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| supton | anybody have any tips on installing from PYPI zope.interface in mingw+virtualenv on Win32? Using mingw with easy_install works okay globally, but gcc breaks on optimizations in virtualenv | 00:41 |
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| supton | ugh... because windows doesn't support symlinks, tools like buildout and easy_install will not work within virtualenv when C code needs to be built - works fine on linux | 00:58 |
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| ccomb | Hi, when I go to https://translations.launchpad.net/zope3/ it says 'setup needed' or 'no template available' | 14:37 |
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| ccomb | So, what should I do to help on translation, work on the zope.po file found in http://svn.zope.org/zope.app.locales/trunk/src/zope/app/locales/ ? | 14:46 |
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| ccomb | Hi philiKON, when I go to https://translations.launchpad.net/zope3/ it says 'setup needed' or 'no template available'. So, what should I do to help on translation, work on the zope.po file found in http://svn.zope.org/zope.app.locales/trunk/src/zope/app/locales/ ? | 14:46 |
| philiKON | sure | 14:47 |
| srichter | ccomb: I do not like launchpad for translations; I would work on th ePO files directly | 14:47 |
| mujinjun | Why the code example in zope3book didn't work in zope3.3.0, such as the messageboard. | 14:47 |
| ccomb | then I send it to the list or what? | 14:47 |
| srichter | mujinjun: because a lot of things changed between 3.0.0 and 3.3.0 | 14:48 |
| philiKON | ccomb: no, you check it in :) | 14:49 |
| ccomb | If I only had checkin permission | 14:49 |
| mujinjun | and i still can know zope through the zope3book if i wanna use 3.3? | 14:49 |
| mgedmin | hm, formlib's form.Fields.__contains__ does not do what I expected it to do | 14:51 |
| mgedmin | fair enough, given that it's a cross between a list and a dict | 14:52 |
| mujinjun | srichter:Is there no need to update the code example to fit for 3.3? I saw the svn trunk has been removed. I think there will be more newcomers like me to meet such problems. Maybe I could update the codes if i master the zope:-D | 14:56 |
| srichter | mujinjun: I just don;t have time | 14:57 |
| mujinjun | It's ok | 14:57 |
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| srichter | mujinjun: also, if I do another book, I will take a different approach of instructing; my fingers are itching, but my baby boy keeps me from working at it ;-) | 14:58 |
| ccomb | (ok, I'm first doing the job, We'll see later) | 14:59 |
| projekt01 | srichter, you know, that doesn't get better with the baby if they get bigger ;-) | 15:00 |
| mujinjun | srichter:Are you Stephan Richter? the zope3book's author?:P | 15:00 |
| srichter | mujinjun: yes | 15:00 |
| srichter | projekt01: but then I hopefully can work through the night without paying the penalty the next day | 15:01 |
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| projekt01 | srichter, Ah cool, does this mean you will write a book between the baby will sleep the hole night and the next one ;-) | 15:05 |
| mujinjun | I'm lucky to meet the author whose book i was reading a few hours ago. I'm sorry to complain the book's outdate without thinking your own condition. I was gonna to read web component development with zope3 with zope3book, but i'm not sure whether it works. | 15:07 |
| mujinjun | srither,if you colud understand chinese, maybe you could receive more thanks from me:P | 15:09 |
| srichter | mujinjun: no, the complaint is valid; I also lost the copyright by publishing the book, so while I have permission to keep it up-to-date, I could not sell papercopies again | 15:10 |
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| ccomb | The zope POT file contains a reference to the zope3-dev list. It should be replaced with zope-dev | 15:46 |
| ccomb | (zope/app/apidoc/browser/notfound.pt) | 15:47 |
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| natea|boston | srichter: ping | 17:09 |
| srichter | natea|boston: hey | 17:10 |
| srichter | philiKON: STOP, STOP, STOP, please! | 17:10 |
| srichter | It is toptally insane to revert now! | 17:11 |
| philiKON | relax, your split will still be there for zope.app.securitypolicy 3.5.x | 17:11 |
| srichter | but why? | 17:11 |
| philiKON | why? because you guys split away code from a *stable* package | 17:12 |
| philiKON | i'm reverting that | 17:12 |
| srichter | I have to break the KGS policies and promises now for the package | 17:12 |
| srichter | all other 3.4 packages have been fixed to the splitup | 17:12 |
| philiKON | i don't understand why this breaks the KGS | 17:12 |
| philiKON | well, this on ehasn't | 17:12 |
| srichter | because the KGS depends on the Zope 3.4.x series of security policy | 17:12 |
| philiKON | and "fixed" just meant BBB was introduced | 17:12 |
| philiKON | while the split up shouldn't have been done on the 3.4.x line in the first place | 17:12 |
| srichter | I know, it was a mistake | 17:13 |
| philiKON | so, then the KGS will include the fixed version | 17:13 |
| srichter | I misadviced Roger on that | 17:13 |
| philiKON | what's the problem? | 17:13 |
| philiKON | i still don't see why the KGS is affected | 17:13 |
| srichter | why don't you just fix the imports to be correct? | 17:13 |
| philiKON | because that doesn't help | 17:14 |
| philiKON | zope.app.securitypolicy needs more BBB | 17:14 |
| srichter | how so? | 17:14 |
| philiKON | and i'm not going to do this | 17:14 |
| srichter | why not? | 17:14 |
| philiKON | i'm going to fix it the right way | 17:14 |
| srichter | by violating release policy? | 17:15 |
| philiKON | how's that violating release policy? | 17:15 |
| philiKON | where's that polcy? | 17:15 |
| philiKON | zope.app.securitypolicy needs more BBB because grok apparently breaks with the newest release | 17:15 |
| philiKON | i filed a bug last week already | 17:15 |
| philiKON | roger knows about it | 17:15 |
| philiKON | has anythign happened? | 17:15 |
| philiKON | no | 17:15 |
| srichter | I know I saw it | 17:15 |
| srichter | so why not jsut do the deferred import and be done | 17:15 |
| philiKON | because it's still a feature | 17:16 |
| philiKON | which belongs in a feature release | 17:16 |
| philiKON | why is it so problematic to revert this? | 17:16 |
| srichter | okay, it was a mistake | 17:16 |
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| srichter | get over it | 17:16 |
| srichter | let's go on | 17:16 |
| srichter | it won't happen again | 17:16 |
| philiKON | ok, i'll take your word for it | 17:16 |
| philiKON | but why is it so problematic to revert this? | 17:16 |
| srichter | I just spent a lot of time getting the packages to the state they are now | 17:16 |
| philiKON | yes, and that's appreciated | 17:16 |
| philiKON | i still wonder why it's so problematic to revert the split for zope.app.securitypolicy 3.4.x | 17:17 |
| srichter | because zope.app.securitypolicy 3.4.x series is in the KGS; people rely on that | 17:17 |
| philiKON | sooooo? | 17:17 |
| srichter | all other packages (all ftesting.zcml files) have been adjusted to the change | 17:17 |
| philiKON | ah, is ee | 17:17 |
| srichter | I fixed all deprecation warnings that I saw | 17:17 |
| philiKON | ok, i'll get rid fo the 3.4 branch again | 17:18 |
| srichter | thanks a lot | 17:18 |
| philiKON | see, that's all i needed to know :) | 17:18 |
| srichter | (ok, I thought that was obvious ;-) | 17:18 |
| philiKON | srichter: so | 17:18 |
| philiKON | could you then *please* bring back BBB | 17:19 |
| philiKON | and fix the bug | 17:19 |
| philiKON | that i reported | 17:19 |
| srichter | yes, I can, but it would be much easier for you to do, because you have the use case | 17:19 |
| srichter | we have to get away from pointing fingers and act like a community | 17:19 |
| philiKON | listen | 17:20 |
| srichter | just because someone caused a bug does not mean noone else can take care of it | 17:20 |
| philiKON | sorry for "pointing fingers" | 17:20 |
| philiKON | but | 17:20 |
| projekt01 | philiKON, I can't fix the bug because I can't reproduce the bug | 17:20 |
| projekt01 | I have no setup which is affected by the bug | 17:20 |
| srichter | projekt01: just write an import test, I guess | 17:20 |
| philiKON | i made projekt01 aware of the bug more than a week ago already, discreetly | 17:20 |
| philiKON | so at some point i'll have to raise the noise level, i suppose | 17:20 |
| projekt01 | I think we need now for every bug report a setup.py config too | 17:21 |
| philiKON | also, i spoke out of frustration | 17:21 |
| philiKON | projekt01: huh? | 17:21 |
| projekt01 | philiKON, no problem to me | 17:21 |
| philiKON | so i'm sorry if i've been rough on you, srichter | 17:21 |
| philiKON | but as i've said, those are facts | 17:21 |
| philiKON | i'm not expecting an apology | 17:21 |
| philiKON | i'm expecting bugfixes ;) | 17:21 |
| philiKON | i'll do it now | 17:22 |
| philiKON | you know none of this is personal | 17:22 |
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| srichter | thanks | 17:22 |
| projekt01 | philiKON, thanks a lot | 17:23 |
| * philiKON replying to email about setup.py | 17:25 | |
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| projekt01 | philiKON, didn't know that: 'zope.i18nmessageid >= 3.4.2' | 17:33 |
| philiKON | what do you mean? | 17:33 |
| philiKON | anyway, it's something that's important | 17:33 |
| philiKON | my buildout would break | 17:34 |
| philiKON | because zope.i18nmessageid 3.4.0 satisfied the dependency | 17:34 |
| philiKON | while it clearly didn't | 17:34 |
| srichter | I still do not think it is a good idea, since it is very error-prone | 17:36 |
| philiKON | huh? | 17:36 |
| srichter | ideally versions should be only specified in the index | 17:36 |
| philiKON | fact is, accepting *any* version in this case is just wrong. | 17:37 |
| srichter | buildout-based version nailing is okay for an application, but just barely | 17:37 |
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| srichter | philiKON: it's wrong for every case | 17:37 |
| philiKON | i disagree | 17:37 |
| srichter | but let's say zope.i18nmessageid 3.4.1 was also okay, and you just did not see that | 17:37 |
| philiKON | wrong | 17:37 |
| philiKON | then it's a bug | 17:37 |
| srichter | you potentially really break someones setup | 17:37 |
| philiKON | KGS is just a recommendation. it's not a requirement | 17:38 |
| projekt01 | this doesn't let me fix 3.4.1 and use from my own download section | 17:38 |
| philiKON | there's a difference between requirements and recommendations | 17:38 |
| philiKON | projekt01: i don't undersatnd | 17:38 |
| srichter | find-links always extends the index | 17:38 |
| philiKON | zope.app.securitypolicy *requires* a version of zope.i18nmessageid or higher | 17:38 |
| philiKON | i think we're talking about different things here, aren't we | 17:38 |
| projekt01 | another option to fix eggs is to release a version and upload it to a nother download location | 17:39 |
| srichter | so yes, you can have your own distribution dir with a new version | 17:39 |
| philiKON | srichter: not very practical | 17:39 |
| philiKON | an index and a find-links location have different URL semantics | 17:39 |
| srichter | currently you have to do this for any code that uses your non-released packages, which might be closed source, for example | 17:39 |
| philiKON | sure | 17:40 |
| srichter | sure they have different URL semantics, but that's an implementation detail | 17:40 |
| philiKON | joe middleclass programmer doesn't want to create his own find-links location | 17:40 |
| philiKON | just because he wants to upgrade one package | 17:40 |
| philiKON | from the KGS | 17:40 |
| philiKON | heck, i don't ;) | 17:40 |
| srichter | another problem I see with >= 3.4.2 (for example) is that 3.5.0 might not work anymore | 17:40 |
| philiKON | why not? | 17:40 |
| philiKON | then we have a BBB problem | 17:40 |
| philiKON | you can't foresee the future ;) | 17:41 |
| srichter | sure, so ok, in 3.5.0 we have a deprecation woaning that we remove in 3.7 | 17:41 |
| srichter | exactely | 17:41 |
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| srichter | but that's what >= does | 17:41 |
| philiKON | no | 17:41 |
| srichter | yes | 17:41 |
| srichter | it does | 17:41 |
| srichter | the only smart way to do this would be to specify a full bound | 17:42 |
| philiKON | well, so does just 'zope.i18nmessageid' | 17:42 |
| srichter | I think we need to look much more at linux distributions | 17:42 |
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| srichter | they have solved the problem | 17:43 |
| philiKON | they have different use cases, i think | 17:43 |
| philiKON | like, upgrading a particular package | 17:43 |
| srichter | I don't think so; at least wrt versions they are in the same boat | 17:43 |
| philiKON | and note that in llinux distributions, packages actually do have dependencies that look like foo>=5.3 | 17:44 |
| srichter | exactely, in Linux distros, if you upgrade a single package not in the stable set, you are on your own | 17:44 |
| philiKON | right. that's not what i want :) | 17:44 |
| srichter | actually, they nail versions pretty much | 17:44 |
| srichter | well, I do not think that we can do much better, at least not without a lot more experience | 17:45 |
| philiKON | well, versions.cfg loaded from HTTP works now. grok is giving it a good shakeout | 17:45 |
| philiKON | and it actually supports the use cases i can come up with | 17:45 |
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| projekt01 | If a buildout based on KGS can ignore versions defined in eggs then we are fine. | 17:48 |
| philiKON | i think >= and/or <= specifiers in setup.py are actually important and shouldn't be ignored | 17:48 |
| philiKON | but if you want to implement such an option, i wouldn't mind ;) (if it were off by default) | 17:49 |
| philiKON | again the KGS is a recommendation | 17:49 |
| philiKON | setup.py notes actual requirements | 17:49 |
| projekt01 | no it's not a recommendation, it's the only way to make it possible to manage releases | 17:49 |
| srichter | but it locks things into ways that not every project might want | 17:51 |
| projekt01 | the KGS make it again possible to develop on a set of packages e.g. the zope trunk | 17:51 |
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| philiKON | srichter: the locks in setup.py are the ones that are absoluytely necessary | 17:52 |
| philiKON | the software won't work with other versions | 17:52 |
| philiKON | that's what setup.py is for | 17:52 |
| philiKON | with the discussed case, this is the case | 17:52 |
| philiKON | and yes, the KGS is a recommendation. sure, it helps us manage releases etc., but in the end it's just a recommendation. other combinations will (likely) work, but aren't simply tested by us | 17:53 |
| philiKON | that's the idea of the KGS | 17:53 |
| projekt01 | srichter, please, propose the KGS or a dev KGS as a base for our trunk development again. | 17:53 |
| srichter | yeah, I have to do that | 17:53 |
| projekt01 | philiKON, without KGS there is no way to see if a zope.* package will break other zope.* packages | 17:53 |
| srichter | ok, gotta go | 17:53 |
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| philiKON | projekt01: sure | 17:55 |
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| philiKON | projekt01: but that's not the point here | 17:55 |
| philiKON | the whole point is the self-containedness of eggs | 17:55 |
| philiKON | having a KGS is great for managing complex systems composed of eggs | 17:55 |
| projekt01 | that's the bad thing | 17:55 |
| philiKON | but a single egg needs to have proper dependency information | 17:56 |
| philiKON | w/o looking at a KGS | 17:56 |
| philiKON | (apart from the fact that the KGS is just a recommendation) | 17:56 |
| projekt01 | eggs can't define the workd around them, this means they should not try to do it. | 17:56 |
| philiKON | right | 17:57 |
| projekt01 | because if they do that, they define a part of the world around them | 17:57 |
| philiKON | install_requires=['zope.i18nmessageid >=3.4.2'] isn't a definition about the world *around* them | 17:57 |
| philiKON | it's a definition of the world *in it* | 17:57 |
| philiKON | this package needs >3.4.2 because it wants a feature that was introduced in that version | 17:57 |
| projekt01 | no it's a part of the world around them too | 17:57 |
| philiKON | i don't understand how you think that | 17:58 |
| philiKON | it's an intrinsic information of the egg | 17:58 |
| philiKON | it simply doesn't work with 3.4.1 | 17:58 |
| philiKON | it needs 3.4.2 | 17:58 |
| projekt01 | because it's probably also a part of a third party egg | 17:58 |
| philiKON | how's that *not* intrinsic information of the egg? | 17:58 |
| philiKON | i don't understand your last remark | 17:58 |
| projekt01 | and this 3 rd party egg defines <= 3.4.1 | 17:58 |
| projekt01 | then your are locked | 17:58 |
| philiKON | yup, then you have incompatible code | 17:59 |
| projekt01 | so any version lock is bad | 17:59 |
| philiKON | no | 17:59 |
| philiKON | this isn't version lock | 17:59 |
| projekt01 | yes | 17:59 |
| philiKON | listen | 17:59 |
| philiKON | let's say setup.py wouldn't specify >= 3.4.2 | 17:59 |
| philiKON | and you could use all those eggs together | 17:59 |
| philiKON | your code would still break | 17:59 |
| philiKON | because zope.app.securitypolicy actually needs zope.i18nmessageid >= 3.4.2 and your third party egg actually needs <=3.4.1, even though it might not specify it | 18:00 |
| philiKON | so you have a problem *either way* | 18:00 |
| philiKON | so it'd better be explicit in setup.py | 18:00 |
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| projekt01 | I still think nailing down versions is a part of the concept above the aggs e.g. KGS | 18:00 |
| philiKON | i'm not nailing | 18:01 |
| philiKON | >= 3.4.2 doesn't nail at all | 18:01 |
| philiKON | it just specifies a lower bound | 18:01 |
| philiKON | it says "i need a new feature" | 18:01 |
| projekt01 | the KGS is the only place where we can run overall tests | 18:01 |
| philiKON | while that's a true statement, i don't see how it has to do anything with this discussion | 18:03 |
| projekt01 | it doesn't matter if a egg doens't work with another egg, this is only important for the KGS | 18:04 |
| philiKON | i don't udnerstand this statement | 18:04 |
| projekt01 | if KGS will become a base for our development we don't care about egg version working with other egg versions at the egg level | 18:05 |
| philiKON | you might not | 18:05 |
| philiKON | i do | 18:05 |
| philiKON | and everybody who leaves the KGS | 18:05 |
| philiKON | for various reasons | 18:05 |
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| philiKON | you're basically reviving the old tree conceptually | 18:06 |
| philiKON | (i know, i know, you're a big fan of it) | 18:06 |
| projekt01 | I don't understand why yo all try to develop on a per agg base. This won't work | 18:06 |
| philiKON | the whole point of eggs is independence | 18:06 |
| philiKON | then we disagree in this view | 18:06 |
| projekt01 | philiKON, you bug report is not relevant if you say a per egg dev is OK. | 18:06 |
| philiKON | huh? | 18:06 |
| philiKON | per egg development doesn't absolve you from introducing incompatibilities | 18:07 |
| philiKON | we still have rules about that | 18:07 |
| projekt01 | yes, and KGS is the concept for doing this | 18:07 |
| philiKON | it's a tool to check, sure | 18:08 |
| philiKON | it doesn't mean we can be sloppy about specifying version requirements | 18:08 |
| philiKON | there's still a difference between external recommendations (KGS) and intrinsic version dependencies | 18:08 |
| philiKON | but i'm repeating myself :) | 18:08 |
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| amaron_ | i need some advices how to complete specific task | 21:18 |
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| amaron_ | for users (prinicipals) in system i need to have list of login/logout times | 21:19 |
| amaron_ | and time spent online | 21:19 |
| amaron_ | viewable for that user | 21:19 |
| amaron_ | and viewable/changable for admin for all users | 21:20 |
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| amaron_ | are custom annotations for IPrincipal way to do it? | 21:21 |
| amaron_ | or whatever do u suggest? | 21:21 |
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| philiKON | srichter: hey, how would i get new package versions into the KGS? | 21:33 |
| srichter | upload a new controlled-pacakges.cfg file to the dir | 21:37 |
| srichter | it updates every minute, if there is a change | 21:37 |
| srichter | easiest would be to use zope.release/branches/3.4 | 21:37 |
| srichter | build it | 21:37 |
| srichter | you can then say: | 21:37 |
| srichter | ./bin/generate-buildout | 21:37 |
| srichter | ./bin/generate-versions | 21:37 |
| srichter | ./bin/upload | 21:37 |
| srichter | I described this all in a recent mail on zope-dev | 21:38 |
| philiKON | i must've missed that | 21:38 |
| philiKON | i will read that | 21:38 |
| philiKON | thanks | 21:38 |
| srichter | yeah, noone responded to that mail ;-/ | 21:38 |
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| dennis__ | is the webdav support in z3 currently such that i can support a use case where documents are uploaded? (no real further support needed, but don't know how compatible webfolder is). | 21:43 |
| dennis__ | (eeh yeah, so using the windows webfolder approach) | 21:43 |
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| philiKON | rocky: zope.release is quite a neat tool | 21:57 |
| philiKON | err, i meant srichter ;) | 21:57 |
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| rocky | lol | 22:00 |
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| philiKON | srichter: i get loads of failures though :( | 22:09 |
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| srichter | philiKON: where? | 22:23 |
| srichter | philiKON: you have to have several libs installed not to get failures | 22:23 |
| philiKON | yeah, that sucks | 22:23 |
| srichter | philiKON: I was expecting people having lots of failures | 22:23 |
| srichter | I need to start documenting this | 22:23 |
| srichter | but it is hard without people reporting things, because it works for me | 22:24 |
| philiKON | i don't understand that | 22:24 |
| philiKON | why isn't this thing self-contained? | 22:24 |
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| philiKON | aren't you running this with a clean site-packages? | 22:24 |
| philiKON | http://pastebin.com/m1ea2e9a | 22:25 |
| philiKON | srichter: especially the "DemoLayer" thing that can't be found is weird | 22:25 |
| philiKON | there's got to be more to this than just missing packages | 22:26 |
| philiKON | either way, i think this is a great tool | 22:26 |
| philiKON | but i wish it would pass on my system ;) | 22:26 |
| srichter | zdeamon needs a special setup; it should not even run those tests | 22:27 |
| philiKON | well, it does... | 22:27 |
| philiKON | srichter: but now that you mention it, i tried running the zdaemon trunk tests and they fail for me too | 22:30 |
| philiKON | so ignoring those, i still get enough other failures | 22:30 |
| srichter | philiKON: mmh, how do you run the tests | 22:31 |
| srichter | philiKON: one problem is from not having reportlab installed, which does not have a proper egg, so I can't have it as a dep | 22:31 |
| philiKON | bin/test | 22:32 |
| philiKON | yeah, i installed PIL and reportlab now | 22:32 |
| philiKON | i hope taht's all | 22:32 |
| philiKON | i realize they're not eggs, so that's ok | 22:32 |
| philiKON | it's not ideal, but i can live with that | 22:32 |
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| srichter | philiKON: sorry, I am back | 22:43 |
| srichter | I tried to get a VPN running crashing the entire network connection in the process | 22:43 |
| srichter | can you repeat the last lines? | 22:43 |
| srichter | philiKON: ^^^ | 22:43 |
| srichter | I was saying that I have a plan for packages that do not have proper eggs | 22:44 |
| philiKON | ok | 22:44 |
| philiKON | cool | 22:44 |
| philiKON | my last line was" | 22:44 |
| philiKON | it's not ideal, but i can live with that | 22:44 |
| philiKON | i didn't say anything after that | 22:44 |
| srichter | basically we are going to create proper eggs, put them on download.zope.org (probably /zope3.4) and the controlled-packages.cfg references that location directly | 22:45 |
| srichter | ok | 22:45 |
| philiKON | sounds ok | 22:45 |
| philiKON | anyway, with the ftests i'm just getting a zeo failure now | 22:45 |
| philiKON | weird | 22:45 |
| philiKON | still running the non-ftests | 22:45 |
| philiKON | getting a failure on some pdf not found | 22:45 |
| philiKON | but i'm going to ignore those z3c.* failures for now ;( | 22:46 |
| philiKON | err, ;) | 22:46 |
| philiKON | srichter: i'm still getting | 22:49 |
| philiKON | AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'DemoLayer' | 22:49 |
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| srichter | philiKON: mmh, a missing dependnecy? | 22:50 |
| srichter | you need to install zope.app.layer(s) | 22:50 |
| philiKON | I? | 22:51 |
| philiKON | shoudln't it have done it automatically? | 22:51 |
| srichter | yeah, it should | 22:51 |
| philiKON | sounds like a bug in the dependencies | 22:51 |
| srichter | so you are testing the KGS? | 22:51 |
| philiKON | and why does it work for you? | 22:51 |
| philiKON | well, i'm following your instructions in the email | 22:51 |
| philiKON | haven't modified anything yet | 22:51 |
| srichter | ok | 22:51 |
| srichter | then it should work | 22:51 |
| srichter | because zope.app.layer is part of the KGS and is installed, even if the dep is missing | 22:52 |
| philiKON | lemme check | 22:52 |
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| philiKON | srichter: i have | 22:55 |
| philiKON | '/Users/philipp/buildout-eggs/zope.app.layers-3.4.0-py2.4.egg', | 22:55 |
| philiKON | in bin/test | 22:55 |
| srichter | ok, that should be fine | 22:55 |
| srichter | it needs just anything | 22:55 |
| srichter | oh, you see this at the end of the output right? | 22:55 |
| philiKON | right | 22:55 |
| srichter | but it should not cause any failures | 22:55 |
| philiKON | no, but it's still weird | 22:56 |
| srichter | I have not figured this one out | 22:56 |
| srichter | yes | 22:56 |
| philiKON | anyway: Ran 10954 tests with 3 failures and 114 errors in 6 minutes 42.754 seconds. | 22:56 |
| srichter | when I run the tests manually, it all works | 22:56 |
| srichter | 114 errors? | 22:56 |
| srichter | I wonder where they come from | 22:56 |
| srichter | I am pretty sure that some packages are not properly setup and torn down | 22:56 |
| philiKON | well, the z3c.rml test are looking for pdf files | 22:57 |
| philiKON | that apparently aren't in the egg | 22:57 |
| philiKON | or something | 22:57 |
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| srichter | philiKON: darn, they should be | 22:57 |
| srichter | I will investigate this problem | 22:58 |
| philiKON | cool, thanks | 22:58 |
| philiKON | so, can i update the KGS to the new releases that i made today? | 22:58 |
| srichter | (I cannot do it now, but I will try tonight) | 22:58 |
| philiKON | yeah, no rush | 22:58 |
| srichter | yeah | 22:58 |
| philiKON | ok | 22:58 |
| srichter | they are only bug-fix releases rright? | 22:58 |
| philiKON | yes | 22:59 |
| srichter | yeah, then that's fine | 22:59 |
| philiKON | zope.formlib has a feature thing, bu ti haven't even made that release yet | 22:59 |
| philiKON | change it both on the trunk and 3.4 branch? | 22:59 |
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| philiKON | srichter: i wonder about the multiple versions for a package | 23:01 |
| philiKON | i mean, i've released a bugfix release now | 23:01 |
| srichter | I need to setup a devel KGS too | 23:01 |
| philiKON | should we still "support" the previous releases in the KGS? | 23:01 |
| srichter | Jim said this is needed for people's buildouts not to break | 23:02 |
| philiKON | ah, right, because you fill the locked down index with it | 23:02 |
| philiKON | sigh, yet another reason why the locked down index is limiting | 23:02 |
| philiKON | i think it makes decisions on the wrong end | 23:02 |
| srichter | why wrong place? | 23:03 |
| philiKON | hmm, i wonder what J1m meant about breaking buildouts | 23:03 |
| philiKON | i mean, a KGS shouldn't change right? | 23:03 |
| philiKON | meaning, a *released* KGS shoudln't change | 23:04 |
| srichter | (I think all we need to be able to do is to layer indices like Chris suggested) | 23:04 |
| J1m | philiKON, huh? | 23:04 |
| philiKON | i don't see how those layered indices solve anything | 23:04 |
| philiKON | i mean, they would complicate things terribly | 23:04 |
| philiKON | J1m: let's say we release the Zope3.4.0 KGS | 23:04 |
| srichter | no, they would allow you to build a grok KGS on top of the Zope 3.4 KGS | 23:04 |
| srichter | there is no Zope 3.4.0 KGS, only a Zope 3.4 KGS | 23:05 |
| philiKON | srichter: right. and then I want to upgrade zope.security from 3.4.1 to 3.5.0 and i have to create yet another index just for that one package and cascade it with the other 2? | 23:05 |
| philiKON | boy that sounds complicated | 23:05 |
| srichter | the beautiful thing about the KGS is that it fixes bugs when you update | 23:05 |
| philiKON | srichter: umm... ok. so the KGS is a moving target?!? | 23:05 |
| srichter | philiKON: no, it is not moving feature wise | 23:06 |
| srichter | it just automatically publishes bug releases | 23:06 |
| srichter | I am totally open to create specific versions.cfg files | 23:06 |
| srichter | like versions-3.4.0.cfg for example | 23:07 |
| philiKON | the moving target can introduce ambiguities, though | 23:07 |
| philiKON | let's say package A gets a bugfix 1.0.1 | 23:07 |
| philiKON | and package B needs to depend on that bugfixed behaviour | 23:07 |
| philiKON | so it gets B 1.0.1 | 23:08 |
| philiKON | according to your rules A 1.0.0 and B 1.0.0 are still in the KGS | 23:08 |
| philiKON | so A1.0.0 and B 1.0.1 would comprise a valid set | 23:08 |
| srichter | they are available | 23:08 |
| philiKON | according to the KGS | 23:08 |
| philiKON | hmm. well i suppose B's setu.py would state A>=1.0.1 | 23:08 |
| srichter | but if you say "update" it will always get A 101 and B101 | 23:08 |
| srichter | no, the behavior will just work | 23:08 |
| srichter | because when you update you get the latest of everything | 23:09 |
| philiKON | unless you use bin/buildout -N :) | 23:09 |
| philiKON | like everybody does nowadays | 23:09 |
| philiKON | ok, i'll have to think about this some more | 23:09 |
| philiKON | thanks for assistance with zope.release | 23:09 |
| philiKON | i'm closing for the night | 23:09 |
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| srichter | if you use -N the packages don;t get updates and you are fine ;-) | 23:10 |
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| J1m | philiKON, if you want to upgrade to a new feature release of a package from the KGS, then you'll be effectively leaving the KGS. | 23:12 |
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| J1m | You'll be able to do that in various ways, but it will mean that you can no longer rely on the KGS. | 23:12 |
| philiKON | well, that's very helpful. either you take all 100%, but if you just want 99%, you'll have to do everything by yourself | 23:12 |
| philiKON | that sucks | 23:12 |
| J1m | Your tude atm leaves alot to be desired. | 23:12 |
| J1m | I'm sorry I responded. | 23:13 |
| philiKON | sorry | 23:13 |
| J1m | ok | 23:13 |
| philiKON | it's late | 23:13 |
| philiKON | didn't mean it | 23:13 |
| philiKON | i should go out :) | 23:13 |
| J1m | Yeah, and I'm trying to get other work done. | 23:13 |
| J1m | Think of this as being like a linux diistro. | 23:13 |
| J1m | Most people just want something that works. | 23:13 |
| J1m | They want bug fixes. | 23:13 |
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| philiKON | yeah, and i see how the locked down index solves that beautifully | 23:14 |
| J1m | They don't want new features until they do a distro upgrade. | 23:14 |
| J1m | Now, some advanced users might want to be clever. | 23:14 |
| philiKON | right. but they'll also want to lock down the set of packages they maintain themselves, fo rinstance. i just don't see how they want to maintain their own index. or shouldn't they? | 23:14 |
| J1m | They might install some packages by hand or add additional respositories to their search list. | 23:15 |
| J1m | They know that they are off the beaten path. | 23:15 |
| philiKON | right, i realize that | 23:15 |
| J1m | You don't need your own index to use versions not in the KGS. | 23:15 |
| philiKON | you don't? how would buildout find them? | 23:16 |
| J1m | YOu can add packages by hand in a number of ways. | 23:16 |
| philiKON | find-links has different semantics, right? | 23:16 |
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| J1m | The easiest way is to stick them somewhete and add that location to your find links. | 23:16 |
| philiKON | hmmm. right. so i'll have to maintain that "somewhere" | 23:16 |
| J1m | well, setuptools lets you have an index and as many find links as you want. | 23:16 |
| J1m | well, sure. | 23:17 |
| philiKON | hm.. i'll have to thinka bout this | 23:17 |
| philiKON | i should go out now anyway, and not keep you from doing your work and aggrevatin people ;) | 23:17 |
| J1m | Just like unix package management systems provide lots of ways to do things in a custom way, so does buildout. | 23:17 |
| philiKON | right right, i'd just like it to be easy and straight-forward | 23:18 |
| J1m | I'm not agrevating anyone (that I know of). :) | 23:18 |
| philiKON | heh, that came out wrong ;) | 23:18 |
| J1m | I'd like a pony. :) | 23:18 |
| philiKON | i'll se what i can do... ;) | 23:18 |
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