| philiKON | right | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| philiKON | because it's not a site | 00:00 |
| philiKON | it's the site manager *for* a site | 00:00 |
| philiKON | when you do site.getSiteManager() you may get a LocalSiteManager instance back | 00:00 |
| philiKON | mgedmin: it's talking about the getSite() helper from zope.app.comopnent.hooks | 00:01 |
| philiKON | it returns the last site object that was remembered during traversal | 00:01 |
| fcorrea_ | gotcha, will look up for examples on how to use it. So far sm.__parent__ was my best shot | 00:04 |
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| fcorrea_ | philiKON, mgedmin: thanks for pointing out. That was easily integrated | 00:11 |
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| srichter | mgedmin: I uploaded 3.4.0c4 to the server; looks all good | 00:19 |
| srichter | Keas is now using c4 | 00:19 |
| Tv | i'm not having much fun trying to teach zc.buildout to stop a daemon before upgrading it's source files from under it | 00:29 |
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| CSWookie | quodt: How you doing, man? How's your wife? | 02:21 |
| quodt | hey | 02:21 |
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| quodt | find man | 02:21 |
| quodt | that's a wife :) | 02:21 |
| CSWookie | Heh. | 02:22 |
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| gstratton | I'm playing with z.a.generations. It's working fine, but I was wondering whether there is a way to not have to do the start app once - change the config - start app again pattern described in Phillip's book? | 10:52 |
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| srichter | mgedmin: do you have a strong opinion about updating all packages in the 3.4 KGS to the latest bug-fix release? | 17:24 |
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| philiKON | srichter: it would be good | 17:30 |
| philiKON | srichter: for instance, there's a new zope.publisher 3.4.3. i suppose that should go into the KGS | 17:30 |
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| ccomb | Updating the kgs is a good idea | 17:35 |
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| ccomb | And calling it 3.4.0 would also be a good idea | 17:36 |
| philiKON | i think we're getting there slowly | 17:36 |
| mgedmin | srichter: maybe | 17:36 |
| mgedmin | I have very strong opinions on things that bug me | 17:36 |
| philiKON | a 3.4.0c1 would be great | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | and vaguer opinions on things that don't, just yet | 17:37 |
| philiKON | :) | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | in general, bugfixes are good and someone wants them | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | I don't want 3.4.0 final before all the tests pass on all sane configurations | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | currently svn co of the Zope3 3.4 branch gives me passing tests | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | but the KGS test script doesn't | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | actually, let me try that on a 64-bit system... | 17:38 |
| * philiKON starts KGS tests | 17:38 | |
| * philiKON thinks we should also integrate some of the grok packages into the 3.4.0 KGS | 17:38 | |
| philiKON | maybe not grok itself | 17:39 |
| philiKON | but the grokcore.* ones | 17:39 |
| ccomb | and martian ? | 17:39 |
| philiKON | yes, and that | 17:39 |
| ccomb | good idea | 17:40 |
| philiKON | i'm still uneasy about the fact that the KGS actually allows multiple versions of one package | 17:40 |
| philiKON | to me this seems quite untestable | 17:40 |
| philiKON | and i suppose the test suite only runs those of the last one | 17:40 |
| philiKON | i'd like to understand *why* we need multiple versions of one package in the KGS | 17:41 |
| ccomb | ? which versions of which package ? | 17:41 |
| mgedmin | all 3.4 branch tests pass on 64-bit python2.4 | 17:41 |
| philiKON | http://svn.zope.org/*checkout*/zope.release/branches/3.4/controlled-packages.cfg | 17:41 |
| mgedmin | philiKON: afaiu the KGS is versions.cfg, which only allows one version of the package | 17:42 |
| philiKON | what's controlled-packages.cfg then? | 17:42 |
| mgedmin | the controlled-packages let people using slightly older versions of versions.cfg download the packages mentioned in there from the index at download.zope.org | 17:42 |
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| philiKON | i see | 17:42 |
| mgedmin | actually, I'm a bit confused myself | 17:43 |
| philiKON | so controlled-packages.cfg basically configures what the Zope 3.4 index provides | 17:43 |
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| mgedmin | yes, afaiu | 17:43 |
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| mgedmin | I don't know *which* buildbots use the d.z.o index instead of pypi | 17:43 |
| mgedmin | and if you need special config for that | 17:43 |
| philiKON | and the latest version in that index is always the one that's in the KGS | 17:43 |
| mgedmin | so far I haven't created any buildbots, just used the existing ones | 17:43 |
| philiKON | mgedmin: well, you just say in your buildout.cfg index = http://.... | 17:43 |
| philiKON | you mean buildouts, not buildbots, right? | 17:44 |
| mgedmin | eep yes | 17:44 |
| philiKON | yeah | 17:44 |
| philiKON | [buildout] | 17:44 |
| philiKON | index = http:/... | 17:44 |
| philiKON | that's it | 17:44 |
| * ignas uses versions.cfg instead of index, because else some eggs can mess up your version lists | 17:44 | |
| * mgedmin is thinking of getting a new computer and giving it a hostname of 'buildbox', just to increase confusion | 17:44 | |
| ignas | by adding external find-links | 17:44 |
| philiKON | ignas: right | 17:44 |
| philiKON | the locked-down index is suboptimal, to say the least | 17:44 |
| philiKON | version.cfg is much more practical | 17:44 |
| rocky | do most of you use buildouts that include various other packages into some sort of src dir by way of svn:externals ? | 17:47 |
| philiKON | no | 17:47 |
| philiKON | i don't | 17:47 |
| philiKON | only for development branches | 17:47 |
| CSWookie | rocky: I avoid it if I can. | 17:47 |
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| philiKON | rocky: i much dislike that "ploneout style" of buildout | 17:47 |
| * mgedmin hates svn:externals | 17:47 | |
| philiKON | yes, mostly b/c of that | 17:48 |
| rocky | yeah i'm beginning to really dislike it too ... i'm trying to switch to bzr-svn for my own local dev but that ploneout way of doing things makes things hard | 17:48 |
| philiKON | i think MacYET once blogged about how to speed up the update of svn:externals | 17:48 |
| rocky | svn:externals specifically | 17:48 |
| * philiKON needs to find th etime to check out bzr-svn | 17:48 | |
| * philiKON hopes to replace svk with bzr-svn | 17:48 | |
| rocky | yeah that's precisely why i'm using it ;) | 17:49 |
| philiKON | :) | 17:49 |
| rocky | i liked svk... but bzr-svn being written in python makes me feel soooo better... particularly with bzr gaining in popularity | 17:49 |
| * mgedmin tried svn once and wasn't happy with it | 17:49 | |
| philiKON | svk is perl ;) | 17:49 |
| * mgedmin tried bzr a few times and tripped over too many bugs to trust it | 17:49 | |
| philiKON | mgedmin: what do you use then? | 17:50 |
| mgedmin | err, s/tried svn once/tried svk once" | 17:50 |
| rocky | lol | 17:50 |
| mgedmin | plain old subversion + eazysvn | 17:50 |
| whit | rocky: have you played with hg? | 17:50 |
| philiKON | mgedmin: ah | 17:50 |
| * mgedmin read a scary article about hg | 17:50 | |
| philiKON | mgedmin: :) | 17:50 |
| * ignas tried everything once and wasn't happy with it, because he tripped over too many bugs to trust it | 17:51 | |
| rocky | i used hg to work on some third-party project once a bit... didn't have anything over bzr that would make me want to use one over the other (bzr has a burst in popularity which makes me consider it more) | 17:51 |
| mgedmin | I keep trying to use bzr, bzr-svn or git-svn | 17:51 |
| mgedmin | git (+ git-svn) shows the most promise because I tried it the least, and therefore didn't give it enough opportunities to screw up | 17:51 |
| mgedmin | is a bit confusing though, at times | 17:51 |
| rocky | mgedmin: any problems specific to bzr-svn i should be aware of? :) | 17:51 |
| * philiKON dislikes git for its tendency to encourage working in a cave | 17:51 | |
| mgedmin | um, how did we end up in this vcs flame? | 17:51 |
| whit | hg is sort of the same | 17:51 |
| whit | re: cave | 17:52 |
| philiKON | http://blog.red-bean.com/sussman/?p=96 is a great article on working in the cave | 17:52 |
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| philiKON | anyway, back to KGS :) | 17:52 |
| rocky | my develop mode with bzr-svn seems to be mostly: 1) bzr co http://somehost.com/somesvnbranch 2) bzr branch somesvnbranch somelocalbranch 3) do work in in somelocalbranch | 17:52 |
| philiKON | of course now srichter si gone | 17:53 |
| ccomb | about the kgs, is it a good idea to specify the version of setuptools to 0.6c7? | 17:53 |
| philiKON | i think it would be a good sign if we could get something out there | 17:53 |
| ccomb | everytime I bootstrap a buiuldout, I have a version conflict | 17:53 |
| philiKON | hm? | 17:54 |
| ccomb | because the bootstrap gets the latest version | 17:54 |
| philiKON | that's weird | 17:54 |
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| ccomb | so I have to add the setuptools version manually everytime | 17:54 |
| philiKON | we certainly should update the KGS to the newest setuptools bugfix | 17:54 |
| * philiKON doesn't understand setuptools's weird version numbering | 17:54 | |
| philiKON | it's almost like silvas | 17:54 |
| philiKON | never getting to 1.0 | 17:54 |
| philiKON | heck, setuptools isn't even getting to 0.6.0 | 17:54 |
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| mgedmin | our foundations are a bit shaky... | 17:55 |
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| ccomb | who actually is the release manager for 3.4? | 17:56 |
| philiKON | looks like mgedmin stepped up :) | 17:57 |
| * philiKON ducks | 17:57 | |
| mgedmin | yay | 17:57 |
| mgedmin | except for the tarballs | 17:57 |
| mgedmin | I don't know how to do those | 17:57 |
| philiKON | let's forget the tarballs | 17:57 |
| philiKON | nobody needs them anymore | 17:57 |
| mgedmin | we promised | 17:57 |
| philiKON | did we? | 17:57 |
| mgedmin | and by "we" I mean the community | 17:57 |
| philiKON | ok fine | 17:57 |
| philiKON | i've done the tarballs before | 17:57 |
| philiKON | i can do them again | 17:57 |
| mgedmin | 3.4 will be the last monolithic release or something | 17:57 |
| mgedmin | as well as the first eggsploded release | 17:58 |
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| philiKON | ok | 17:59 |
| philiKON | i think people will care about the tarball about as much as they would about a sack of rice falling over in china | 17:59 |
| philiKON | but oh well | 18:00 |
| ignas | mgedmin: can you document the process of switching from monolithic Zope3 checkout to eggs too? | 18:03 |
| ignas | because a clear migration path was promised as well | 18:03 |
| mgedmin | is 'rm -rf Zope3-checkout-dir && zopeproject new-stuff' clear enough? | 18:04 |
| ignas | mgedmin: did that work for you? | 18:04 |
| mgedmin | never tried | 18:04 |
| mgedmin | testing is for wussies | 18:04 |
| mgedmin | at the moment I'm more concerned with failing tests than with tarballs | 18:05 |
| mgedmin | oh, buildbot, why are you so complicated to use? | 18:05 |
| mgedmin | and by 'buildbot' I actually mean buildbot, this time | 18:05 |
| mgedmin | btw before there's a clear migration path, it's be nice to have a clear destination | 18:07 |
| mgedmin | what is the current officially-recommended way to start a new zope3-based project? | 18:08 |
| mgedmin | is it zopeproject? | 18:08 |
| ccomb | I suppose so | 18:10 |
| ignas | I would recomend using zopeproject | 18:10 |
| ignas | I tweak it a bit from what I can recall | 18:10 |
| ignas | like - adding bootstrap.py and a Makefile | 18:10 |
| ignas | and editing buildout.cfg to use KGS from versions.cfg | 18:10 |
| ccomb | but it would be nice to improve zopeproject to let it offer to choose the version | 18:10 |
| ignas | and maybe drop find-links from other packages by default | 18:11 |
| philiKON | ignas: zopeproject could use a make-over | 18:11 |
| ignas | i know ;) | 18:11 |
| philiKON | ignas: grokproject, its cousin, actually has some very nice features | 18:11 |
| philiKON | the could make their way back to zopeproject | 18:11 |
| philiKON | (including minor things like bootstrap.py) | 18:11 |
| ignas | i mean - when yvl wanted my help setting up a new Zope3 project, i used zopeproject and then mangled it some more to make it usable | 18:11 |
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| ignas | seems like it worked | 18:11 |
| philiKON | and yes, it shoudl also use the KGS version.cfg | 18:11 |
| philiKON | i need to find the time to update it | 18:12 |
| ignas | as in PoV we have the tradition of "one click build" i do some Makefile stuff too, to have "make run" "make test" working on a mostly clean machine | 18:12 |
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| ccomb | philiKON don't you want to move it from the sandbox to the svn root? | 18:13 |
| philiKON | ccomb: when it has tests :) | 18:13 |
| ccomb | aaah :D | 18:13 |
| philiKON | ccomb: its being in my sandbox also allows me to neglect it :) | 18:13 |
| philiKON | or even to abandon it | 18:14 |
| philiKON | without feeling to bad about it | 18:14 |
| philiKON | but you're right | 18:14 |
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| philiKON | it should probably move to the top | 18:14 |
| philiKON | but only if i'm not the only one maintaining it | 18:14 |
| mgedmin | does it have a test suite? | 18:15 |
| philiKON | fortunately i found a few who are stupid^H^H^H^H^H^H encouraged enough to mantain and improve grokproject | 18:15 |
| philiKON | mgedmin: there are no tests that test zopeproject itself | 18:16 |
| philiKON | zopeproject's template generates some testing stuff | 18:16 |
| ignas | philiKON: i would gladly help you maintain it if starting new projects was a day to day activity, but it's not ... | 18:17 |
| philiKON | right... ;) | 18:17 |
| mgedmin | well, I've got one upcoming migration from monolithic zope 3.4 checkout to a buildout-based eggs-using project | 18:18 |
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| philiKON | mgedmin: did you actually use the checkout? | 18:19 |
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| philiKON | or a release? | 18:19 |
| ignas | a checkout | 18:19 |
| philiKON | interesting | 18:22 |
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| mgedmin | I started using releases in production, then switched to svn checkouts of branches | 18:29 |
| mgedmin | easier to get bugfix updates that way | 18:29 |
| ignas | and the integration is easier from what I can recall | 18:32 |
| ignas | just copy/symlink the slug | 18:32 |
| ignas | and run z3.py | 18:33 |
| ignas | while release has some weirdo instance stuff going around | 18:33 |
| mgedmin | no, integration is more or less the same | 18:33 |
| mgedmin | we use instances | 18:33 |
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| ignas | when deploying | 18:35 |
| * mgedmin is talking about the production environment, yes | 18:35 | |
| mgedmin | our development environment is a svn checkout wiht a makefile | 18:35 |
| mgedmin | the makefile checks out zope etc. | 18:35 |
| mgedmin | if needed | 18:35 |
| srichter | mgedmin: I went into the tunnel on the train before you had results for 64-bit | 18:38 |
| srichter | what was the outcome? | 18:38 |
| mgedmin | zope 3.4 branch in svn passes all the tests run by default with 'python2.4 test.py' on both 32 and 64-bit linux | 18:38 |
| mgedmin | KGS doesn't | 18:39 |
| mgedmin | I also haven't tried the 3.4 branch with python2.5 yet | 18:39 |
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| ignas | mgedmin: could you try python2.5 | 18:47 |
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| srichter | mgedmin: yeah, the KGS is tricky to get all tests passing | 19:10 |
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| srichter | if you get it done, then that's phenomenal | 19:10 |
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| mgedmin | should zope.testing 3.6.0 be in the 3.4 KGS? | 20:15 |
| benji | I wouldn't think so, 3.4 is in relese candidate stage, so feature release changes shouldn't be put in it (which 3.6.0 is) | 20:17 |
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| mgedmin | makes sense, I guess | 20:21 |
| mgedmin | I'll want to release a 3.5.1 bugfix release then | 20:21 |
| mgedmin | (after I make the bugfix, of course) | 20:21 |
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| * mgedmin wants the test runner to wrap its dots again | 21:34 | |
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| mgedmin | http://zope3.pov.lt/buildbot/ | 22:36 |
| mgedmin | py2.5-32bit-linux coming soon | 22:37 |
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| mgedmin | anyone familiar with this sort of zc.buildout error? http://zope3.pov.lt/buildbot/py2.4-32bit-linux/builds/3/step-buildout/0 | 23:19 |
| mgedmin | "IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/PortableServer.py" | 23:19 |
| mgedmin | worked fine before I upgraded the OS from dapper to hardy | 23:19 |
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| mgedmin | oh, wow, that file actually is a broken symlink | 23:20 |
| mgedmin | omg | 23:20 |
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