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ignasCripps: do not override the default name chooser?16:28
ignasmight help ...16:28
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Crippsignas: is that the *only* way to get the site manager to not use the uuids?16:29
ignasnot the *only*, but the right one ...16:29
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ignasyou can add an if in your namechooser that checks for the type of the context16:30
ignasand does different things for different objects16:30
ignasbut that would be *wrong*16:30
Crippsyeah ... pretty much the *only* thing that doesn't use the uuids is the siteManager ...16:31
Crippsbut, I guess I'll go back and *not* override the NameChooser, and see how that turns out.16:31
ignasusually you add a namechoser for some interface16:32
ignasand apply that interface to containers16:32
ignasthat should use the namechooser in zcml16:32
ignasinstead of overriding the global one16:32
Crippsignas: get this: the interface my name chooser is declared for is ""  ... heh ;)16:33
ignasnot a good idea16:33
Crippsand I'm learning precisely why right now.16:33
Crippsso the best idea, then, is to make a marker interface, and apply that interface to the containers I want to use my uuid generator ... correct?16:34
ignasthrough <class> directive in zcml for example16:35
Crippssounds reasonable then. I guess I'll work on it.16:35
Crippsyes ... <class class=MyClass><Implements="MyUUID.Marker.Interface"/></class>16:36
Cripps... more or less.16:36
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sureshvvquestion on formlib... how to I get the error messages to be displayed in local language16:39
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mgedminsureshvv: by using ugly hacks16:58
mgedminactually, wait a second, aren't these already messageids?16:58
mgedminI recall Zope 3 doing not-nice things like MyErrorClass.__doc__ = _("Error message")16:59
mgedminnext to the definition of MyErrorClass16:59
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srichterJ1m: when was the ZF election?17:01
srichterI did not receive an invite to vote17:01
sureshvvmgedmin: formlib still displays "There were errors" in English even though the messages on the field shows up correctly in Dutch17:02
mgedminthat's strange, since zope.formlib.form has17:02
mgedmin            self.status = _('There were errors')17:02
mgedminso it should be translated17:02
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sureshvvmgedmin... I checked the .po file and the corresponding messages there are blank17:04
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mgedmindoes't blank mean "use the original because there's no translation"?17:11
markusleistis there a subscriber-point for shutdown-notice a zope3-application (like handler=".bootstrap.bootStrapSubscriberDatabase" which is called on startup)?17:16
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mgedminI think not18:07
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J1mmgedmin, I think there might be.  I think shutdown might actually be done via an event.18:16
markusleistAha, which event?18:16
J1mdon't know :)  I'd have to look it up.18:17
markusleist... i have some threads and have to shutdown them "clean", by calling a special thread_stop-function18:18
mgedminthere's IProcessStartingEvent and IDatabaseOpenedEvent, but I don't see their opposites18:19
J1mNope, utilities are used instead.18:22
J1mNo event.18:22
J1mYou could create your own utility that wrapped the existing onces and generated an event.18:22
J1m(See IServerControl.)18:23
markusleistok, thanks18:23
philiKONJ1m: i think IServerControl should go18:27
philiKONwell, or at least we can't rely on it being there anymore18:27
philiKONe.g. with paste deployment, zope isn't in charge of the process anymore18:28
philiKONit can't possibly know how it's being invoked and how to shut down the process18:28
J1mI think the original use case is valid.18:28
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philiKON(i think this part of the application controller is a classical example of how zope thinks of itself as owning the app space)18:29
philiKONwhat's the original use case?18:29
J1mControl the process through the web.18:29
J1mThere should be a way to satisfy that use case.18:30
philiKONok. if that use case is valid, then it sure isn't zope's business18:30
philiKONwhichever provides the process management, e.g. paste, should provide the means18:30
J1mThere's been a proposal from the CherryPy guy to define an event system to provide or integrate with this sort of control.18:30
J1mThen it also needs to provide hooks.18:31
J1ma server control implementation could then use these hooks.18:31
philiKONsounds sensible18:31
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J1mRegardless, there really should be a shutdown event.18:31
ignashow is i18n extract treating zcml conditionals? is it exploring both branches?18:31
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philiKONignas: probably not18:32
philiKONignas: at least i doubt. but iw ould just try it out :)18:32
philiKONJ1m: i wonder if we can guarantee that it'll be dispatched upon hitting Ctrl-C in the shell...18:33
mgedminwhy not?  KeyboardInterrupt can be caught18:33
mgedminwell, if you use paste or something, then things do get interesting18:34
philiKONi just think zope should stop pretending to own the app/process entirely. that said, i'm all for covering the use cases, but probably they're best implemented at a different level now18:34
ignaslike a wsgi middleware that adds server control?18:35
ignasprocess control18:35
philiKONif a middleware could do it, then the app could do it as well18:36
philiKONi think the gateway has to provide this functionality18:36
ignasoh, just thought about it18:36
philiKONand some gateways will probably unlike provide it... like, apache :)18:36
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J1mphiliKON, This is s didcussion for the web-sig list, after reviewing the existing proposal.18:46
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CrippsI'm passing a string into ensureUtility as the name for my catalog (i.e. name="catalog") ... but I'm getting a failure/traceback from the nameChooser utility (the Zope default name chooser) that says "type object Catalog has no attribute 'rfind'"  ... the call I make to ensureUtility is: ensureUtility(event.object, ICatalog, Catalog, Catalog, name="catalog"); Catalog was imported from .... if Catalog is not the right th18:49
Crippsing to use for 'type' then what is?18:49
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philiKONCripps: ensureutility isn't an official API. we'd have to read its source, which is something you could as well :)18:52
CrippsphiliKON: it has been something that I've been doing, trying to figure it out.18:52
philiKONanyway, rfind is something usually found on strings18:52
Crippsthat's odd, though ... if it's in the zope *core* why isn't it *official* API?18:52
philiKONlots of stuff is in the zope core18:53
ignasname = chooser.chooseName(utility_type, utility)18:53
ignaslooks fishy18:53
philiKONyeah, definitely18:53
philiKONCripps: look up the definition for chooseName()18:53
philiKONtakes an object and a name18:53
philiKON(not necessarily in that order)18:53
philiKONanyway, ensureUtility isn't official until it's actually documented in an interface18:53
ignasa name and an object18:53
ignasso i guess utility_type might be a string18:53
Crippsinteresting. if that's the case, I wonder what I should be using for the utility_type string ... that's something I can probably figure out on my own.18:54
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Crippsahhhh ... I see exactly. Yeah, utility_type is a poorly named variable. If utility_type is passed in, and expected to be a string, name='' shouldn't even *be* in that function declaration.18:56
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ignasit should be18:56
ignasthe name is used for lookup18:56
Crippsah ...18:57
ignasand the type is used to *generate* the new name18:57
Crippswell, in the very least, there should be a check done on name.18:57
ignasthere are no guarantees that the name of your new utility will be identical to the type18:57
Crippsif name is '': <generate new name>; elif name is not '': <do checks OR return name>18:57
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ignasname is the "registration name"18:58
CrippsI might do that after hours when I'm not getting paid for it.18:58
ignasand name generated by nameChooser is "storage name"18:58
ignasnot like it's sane18:58
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Crippsit still doesn't make sense for there to be two variables that hold *the same thing* on a function that should check for existence and make a new thing if it doesn't exist.18:59
ignasjust as having deprecation warnings in the code that is not a part of Zope3 API18:59
mgedminI'm sure they hold *slightly different things*18:59
ignasthey are not *the same thing*18:59
Crippswell, the Deprecation warning there only explicitly mentions "asObject=False"18:59
mgedminit's just that nobody here knows what they'e supposed to be19:00
Crippsmgedmin: that is a valid point.19:00
ignasCripps: yes, but even the fact that the warning is in there is not really normal, i mean - if it's not public API, how can it be deprecated ...19:00
CrippsI don't understand the second half of that statement ... it sounds like you're arguing my side in there.19:02
Crippsokay ... either way: I got the issue fixed with my call ...19:04
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CrippsI think that I'll go over in some of my off time and see what I can do to clean stuff up and/or make it more understandable.19:05
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Crippsyeah, that would be nice, wouldn't it? :)19:09
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Crippswow. Here at work, Imma have to sift through a lot of crap to make sure everything gets set up properly on application instantiatin ... I have *a lot* of work ahead of me ;)19:11
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Crippsyish ... we've written about400k of code this summer ...19:16
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* Cripps sighs19:22
CrippsComponentLookupError: (<InterfaceClass>, '')  ... can't you at leas tell me which file and line number this exception was raised in?19:23
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Crippsoh well ... classtime again.19:24
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srichtermkerrin: thanks for helping out with z3c.form!21:08
agroszerhi srichter!21:11
srichteragroszer: hey21:11
srichteragroszer: ready for the travel? :-)21:11
agroszerhas Roger arrived?21:11
agroszernothing packed yet :-)21:11
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srichteragroszer: he should be here in about an hour; but he has a rental car, so I will not pick him up21:12
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mkerrinsrichter: no problem - by the way I have another security related problem - the same one just reported to the zope3-users list - that I need some input21:19
srichtermkerrin: ok, shoot21:19
mkerrina) can I just add the security declarations to zcml without tests and b) zope.View or zope.Public21:19
srichtera) I am okay with that21:20
srichterb) depends on what you want to do21:20
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mkerrina) cool - the test would not be nice to write21:21
srichteryep, testing security with unit tests is extremely hard21:22
mkerrinb) I just need access to some attributes so I think that the zope.Public permission is fine - the user should have already gone through the security mechanism21:22
mkerrinas the problem only relates on displaying error messages21:22
srichterok, then sure21:23
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mkerrincool so just have to fix it now21:25
srichtergreat, thanks21:25
srichtermkerrin: is it the same problem Yuan HOng reported?21:25
srichterok, great21:26
srichterthe second error he sees is due to the fact that sometimes widget is None, so that the templates need to have "|nothing" after the label call21:26
srichter(even better probably; the error view snippet update() method should try to extract the label21:27
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Crippsalright: I win for now ... but alas, it is time for me to head off home. Cheers for now guys.21:29
mkerrinmaybe - I am not seeing this - once I give access to the widgets then everything works for me and I getting the same problems (so text / textarea widgets)21:30
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agroszergood night21:39
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