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| arnarl | how is __debug__ controlled in Zope3? (an instance created using zopeproject) | 14:14 |
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| goschtl | Hi how can i override a msgid from zope/app/locales/de/LC_MESSAGES/zope.po in my own products po file? | 14:56 |
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| afd__ | is there anything for z3 that is similar to the PropertySheets from z2? I'd like to have a "central preferences system" that is configurable TTW | 15:30 |
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| afd__ | now that I put it this way, maybe the preferences package might help... | 15:30 |
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| benji | srichter or philiKON: can one of you guys do the release dance for svn+ssh://svn.zope.org/repos/main/zope.sendmail/tags/3.5.0b1 sometime, or give me pypi access for it? | 16:09 |
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| srichter | benji: I do not have access to zope.sendmail, but both Fred and Jim do | 16:30 |
| benji | darn | 16:30 |
| benji | this permission thing seems to be a little messy | 16:30 |
| srichter | benji: I wrote a script that allows you to set those permissions from the command line | 16:31 |
| benji | yep, I saw that; will certainly come in handy | 16:31 |
| srichter | benji: Ask J1m and Fred to run it with your and my username for all the packages they own (there is an option for that) | 16:31 |
| srichter | benji: I'll run it now with your username on all of my packages | 16:32 |
| benji | ok, thanks | 16:32 |
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| srichter | benji: btw, it would be good for you to run it as well for a couple of trusted users, since there are packages that only you own, such as zc.testbrowser | 16:34 |
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| benji | yep, good idea | 16:34 |
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| srichter | benji: you have now access to all the packages I have access to | 17:03 |
| benji | thanks; I'll try to recipricate a little later | 17:04 |
| ignas | srichter: by the way, schooltool trunk and release both work and fail no tests with either a tarball and the eggs from KGS. Thanks for all the effort. | 17:17 |
| srichter | ignas: yipee! | 17:17 |
| srichter | ignas: I have added the packages you mentioned in your roundup to KGS, so all the Zope Project related packages that ST uses should be controlled by the KGS now | 17:18 |
| ignas | cool | 17:19 |
| ignas | is there a way to test "where from" an egg was downloaded | 17:19 |
| ignas | because while i can't see for example zope.file in the KGS index page | 17:20 |
| ignas | it still gets downloaded from somewhere | 17:20 |
| ignas | oh | 17:20 |
| ignas | :) http://download.zope.org/zope3.4/zope.file/ is there | 17:20 |
| ignas | but you can't see it in http://download.zope.org/zope3.4/ | 17:20 |
| ignas | so i guess buildout finds the package by going to the url directly, didn't think about such possibility when i was testing | 17:21 |
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| srichter | ignas: yes, I am pretty sure buildout goes directly to index-url/package-name | 17:23 |
| srichter | ignas: however, it should show up in th eoverview as well | 17:23 |
| benji | in the newest buildout there's an option to not follow the links specified in a distribution | 17:25 |
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| srichter | benji: oh, this is great; | 17:26 |
| srichter | benji: I really hate the download.zope.org/distribution find link everywhere | 17:26 |
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| ignas | is it possible to use several develop instances of the same egg in buildout? i have 2 branches checked out, and i want one "test" script to run tests with one branch, and another "test2" script to run tests with another branch | 17:29 |
| ignas | like hmm, putting develop = foo in the [test] block not in the [buildout] block | 17:30 |
| srichter | yes | 17:30 |
| srichter | let's say you have: | 17:30 |
| srichter | /myproject | 17:30 |
| srichter | /branch1 | 17:31 |
| srichter | /branch2 | 17:31 |
| srichter | mmh, no I take that back | 17:31 |
| srichter | I think you can't | 17:31 |
| srichter | it does not make much sense either, because Python can only load one version of a package at a time | 17:32 |
| ignas | i guess j1m accepts patches :( | 17:32 |
| ignas | yes, i know | 17:32 |
| J1m | This limitation runs deeper than that, | 17:32 |
| ignas | but buildout can generate 1 script with 1 python path for FOO | 17:32 |
| ignas | and another script with pythonpath another branch of FOO | 17:33 |
| J1m | Develop egg links don't have version numbers in their names. | 17:33 |
| J1m | so there's no way to have multiple develop eggs fior the same project unless you put them in separate directories. | 17:33 |
| J1m | (I only guess that it will work then.) | 17:33 |
| ignas | at least that's what i will do manually, until next bin/buildout deletes my test2 script | 17:34 |
| srichter | J1m: so you would have to start a new sub-process for each branch of the develop egg, right? | 17:34 |
| J1m | No. | 17:34 |
| J1m | Only one branch could be used in a script at a time. | 17:34 |
| srichter | right, ok | 17:34 |
| J1m | That's not the main issue. | 17:34 |
| J1m | The main issue is the link names. | 17:34 |
| ignas | J1m: really? i mean i have '/home/ignas/src/lyceum-buildout/lyceum/src' in my bin/test , all i want is bin/test2 that would have '/home/ignas/src/lyceum-buildout/lyceum-branch-with-a-feature/src' instead | 17:36 |
| * srichter thinks that a simple shell script calling both test commands in a row is the most economical solution ;-) | 17:36 | |
| ignas | or are you talking about problems with buildout internals | 17:36 |
| J1m | I'm talking about the way setuptools works and how that interacts with the way buildout works. | 17:36 |
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| J1m | buildout gives you a *single* develop eggs directory. | 17:37 |
| ignas | oh, the paths are generated by setuptools | 17:37 |
| J1m | setuptools only lets you have one develop egg for a project in a directory. | 17:37 |
| J1m | yes | 17:37 |
| ignas | from the develop-eggs directory, not by buildout from "develop = lyceum" block | 17:37 |
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| ignas | i see | 17:37 |
| J1m | so I could allow multple develop eggs directory but then you'd have to be able to specify which one to use when building develop eggs. It thens starts to get a lot more complicated than I think the use case justifies. | 17:39 |
| J1m | If you want to test multiple branches, it would be much simpler to just use separate buildouts. | 17:39 |
| J1m | BTW, I've been thinking of writing a recipe for doing build outs. | 17:39 |
| J1m | so you could have a meta-buildouts that coordinated other buildouts. | 17:40 |
| ignas | it won't really help me, i am using separate pythons for every buildout at the moment | 17:40 |
| ignas | so the "add a new buildout" operations is a bit expensive | 17:40 |
| J1m | I don't see that that matters. | 17:40 |
| J1m | buildouts already support using multiple python interpreters. | 17:40 |
| ignas | i have compiled libxml like 20 times yesterday | 17:41 |
| J1m | I assume that is because you are building the library as part of the buildout. | 17:42 |
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| ignas | using a cmmi recipe , it becomes very frustrating after a while | 17:42 |
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| J1m | I wonder why you were building 20 times. | 17:42 |
| ignas | had to fully test and release a lot of packages | 17:43 |
| ignas | some buildout configurations | 17:43 |
| ignas | and check that they are using KGS properly, and that they work with KGS and my own egg repositories | 17:44 |
| ignas | both - the code in the packages, and related buildouts for projects | 17:44 |
| srichter | you mean you built lxml or libxml? :-) | 17:44 |
| ignas | libxml2 | 17:44 |
| J1m | There's an obvious trade off there. | 17:44 |
| J1m | It is often attractive to build libraries as part of the buildout so you know what you have, | 17:45 |
| J1m | But, of couse, that makes the buildout take a lot longer. | 17:45 |
| srichter | oh, I see libxml gets build with buildout | 17:45 |
| srichter | I jhust use the system libml2 version | 17:45 |
| ignas | it's not about me knowing what I have, it's about me knowing what "they" have | 17:46 |
| srichter | works great for me | 17:46 |
| J1m | In our older buildouts, we built local Python's too. That used to drive me nuts. :) | 17:46 |
| srichter | he he | 17:46 |
| ignas | debuging Zope3 egg conflicts in fedora is something i don't want to do, and i don't really know how to use system libxml while avoiding system zope3, pytz and docutils | 17:46 |
| ignas | same for ubuntu | 17:47 |
| ignas | but with ubuntu I at least know how to work around conflicts ... my users don't ... | 17:47 |
| J1m | A distribution that requires a system library will normally use system libraries by default, irrespective of which Python is used. | 17:48 |
| J1m | libxml used to be a major pita on redhat-based systems. | 17:49 |
| * benji still has nightmares about libxml2 | 17:49 | |
| ignas | so if there is some way to create a "virtual python" or a "virtual env" thingie that includes PIL and libxml2, and python-ldap without using the rest of the python packages on the system | 17:49 |
| J1m | Because the include-file layout was unusual. | 17:49 |
| ignas | please tell me | 17:49 |
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| J1m | Are you talking about reusing a Python extension or a system library? | 17:50 |
| ignas | python extensions | 17:50 |
| J1m | OK, well, that's different. | 17:50 |
| J1m | I've heard that virtual Python and buildout work together. | 17:50 |
| ignas | i know, i am using it | 17:51 |
| srichter | yes, it does work very well | 17:51 |
| ignas | i am using a mixed script | 17:51 |
| ignas | that does both | 17:51 |
| J1m | It would be nice if buildout had an option to specify additional directories to search for eggs. | 17:51 |
| ignas | creates virtual python and bootstraps buildout | 17:51 |
| srichter | virtualenv asllows you to use system python with buildout, which is very good in companies where you do not get much control on the server | 17:51 |
| srichter | J1m: find-links works | 17:52 |
| J1m | Then you could have a buildout that had some of these common things and get other buildouts to use them. | 17:52 |
| ignas | that makes my setup different from the one used by my users ... | 17:52 |
| J1m | Yeah, I suppose it does, which I find a little disturbing. :) | 17:53 |
| J1m | ignas, true | 17:53 |
| ignas | and explaining an english teacher how to set up 2 connected buildouts is something i just don't want to do | 17:53 |
| ignas | every time someone from <insert random country here> wants to try out schooltool | 17:53 |
| J1m | ignas, btw, have you looked at the new source-release script? | 17:54 |
| ignas | no, not really | 17:54 |
| J1m | You should. | 17:54 |
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| ignas | what does it do? | 17:54 |
| J1m | It creates self-contained source releases. :) | 17:54 |
| ignas | self-contained? | 17:54 |
| * srichter is reminded to attempt making a Zope 3.4 release using source-release | 17:54 | |
| J1m | Which t=you could then use as input to system packaging tools. | 17:54 |
| J1m | yes | 17:55 |
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| ignas | not sure how it is different from having a small "buildout" that points to an egg | 17:55 |
| J1m | http://pypi.python.org/pypi/zc.sourcerelease | 17:55 |
| J1m | ignas, I don't see how it is at all similar. :) | 17:55 |
| srichter | ignas: all the eggs are pre-downloaded | 17:56 |
| J1m | anyway, we're using this to create rpms, including source rpms. | 17:56 |
| ignas | hmm, might be better that having users download everything from the kgs as separate pieces i guess | 17:56 |
| srichter | ignas: it is definitely a good option for ST | 17:57 |
| J1m | It means people can try stuff out without having access to the network. | 17:57 |
| ignas | J1m: what about the cmmi libxml2 recipe? | 17:57 |
| J1m | what about it? | 17:57 |
| ignas | ok, i can just put it in there | 17:57 |
| ignas | and have file:/// link i guess | 17:58 |
| J1m | no | 17:58 |
| ignas | oh, it does that for me | 17:58 |
| J1m | It would wirth anything that respects the download cache option. | 17:58 |
| J1m | It works with anything that respects the download cache option. | 17:58 |
| J1m | so cmmi and zc.recipe.egg. | 17:58 |
| ignas | download cache option? | 17:59 |
| J1m | Yes. | 17:59 |
| J1m | buildout supports a download cache. | 17:59 |
| J1m | so you don't have to download the same things over and over for different buildouts. | 17:59 |
| ignas | hmm, i guess i should put it in my default.cfg | 18:00 |
| ignas | i was using common eggs directory for that | 18:00 |
| J1m | (It was added in part to eventually help in creating source distros.) | 18:00 |
| J1m | so if a buildout downloads eggs and via cmmi, then the source-release script can make self-contained source releases without requiring changes to the buildout. | 18:01 |
| J1m | a common eggs directory doesn't help with cmmi or with eggs buildt using the custom recipe. | 18:02 |
| ignas | i see, what is the syntax of the configuration directive for download cache? | 18:03 |
| J1m | dude, it's in the buildout docs. | 18:05 |
| ignas | :) | 18:06 |
| ignas | hmm, funny - found 1 bug | 18:07 |
| ignas | ok | 18:07 |
| ignas | not really | 18:07 |
| ignas | it seems that tempfile.mkdtemp('source-release1') creates a directory | 18:10 |
| ignas | and then shutil.copytree(urlparse.urlparse(url)[2], co1) tries to create it again | 18:10 |
| ignas | and fails because it is already in there | 18:10 |
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| ignas | it's all because i have passed a file:// url that ends with a slash | 18:10 |
| J1m | Yeah, it would be nice to robustify that. | 18:16 |
| ignas | my first "bug" was that i have passed the path to the buildout.cfg instead of passing the path and buildout.cfg as a separate parameter | 18:18 |
| ignas | because well - buildout.cfg is in there ;) | 18:18 |
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| ignas | J1m: why does install.py include paths that are pointing at "/tmp/tmp*****" directories? | 18:26 |
| ignas | how does that work? | 18:26 |
| J1m | ignas, I have no idea what you are talking about. | 18:26 |
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| * J1m isn't keeping the source in front of me in readiness for the next question | 18:27 | |
| lisppaste6 | ignas pasted "The install.py that was generated by zc.sourcerelease" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/50527 | 18:28 |
| J1m | Hm, interesting.... | 18:29 |
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| J1m | That appears to be a fairly harmless buglet. | 18:30 |
| J1m | It is generating garbage options that are overridden by later non-garbahe options. | 18:31 |
| J1m | I hadn't noticed that because the end result works. | 18:31 |
| ignas | i see, other than that - it works, now just to make the tarball "isolated" | 18:31 |
| ignas | or will it not conflict with system python packages | 18:32 |
| J1m | The tar ball should already be isolated. | 18:32 |
| J1m | I don't know what you are asking. | 18:32 |
| J1m | To install the tar ball, you will run the install script with your Python of choice. | 18:33 |
| J1m | The source dist doesn't include Python onless you build that into your buildout. | 18:33 |
| J1m | unless | 18:33 |
| ignas | i am asking - does it ignore site-packages of the system python? | 18:34 |
| J1m | 1. It doesn't use the system Python unless you run the install script with the system Python. | 18:34 |
| ignas | i see | 18:35 |
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| ignas | my users will run it with system python | 18:35 |
| J1m | 2. It doesn't ignore site packages of the Python you run it with. | 18:35 |
| J1m | Then it will pay attention to system Python. | 18:35 |
| ignas | that's why i am talking about "isolating" , i will just modify install.py to create a virtual python | 18:35 |
| ignas | and then run the buildout using that | 18:35 |
| J1m | There is almost certainly a better way. | 18:36 |
| ignas | like what? | 18:36 |
| J1m | I suggest writing a recipe that installs a virtual Python. | 18:36 |
| J1m | Then, update your buildout to use that. | 18:36 |
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| ignas | you see - recipe uses the system python to run itself | 18:37 |
| J1m | Buildout recipes can use Python interpreters other than the one the buildout is run with, | 18:37 |
| J1m | recipes can use alternate Pythons. | 18:37 |
| J1m | This is documented in the buildout documentation. | 18:37 |
| ignas | last time i have read it - i could not find such an option (i think) | 18:38 |
| J1m | so the buildout can build it's own Python, either from source or by creating a virtual Python and it can set up school tool to use that Python. | 18:38 |
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| ignas | really? i mean last time i have tried doing that - it just didn't work out | 18:39 |
| ignas | i have tried having a cmmi recipe for python, but schooltool was still including site-packages | 18:39 |
| ignas | of the system python | 18:39 |
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| ignas | even though it was using the newly built python | 18:39 |
| ignas | or something like that | 18:40 |
| ignas | in the bin/start-schooltol script | 18:40 |
| J1m | http://pypi.python.org/pypi/zc.recipe.egg#controlling-which-python-to-use | 18:40 |
| ignas | i guess i'll try again | 18:41 |
| J1m | what makes it hard to find out about is that it is a feature of the egg recipe. | 18:41 |
| J1m | (and the other recipes that extend the egg recipe) | 18:42 |
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| J1m | ignas, you have to tell the egg recipe which Python to use, via the Python option. | 18:44 |
| ignas | i have tried doing that before | 18:44 |
| ignas | though i might have been doing it in a wrong way | 18:44 |
| J1m | There is an indirection. | 18:44 |
| J1m | The Python option takes the name of a section that specifies an executable option giving the name of the interpreter to use. | 18:45 |
| J1m | The default for the Python option is "buildout". And the buildout section uses sys.executable as the default value of the executable option. | 18:46 |
| ignas | i think last time i have tried it i have set the "executable" in the "buildout" section | 18:46 |
| ignas | and it didn't work out | 18:46 |
| ignas | and yes - i looked at buildout documentation not the egg recipe onw | 18:47 |
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| * J1m shrugs | 18:48 | |
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| J1m | ignas, http://paste.lisp.org/display/50529 | 18:50 |
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| J1m | This is the buildout.cfg from my ~/bin directory. | 18:51 |
| J1m | I use it to automatically manage soem scritps in my home dir. | 18:51 |
| ignas | How do you bootstrap buildout? one of the problems with older ubuntu is that they have a dysfunctional setuptools package installed | 18:52 |
| ignas | is there a way to get "bin/buildout" working | 18:52 |
| ignas | without bundling buildout eggs | 18:52 |
| ignas | and without getting a virtual python up | 18:52 |
| J1m | Ig you have an existing buildout. you can use that. | 18:52 |
| J1m | If you have an existing buildout. you can use that. | 18:52 |
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| J1m | so, my bin ~/bin dir has a buildout24 script. | 18:53 |
| J1m | so I normally bootstrap using buildout24 bootstrap | 18:53 |
| ignas | i have one, the source distribution will have buildout eggs, but users that will be working with a schooltool checkout - will not have a buildout | 18:53 |
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| J1m | the source distribution has its own copy of setuptools and zc.buildout. | 18:54 |
| J1m | the install script expllicitly adds these to the front of the path, | 18:54 |
| srichter | J1m: cool buildout | 18:54 |
| ignas | yes I know, i was just wondering whether i can get rid of my magic "set up virtual python bootstrap buildout" script completely | 18:54 |
| ignas | by using some kind of "virtual python" recipe | 18:55 |
| srichter | J1m: btw, is PILwoTk available in PyPI? | 18:55 |
| J1m | srichter, no. | 18:55 |
| srichter | ok | 18:55 |
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| srichter | I should add a feature to the KGS to be able to point to locations other than PyPI | 18:55 |
| J1m | srichter, I'm uncomfortable puting it there. I wish someone would convince the author to create a setuptools compat egg. | 18:56 |
| srichter | because there is currently no sane way to specify PIL as a dependency to any package | 18:56 |
| srichter | J1m: yep | 18:56 |
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| srichter | J1m: I am shooting Fredrik an E-mail now offering my help | 19:06 |
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| srichter | J1m: mmh, I actually sent a mail already a month ago without having gotten a response. | 19:08 |
| dennis__ | is there a helpful doc to start using blobs? I need to put more and more files away, and blobs seem like the right way, but not sure what i need to do to prepare the current zodb for it and if there are any catches | 19:14 |
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| dennis__ | (and actually, it's not that they're really big, maybe 100-250kb, just that there are many) | 19:15 |
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| * mgedmin wrangles with easy_install and wins round 1 | 19:33 | |
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| srichter | J1m: I subscribed to the imaging-sig mailing list for Python and hope that Fredrik Lundh will be more responive there. | 23:30 |
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| J1m | srichter, good idea | 23:52 |
| J1m | Thanks for chasing this. | 23:53 |
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