IRC log of #zope3-dev for Friday, 2008-08-15

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ccombzope.server tests against ZEO tests are fixed but there is something bad elsewhere01:45
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srichterccomb: cool01:49
ccombnot that much01:49
ccombthe same tests fail for another reason now01:50
ccombapart from that, there are 4 failures from z3c.formdemo, and 1 failure from z3c.formjs01:51
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ccombdue tu z3c.form 1.8.2 formatting that seems to change01:52
ccombthat should be easy to fix01:52
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ccombOk, the failure is a mix of, zope.server and ZEO02:08
ccombsame cause02:08
ccombok I know how to fix it02:24
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ccomb12178 tests, 5 failures, 0 errors in 16 minutes 26.259 seconds03:31
ccomb4 failures on formdemo, 1 on formjs03:31
ccombzope.server tests pass  \o/03:31
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ChrisWhey all, how would I tests a post to a url?14:18
ChrisWI guess this is a functional test type thing?14:19
ChrisWany good examples?14:19
philiKONin my book14:19
philiKONthe one on testing14:19
philiKONsee ToC14:19
ChrisWso I guess this would be using testbrowser?14:21
philiKONeither that or the http() callable, if you something more low-level14:22
ChrisWyeah, where does that come from?14:23
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philiKONit's available in functioanl doc tests14:24
ChrisWso does that mean I need in my buildout or some other thing?14:24
philiKON yes14:25
philiKONlook at what zopeproject generates14:25
mintsauceTwo quick questions, with what I suspect are much longer answers  ...14:31
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mintsauceActually - 1 question - as is often the case I realised the answer to the first while typing it :P14:35
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mintsauceIs is possible to stop objects being named with 'invalid' characters - eg: Example Object  - should arguably be:
afd__mintsauce: write your own adapter for INameChooser14:37
mintsauceafd__: that filters and swaps these out?14:37
afd__also, when writing it, you should lower case all the characters. I'd also translate all characters to ascii14:38
mintsaucek ... just wanted to check that zope didnt do it somewhere already :)14:38
afd__look at the INameChooser interface and your questions will be answered :)14:38
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ccombthere is a default namechoose already registered, but it does do much14:39
philiKONmy book demonstrates a custom INameChooser14:42
philiKONi should set up a RTFB bot14:42
* baijum think an up-to-date online docs is necessary for Zope 314:45
junkafarianthere are the api docs14:46
ccombthat's not enough, give the apidoc to a beginner and see the result14:46
philiKONalso, people shouldn't be afraid to read the code once in a while14:46
philiKONapi doc is a reference14:46
baijum´╗┐junkafarian:  Somthing like a book14:46
philiKONbeginners won't learn with a reference. never.14:47
* mintsauce waves14:47
* baijum has started few efforts earlier ... but couldn't continue :(14:47
junkafariana zope book would get outdated very quickly as far as i can tell14:48
junkafarianeach package should just have well documented code/tests/docstrings etc14:48
junkafarianzope isnt a beginners framework14:48
baijum´╗┐junkafarian: I disagree, now Zope 3 is not changing fundamentally much14:48
thruflo_I'm a beginner! :p14:48
ccombactually, philiKON's book is not outdated at all, excepted for deployment14:49
philiKONi don't think my book's 2nd and 3rd editions are much outdated14:49
* thruflo_ agrees14:49
junkafarianvery true14:49
* baijum also agree14:49
philiKONand then there's grok for those who are overwhelmed in the beginning14:49
junkafariandepends what sort of detail you want i spose14:49
* mintsauce agrees - only thing missing is buildout, but he knows that ;)14:49
thruflo_perhaps there's a gap before you get to the book, i.e.: "why do I want to learn web component development with Zope 3?"14:50
philiKONjunkafarian: as i've said, after a certain point you should just be comfortable to do some digging. python is legible enough, i think14:50
baijumWell, I recently started yet another book effort :) here it is:
philiKONthruflo_: yes. i'm planning to address that issue14:50
philiKONthere isn't that much rocket science in zope 314:52
philiKONa few parts are a bit complex, maybe14:52
mintsaucephiliKON: Out of interest, and briefly, why would you want to? (For me I liked what I had seen of python and Zope 2, but didn't need a lot of what Zope 2 had)14:52
junkafarianphiliKON: yup :) also, the codebase tends to be very nicely written so its very easy to follow14:52
philiKONjunkafarian: and if it isn't, something's wrong, so people should feel free to improve it and make it clearer14:52
thruflo_perhaps one approach is to make the links between pop science best practise and zope methodology clear, i.e.: everyone's read Getting It Done / guides on agile development, etc.14:52
philiKONmintsauce: i'14:53
philiKONmintsauce: i didn't say i wanted to cover more zope214:53
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mintsaucephiliKON: didnt mean that ....... i meant, how would you summarise "why do I want to learn web component development with Zope 3?" - For me i had used and liked python and zope2 with plone, but for full application development didn't need or want what they offered - Zope 3 seemed like the natural next step ..14:55
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* ccomb will use the response as the headline for :)14:59
mintsauceccomb: nice design, first time ive seen it :)15:00
ccombactually we need content15:00
ccombHelp is needed for
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* mintsauce thinks the whole 'Why Zope 3' is a bit of a problem anyway - even among experienced users15:03
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philiKONccomb: are you going to merge r89870 to the trunk as well?15:04
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ccombphiliKON: ah yes, and 89765 too15:06
ccomband others that fix just the tests (zope.server, zc.zope3recipes)15:07
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Theunignarr15:32 is broken on the simple and ppix indexes15:33
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ccombTheuni: missing or broken ?15:34
Theunithe .zip file is missing15:34
Theunii wonder who deleted that15:35
ccombon which version ?15:35
TheuniI would think pypi doesn't loose it by itself.15:35
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ccombTheuni: give me upload right and I upload what's missing15:36
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Theuniccomb: i'm already about to do that15:37
Theunii'm just *really* annoyed this happened and we have no way to find out why15:37
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elroIs there a better way to set up dynamic default values on an add form other than stuffing them into request.form?16:29
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mintsauce_lunchdo object id's have to be unique site wide, or folder wide?18:18
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mintsaucelong lunch :P18:19
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philiKONccomb: about the 'size' argument20:29
philiKONccomb: have you actually updated twisted?20:30
philiKONi don't see wehre zope.publisher now depends on a more modern twisted20:30
* ccomb is looking for this dependency somewhere20:31
philiKONi guess zope.publisher doesn't depend on twisted20:31
philiKONit's independent20:31
philiKONhowever20:31 does?20:32 actually contains the twisted code20:32
philiKONi don't think zope.publisher should rely on, that would be silly20:32
philiKONbut we should make a new with the more modern twisted version20:32
ccombtwisted is embedded in ??20:33
philiKONit's part of the egg20:33
philiKONthe twisted package is part of the egg20:33
philiKONas is the package20:34
ccombI should probably revert for the 3.4 branch20:35
philiKONcertainly this can't be part of the same known-good set as the old twisted20:36
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isembardHi folks im new to the CA world and have a specific question about design patterns20:51
ccombphiliKON: It looks like it's supported in all 3.4.x versions of
ccombthe svn:external points to twisted 2.5.020:54
ccombIn version 2.2.0 it was not supported
ccombThe actual version for is
isembardI have a number of reports that I am currently displaying via viewlets, I use formlib so use an IViewlet adapter, but I want to add some functionality that allows me to export as CSV some values of the ZODB. do I provide a CSV adapter to IViewlet, or should I subclass IViewlet to IReportViewlet and the provide the functionality to that??? Whats best practice?20:57
ChrisWphiliKON: ping?20:58
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philiKONccomb: ok looks good then21:00
philiKONChrisW: pong21:00
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ChrisWphiliKON: so, functional testing, your chapter didn't go into enough detail ;-)21:04
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philiKONi bet it didn't indeed21:05
ChrisWso why'd you tell me to read it? :-P21:05
philiKONcoz it's a good start nonetheless, i hope21:05
ChrisWyeah, but I new 90% of that stuff already ;-)21:06
philiKONhow should i know that :)21:06
ChrisW'cos you know I've been working on/with Zope 3 since before you wrote the book ;-)21:06
ChrisWanyway, if I want to use zope.testbrowser.testing.Browser, what's the minimum I need to do to set up a couple of objects to traverse and a staple on a view?21:07
philiKONphew, i don't know that from memory21:07
ChrisWI'll probably od the view stapling with a call to xmlconfig, sicne I need to show it in my doctest21:07
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philiKONxmlconfig? just use a layer21:07
philiKONZCMLLayer to be precise21:07
ChrisWthe book kinda covers a belt'n'braces approach21:07
philiKON(I also told you to tak ea look at what zopeproject generates)21:07
ChrisWphiliKON: nah, I want the xml config to actually form part of the doctest21:07
philiKONuh huh21:08
ChrisWeg: "you need to configure an ISomething utility, this can be done using the following zcml:"21:08
philiKONwell to be able to run the pbulsihing machienry, traversal , etc. you 're going to need a bucnh of stuff21:08
philiKONmost of what includes21:08
philiKONso best is you look there21:08
philiKONboth meta and configure21:09
ChrisWI wonder how I can just simulate a post the view class by hand21:09
philiKONsure you can21:09
ChrisWunfortunately, it actually needs to process the body of a POST, how would I do that?21:10
philiKONmake a TestRequest21:10
ChrisWwhere does TestRequest live?21:10
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ChrisWyeah thanks, greo, that well known windows utility :-(21:12
philiKONit's not my fault you don't have the proper tools :)21:12
ChrisWalso bear in mind that with the advent of buildout, I no longer have a convenient entire zope 3 source tree lying around ;-)21:12
philiKONthere's cygwin21:12
philiKONyou can still grep through your eggs21:13
ChrisWand what if it's in an egg I don't have? ;-)21:13
philiKONthen it's not part of zope is it21:13
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ChrisWI'm only using minimal parts of zope 321:13
philiKONsorry, don't have time to discuss this in length21:14
philiKONi will just refuse to grep for you21:14
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ChrisWcurrently z.interface, z.component,z.configuration and z.publisher...21:14
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ChrisWsheesh, sicne when did you get so fucking grumpy..21:14
ChrisWgoogle appears to be helping...21:14
philiKONi'm not grumpy, i'm just short on time21:15
philiKONand you're asking me questions w/o appearing to invest any time yourself21:15
philiKONyou couldn't have googled five minutes ago?21:15
philiKONinstead of asking "where does it live?"21:15
ChrisWwell, you're making an incorrect assumption on at least two counts21:15
ChrisWI googles the same time as I asked21:15
ChrisWgoogle is helping a little, but there are a lot of TestRequests all over the place21:16
ChrisWI suspect this would also be a problem with grep, although I don't have a handy grep expression for finding a line if a load for eggs21:16
philiKONgoogling for "zope api testrequest" produces quite some correct hits21:17
philiKONthey all point to the right thing21:17
ChrisWright, that key "api" bit which I had no idea idea i had to magically add ;-)21:17
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philiKONwell, i was hoping it would point me to a page on http://apidoc.zope.org21:18
ChrisWz3c.form is a bit annoying in that it's the top hit but is the wrong hit...21:18
philiKONwhich is why i added it21:18
ChrisWI bet apidoc has some kinda spider block on it21:18
ChrisWand bear in mind I didn't even know that site existed ;-)21:18
ChrisW(it's not particularly well advertised, if at all)21:18
ChrisWhmm, is pypi down?21:19
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philiKONhmm, it appears to be indeed21:19
ChrisWfrom zope.publisher.browser import TestRequest ?21:20
philiKONi guess. that's what google told me too :)21:20
philiKONlooks good21:20
philiKONbtw, there's always index =
ChrisWhmm, would be lovely if there were any docs for TestRequest21:21
philiKONhelp(TestRequest) works for me21:21
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ChrisWwell for me it doesn't...21:23
ChrisW"Browser request with a constructor convenient for testing"21:23
ChrisWwow. that's helpful ;-)21:23
* ChrisW was hoping for some narrative docs somewhere...21:23
philiKON__init__(self, body_instream=None, environ=None, form=None, skin=None, **kw)21:23
philiKONwhat narrative docs do you need?21:24
philiKONi thought you wanted to test your view manually?21:24
ChrisWwell, would be nice to know what those parameters actually meant ;-)21:24
philiKONso you just make one of those test request objects, stub out a POST and pass the request to the view21:24
philiKONbody_instream and environ are pretty clear i think21:24
ChrisWwould be great to see some examples, in my case especially simulating a POST where the data in in the body...21:24
philiKONform is probalby what ends up as request.form21:24
philiKONChrisW: just pass in a HTTP POST as a StringIO in body_instream ?!?21:25
ChrisWbody_instream and environ are not :-(21:25
philiKONthey're pretty much WSGIesque21:25
philiKONor even CGIesque21:25
ChrisWwhatever that means...21:25
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ChrisWanyway, I'll likely figure out TestRequest after a few more years of suffering, now how would I simulate what would, in Zope 2 land, be sometestobj.restrictedTraverse('child/@@view')?21:26
ChrisW(to similuate the url traversal part of the publication process, so I can demonstrate tha tthe view-stpaling zcml has worked)21:27
philiKONthere isn't anything like restrictedTraverse21:28
ChrisWHurm, I wonder where the traversal code in zope.publisher is?21:29
philiKONit isn't really21:29
philiKONthe publication implements traversal21:30
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ChrisWhurm... well, let me come at this from a totally different angle... your book covers integration testing from the point of view of having a zope 3 instance... what do people like me do when we're starting from a buildout for hte package we're developing?21:33
ChrisW(you persuaded me and I now finally like the "svn co, python, bin/buildout, bin/test" dance ;-) )21:34
philiKONyou mean for integration teesting?21:34
ChrisWif, as in my packages case, it needs some views and post backs to those views to work properly21:36
philiKONi would write an ftesting.zcml21:36
philiKONthat would load up as much config as necessary21:36
philiKONfor all of this work21:36
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philiKONthen i would make a layer out of that (cf zopeproject)21:36
philiKONwrite a normal test and place it on that layer21:37
philiKONby saying  suite.layer = TheLayer21:37
philiKONso the secret sauce is in ftesting.zcml, mostly21:37
ChrisWhow does ftesting.zcl get processed though?21:37
philiKONthat's the layer's job21:37
ChrisWyou say zopep[roject has an example of this?21:38
ChrisW(to the point where I could use tesrbrowser...21:38
ChrisWand doesn't require a full zope instance to run? ;-)21:38
philiKONthough admittedly zopeproject doens't assume your'e minimalistic about your requirements21:38
philiKONbut i trust you can narrow down your ftesting.zcml enough21:39
ChrisWyeah, I suspect it';ll be almost empty21:39
philiKONno, the layer only needs that one ftesting.zcml21:39
ChrisWI literally need to have one demo object to hang views off21:39
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ChrisWwhich svn does zopeproject live in?21:41 -> Sandbox/philikon21:42
ChrisWwell hidden ;-)21:42
philiKONnote that i'm not talking about what zopeproject uses but what it generates (it's a sandbox generation tool)21:42
ChrisW ?21:43
ChrisWhurm, what egg is that in?21:44 per chance?21:44
philiKONyes :(21:44
ChrisWand does it have dependencies on 10 million other eggs?21:45
philiKONprolly :(21:45
philiKONi know, "modular and flexible my ***"21:45
ChrisWhmm, I wonder if it ships with zope 2?21:45
philiKONthat i dont' know21:45
ChrisWyep, it does21:46
ChrisWwow, zope really is a fucking mess when you step back and look at it as a whole ;-)21:46
ChrisWI wonder if there's any other framework in existence where most users of the framework simultaneously use two major versions at the same time? ;-)21:46
ChrisWyay! pypi lives again ;-)21:47
* ChrisW puts in the eggs for the testrunner recipe and watches with glee ;-)21:49
ChrisWyay! it's raining eggs! hallelujah it's raining eggs! (apologies to the weather girls)21:51
ChrisWoh WOW! I get ZODB! how cooool! :-(21:52
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philiKONi suppose you could just not use zcmllalyer ;)21:53
ChrisWhey, and pagetemplates too, awesome, I need them ;-)21:53
ChrisWzcmllayer comes from, hence the rain of eggs21:53
ChrisWunless you're telling me there's a much simpler zcmllayer lurking somewhere?21:54
philiKONunfortunately not21:55
ChrisWhahaha - fuck, I even get docutils and RestrictedPython21:55
ChrisWwow, talk about the kitchen sink...21:55
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whitmois there any particular reason that pdbs don't seem to work in generations?22:41
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* whitmo is having a sanity losing moment22:41
* whitmo magically realizes the issue22:42
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