IRC log of #zope3-dev for Tuesday, 2008-07-29

J1mSo srichter, are you going to make the releases?00:00
J1mor we can split them.00:01
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srichterJ1m: let's split them00:27
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J1msrichter, ok, you do the two versions of and I'll do the other 2.00:35
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srichterJ1m: ok00:55
J1mThen again, I'm not sure these are ready.00:57
J1mphiliKON, ayt?00:57
J1mThen again, I'm not sure these are ready, srichter00:57
philiKONJ1m: iam00:57
philiKONwhat's wrong?00:57
J1mThe meta data is not up to date for zope.proxy/00:57
philiKONwhat's wrong?00:57
J1mI fixed the version #, but changes.txt is out of date as well.00:58
philiKONthe tags should be ready to go already...00:58
philiKONdid i miss something?00:58
* philiKON looks00:58
J1mlook at the zope.proxy 3.4.2 tag.00:58
J1mI just fixed the version #, but changes.txt is incomplete.00:58
philiKONuh how?00:59
philiKONlooks ok to me00:59
philiKONare you sure you're on the tag?00:59
J1mOr, I should say, the changes section of th readme00:59
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philiKONare we talking about zope.proxy?00:59
J1mdamn, I wasn't.01:00
philiKONlooks ok to me :)01:00
J1mno test script for
J1mI hope the updates work. :)01:08
J1mnever mind01:09
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J1msrichter, philiKON I'm done01:26
srichterJ1m: left for me, right?01:27
J1mYup -- 2 versions01:27
philiKONthey're already tagged01:28
philiKONyou'll only have to do the upload dance01:28
J1mHave the tests been run on windows?01:31
philiKONnot by me01:31
J1mI ran the tests for the ones I did.01:31
philiKONah good01:31
philiKONwell yes, that should be done then01:31
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J1mI doubt they were run by anyone, since anyone who could run the tests could also generate the binary.01:32
philiKONright :)01:32
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srichterphiliKON: how do I get Windows to build TGZ files again?02:28
srichterfor sdists?02:28
philiKONpython sdist --help-formats02:32
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srichterphiliKON: thanks02:35
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J1msrichter, does it matter?02:36
philiKONJ1m: there used to be a setuptools bug in some older version02:37
philiKONit didn't unzip zip files correctly i believe02:37
J1mhm, well, I generated zip files.02:37
J1mI've never had trouble with zip files.02:37
philiKONwe had a while ago02:37
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J1mSee y'all later.02:38
philiKONi think the problem has been fixed a while too02:38
philiKONsee ya02:38
philiKONthanks again02:38
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srichterok, then I use zips too :-)02:42
srichterthe Python 2.5 versions are up; Python 2.4 is coming; I never built anything for Python 2.4 in Windows, so I have to get all the eggs02:48
srichterbtw, I can explain to anyone what I am doing, so Jim and I are not the bottleneck anymore02:48
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srichter(and no, philiKON cannot ask how I do it, because I used his blog entry ;-)02:49
philiKONso you're not using visual C then02:49
srichterno, Jim is nto either, rtight?02:49
philiKONthe whole point of me asking J1m was that visual C was being used02:49
philiKONyes he is02:49
srichteroh, then I cannot help sorry02:50
philiKONheck, i can do the ming trick02:50
srichterthough I have released zope.proxy and others without visual c before02:50
philiKONuh huh02:50
srichterso why not?02:50
srichterwhat's the problem?02:50
philiKONpeople were skeptical02:50
srichterok, I agree, Chris was skeptical02:50
srichterok, so I think we should take the attitude of Ming works until proven it breaks things02:52
srichterbecause otherwise Jim is a bottleneck that we cannot fix easily02:52
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philiKONi guess02:53
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gstrattonWhat's the correct way to concatenate a list of lists? I'm suspecting reduce(operator.add, list, []) isn't it08:47
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mintsauceHow do I 'reconfigure my session / cookie credentials plug-in, or any other IBrowserFormChallenger Plug-in to redirect to my custom page, instead of zope's standard form'? I'm working through chap 22 of philiKON's book :)11:23
mintsaucealso ... got myself confused in the zmi .... have two types of PAU plugins marked 'in contents' and 'a utility' ....11:26
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mintsaucedevmode on - but no introspect tabs .... help!16:59
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srichtermgedmin: did you try your new powers of uploading the latest KGS already? :-)17:17
mgedminsrichter: yes17:17
mgedminit works, thanks17:17
mintsauceDevmode on, but no ApiDoc either ..... what am i missing?17:17
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mgedminmintsauce: no idea; is the apidoc's package include enabled?17:18
mgedminsrichter: could you explain why controlled-versions.cfg lists several version numbers for a single package sometimes?17:19
mintsaucehah .... err .. probably not, didn't realise there was one - docs i was reading just said turn devmode on :)17:19
* mintsauce goes off for a rummage in buildout.cfg17:19
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mgedminhm, a few of the packages in zope 3.4 spew deprecation warnings about ZopeMessageFactory and ZopeSecurityPolicy17:21
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mintsaucemgedmin: yeah 'IPrincipalRoleManager is deprecated' etc ... noticed that today, keep meaning to go through my build and tidy those up once and for all ;)17:25
mgedminhaven't noticed *that* one17:25
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mintsauceAdded to buildout - now get: ConfigurationError: ('Unknown directive', u'', u'bookchapter')17:28
mgedminyou need to include its meta.zcml too17:31
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mintsaucemgedmin: when do you tell when a package needs meta.zcml? apart from running it and watching it fail ;)17:38
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mgedmingenerally, when a package has a meta.zcml, you want it included17:39
* mgedmin sighs17:39
mgedminI'm not yet familiar with buildout-and-egg configurations17:40
mgedminin ye olden days we had /etc/package-includes/ with a bunch of one-liners17:40
mgedminand installing a package meant dropping its package-includes files in there17:40
mgedminapidoc had a *-meta.zcml and a *-configure.zcml17:40
mgedminsite.zcml first included all meta.zcml and then included all configure.zcml files from that dir17:41
philiKONi find these snippets confusing though17:41
philiKONi prefer a manually edited site.zcml17:41
philiKONwhere i have a bunch of lines like17:41
mgedminbecause you know how everything works17:42
philiKON<include package="this.pkg" file="meta.zcml" />17:42
philiKONwell, the site.zcml is pretty easy to understand17:42
philiKONa gazillion single files in package-includes is harder17:42
philiKONone more indirection17:42
mgedminI'm starting to think zcml files ought to have same conventions as C++ include files17:42
philiKONbasically, all you have to know is that there's site.zcml17:42
philiKONwhich includes evrything else17:42
mgedminzcml already has "include guards" so you can include the same zcml more than once17:42
mgedminso every zcml file that needs some package's meta.zcml ought to include it explicitly17:43
philiKONi agree17:43
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* mintsauce turns his back for a moment and comes back to a very comprehensive answer - thanks guys :)17:48
mgedminhm, is directlyProvides(IMyInterface, IBrowserSkinType) the only way to declare interface types?17:49
mgedminI'm looking for something I could use inside the interface declaration rather than after17:50
mgedminsomething like classProvides(), I guess17:50
mintsaucemgedmin: no error now - but no apidoc either at
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mgedminwhat are the conventions for defining skins?  should their names be prefixed with I?18:03
mgedminskins *are* interfaces, after all18:03
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philiKONmgedmin: i do prefix them, yes18:19
mintsauceIn devmode, and included - no apidoc - but *also* no 'introspect' option.18:24
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mintsauceI'm missing something obvious here18:24
srichtermgedmin: I prefix them too18:24
afd_mintsauce: you need to include some zcmls18:24
afd_probably the meta and configure from
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mintsaucein buildout.cfg, currently have <include package="" file="meta.zcml"/>18:25
afd_make sure you also load the configure18:26
mintsauceafd_: not sure of the buildout.cfg syntax .... is that just another file="configure.zcml" entry?18:27
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mgedminjust <include package="" />18:29
mgedminthis time18:29
mgedminthere should be exactly two lines mentioning apidoc in your cfg; the first one with meta, the other without18:29
* mgedmin scratches head18:30
mgedminafter going through all my zcmls and replacing layer="..." with type="..." I now discover that <browser:page> doesn't understand type="..." and needs layer18:30
mintsaucemgedmin: as a n00b - how would i know that I needed two lines? I thought that looking through the egg I might get an idea of what .zcmls needed to be included.18:31
mgedminmintsauce: don't ask me these questions18:32
mintsaucemgedmin: lol, sorry - not a fan of buildout - forgot ;)18:32
mgedminno, just full of unproductive frustration and cynicism18:32
mgedminzope 3 is currently not very newbie-friendly :(18:32
mintsaucejust trying to work out how to diagnose problems myself :)18:33
mgedminactually, the answer to your question is "you get told on irc that you need those two lines"18:33
mintsaucemgedmin: hahaha - sounds right!18:33's README.txt ought to document how to enable it18:34
mintsaucephiliKON's book suggested (to me at least) that it should just be enabled once devmode is on ..... that's where my trouble started ;)18:36
mgedminzope 3 changes a lot18:36
mgedminin ye olden days that was true18:37
mgedminyou had this big one monolithic zope 3 package, and it did have apidoc's zcml loaded18:37
mgedminthe only thing needed to enable it was the devmode switch18:37
mgedminbut now that zope 3 is split into hundreds of packages, you have to know how to enable those packages18:37
mgedminthe general pattern is to include that package's zcml in your size.zcml (usually in buildbot.cfg)18:38
mintsaucemgedmin: good to know, at least it's not just me :P18:38
mgedminnot all the rought edges have been polished yet18:38
mintsauceConfigurationError: ('Unknown directive', u'', u'preferenceGroup')18:40
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mgedminnever seen that one18:41
mgedminall unknown directive errors are the result of a missing meta.zcml include of some package18:42
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mgedminthe trick is to find out which package18:42
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lisppaste6mintsauce pasted "apidoc" at
mintsaucenot meant for anyone here - didnt realise it pasted automatically!19:16
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srichtermgedmin: the reason I have multiple versions in a single controlled-packages.cfg file is to not break backward-compatibility within a major KGS version19:59
srichteri.e. all listed versions will be available in the index19:59
mgedminaah, I see19:59
srichteronce we switch to KGS 3.5 we reset al the versions to a single one until the first beta or so20:00
srichterbtw, would you be willing to help out with a development version of the KGS as well?20:00
mgedminin principle yes, in practice I'm a bit overwhelmed already20:01
srichterI have already created zope-dev as a directory (well, Jim has)20:02
mgedminyou had some script to synchronize the zope 3.4 svn:externals with the kgs versions20:02
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srichteryeah, in zope.release20:02
mgedminzope.release's README.txt doesn't mention that20:02
srichterright, it is a little outdated20:02
mgedminor I missed it20:02
srichterno, you did not20:03
* mgedmin blinks20:03
srichterI read through it the other day and noticed it is not up to speed20:03
mgedminI've been following it righteously20:03
srichteryeah, it has some additional steps that are not needed anymore20:04
mgedminwell... except that I ignored errors shown by the "test all kgs packages" step, because they seemed completely unrelated to my change20:04
srichterokay, so the tree can be updated using ./bin/update-tree20:04
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mgedminis it safe to run at any point in time?20:04
srichterit assumes that the Zope3/branches/3.4 is checked out locally as Zope3-3.420:05
mgedminidempotent/generates no empty commits/etc?20:05
srichterI should add an external for that20:05
srichtershould be safe;20:05
srichterit only updates your local tree20:05
mgedmindoes it commit, or does it leave a modified working tree for me to review an...20:05
mgedminokay, you answered that20:05
srichteryou have to do the checkin manually20:05
* mgedmin wonders why the checkout is not called simply Zope3.420:06
* mgedmin is angry at svn for not providing useful diffs of svn:externals changes20:07
srichteryeah, that's probably the reason I made the checkout manually20:08
mgedminoutstanding diffs: zope.server 3.4.1 -> 3.4.2; 3.4.0 -> 3.4.1; 3.4.0 -> 3.4.120:09
srichterI have a tool that discovers all bug fix upgrades :-)20:10
srichtermgedmin: ./bin/list-latest20:10
srichterit finds all versions released after the last lsited one20:11
mgedminfeature suggestion: bin/list-latest could take a package name (or a list of them) on the command line, then check only those20:17
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* mgedmin is hardcore and runs tests with python2.4 -Werror20:27
mgedmindie, DeprecationWarnings, die!20:27
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mgedminoh noes, they're too strong20:29
mgedmin6 failures and 4 errors20:29
mgedminnot counting other layers...20:29
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* mgedmin gives up for today20:31
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yotaffwhere are zope3 buildbot ?22:51
benjiHe's dead, Jim.22:52
yotaffsad news22:53
benjisee (if it's up)22:54
yotaffdown for me22:54
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yotaffdo you know examples of buildbot with eggs or buildout packages ?22:55
vimes656yotaff: you can have a look to the different buildout profiles for silva22:59
yotaffi'm reading it ;)22:59
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yotaffbut  I presume it's a zope instance test23:00
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yotaffI want test each python package23:01
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vimes656yotaff: you can read this tutorial for buildout:
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