IRC log of #zope3-dev for Wednesday, 2007-09-26

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mgedminthat's an attempt to pickle zcml configuration actions05:45
mgedminproof-of-concept with some really ugly hacks05:45
mgedminbrings down zope 3 startup time from 3 to 2 seconds on my laptop05:45
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mgedminthe latest egg is broken?06:21
mgedmin    IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/home/mg/src/z3c.formdemo/eggs/'06:21
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romanofskimoin :)10:08
huajiehi romanofski10:22
huajieanyone for a question ?10:22
huajieI have trouble running the doc test form.txt from zope.formlib10:23
lisppaste6huajie pasted "error for form.txt in zope.formlib" at
huajieyeah, indeed I put the log there, thx lisppaste610:25
huajieso that if anyone has time to have a look ...10:26
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naroyou are missing some adapter. I'v got similar error if I forgot to add <include package="..." /> to my configure.zcml. For example if I forgot to include annotation package and tried to annotate object.10:28
naromultiadapter from Int field and Request to Display widget10:29
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huajienaro: ok, I am now trying to understand what you say :)10:34
* naro is not sure what he said too :-s10:35
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TheuniThis is getting worse.10:49
Theunithere are getting more wrong  egg releases and more and more10:50
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TheuniThis is definitely the point where I feel allowing everyone to release eggs is *not* a good idea.10:50
wiggycan you see who is making those releases?10:54
Theuninot immediately10:54
baijumTheuni, I had made a wrong release two weeks back, but now I am very careful about it10:55
TheuniI'll clean up this mess and write a mail.10:56
TheuniThis is still the reason. I can't have anyone upload stuff publically if we can't assure that it works.10:56
TheuniAnd it is *obviously* broken.10:56
baijumI agree, I feel sorry to see a comment like this in my blog:
baijumMay be release manager or release manager verified eggs should go to public ?10:59
TheuniIt's not as simple because that would mean one person having to care for x hundred eggs. That's impossible.11:04
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bigkevmcdin what ways are things broken? the egg format broken? or the actual functionality?11:04
bigkevmcdif the former, then is there a "lint" alike for eggs, if the latter, why aren't the tests catching it?11:05
baijumbigkevmcd, some eggs dependencies not uploaded, some has missing file etc.11:06 would appear there's a need for an egg checker?11:07
baijumbigkevmcd, don't know. May be a buildbot can catch these kind of errors11:07
baijumTheuni, what eggs you are going to clean up now ?11:08
baijumTheun, has a missing dependency on zope.session which is a new package but it's not yet released..may be have to wait sometime11:10
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Theunibaijum: I have a list of 8 eggs11:13
TheuniI need to go through them and clean them up. give me some time.11:13
TheuniI'd like to avoid having collisions with what we are doing here.11:13
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baijumTheuni, ok. May be I can help with one or two if you want ?11:14
TheuniI wrote a mail11:16
TheuniCan you repeat what I did to for and
Theuni(need to check whether the egg is *actually* usable and verify the wrongly released trunk and eventually add a tag for the brown-bagged release)11:17
TheuniI'll start from the other end of the list.11:17
baijumTheuni, ok I will look into those two ( and
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Theuni I found the actual issue.11:44
TheuniThe releases are made as zip files.11:44
TheuniThe tar versions work.11:44
* Theuni thinks11:44
Theunibaijum: ping11:47
TheuniI think you can stop working.11:47
baijumah. ok11:47
TheuniI'll post a mail of what to do and let roger clean it up.11:47
baijumThat would be fine11:47
baijumTheuni, we need *not* to add 'Framework :: Zope3' classifier, if package is generic enough to use outside Zope3 application server, is it ?11:50
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Theunibaijum: probably true, i don't care enough right now =)11:52
baijumok :)11:52
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* baijum it looks like complaints about eggs everywhere <wink>14:08
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rockyare the foliage sprinters in the sprint room now?15:50
gstrattonrocky: yes15:50
rockysrichter too?15:51
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rockyanyone know what justas' irc nick is?15:54
yvlyvl :)15:55
yvlmorning rocky :)15:55
rockyyvl: i'm exhausted -- i think i'm gonna sprint from here in boston today so i'll keep you up-todate on my progress15:56
rockygoing to make sure i have everything committed here now too15:57
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wiggydoes anyone know the magic [versions] thing for buildout that allows me to get a working zope3 (or rather grok 0.10) at the moment?15:58
rockynot i, sorry15:58
yvlthanks, rocky15:58
baijumwiggy, I just send a mail try it16:00
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wiggybaijum: that fixed it, thanks!16:01
baijumwelcome :)16:01
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wiggyis there a clockserver-like thing for zope3?16:08
wiggydo something every so many minutes/hours/days/etc.16:09
wiggylike cron16:09
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* baijum found a nice trick to get versions: /bin/buildout -vvvvv|grep Picked|cut -d : -f 2 (thanks to benji for hint)16:11
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benjibaijum: if you (or anyone else) is a vim user I have a .vimrc addition that lets you load the output of buildout -vvvvvv into a buffer and do :MungeVersions to get a [versions] section16:28
benjireally, that should be made into a little script or something16:29
baijumbenji, can you please paste it somewhere ?16:29
benjisure, one sec16:29
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lisppaste6benji pasted "Script to " at
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wiggybaijum:   ./bin/buildout -vvvvv|sed -ne 's/^Picked: //p' | sort | uniq16:33
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wiggybaijum: that one is better :)16:33
baijumbenji, wiggy:  thanks !16:34
faassenwiggy: horrible, horrible. :)16:40
faassencan't this be a buildout recipe? I heard lovely has something like this.16:40
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wiggyit works so I'm happy :)16:42
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* mgedmin wonders why wiggy is using sort | uniq instead of sort -u16:59
wiggyhardcoded in my mind from before sort got the -u option16:59
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wiggyalso OSX sort has a very different -u16:59
wiggysort -u as unique is a GNUism17:00
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faassenmgedmin: does this eggdeps tool work with buildouts?17:18
mgedminfaassen: yes17:18
faassenmgedmin: how do you install it then?17:18
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mgedminadd a part to the buildout.cfg that uses the egg recipe to install gtkeggdeps + the all other eggs whose deps you want to explore17:19
mgedminrun buildout, then run bin/gtkeggdeps17:19
faassenmgedmin: okay, understood, thanks.17:19
mgedminif you don't have gtk (windows/mac), replace gtkeggdeps with tl.eggdeps and look at plain ascii/graphviz graph17:20
faassenI do have gtk. :)17:20
mgedminwell, you're not the one person in this channel17:20
faassenoh, okay, I thought you meant me when you said 'you' :)17:20
mgedminand I've already heard complaints about my use of gtk rather than, say, wxwidgets17:20
faassenoh, okay. :)17:20
mgedminright, that was a generic "you"17:21
hazmatmgedmin, where does eggdeps live?17:21
mgedminhazmat: cheeseshop17:21
hazmatcool, thanks17:22
mgedminWebMaven: that email is at if you're interested17:22
hazmatfaassen, did you ever have a chance to look over the parallel and adapted patches i sent for hurry.workflow17:22
faassenhazmat: unfortunately not, I've just had time enough to feel guilty about not doing it. :)17:23
faassenmgedmin: okay, a snag concerning pygtk. I'm not using my system's python with the buildout I'm testing this with, which means gtk cannot be imported. :)17:26
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mgedminis pygtk available as an egg?  perhaps I should declare a dependency on it?17:27
faassenmgedmin: I tried, but it fails miserably. :)17:27
faassenmgedmin: so please don't. :)17:27
faassenmgedmin: I mean, there's one pygtk on the cheeseshop, but it's a bz2 file and easy_install throws up on it.17:27
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faassenmgedmin: I hope your tool can eventually we used to cut some egg links to make the dependency graph more sane. :)17:31
mgedminthat's the reason for its existence:
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faassenmgedmin: argh, trying the buildout with the system python makes me run into the famous ubuntu docutils problem.17:32
faassenmgedmin: now how did one resolve that...17:32
mgedminalso, credits to Thomas Lotze for tl.eggdeps which does all the hard bits (extracting the dependency graph)17:32
faassenokay, resolved. I'm becoming a buildout jocky this way. :)17:33
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faassenmgedmin: yay, your gtkdeps is running now. :)17:36
ignasfaassen: told you ;)17:36
faassenmgedmin: too bad I had to use my system python, it also shows other crap.17:36
faassenignas: told me what? that using the system python sucks? I know this. :)17:36
mgedminfaassen: pass an egg name (or names) on the command line to ignore other crap17:36
faassenmgedmin: grok currently depends on exactly 100 eggs. :)17:36
mgedminthat's either nice or isn't :-)17:37
faassenI don't know, it's a round number.17:37
ignasfaassen: you are still recomending grok users to use system python, making them feel the same pain17:37
faassenI'd like to make zope.pagetemplate rely on less than 63 eggs first. :)17:37
faassenignas: yeah I know it sucks. I'm not going to fix it by myself though. :)17:38
faassenignas: it also needs to work on windows!17:38
faassenignas: the problem is that all choices have major drawbacks. :)17:38
ignasfaassen: virtualenv works on windws too17:39
ignasor should work ;)17:39
faassenignas: it didn't when it was released, maybe that got fixed in the last week?17:39
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ignasfaassen: it says so in release notes17:39
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ignas0.8.3 Added support for Windows.17:40
faassenoh, cool.17:40
faassenignas: anyway, it's work integrating support for all this, plus there's a drawback when you don't run a system python, which I just ran into.17:40
ignastell me how it works out ;) i'll just copy your approach to make schooltool installable on windows ;)17:40
faassenignas: I wanted to use pygtk.17:40
faassenignas: I *had* to use a system python.17:40
faassenignas: as that was by far the easiest way to make pygtk work.17:41
faassenignas: I'm not volunteering to integrate virtualenv into grok. :)17:41
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* mgedmin writes some documentation on explaining the colours and keys17:43
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ignaswhat is the easies way to list all the variables available in a buildout section?17:57
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WebMavensrichter: one of the problems natea and I were having Monday with pypi was we could not find it's code to figure out whether our difficulties were due to bugs.18:00
* mgedmin suspect the answer to ignas's question is "go read the source code of the recipe"18:00
ignasmgedmin: i was afraid of that18:00
WebMavenSo, where does the pypi code live, anyway?18:00
ignasmgedmin: that would lead to pdb if i want to list their values and etc.18:01
mgedminignas: don't listen to me, I know very little about buildout18:01
ignasoooh, so you can go and svn blame the author of the abysmal search form?18:01
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WebMavenNo, so I can figure out why the 'or' operator in the XMLRPC api causes everything to be returned.18:02
WebMavenmgedmin: thx18:03
mgedminsounds like fun18:03
* mgedmin checks out pypi18:04
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WebMavenAh, OK, now it looks like the API is documented wrong.18:05
WebMavenI'll know after some testing.18:05
* ignas looks at the code18:07
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ignasomg, is that even python18:08
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WebMavenDarn, my experiment blew up.18:09
ignasthat thing looks like it's written in some weird dialect of php18:10
* srichter feels really good about the discussion today; we finally have a healthy discussion and behave like a real community18:10
WebMavenSo, as far as can tell, there is no way to specify an 'or' operator for a pypi search.18:10
mgedminoh noes, now srichter is starting a gun control flame on zope3-dev@18:10
* WebMaven is now worried srichter jinxed it.18:10
ignasWebMaven: well - in web API (not the XMLRPC) there is no way to specify AND18:12
ignasthe default query_packages predicate is AND, but it's ignored as all the terms are passed to it one by one18:12
ignasouch, i thought that someone was lazy18:13
ignasbut it's plain terrible18:13
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mgedminhave you seen pypi's test suite?18:23
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ignasno, should I look at it?18:24
mgedminit's 27 lines long18:24
* mgedmin weeps18:24
mgedminwell, there's also pypi_selenium, so perhaps functional test coverage is better than unit test coverage18:25
ignasi think there are NO testcases in there18:26
ignasit's a selenium checkout18:26
ignasand it's longer  than 27 lines18:27
ignasthere is a doctest in
ignasand the doctest is more than 20 lines long18:27
ignasmgedmin: installing pygtk using buildout is a bit difficult if possible at all18:29
mgedminI always use system python18:29
ignasgood for you :) you have root everywhere ;)18:31
mgedminWebMaven: I reported the pypi xmlrpc search bug at
WebMavenmgedmin: thx!18:36
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WebMavenmgedmin: and thanks for explaining the actual API as well.18:36
* mgedmin has nothing to do and is looking for interesting problems/tasks18:38
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Theunisrichter: ping18:46
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TheuniI'd be happyt to fix it in  *the* form framework18:46
srichterTheuni: pong18:46
Theunibut that's at least two for me18:46
Theuniso i'd like to avoid doing this work multiple times18:46
TheuniI think providing better defaults is good and that's the place where they can applied for all.18:47
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srichterright, I definitely see your problem, but having zope.schema contain more end-user stuff will not be nice18:47
zagysrichter: it is not really enduser stuff. but if a validationerror just tells Too Long, even in python code, that's not very useful18:48
srichterTheuni: OT: where is the list with all the steps needed for 3.4 releases?18:48
WebMavenOK, after mgedmin explained the real API (modulo the existing bug), I have clarified the docs on
srichtermy biggest fear is that whatever you do will not be localized18:48
ignasmgedmin: schooltool dependency graph looks quite nicely18:49
srichterzagy: Theuni: okay, anyways, what are your thoughts?18:49
mgedminignas: are you kidding?18:49
zagysrichter: the doc() of for instance TooLong should say what the limit is and how long the value was18:49
ignasmgedmin: wha, only Zope3 and some more dependencies like hurry query that depends on half of zope by itself ;)18:50
Theunisrichter: it's not more. and it's really just putting in better strings than they are now18:50
Theunilocalisation is already in there18:50
Theuniit's really a small issue18:50
ignasok hurry.query -> zc.catalog -> half of Zope318:50
srichterTheuni: let's go to #error-messages; too much traffic18:51
srichterTheuni: zagy: ping?18:53
zagysrichter: we're having a local discussion/meeting right now.... sorry for the delay18:54
* mgedmin is starting to feel hungry19:00
srichterzagy: ok19:01
srichterTheuni: zagy: there was discussion to write things like: This integer is larger than the max value of 10.19:02
srichterthis cannot be solved within zope.schema19:03
WebMavenTheuni: zagy: have you folks further discussed the possibility of a zalchemy sprint?19:03
srichteralso, fixing the strings in zope.schema will break **a lot** of code19:03
srichterTheuni: zagy: it will also not allow to easily customize the strings on a project-by-project basis19:04
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mgedminphiliKON_: when do you plan to update maintaining-software.txt with the changes you mentioned today on the mailing list?20:01
philiKON_mgedmin: today or tomorrow perhaps20:01
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mgedminI'd feel better if I knew I was reading an up-to-date version20:06
mgedminby the way, is anyone working on fixing those broken eggs?20:07
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mgedminis 3.4.0a1 considered *older* than 3.4.0?20:08
gstrattonmgedmin: yes20:09
mgedminokay, reasonable, even if a bit surprising when one's used to debian20:09
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ignasis there a standard way of having weak dependencies in zcml ?20:13
ignaslike - only activate these adapters if module A is available20:13
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matsignas, there is a condition statement in zcml20:16
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ignasis there a <provide> statement?20:16
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matsignas, i think it is along the lines <include condition="installed my.namespace" package="include.this.namespace" />20:17
ignas"installed"? and how does it determine what's installed?20:18
ignasyou mean xml namespace?20:18
matsshould be the package namespace20:20
mgedminignas: <configure zcml:condition="have apidoc"> ... stuff ... </configure>20:20
mgedminand <meta:provides feature="apidoc" />20:21
mgedminso module A should have a <meta:provides feature="A" />20:22
mgedminand your adapters should each be conditionally included with zcml:condition="have A"20:22
mgedminand if you can't find any documentation for this, blame me20:22
ignasare these order sensitive?20:22
mgedminprobably yes20:22
mgedminzcml is order sensitive :(20:22
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ignasso a mutual weak dependency is not an option i guess ...20:23
* mgedmin is trying to figure out why setuptools won't extract schema.xml from zip20:23
* mgedmin is reading setuptools source and can't find the bug20:23
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mgedminokay, setuptools unpacks schema.xml into a temp dir and then doesn't copy it over20:27
ignasmgedmin: hmm, and what it does if it's a tarball?20:27
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ignasmaybe the function that builds the file list is reading the data from the zip/tar files in different ways20:28
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faassensrichter: for the APIdoc, ignore Jim's webserver stuff. :)20:41
faassensrichter: I can give you guys access to the community managed host, and Jens Vagelpohl can set up the DNS for you.20:42
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lisppaste6tolik pasted "ZEO cache problem" at
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tolikhi, guys! I have a problem with zope instances using zeo20:56
toliki googled for it, seems like a known problem20:57
tolikbut i could not find the way to overcome it20:57
tolikcould someone give me an advice for it?20:58
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tolikat some point my site starts producing System Errors and z3.log gets field with errors like the one in
ignaslooks like broken database objects21:02
ignascan you reproduce it starting with a clean database?21:02
tolikunfortuantely, i can't test it like this (those are production instances and the error apears only under a heavy load)21:06
ignasseen ?21:07
ignasthe tip was not to use sessions shared between ZEO clients21:07
tolikoh, that's a very valuable info, thanks21:10
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tolikby the way, does this also affects sessions as implemented in zope3?21:14
ignasi have no idea21:16
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mgedminfound the bug!22:07
mgedminin projekt01's zip egg the SOURCES.txt in egg-info had CRLF line endings22:08
mgedminI converted it to LF and easy_install extracted schema.xml for me from the zip file22:08
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smmgedmin, nice22:35
smme, I'm still waiting for FoliageSprint to show up in google.. I think the bot has just not come by yet22:36
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philiKON_mgedmin: already reported to the distutils sig, and pje already fixed it22:51
* gstratton_ is thinking he needs a change of career22:51
mgedminyes, I noticed22:51
philiKON_mgedmin: sorry :)22:51
mgedminjust after I spent all that time figuring it out :-)22:52
mgedminstill, it was fun22:52
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WebMavencan anyone tell me how to create a andbox?22:58
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mgedminmartijn writes such long blog entries it feels like work when I'm reading them :/23:25
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mgedminsm: by the way, I got the impression that ZopeExternalEditor is broken on wiki.zope.org23:35
mgedminwhen I try to use it I get a "locked by webdav" error message and my changes don't get saved23:36
mgedmindo you know anything about that?23:36
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smhmm, no23:43
smlet me tweak permissions23:44
smany better now ?23:45
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smworks fine here, with or without use_locks in ~/.zope-external-edit, logged in or as anonymous23:48
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mgedminjust a sec...23:55
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* gstratton_ is incapable of installing zope23:56
mgedminsm: thanks, it works now23:56
smcool.. thanks for the report23:57
smplease ping me if it breaks23:57
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